English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[DBhomebrew]

"Many wine yeast strains are known to be "killer" yeast strains. In Saccharomyces, killer strains produce toxins that kill sensitive strains. Neutral strains do not produce toxins, nor are they killed by them [12]. Almost all ale and lager strains are sensitive to the toxins produced by killer strains [13][14]. In Saccharomyces, four toxins have been identified: K1, K2, K28, and Klus, the first three of which can only kill other strains/species of Saccharomyces. The Klus toxin has been found to kill yeast from other genra, such as Hanseniaspora spp., Kluyveromyces lactis, Candida albicans, Candida dubliniensis, Candida kefir and Candida tropicalis, and the K1, K2 and K28 killer strains of S. cerevisiae [15]. However, none of the toxins have been found to kill Brettanomyces [16]. The K1 toxin is most active between a pH of 4.6 and 4.8, while K2 and Klus are active around a pH of 4.0 to 4.3 [15]. See Killer Wine Yeast for more information on these toxins"
Packaging

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

n Got a pale/golden bitter fermenting right now, pitched ~36h ago around 2300 friday night.
Same yeast mix, 1 pack each Verdant/M36 but the krausen is not nearly as impressive now as the previous brown ale.
Wonder if it might be grist related, this one is just 2/3 GP 1/3 Vienna and a bit of wheat and inverted Demerara, whereas the brown had some brown, crystal and amber in addition to sugar and a little wheat.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Oth it's possible it's just not reached high krausen yet...

 

[DBhomebrew]

Oth it's possible it's just not reached high krausen yet...

Maybe it's infected.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Maybe it's infected.

That's not funny...
But no worries, krausen is getting hella thicc...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Folk here may be interested in CAMRA's annual auction at Burton Town Hall this weekend :
https://www.gandc.camra.org.uk/viewnode.php?id=15796

 

[HM-2]

10 KG of Chevallier and a kilo of Heritage Crystal turned up today, about 6kg earmarked for an English IPA (grist 95% Chevallier and 5% heritage crystal). Inspired by Erik I'm going to try a copitch involving Verdant and Nottingham in lieu of my usual WLP007 or S-04/London to try and push a bit more stone fruit to compliment the Jester and CF185 going in.

Might use the rest on a Strong Bitter. Something around 5.5% with a bit more crystal in the mix, Target in the boil and based on my current inventory maybe CF182/Opus in the whirlpool for loads of floral marmalade.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Folk here may be interested in CAMRA's annual auction at Burton Town Hall this weekend :
https://www.gandc.camra.org.uk/viewnode.php?id=15796

That looks to be good fun. Just curious, do the lots typically go for the minimum price or multiples thereof?

 

[Miraculix]

10 KG of Chevallier and a kilo of Heritage Crystal turned up today, about 6kg earmarked for an English IPA (grist 95% Chevallier and 5% heritage crystal). Inspired by Erik I'm going to try a copitch involving Verdant and Nottingham in lieu of my usual WLP007 or S-04/London to try and push a bit more stone fruit to compliment the Jester and CF185 going in.

Might use the rest on a Strong Bitter. Something around 5.5% with a bit more crystal in the mix, Target in the boil and based on my current inventory maybe CF182/Opus in the whirlpool for loads of floral marmalade.

Do not do this.

Heritage is acrid and bitter and needs a long time to age out. Chevallier on it's own is so nice, well rounded and flavourful that our certainly does not need any crystal additions. It provides the caramelly crystal flavour on its own.

Beers that should age 6+ months are the right place for heritage, of you ask me. Ruined a few bitters with it myself...

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Do not do this.

Heritage is acrid and bitter and needs a long time to age out. Chevallier on it's own is so nice, well rounded and flavourful that our certainly does not need any crystal additions. It provides the caramelly crystal flavour on its own.

Beers that should age 6+ months are the right place for heritage, of you ask me. Ruined a few bitters with it myself...

I used the Heritage Crystal in a brown ale at 6%, I thought it was quite nice, just a little hint of dried fruit but not any of the acrid/metallic bitterness you mentioned earlier.

 

[Miraculix]

I used the Heritage Crystal in a brown ale at 6%, I thought it was quite nice, just a little hint of dried fruit but not any of the acrid/metallic bitterness you mentioned earlier.

I used it at 10% in a best bitter and the beer was close to undrinkable. It faded with time a bit, but the time needed was too much for a low abv bitter.

.... I managed to make this mistake twice.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Maybe it's one of those malts that need to be kept at a smaller dose to not become overpowering in a lighter/meant to be drunk mild ale.
Gonna try it in a more modern porter sometime in winter, 8% Crystal 50/50 mix Heritage and the lighter T50 from Simpsons, that one will age a few months in the keg before drinking as well.
And 10% Crystal is a lot of crystal in a bitter...

 

[Miraculix]

Maybe it's one of those malts that need to be kept at a smaller dose to not become overpowering in a lighter/meant to be drunk mild ale.
Gonna try it in a more modern porter sometime in winter, 8% Crystal 50/50 mix Heritage and the lighter T50 from Simpsons, that one will age a few months in the keg before drinking as well.
And 10% Crystal is a lot of crystal in a bitter...

That might be true with the smaller dose.

Yepp, was a lot, I wanted to really see what this crystal was about so I overdid it a bit on purpose. Did not see this acrid something coming .

 

[HM-2]

And 10% Crystal is a lot of crystal in a bitter...

It's about where I pitch my crystals in a bitter as well. Usually around 10%, sometimes up to 15%. Though I generally do a mix of 2-3 with the bulk made up of something light (up to 100EBC) and a few percent of something darker (almost invariably DRC).

I used the Heritage Crystal in a brown ale at 6%, I thought it was quite nice, just a little hint of dried fruit but not any of the acrid/metallic bitterness you mentioned earlier.

This is pretty much exactly what I'm hoping to get out of it- a hint of dried fruit to compliment the Chevallier.

Given its low EBC I would have been surprised by acridines or astringency too, even at 10%. I've done up to 10% with several ~2-300EBC crystals and never had astringency from them before...

 

[Miraculix]

It's about where I pitch my crystals in a bitter as well. Usually around 10%, sometimes up to 15%. Though I generally do a mix of 2-3 with the bulk made up of something light (up to 100EBC) and a few percent of something darker (almost invariably DRC).


This is pretty much exactly what I'm hoping to get out of it- a hint of dried fruit to compliment the Chevallier.

Given its low EBC I would have been surprised by acridines or astringency too, even at 10%. I've done up to 10% with several ~2-300EBC crystals and never had astringency from them before...

Did you see it in real life? It's much darker than described.

...


.... Now I start to wonder if there might have been a mix-up at the shop I bought it from....

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Yeah, mine don't look that dark in the bag at all...

 

[HM-2]

Yeah, mine don't look that dark in the bag at all...

Same. Heritage on the left, Extra Light Crystal (100EBC on the right).

They look fairly similar to my eye.

 

[Miraculix]

Same. Heritage on the left, Extra Light Crystal (100EBC on the right).

They look fairly similar to my eye.

OK, Mine looked the same. So no mix-up.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It's about where I pitch my crystals in a bitter as well. Usually around 10%, sometimes up to 15%.

Woah, that's a lot - Fuller's use 7.2% light crystal and that's plenty to my (northern) taste.

 

[HM-2]

Woah, that's a lot - Fuller's use 7.2% light crystal and that's plenty to my (northern) taste.

Looking at my favourite two best/strong bitter recipes, it's actually up to 12% of crystal and roasted malts in one case- but the other is 13% crystal.

1. 6% Amber malt, 5% DRC, 1% Pale Chocolate
2. 5% CaraMalt, 5% Extra Light Crystal 100, 3% DRC

 

[McMullan]

I find <5% crystal works best for me. I aim to keep recipes as simple as possible. It's beer. Just brewed a batch of Strong Bitter:

Edit: I should have noted I'm prepping some WLP007 for devouring an Imperial Stout in the next few weeks. I'll probably get it to do an English IPA first.

 

[Miraculix]

Around 5% works best for me as well.

 

[DBhomebrew]

WLP-037 is now available! Just ordered some through my very excellent LHBS's group buy.

This weekend I brewed my second batch of WLP-037 bitter, repitched from the first.

That first batch has been in bottles for two weeks, drank one while I chilled this second batch. A fine, delicious beer. Lots of character. I expect next week's taster to be even more enjoyable.

As to the second ferment, going gangbusters. Winding down now, it was going strong all weekend. Harvested a full pint of barm. That's settled barm, I filled a quart jar three times with fresh krausen. The aroma invites me to fill my pint glass right out of the fermenter.

 

[storunner13]

Looking for some help on yeast selection and fermentation temps for a Bitter with Chevalier and ~14% of gravity coming from Invert sugar. Last time I used invert in a bitter with WLP007, it was an estery mess. Hoping to get a more balanced beer this time. Some thoughts were S-04 fermented cool , Verdant IPA (I like the character, but have never used it with invert), MJ Empire (M15), or WY1469. Looking for any thoughts and opinions if you have more experience with invert than I do.

 

[HM-2]

I've never had 007 do anything weird with inverts in the maybe half a dozen brews using it alongside treacle, golden syrup or both. It's still my go to for British beers above 7% which usually have between 5% and 15% sugar in them. How hot did you ferment? I can only really get esters out of 007 if I push it a bit beyond the manufacturer specs and even then I only get a bit of fruitiness.

If you're aiming for ~80% attenuation I can't recommend anything else really, but I've had very good experiences with an S-04/Lallemand London copitch.

I've got a British IPA that's 90% Chev fermenting with a Nottingham/Verdant copitch right now. Interested to see how that fares.

 

[storunner13]

WLP007 was pitched at 64F and ramped to 67F. I was pretty surprised by the esters myself. My only other thought was that the slurry was 1 generation too far. But it still has me a little gun shy with invert and English yeast.

No real attenuation target, high or low. I'd be interested to know how your IPA turns out. Is it 10% Invert?

 

[HM-2]

5% Wheat, 3% Cara Gold and 2% Heritage Crystal in this one.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Was it like Belgian ale levels of estery or more subtle than that? And have you had any actual English ales or mostly ales brewed to an Americanised understanding of what British ales are?
In the first case it may be as you said that it has been reused a bit too much, in the latter it might just be that it does what an English yeast is supposed to do.
I find I get the best result just letting the fermentation go on it's own a bit, pitch at room temp, put in the ferm chamber to quickly get it to 18c and hold there for ~24h then let it free rise to 20 and keep it there until kegging at day 10 usually.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

On another note, made a starter yesterday with Verdant/Liberty Bell for my historic inspired (London) single stout, as just using 2packs for 20L 1.065 wort was a bit on the low side...
pic taken ~2h after pitch

 

[Hanglow]

Looking for some help on yeast selection and fermentation temps for a Bitter with Chevalier and ~14% of gravity coming from Invert sugar. Last time I used invert in a bitter with WLP007, it was an estery mess. Hoping to get a more balanced beer this time. Some thoughts were S-04 fermented cool , Verdant IPA (I like the character, but have never used it with invert), MJ Empire (M15), or WY1469. Looking for any thoughts and opinions if you have more experience with invert than I do.

Glucose can increase esters. There is a mash called I think the Hermann mash specifically for wheat beers to increase the proportion of glucose in the wort to increase esters while keeping it RHG compliant. I suspect some yeasts will be affected more than others. As invert has glucose this is affecting it. So either change yeast, or you could try adding it at say 24 hours by which time the yeast should have done most of its ester production.