Exploring "no chill" brewing

[Seven]

Just an update to my first no-chill attempt that I previously posted about here.

It turned out great! It was a brown porter and I simply transferred the near boiling wort to a corny keg and fermented in the keg. Once fermentation was complete I racked it to a fresh keg, chilled, carbed, and drank it. Neither I nor anyone else who tried the beer had anything bad to say about it. I couldn't tell any difference between this no-chill beer and those that were rapidly chilled using an immersion chiller.

 

[H-ost]

It's so simple it's beautiful isn't it?

 

[ghpeel]

I want to jump back in with an observation I keep having. Regarding the "transfer" addition of hops (ie, hops placed in the No Chill vessel as the hot wort is poured in), I am still convinced that while Pol's original idea that they count as a 20 Minute Addition is correct in terms of the flavor provided, it seems like they do NOT count as a 20min addition for the Bitterness. I am thinking they don't provide many IBU's at all.

I've done 2-3 beers with a basic bittering addition, and then a load of hops (2-3 ounces) as the 'transfer' addition, and NONE of them seem as bitter as they should if that transfer addition counted as a 20 minute addition for IBU calculation.

My most recent beer was a Scottish ESB (Golden Promise, WLP028, a little crystal & wheat) had the following hops:

0.75oz Challenger (7.5%) as FWH
0.50oz Palisades (9.7%) as 60min
2.25oz Challenger at transfer into the No Chill cube
1.00oz Challenger at dry hop

The beer is very balanced, as a classic ESB should, but if that transfer addition counted as 20min for IBU's, then it should clock in at around 70 IBU. It most certainly does NOT taste like 70. I punched the transfer addition in as a "Post Boil" addition into Hopville's recipe calculator and got an estimated IBU amount of about 35, which tastes pretty accurate to me.

Caveat: for this beer, I let the wort cool to about 180-185F before transferring it into the Cube. However, I did an English Pale Ale some months ago with 3oz of about 5-6% AA East Kent Goldings as the transfer addition, poured into the cube at 200+F and got the same kind of result. That beer was down-right sweet.

 

[H-ost]

I don't want to find the post with his table in it but I have to say I kind of agree with you ghpeel. I'm finding that I am not getting nearly as many IBUs from cube hopping as I expected when I first started this. I get more flavor but not too much aroma either. I haven't cube hopped for a while because I don't fully understand how it will affect the beer yet.

However, for the last 4 batches roughly 2/3 of my total hops are going in FWH and I have been loving the results. FWH combined with an addition at 30-20min has been great for my less hoppy beers and for an Irish red it was FWH>45min>15min and I loved it. There isn't too much science to my method yet, maybe I willl have enough data compiled to understand my utilization better, but for now I kinda look at the recipe and try my best to decide how I should do them with the increased hop utilization we are supposed to be receiving.

 

[ghpeel]

H-ost, how much bitterness are you tasting from your FWH? I know the supposed IBU count is higher, but perceived bitterness is much lower. Would you mind posting your recipe for that Irish Red so that I can see the hop schedule?

And yeah, I also don't get any aroma with cube hopping, just flavor. Which is the reason I suspect Pol pegged it at a 20min addition, cause that's what you'd expect, I suppose.

It would be a fun experiment to do a no-boiled-hop beer. Just FWH, cube hopping and dry hopping.

 

[H-ost]

Sure thing, I will do my best to remember and post it when I get home.

 

[Bradinator]

I have been almost exclusively doing no-chill for all my batches. Unless there is some sort of external factor forcing me to chill right after brewing I always leave it overnight. Needless to say I have yet to have a bad beer from it.

I am curious what the ratio of cuber's vs. kettle chiller's are.

I just leave it overnight in the same kettle I boiled it in. I simply clean the lid and lock it down with alligator clips. It takes less then 24 hours (sometimes >16 hours during winter) to reach pitching temperatures at which point I move it into the primary and throw in the yeast.

Maybe I am missing something here, but what is the real advantage of the cube? I no chill because of sheer laziness, so moving near boiling hot wort from one container to another seems redundant if leaving it serves the same purpose.

Is it because in the hotter climates you may be required to leave it for several days before its ready for pitching?

 

[H-ost]

I like cubes for a few reasons. Like last brew I was to lazy to pitch for 3 days. I prefer to do all my cleaning at one time and if I let it sit in the BK the trub and junk would take more effort to clean than a spray with the hose. I do 10 gallon batches and sometimes only have one fermenter open so I have to leave 5 gallons in a cube for a little while. I use a spigot on my BK and that would clog after everything settled over night plus I would have to sanitize that the next day unless I wanted to use a siphon to make my transfer. I like my cubes and i don't think chilling my BK is the best option for my process.

 

[djt17]

I have been almost exclusively doing no-chill for all my batches. Unless there is some sort of external factor forcing me to chill right after brewing I always leave it overnight. Needless to say I have yet to have a bad beer from it.

I am curious what the ratio of cuber's vs. kettle chiller's are.

I just leave it overnight in the same kettle I boiled it in. I simply clean the lid and lock it down with alligator clips. It takes less then 24 hours (sometimes >16 hours during winter) to reach pitching temperatures at which point I move it into the primary and throw in the yeast.

Do you have an Aluminum or SS kettle. My 1st attempt at no-chill I tried leaving in my Aluminum kettle overnight to cool, wrapped tight with foil. The next morning it had an awful smell & band-aid taste. I fermented for 3 weeks. It has been in the keg for another 3 weeks now, it is getting worse. I don't know if it was the kettle or something else. The rest of my process was the same one that has produced very good beers. I have gone back to chilling until I can figure this out.

 

[H-ost]

What do you clean your kettle with? Maybe you just didn't rinse it out well enough before that brew day? I don't know if that would cause an increasingly bad taste though.

 

[djt17]

What do you clean your kettle with? Maybe you just didn't rinse it out well enough before that brew day? I don't know if that would cause an increasingly bad taste though.

Scrub with dish soap & rinse a few times.

 

[stamandster]

I've been using no chill for the past year. It definitely works for me! I just made a cream ale and used 1.5 pounds of honey in it. I added the honey to my bucket and racked the hot wort onto it to dissolve and mix it. The next day when I racked of the trub (of which I only had less than a pint!), the honey aroma was incredible! When I make meads, I don't boil so I keep a lot of the floral honey character. My thought was to use the heat of the wort to pasteurize the honey and seal it to trap the aroma in. So far, I'm very happy with the results. I'll know for sure in about a month.

Perhaps not only is the honey sterilized because of the hot wort but honey is an anti-septic on it's own.

 

[Bradinator]

I use an aluminum pot. I clean mine in a similar fashion, scrubbing with soap and water then rinsing the hell out of it several times. Never had a bad batch from it since I started using it from over a year ago.

 

[Rivenin]

I use an aluminum pot. I clean mine in a similar fashion, scrubbing with soap and water then rinsing the hell out of it several times. Never had a bad batch from it since I started using it from over a year ago.

That's how I was doing it before immersion chillers. I took a starsan soaked towel and tossed it over the top cuz I leave it outside overnight. No issues here!

 

[crisputer]

ok. Am I reading the no chill chart correct? If doing a 60 minute boil, I add bittering hops at 40 minutes to go? Thank you.

 

[crisputer]

Its now boiling. Add the hops now or at 40 minutes to go? Thanks again.

 

[djt17]

Its now boiling. Add the hops now or at 40 minutes to go? Thanks again.

40 min

 

[crisputer]

Awesome! That's what I did. Thanks!

 

[ghpeel]

Well I might have my first No Chill failure on my hands. I've been experimenting with letting the wort cool down in the kettle to around 190 or so before transferring into the No Chill tank, in the hopes of getting better hoppy beers. On my last batch, (a Bo Pils) I got it down to 180F before transferring, BUT i was using a new digital thermometer that seems wonky and I suspect the wort was cooler than that.

When I went to pitch yeast, the tank didn't look all sucked in like it normally does. It didn't look bulged out or anything, but it definitely wasn't slightly collapsed like it normally is. The wort smells fairly sour too

I pitched and fermented as normal, and I'm cold crashing it now, but the samples I've tasted seemed very lactic-sharp, and had a Wit beer like phenolic aroma. Again, this was a Bohemian Pilsner, so while its way to early to tell, I am not too hopeful.

So let this be a warning at best, and a lesson at worst (if the beer is ruined). Its OK to let your wort cool to 200F or so before pouring in, but don't risk it getting much cooler.

 

[crisputer]

I've been putting mine in the winpak right after flameout. It seriously sucks in and permenantly destorts the winpak but I feel better about not getting infected.

 

[eulipion2]

When I went to pitch yeast, the tank didn't look all sucked in like it normally does. It didn't look bulged out or anything, but it definitely wasn't slightly collapsed like it normally is. The wort smells fairly sour too
...

So let this be a warning at best, and a lesson at worst (if the beer is ruined). Its OK to let your wort cool to 200F or so before pouring in, but don't risk it getting much cooler.

Are you sure you had a good seal on your cube? And the sooner you transfer after flame-out the less likely you'll pick up an infection.

I've been putting mine in the winpak right after flameout. It seriously sucks in and permenantly destorts the winpak but I feel better about not getting infected.

I do the same thing: open the ball valve at flame-out, squeeze out the air (if I don't plan on fermenting in the WinPak), and seal tightly. If I want to get the dents out of the WinPak I just fill it with hot water and let it sit for a few minutes, then squeeze it back into shape.

 

[ghpeel]

Are you sure you had a good seal on your cube? And the sooner you transfer after flame-out the less likely you'll pick up an infection.

Yeah good point, it could have been that the cap wasn't screwed tight enough. I've gone back to transfering within a few minutes of flameout now, and I'll experiment with other ways of keeping hop aroma.

I just pitched yeast on a new batch yesterday that was definitely more "normal" in the tank (sides still sucked it, smelled great, etc).

 

[TampaTony]

I don't want to find the post with his table in it but I have to say I kind of agree with you ghpeel. I'm finding that I am not getting nearly as many IBUs from cube hopping as I expected when I first started this. I get more flavor but not too much aroma either. I haven't cube hopped for a while because I don't fully understand how it will affect the beer yet.

However, for the last 4 batches roughly 2/3 of my total hops are going in FWH and I have been loving the results. FWH combined with an addition at 30-20min has been great for my less hoppy beers and for an Irish red it was FWH>45min>15min and I loved it. There isn't too much science to my method yet, maybe I willl have enough data compiled to understand my utilization better, but for now I kinda look at the recipe and try my best to decide how I should do them with the increased hop utilization we are supposed to be receiving.

I have a question on FWH. Do you remove the hops before you start boiling or leave them in the entire time?

 

[bobbrews]

Leave them in.

 

[chucke]

The caps for the cubes have a rubber washer. After use mold can grow between the cap and the washer. The washer needs to be removed, then the cap and the washer need to be Oxi-cleaned.

 

[ghpeel]

The caps for the cubes have a rubber washer. After use mold can grow between the cap and the washer. The washer needs to be removed, then the cap and the washer need to be Oxi-cleaned.

Ahhh makes sense. I think I'm just going to get a new cube anyway, but I'll remember that and will clean the cap separately.

 

[manticle]

I have been almost exclusively doing no-chill for all my batches. Unless there is some sort of external factor forcing me to chill right after brewing I always leave it overnight. Needless to say I have yet to have a bad beer from it.

I am curious what the ratio of cuber's vs. kettle chiller's are.

I just leave it overnight in the same kettle I boiled it in. I simply clean the lid and lock it down with alligator clips. It takes less then 24 hours (sometimes >16 hours during winter) to reach pitching temperatures at which point I move it into the primary and throw in the yeast.

Maybe I am missing something here, but what is the real advantage of the cube? I no chill because of sheer laziness, so moving near boiling hot wort from one container to another seems redundant if leaving it serves the same purpose.

Is it because in the hotter climates you may be required to leave it for several days before its ready for pitching?

Long time after the fact but I don't visit the forum much and as a long time no chill cuber, the info may be of use to someone.

The main advantages of cubing are:

-You can completely seal the cube, giving extra protection against infection.
-You can store the cube if you are not ready to ferment. I almost always pitch the next day or day after but I know some people who have successfully fermented a properly sealed cube up to a year later. Week before last I brewed and as I went to look for my wyeast smack pack, I realised I'd used it elsewhere and forgotten. Rather than pitch an inappropriate yeast, I was able to store the wort till I could get some ordered and delivered from the HBS.
-Additional advantage for me is that I ferment directly in mine (in AU, HDPE barrel fermenters are popular) so I like to remove it from the hot break (cold break is not an issue I'm troubled about as I rarely drink beer cold enough to get chill haze).

@ghpeel: I have had a couple of infections from cubes not sealing properly and I learned that there is a great advantage to lying the freshly filled cube on its side for ten or so minutes. If there is any leakage, you should see wort drops on the ground and can re-seal.

 

[Punx]

I do that anyway so that the hot wort will kill any nasties in/around the cap.

I've been no chilling for 12 months, and will quite often have 3 or 4 cubes stacked up, waiting to be fermented as I only have 2 fermenting fridges. I've left them for months and never, ever had an infection.

 

[BlakeL]

What would be the best no chill container to use for 2.5 gallon batches? Hopefully I can find something locally so I don't have to pay shipping.

 

[chucke]

What would be the best no chill container to use for 2.5 gallon batches? Hopefully I can find something locally so I don't have to pay shipping.

I use these. http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=22692&clickid=redirect