English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[cire]

Aside from that, talking to John Keeling a while back, he said that flaked maize was believed to help finings to work and he thought it "opened out" the flavour a bit.

Maize has a lot of ferulic acid which POF+ yeast turn to "clove", my theory is that it doesn't get used in breweries that have Beer2 ("saison")-type yeasts. Certainly maize seems to be more common down south where Beer1 yeasts are the norm.

Was working a festival at the weekend, complete with the traditional beer showers when you tap a lively cask - you don't get that with kegs!

Flaked maize was common enough up North in these parts, base malt, flaked maize and invert sugar was very common for many pale beers.

My casked beers are usually lively, particularly so when dry hopped. I find a fine metal punch to piece the shive at least gives you a sort of warning what to expect.

 

[kmarkstevens]

My two cents on Black Treacle. I found that a very small amount, say 1-2 ounces or 50-60grams for 5 gallons (20 liters), improved the ale. Mouth feel was better. It was a small improvement but I did do a couple of split batches and preferred the very light touch of a bit of black treacle.

I thought that the black treacle was a detriment to the taste if it was noticeable. For what it's worth, I first used black treacle purchased in Hong Kong in a brew in Japan in the early 1990's. Of course, I drank it but it had a "special" taste that was not to my palate.

That said, it's not part of my regular English ale brewing regime. I think I used up two cans this way. Maybe should revisit???

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

The upside of doing work at home, is that you're allowed to drink at work...

 

[monkeymath]

The upside of doing work at home, is that you're allowed to drink at work...

From personal experience, let me say that if your "work at home" is taking care of an infant, it is still frowned upon.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Luckily my wife and kids are away with her sister, and I have been charged with the task of getting a storage for all the tools and machines ready..

 

[Witherby]

I just got home from 10 days in Yorkshire and Edinburgh and after about 2 pints of Yorkshire bitters on cask the first day in Leeds I knew I had to start all over with the bitters I have been brewing. I have been to London before and attended the Boston NERAX real ale festival many times (one of the best in the US with many casks flown in from the UK every year), but the Landlord and Black Sheep bitter served through a sparkler were just completely different from what I have had before and I think I need to go back to page one of this thread and start all over again.

 

[monkeymath]

This has probably been discussed before, but... What's everyone's favourite (English) crystal malt? I know paler and darker malts aren't exactly comparable - you're trying to achieve different things, after all - so maybe let's rather talk about favourite malts within each colour range.

I hardly ever use the paler crystal malts in any beer, since imho they mostly contribute sweetness, which I usually don't seek out actively. The darker crystal malts can be a bit harsh, so I only use them sparingly, if at all.

For the mid-colour range, I have recently relied on Crisp's "Light Crystal" exclusively. I love that malt. Weyermann's CaraMunich (which is sort of the default crystal malt for us German homebrewers) tastes bland in comparison, so I gladly subbed Crisp's crystal instead (and no, I don't think it instantly makes a beer taste "English").
My latest beer, a dark mild which I've described in a previous post, featured a bit of that malt and I was surprised to find a slight smokey note in there, which I couldn't quite attribute to anything at first. But now I made some "malt teas" to compare a couple of crystal malts and, bang!, that Crisp 150 carried a touch of ham. Only now did I check Crisp's website and find the following description: "DEEP, RICH CARAMEL FLAVOUR. SUBTLE SMOKY SPICES AFTERTASTE".
Tasting the tea from Warminster's Crystal 150 next to it, it was obvious those were entirely different products: it is a commonly stated triviality that the colour alone does not convey a lot of information about the taste, but the Warminster was so much cleaner, lighter in character and sweeter, whereas the Crisp offered a somewhat earthy, more complex, deeply malty taste, that if I hadn't known, I would've thought the Warminster was much lighter in colour. Indeed, Warminster gives the following description: "Caramel and toffee notes with a golden hue".

I then had a look at the bags of grains and, again, there was a stark difference:

Not only did the Crisp seem overall darker, but there was a lot of variation in colour among the grains. Some where golden, others downright burnt. In the coffee world, such an inconsistent roast would be considered a flaw. With the malt, I'm not so sure: it might even contribute to the perceived complexity. But it could be argued that you might mix lighter and darker crystal malts to achieve the same thing, with more control and less burnt grains.

So, yeah, from now on I'll be worrying a lot more about crystal malts: if a recipe calls for a specific crystal malt which I cannot source, how can I substitute it if colour alone is not a good indicator? And what about all those recipes that just require "some 120-160 EBC crystal malt"?

Anyway, I just figured it'd be valuable to have a chat about crystal malts. Which ones do you like? And what do they taste like?

 

[schmurf]

This has probably been discussed before, but... What's everyone's favourite (English) crystal malt? I know paler and darker malts aren't exactly comparable - you're trying to achieve different things, after all - so maybe let's rather talk about favourite malts within each colour range.

I hardly ever use the paler crystal malts in any beer, since imho they mostly contribute sweetness, which I usually don't seek out actively. The darker crystal malts can be a bit harsh, so I only use them sparingly, if at all.

For the mid-colour range, I have recently relied on Crisp's "Light Crystal" exclusively. I love that malt. Weyermann's CaraMunich (which is sort of the default crystal malt for us German homebrewers) tastes bland in comparison, so I gladly subbed Crisp's crystal instead (and no, I don't think it instantly makes a beer taste "English").
My latest beer, a dark mild which I've described in a previous post, featured a bit of that malt and I was surprised to find a slight smokey note in there, which I couldn't quite attribute to anything at first. But now I made some "malt teas" to compare a couple of crystal malts and, bang!, that Crisp 150 carried a touch of ham. Only now did I check Crisp's website and find the following description: "DEEP, RICH CARAMEL FLAVOUR. SUBTLE SMOKY SPICES AFTERTASTE".
Tasting the tea from Warminster's Crystal 150 next to it, it was obvious those were entirely different products: it is a commonly stated triviality that the colour alone does not convey a lot of information about the taste, but the Warminster was so much cleaner, lighter in character and sweeter, whereas the Crisp offered a somewhat earthy, more complex, deeply malty taste, that if I hadn't known, I would've thought the Warminster was much lighter in colour. Indeed, Warminster gives the following description: "Caramel and toffee notes with a golden hue".

I then had a look at the bags of grains and, again, there was a stark difference:

Not only did the Crisp seem overall darker, but there was a lot of variation in colour among the grains. Some where golden, others downright burnt. In the coffee world, such an inconsistent roast would be considered a flaw. With the malt, I'm not so sure: it might even contribute to the perceived complexity. But it could be argued that you might mix lighter and darker crystal malts to achieve the same thing, with more control and less burnt grains.

So, yeah, from now on I'll be worrying a lot more about crystal malts: if a recipe calls for a specific crystal malt which I cannot source, how can I substitute it if colour alone is not a good indicator? And what about all those recipes that just require "some 120-160 EBC crystal malt"?

Anyway, I just figured it'd be valuable to have a chat about crystal malts. Which ones do you like? And what do they taste like?

I mostly use Simpsons malt and personally I really like their DRC (300 EBC) and their Premium English Caramalt (60 EBC). Difficult for me to put into words what they taste like, but I like them for their complexity in flavour.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Methinks the Machine House Mild is the dog's bollocks, but I've never visited the UK and have nothing to judge it against.

Just as a headsup for those who can get to Seattle towards the end of this month, Foggy Noggin in Bothell have Ron Pattinson for a tasting of AKs, followed a week later by John Keeling with a tasting of Fuller's core beers against the Foggy equivalents.

I must admit, even as a Brit we don't get to do things like that very often, I'm definitely jealous of the AK one!

https://us18.campaign-archive.com/?u=272b636bd3b53a447213ef6b5&id=9f213cea56http://foggynogginbrewing.blogspot.com/2022/06/fullers-brewery-vs-foggy-noggin-brewing.htmlhttp://www.foggynogginbrewing.com/[/USER]

 

[Hanglow]

last couple of times I've used Crisp crystal malt I've noticed it has quite the range of coloured grains in it. Definitely a mix in varying amounts for whatever colour they are aiming for.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Nothing against foggy bottom, but Ron Pattinson is also going to be at Machine House on July 25 talking about Mild. And y'all know I love the Machine House Mild. It's on their instagram (which is a rabbit hole I don't go down) but I will be calling tomorrow to phone in my reservation.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Just as a headsup for those who can get to Seattle towards the end of this month, Foggy Noggin in Bothell have Ron Pattinson for a tasting of AKs, followed a week later by John Keeling with a tasting of Fuller's core beers against the Foggy equivalents.

I must admit, even as a Brit we don't get to do things like that very often, I'm definitely jealous of the AK one!

https://us18.campaign-archive.com/?u=272b636bd3b53a447213ef6b5&id=9f213cea56http://foggynogginbrewing.blogspot.com/2022/06/fullers-brewery-vs-foggy-noggin-brewing.htmlhttp://www.foggynogginbrewing.com/[/USER]

John Keeling looks freakin awesome. I've never actually been to Foggy Bottom but it is only about a half hour drive away. Plenty of the local brew crew swear by the place.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Because I'm a sad git, this is the kind of thing that's now showing up in my timeline, the first of this year's Otter. 1.48% is pretty decent for nitrogen :

 

[McMullan]

Because I'm a sad git, this is the kind of thing that's now showing up in my timeline, the first of this year's Otter. 1.48% is pretty decent for nitrogen :
View attachment 774149

It actually looks fresh from here.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I have my ticket to RonniePat at Machine House Brewery on 25 August. It's a work night, and I have to take a call part way thru, but them's the breaks.

John Keeling is arguably even more enticing. His tix are not yet on sale. Will see. I've got to see a mountain about a route...so to speak.

 

[DuncB]

Can't make it to the USA but have made it to the five points brewery pub in Hackney. Pretty pleased with my efforts although perhaps I don't need to strive for clarity!
Baking hot here at 36 degree and damm hot in pub but beer at cellar temp to glass.
My beer the picture with a great view, not a pub view.

 

[cire]

Looks like the last pint from the barrel, and if I was served a pint in my local that wasn't clear without first being warned it was hazy, I'd send it back.

 

[schmurf]

Yes it "should" be clearer than that. Hopefully I will make it to Five Points Hackney taproom later this year and also Verdants which also should be located in Hackney.

 

[DuncB]

@schmurf
Let me know when you are going.
Brewery tours Tuesday and Thursday.
They were all good pints though.

 

[bwible]

Nothing against foggy bottom, but Ron Pattinson is also going to be at Machine House on July 25 talking about Mild. And y'all know I love the Machine House Mild. It's on their instagram (which is a rabbit hole I don't go down) but I will be calling tomorrow to phone in my reservation.

View attachment 774146

Can we hope somebody will record this?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

A little OT but on the basis that there's some USians here interested in English styles so may know something of the US attempts at same, the Great British Beer Festival (the big national CAMRA event in London, 2-6 August) has published its initial beer list - they're obviously still working on it, but I was wondering if there were any particular recommendations out of the US contingent - apparently all cask-conditioned and on handpull? Obviously there's a few I've heard of like Sam, Stone and Odells, but not most of them :
https://gbbf.realaledb.com/livebar.php

Aeronaut Brewing Co (USA)	8 Years with Dr. Nandu
Aeronaut Brewing Co (USA)	Blond Lager
Aeronaut Brewing Co (USA)	Blueberry Key Lime Sour Planet
Airline Brewing Company (USA)	Scottish Export
AleSmith Brewing Company (USA)	Be Kind, Ryewine 2021
AleSmith Brewing Company (USA)	Noble Empire 2022
Backbeat Brewing Company (USA)	Just Ask Evan
Backbeat Brewing Company (USA)	Roundabout IPA
BC Brewery (USA)	Easy Big Fella!
Bone Up Brewing Company (USA)	Extra Naked Table Beer
Boxing Bear Brewing Co (USA)	BearFest Lager
Boxing Bear Brewing Co (USA)	Strata Albu - Murky
Brato Brewhouse and Kitchen (USA)	Addison's Xxtra Bitter
Break Rock Brewing Co. (USA)	The Darkness
Canteen Brewhouse (USA)	Wicked Raven
Chapel & Main (USA)	Lost Coin IPA
Cold Harbor Brewing Company (USA)	Truell's Golden
Daydreaming Brewing Company (USA)	I Waited In Line and All I Got Was This Damn Beer
Dutchess Ales (USA)	Parallax Ale
Fifth Hammer Brewing Company (USA)	Solar Lemur
Flying Dreams Brewing Co (USA)	ConSession IPA
Franklin's Brewery (USA)	Batch 1,100
Franklin's Brewery (USA)	Jack The Giant Killer
Gritty McDuff's (USA)	Best Bitter
Heavy Seas Beer (USA)	Chocolate Volcano
Heavy Seas Beer (USA)	Double Cannon
Hidden Mountain Brewery (USA)	West Coast Pilsner
Hogshead Brewery (USA)	Gilpin Black Gold
Jack's Abby Brewing (USA)	House Lager
Jack's Abby Brewing (USA)	Shipping out of Boston
La Cumbre Brewing (USA)	Project Dank
Lamplighter Brewing Co (USA)	Celestial
Liars Bench Beer Company (USA)	Love Duck
Lone Pine Brewing Company (USA)	Portland Pale Ale
Marble Brewery (USA)	O.J. Simcoe
Mash Lab Brewing (USA)	Fog Lamp
Mast Landing Brewing Company (USA)	Coffee Marzipan Gunner's Daughter Milk Stout
Medusa Brewing Company (USA)	Hoptron
Moat Mountain Brewing Co (USA)	Flavah of the Day NEIPA
Moby Dick Brewing Co (USA)	Queen Mab Munich Helles
Nod Hill Brewery (USA)	Topstone
Odell Brewing Company (USA)	90 Shilling
Odell Brewing Company (USA)	Sippin Pretty
Palmer Brewery and Cider House (USA)	Low Card Lager
Ponderosa Brewing Co (USA)	Ripsaw Red
Rising Tide Brewing Company (USA)	Cheers To Love, Fruited Cold IPA
Samuel Adams Boston Brewery (USA)	3 Bob's Brown Ale
Scorpion Brewing LLC (USA)	Sunken Sour Porter
Second Wind Brewing Company (USA)	Agave Imperial Stout
Side By Each Brewing Company (USA)	Stay Gold Helles Lager
Sidetrack Brewing Co (USA)	Basecamp IPA
Small Change Brewing Company (USA)	Push The Sky Away
Smuttlabs (USA)	Dr Funkenstein
Steel Bender Brewyard (USA)	Nigel
Stone Brewing (USA)	Stone Pale Ale - San Diego Style
Stone Brewing (USA)	Stone Peak Conditions
Stoneface Brewing Company (USA)	DDH Full Clip
The Beer'd Brewing Company (USA)	Midnight Oil Oatmeal Stout
The Brewer's Art (USA)	Resurrection Ale
The Portsmouth Brewery (USA)	Market Street Porter
Throwback Brewery (USA)	Kolsch Arriving Too Late to Save a Thirsty Witch
Tributary Brewing Company (USA)	Lowlands American Style Brown Ale
Union Craft Brewing (USA)	Halcyon Daze
Vitamin Sea Brewing (USA)	Lost Harbor
Widowmaker Brewing (USA)	Blue Comet
Willimantic Brewing Company (USA)	Calypso Blanc India Dark Lager
Wormtown Brewery (USA)	Summer

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm an Alesmith fan. I haven't had Noble Empire but their other Imperials (i.e. Speedway Stout) are delicious.

 

[balrog]

A little OT but on the basis that there's some USians here interested in English styles so may know something of the US attempts at same, the Great British Beer Festival (the big national CAMRA event in London, 2-6 August) has published its initial beer list - they're obviously still working on it, but I was wondering if there were any particular recommendations out of the US contingent - apparently all cask-conditioned and on handpull? Obviously there's a few I've heard of like Sam, Stone and Odells, but not most of them :
https://gbbf.realaledb.com/livebar.php

Jack's Abby out of Framingham, Mass -- I'm a big fan of the house lager; they only do lagers
Wormtown is out of Worcester, Mass -- haven't had the Summer
Neither are what I'd consider cask-conditioned handpull brews.

 

[bwible]

A little OT but on the basis that there's some USians here interested in English styles so may know something of the US attempts at same, the Great British Beer Festival (the big national CAMRA event in London, 2-6 August) has published its initial beer list - they're obviously still working on it, but I was wondering if there were any particular recommendations out of the US contingent - apparently all cask-conditioned and on handpull? Obviously there's a few I've heard of like Sam, Stone and Odells, but not most of them :
https://gbbf.realaledb.com/livebar.php

Wish I could help you. I’ve never heard of most of these companies. Stone Brewing is a big one here, but the 2 they have listed are an American Pale Ale and a double ipa. Heavy Seas is the other one I know. Their 2 listings are an imperial stout and a double ipa. I’d be wanting to try the one that says 90 Schilling - that tells me at least they’re trying.

 

[Witherby]

A little OT but on the basis that there's some USians here interested in English styles so may know something of the US attempts at same, the Great British Beer Festival (the big national CAMRA event in London, 2-6 August) has published its initial beer list - they're obviously still working on it, but I was wondering if there were any particular recommendations out of the US contingent - apparently all cask-conditioned and on handpull? Obviously there's a few I've heard of like Sam, Stone and Odells, but not most of them :
https://gbbf.realaledb.com/livebar.php

I'd noticed on Instagram that NERAX (the New England Real Ale Exhibition--our annual but not since 2019 real ale festival in Boston) was working with Jack's Abby to get these casks shipped over:

Hogshead is a cask only brewery in Denver with an English head brewer and highly regarded. Tributary is owned by Tod Mott, one of the greatest American brewers who makes solid traditional styles. Dutchess is up and coming and highly regarded for their traditional styles. Jacks Abby House Lager is in constant rotation in my fridge.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Jack's Abby out of Framingham, Mass -- I'm a big fan of the house lager; they only do lagers
Wormtown is out of Worcester, Mass -- haven't had the Summer
Neither are what I'd consider cask-conditioned handpull brews.

I think you'd be surprised. I'd caveat that they obviously haven't finished tidying up the list and there's some like the big Struise beers that I'd be surprised to see on cask rather than bottle - but anything's possible, and in particular given the disruptions of the last couple of years, more weird things than usual may be popping up. After all, cask ale is too crafty normally for most brewers...

And CAMRA in general are getting a bit more flexible about having a few "interesting" lagers on keg, and keykeg-conditioned ales. So it may not be as it appears. Having said that, lagers can be terrific on cask - it was the only way before kegs were invented - and before they started being a bit more flexible CAMRA festivals went through a stage where they made a point of having at least one cask lager. So don't knock it until you've tried it.

Whereas on the face of it Wormtown Summer looks a natural fit for cask, it's almost mainstream here (as Jeff Alworth found out). Slightly hazy golden ale with new world hops on cask is practically the UK equivalent of the 5.5-6% IPA on keg these days ,at least in the more modern style of bar. Summer's a touch stronger - the UK equivalents are generally under 4.5% - and Bru-1 isn't that common here, it would more likely have an NZ/Oz hop in its place. But other than that, it doesn't look out of place at all here.

Wish I could help you. I’ve never heard of most of these companies. Stone Brewing is a big one here, but the 2 they have listed are an American Pale Ale and a double ipa. Heavy Seas is the other one I know. Their 2 listings are an imperial stout and a double ipa. I’d be wanting to try the one that says 90 Schilling - that tells me at least they’re trying.

Hmm - that's a complicated one, it can be a fine line between "loving tribute" and pastiche. Personally I'd rather try something all-American - something like Anchor Steam on cask would be awesome - in the same way that if I was taking a beer to San Diego I wouldn't take a WCIPA, but a 4% bitter in cask to be drunk by the gallon.

So in that line, Tod Mott's American Brown sounds interesting, and I note the multiple votes for Jacks Abby! (although they usually have some of the real-classic European lagers on offer as well, so that's a tough shout) Dutchess I've vaguely heard of.

 

[MikeScott]

I brewed this recipe featuring treacle early in my brewing career. It was a fine and interesting beer, but far from traditional, etc.

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-old-ale/
Northern_Brewer recommends using treacle in parkin. Haven't tried it yet, but it looks like it'd be right up my alley.

I was going to try and dig this recipe up. I brewed the exact same thing, and I really liked it. I'm in the US and was able to get the black treacle on Amazon.

 

[bwible]

I’m in Pennsylvania. Heavy Seas is almost a local brewery to me. They are in Maryland which is the next state to me. I am also just about on the PA/Maryland border. So they’re close and we get their beers. How many American Double IPAs do you see there in the UK? Might be worth checking out. I was just under the impression you were looking for American made examples of British styles.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Would LOVE to try Anchor Steam on cask. It is open fermented for a start.

In 1980 Anchor Steam was the first "real" beer I'd ever had. It's still my benchmark, and it's not a "good" beer to me until it is equivalently as good as "anchor steam". Master Brewers podcast 124 with Fritz Maytag is a really good listen: Master Brewers Podcast - Fritz Maytag

The craziest thing is that the Anchor yeast is nothing special despite claim to fame as a lager yeast fermented at ale temperatures. I was expecting some magical gold rush era sourdough that morphed into super yeast, but nah. I won't add spoilers but it's shocking where some of the yeast used by Fritz came from.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I’m in Pennsylvania. Heavy Seas is almost a local brewery to me. They are in Maryland which is the next state to me. I am also just about on the PA/Maryland border. So they’re close and we get their beers. How many American Double IPAs do you see there in the UK? Might be worth checking out. I was just under the impression you were looking for American made examples of British styles.

Well, really I'm interested in "what's different" - which can include doing the same styles with a different philosophy - but perhaps more interesting are styles that we just don't really see here (or at least not regularly), something like the Tributary US Brown Ale.

Yep, we have plenty of DIPAs, ever since Cloudwater really made their name with some of the first DIPAs in our market, every new brewery thinks they can do the same.

I've looked at some of the Untappds, going back to previous discussions, The Darkness is a mild from Break Rock in Quincy,MA rated at 3.981 and Addison's is a bitter rated at 3.86 from Brato in Brighton,MA - those ratings seem high by the standards of the styles here, I suspect they're benefiting from a bit of rarity value but who knows, they really might be better than just about any mild/bitter from the UK...