English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Northern_Brewer]

I wasn't expecting to see price increases like that until the end of the year. Aren't we struggling to get through massive surpluses caused by lockdowns?

There seem to have been a bunch of professionals suddenly making comments, I wonder if one of the maltsters (Munton?) have sent out something saying "this is what our prices will be for the new harvest". I guess a lot of places will introduce new pricing for the new harvest, but it's the sort of thing where different producers will have different policies, so it's as well to be thinking about it now.

There may have been surpluses of malt, but in general stocks of barley are somewhat low in the UK, and eg the harvest in Canada was hammered by the drought last year. Been good so far in the UK this year, but getting to the stage where we need some rain to ensure a good crop (to be fair, we have had some this week) - probably better for the winter crops like Otter than the spring ones.

 

[monkeymath]

I'm afraid you're tasting the beer .

That's why I'm going to copitch notty and verdant in my next bitter, to bring down the fruityness a bit.

I already tried leaving out the invert, didn't change the excessive. fruityness.

The fruitiness has "mellowed" a bit, which I attribute to reduced levels of acetaldehyde (which is a bit more sharply fruity ime), but damn, that yeast is one fruity SOAB! I expected my Dark Mild to be primarily malt/sugar-driven, but the peach/apricot thing is very present.
I've never actually had an authentic mild, but based on what I've read, that's not right. Still a nice beer, but not quite what I had in mind. I'm a bit surprised Verdant is often recommended for Dark Mild then.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

What temp did you ferment at? I suppose if those fruity flavour could be a bit subdued and subtle they would go pretty well in a Mild.
I get a little dried apricot thing in Timothy Taylor's ales, wich I assume are from their yeast, and it seems to work pretty well for them...

 

[Miraculix]

What temp did you ferment at? I suppose if those fruity flavour could be a bit subdued and subtle they would go pretty well in a Mild.
I get a little dried apricot thing in Timothy Taylor's ales, wich I assume are from their yeast, and it seems to work pretty well for them...

I've fermented it at the upper end of the range, at the lower end.... Always a fruit bomb. My mix of notti and verdant seemed promising when tasting the sample. Actually, it tasted not much fruity at all so maybe notti took over. Although the beer was as green as it gets and my palate was completely off that day due to strange diet requirements the week before.

It's carbonating, I'll crack a bottle tomorrow and let your guys know.

 

[monkeymath]

What temp did you ferment at? I suppose if those fruity flavour could be a bit subdued and subtle they would go pretty well in a Mild.
I get a little dried apricot thing in Timothy Taylor's ales, wich I assume are from their yeast, and it seems to work pretty well for them...

I fermented at 19 Celsius, which is really not pushing for esters (given that the manufacturer recommends 18 to 23 Celsius). The addition of 10% simple sugars probably increased the amount of esters produced, but eh (@Miraculix reported omitting the sugar did not help in his case).

Maybe I'll re-brew the recipe with WY1469, which I really liked - also fruity, but not as overwhelmingly so, and it still leaves a "beer-y" finish.

 

[McMullan]

I'm probably going to pitch Verdant at 17°C or even 16°C and hold it there until it's been fermenting at a good rate for 24 hours.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I noticed that Viking Malt in the US raised prices by about $1/pound. They used to be cheaper than the pack, and now in the pack.

 

[cire]

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[Erik the Anglophile]

The Best Bitter, for some reason I get absolutely no head from the kegs but it is carbed up nicely, it has been sitting at 14psi , 13 after some pressure loss over the check valves, for 5 days after my initial 10psi/1.7 vol priming, but it should have reached about 2 vols by now. Just enough to get it a little lively but not fizzy imo.
The haze is probably because I forgot the protafloc...
Taste is nice, but because of my faulty thermometer and resulting considerably higher than intended mash temps, I have had some issues with the attenuation, both this and the Brown Ale would prefferably be just a little drier.
Thinking about completely dropping the 240 ebc Crystal, and just go with MO, 4% each of Amber and wheat, and 10% #2.
Next bitter will be a loosely inspired by Black Sheep Ale one, using 10% #2, 6% 50/50 mix of 150/240 ebc Crystal and a little wheat.
These vill likely become my Bitter base recipes, with some changes in the hopping for variation.

 

[Miraculix]

The Best Bitter, for some reason I get absolutely no head from the kegs but it is carbed up nicely, it has been sitting at 14psi , 13 after some pressure loss over the check valves, for 5 days after my initial 10psi/1.7 vol priming, but it should have reached about 2 vols by now. Just enough to get it a little lively but not fizzy imo.
The haze is probably because I forgot the protafloc...
Taste is nice, but because of my faulty thermometer and resulting considerably higher than intended mash temps, I have had some issues with the attenuation, both this and the Brown Ale would prefferably be just a little drier.
Thinking about completely dropping the 240 ebc Crystal, and just go with MO, 4% each of Amber and wheat, and 10% #2.
Next bitter will be a loosely inspired by Black Sheep Ale one, using 10% #2, 6% 50/50 mix of 150/240 ebc Crystal and a little wheat.
These vill likely become my Bitter base recipes, with some changes in the hopping for variation.

Wait two to four weeks longer, then the head will probably start to appear. Instead of dropping the crystal completely, replace ten percent of the base malt with invert sugar to dry it out a bit. This way you get more flavour and lower fg.

 

[cire]

Crystal doesn't help heads at the best of times. I agree that time is necessary to get a good head. 29 days since my last brew, and 15 days since it had very little head. This was it a few minutes ago, though naturally carbonated.

It won't stay like this forever, or all that long, but it's ready to be drank.

This was the recipe, no crystal, but 12% invert. The reason for 3 base malts was an attempt to stretch the pale malt stock before the next bulk order.

Give it time, heading qualities are not only wholly dependent upon carbonation.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

It is naturally carbed, primed in the keg with enough sugar to reach 1.7 vol and then sat in the keg for 2 weeks, and almost a week in the fridge.
I used 8% light muscovado in this, but next time will use 10% #2 and no crystal but keep the Amber, to get more of a Landlord-ish taste hopefully.
The hopstand worked really well though, it has a subtle citrusy hoppy tone to it from the Styrian Goldings.

 

[monkeymath]

It is naturally carbed, primed in the keg with enough sugar to reach 1.7 vol and then sat in the keg for 2 weeks, and almost a week in the fridge.
I used 8% light muscovado in this, but next time will use 10% #2 and no crystal but keep the Amber, to get more of a Landlord-ish taste hopefully.
The hopstand worked really well though, it has a subtle citrusy hoppy tone to it from the Styrian Goldings.

I have a small bag of amber malt in my basement that I haven't touched since I first tasted the raw grains. I find it tastes downright disgusting and can't imagine a beer where I'd want even just a little of that flavour.

Do you happen to like the taste of the raw grain by itself? Or does it just come through entirely differently in a finished beer?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I find it gives a subtle toasted note to the finished beer, the grain itself does not taste that nice I agree.

 

[cire]

Amber malt varies vastly from different maltsters. This afternoon had just measured 2% to go into my next brew. Never bothered tasting mine, so much changes in the mash, boil and during fermentation; even then an ale tastes nothing like it does after it has conditioned and been vented.

@Erik the Anglophile , what temperature in the fridge and the beer when serving?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I keep the fridge and the beer at 11c
@cire

 

[cire]

Perfect.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I have a small bag of amber malt in my basement that I haven't touched since I first tasted the raw grains. I find it tastes downright disgusting and can't imagine a beer where I'd want even just a little of that flavour.

If amber isn't your cup of tea, then there are plenty of "similar enough" grains out there. For me, Brown malt tastes like ass, so I don't use it.

Brew god Orfy posted these words of wisdom years ago: You could use Amber, Brown, Victory, Biscuit, Special Roast, Pale Chocolate - amongst others - to get you a nutty character (in moderate amounts 0.25-0.5 lb) and moderate roast character (in moderate-heavy amounts 0.75 lb). Victory and Biscuit might not get you to the "roasted" end of the spectrum.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Okey dokey, I will throw out Tony's Pre-1980 Boddington's Clone. It's pretty dang tasty. Maybe not my favorite Bitter but definitely in regular rotation. And I have to say, I like the widget can Boddington's and have drunk a fair amount of that ever since HOng Kong circa 1994. Tony's is much better than the widget Boddingtons but tastes in the family to me. Tony's has a nice hop bite that leaves one hankering for more, and maybe a thirst in the back of the throat that demands more to be satiated. I used WLP038 Manchester yeast, which was gifted to me by someone on these boards clearing out his yeast bank (much obliged and I'm buying if you ever come to Seattle!). Haven't done a split batch with say Notty or WLP026, but will try that at some point to see if the yeast is critical or not. Like Boddy's, I used a mix of English hops that were handy (BX, EKG, First Gold, Fuggles).

I've done a couple of batches and my latest is not crystal clear but here ya go:

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm wrapping up a keg of Brown Ale. Primarily Maris Otter, with some light crystal, victory (biscuit-ish), special roast*, brown and pale chcolate malts. Fuggles and EKG hops and 1028 "London Ale"yeast. Fairly low mineral and TDS tap water without too many additions, something like 85 Ca, 120Cl and 90 SO4 per the calculator and measured pH at room temp 5.34, lower than intended but maybe not terrible.

I'm not really enjoying it. It's got a bite to it that's not from the hops or yeast, in my experience with those anyhow. I'm not thinking it's the the water as it's what I've used several times in the past. My changes since the last brew were subbing some Victory with Special Roast (from 7.5% Victory, to 5% victory and 2.5% special roast), and the yeast change to 1028.

Special roast might not be easily found in the UK or even desired for use, so I know not everyone here might be able to comment on it. I've seen a "sourdough tang" connected to it. Also have seen later that the 1028 can be considered "minerally". I think it's the latter that I'm picking up on. I'm here wondering if anyone's experimented with these and what they thought of them? I think I ended up with a Newcastle type beer, with an amplified tang. I was hoping more for Samuel Smith's.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm wrapping up a keg of Brown Ale. Primarily Maris Otter, with some light crystal, victory (biscuit-ish), special roast*, brown and pale chcolate malts. Fuggles and EKG hops and 1028 "London Ale"yeast. Fairly low mineral and TDS tap water without too many additions, something like 85 Ca, 120Cl and 90 SO4 per the calculator and measured pH at room temp 5.34, lower than intended but maybe not terrible.

I'm not really enjoying it. It's got a bite to it that's not from the hops or yeast, in my experience with those anyhow. I'm not thinking it's the the water as it's what I've used several times in the past. My changes since the last brew were subbing some Victory with Special Roast (from 7.5% Victory, to 5% victory and 2.5% special roast), and the yeast change to 1028.

Special roast might not be easily found in the UK or even desired for use, so I know not everyone here might be able to comment on it. I've seen a "sourdough tang" connected to it. Also have seen later that the 1028 can be considered "minerally". I think it's the latter that I'm picking up on. I'm here wondering if anyone's experimented with these and what they thought of them? I think I ended up with a Newcastle type beer, with an amplified tang. I was hoping more for Samuel Smith's.

Bite in terms of unpleasant bitterness? I've had that from brown and amber malt. Could be that the special roast does the same. I think Sam Smith is using small doses of chocolate malt.

 

[tracer bullet]

Bite in terms of unpleasant bitterness? I've had that from brown and amber malt. Could be that the special roast does the same. I think Sam Smith is using small doses of chocolate malt.

I don't think so, sorry I didn't explain that well. Bite isn't quite the right word. Tang isn't quite the right word. Perhaps "minerally" is? But it's not quite a flavor that you'd think you'd get if you were sucking on metal, but it's more like that than anythign else I can come up with. I should mention the beer is approaching 2 months old, and hasn't really changed. This flavor has perhaps lessened somewhat, but not by much. It's not a particularly bad beer, or messed up, it's just - certainly not what I was hoping for.

I think the next time I brew the recipe I'll drop both of those ingredients. It's not the best way to discover the culprit but I don't suppose either is a big loss. I might try the 1469 Yorkshire again, or even head a slightly different direction and use an American ale type yeast (1056 or S-05).

 

[Miraculix]

I don't think so, sorry I didn't explain that well. Bite isn't quite the right word. Tang isn't quite the right word. Perhaps "minerally" is? But it's not quite a flavor that you'd think you'd get if you were sucking on metal, but it's more like that than anythign else I can come up with. I should mention the beer is approaching 2 months old, and hasn't really changed. This flavor has perhaps lessened somewhat, but not by much. It's not a particularly bad beer, or messed up, it's just - certainly not what I was hoping for.

I think the next time I brew the recipe I'll drop both of those ingredients. It's not the best way to discover the culprit but I don't suppose either is a big loss. I might try the 1469 Yorkshire again, or even head a slightly different direction and use an American ale type yeast (1056 or S-05).

Sounds like a yeast thing to me, but it's kind of a shot into the dark tbh.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Sounds fairly similair to my latest iteration of my northern brown ale.
MO, Simpson DRC, 150 ebc Crystal, a little Brown malt and a dash of pale chocolate. Light muscovado in the boil.
Next time I will go back to dark-ish 240 ebc Crystal instead of DRC since it gave a little burnt sugar notes I don't really enjoy, I think most really dark crystal for me gives too much burnt sugar flavour and I don't really enjoy that. Oh, and gonna use actual inverted sugar, but not the caramellised variety.
I agree with Miraculix, brown malt don't give that dry bitter-ish tang unless used in larger quantities, and then it usually smoothes out with a little aging. In smaller amounts I feel it just adds a little toasted nuts like notes.
Could be that it is just a characteristic of that yeast that you don't like.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Mmmm, beer.

 

[McMullan]

Mmmm, beer.

I quite like Ridgeway's beers. And you can harvest their yeast strain from their bottled beers, too.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I don't think the yeast will be not contaminated during the journey home sadly.
Tbh I prefer the Northern style bitters, this is a wee bit too full for My tastes.
A fine pint though apart from that.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And now some more jealousy provocation...

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And yes, they do have a cask marque and real ale on tap.

 

[WesBrew]

Finally made an invert. The flavor was surprising. definitely not caramel. Tasty orange marmalade i was shooting for a 2 .maybe a little dark? Looking to use some in an ordinary bitter
-100% Sugar in the raw to 240f

.

 

[monkeymath]

So I called Verdant a "fruity SOAB" in a previous post... and I may have to revise that. The fruitiness was very prominent early on - I tasted the beer after only a week in the bottle -, but it actually subsided significantly with time. Now, a month after bottling, the dominant impression is much more in line with what I expected: brown sugar, chocolate, caramel, toast. The peach is still there, and it's still apparent, but it's more integrated with the beer's overall character now.

The recipe was based on Ron Pattinson's recipe English Ales - What's your favorite recipe? for a 1955 Lee's Best Mild. I made a couple of simplifications and substitutions, I hope it's not too dreadful an abomination.
As I've mentioned previously, I've never actually had a Mild, much less one from 1955, so I can't say whether it's anywhere close to what it "should" be - but I like it. The head retention is, much to my surprise, pretty good. Colour is brown rather than black, but I think that should be acceptable? Anyway, here's what I made.

OG 1.037
FG 1.008

52% Pale Malt
26% Mild Ale Malt (Warminster)
10% homemade invert no2-ish
6% Low Coloured Chocolate (Warminster, 415 EBC)
4% Crystal (Crisp, 150 EBC)
2% Brown Malt (Warminster)

Single bittering addition of Bramling Cross at 60 minutes for 20 IBUs. Fermented with LalBrew Verdant IPA at 19 deg Celsius.

The flavour will probably vary quite a bit with the simple sugar used. I could imagine upping the roast character a bit, but here I wanted to make it clearly distinct from an upcoming oatmeal stout.

 

[monkeymath]

Oh and one more thing:

I know bottled beers are not held in the highest regard in England, but if for reasons unforseen - idk, like a global pandemic, but yeah, that's purely hypothetical of course - and Englishman finds himself unable to visit a pub, but still with a thirst for a pint... Is there a "proper" way to pour from a bottle?

What I currently do is
- take the bottle out of the fridge about 30-45mins (those 0.5l bottles could even go a little longer, I think) before consumption to let the beer warm up a bit
- pour the beer straight down the middle to force CO2 out, building a nice head and taking some fizz out of the beer underneath

(I had carbonated my beer to about 3.8 g/l or 1.9 vols of CO2, so I felt some getting some of that out during the pour was a good idea. If you start with less carbonation, that may not be necessary. But this way, you get a nice fluffy head on top, which I enjoy, even if it may be stylistically inappropriate.)

 

[McMullan]

Nothing wrong with bottled beers. I find removing the bottle top then pouring straight into a suitable glass does the trick.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Colour is brown rather than black, but I think that should be acceptable?

What people think of as classic mild should be more very dark brown rather than black. And as usual, the colour is usually assisted with some caramel rather than black malt etc.

The flavour will probably vary quite a bit with the simple sugar used. I could imagine upping the roast character a bit, but here I wanted to make it clearly distinct from an upcoming oatmeal stout.

Yeah, save the roastiness for the stouts, it's not really what mild is about (although some do go in that direction). Classic Midlands milds are more about the flavours you get from the sugar, and maybe a bit of chocolate but not too dominant.

Oh and one more thing:

I know bottled beers are not held in the highest regard in England, but if for reasons unforseen - idk, like a global pandemic, but yeah, that's purely hypothetical of course - and Englishman finds himself unable to visit a pub, but still with a thirst for a pint... Is there a "proper" way to pour from a bottle?

What I currently do is
- take the bottle out of the fridge about 30-45mins (those 0.5l bottles could even go a little longer, I think) before consumption to let the beer warm up a bit
- pour the beer straight down the middle to force CO2 out, building a nice head and taking some fizz out of the beer underneath

(I had carbonated my beer to about 3.8 g/l or 1.9 vols of CO2, so I felt some getting some of that out during the pour was a good idea. If you start with less carbonation, that may not be necessary. But this way, you get a nice fluffy head on top, which I enjoy, even if it may be stylistically inappropriate.)

I'm not sure bottles are held in that much disregard, other than our drinking culture being far more geared to pubs than most other countries, which means draught (until recently we were still over 50% of beer being draught, whereas eg Germany was at 20-25%).

Since I'm never going to get a proper northern sparkled head from a bottle, I tend towards a more southern /gravity pour with bottles, treating it pretty much as I would from a keg/gravity - tilt, pour against the side, go vertical towards the end for a bit of head. For me you've got rather too much head in the picture.

Vaguely staying on topic, Jeff Alworth recently visited Machine House in Seattle which seems to have the most famous mild in the US, it's certainly interesting for a Brit to read about it. And in other news, I'll hopefully be going to Seattle at some point this year, viruses and Other Stuff permitting, so I'll be able to try for myself.

https://www.beervanablog.com/beerva...range#block-yui_3_17_2_1_1654796263236_117929He followed a girl to Seattle, and the rest unfolded as those things do. He’s a cheerful, self-effacing guy (“Well, I’m English”), and he downplays his skills as a brewer. “I know how to make cask ale,” he told me almost apologetically. Brits, raised on the stuff, seem to think anyone could make a delicious, faultless 4% ale. They’re wrong. These beers are hard, and one of the reason Machine House has become a beacon for cask is because Bill’s are really good.

The 7-barrel, second-hand kit is hinky, but it works for infusion-mashing. He uses (predominantly) Golden Promise malt and English hops, doesn’t tinker with Seattle’s soft water much, chooses one of two English yeast strains (Timothy Taylor and Fuller’s) depending on the beer he wants to make, and employs open fermenters. Especially thanks to Covid, he sells beer in package (including popular $40 5-liter pouches), but these are ales meant to be enjoyed on cask.

We tasted through several of them, which was a joy. My experience has been limited largely to bottles, so it was a pleasure long in coming to taste them as they were meant to be served. I need to reserve a few hours (and a nearby hotel room) to really enjoy them by the pint, but even in halves I could appreciate their moreishness. Fans of mild might never make it to any of his other beers. “Tons of chocolate malt. That’s how we get loads of character in a low-ABV beer.” It’s full-bodied and even fuller-flavored, a wee titan of character. In addition, he has a rotating cast of bitters (regular and best, though Americans don’t know the difference), as well as specialties. Everything I tried was great.

You'd never get away with pricing as unequal as $8/$5 for pint/half in the UK though - I've known people getting twitchy when it's £0.05 out!!

 

[Derp]

Vaguely staying on topic, Jeff Alworth recently visited Machine House in Seattle which seems to have the most famous mild in the US, it's certainly interesting for a Brit to read about it. And in other news, I'll hopefully be going to Seattle at some point this year, viruses and Other Stuff permitting, so I'll be able to try for myself.

I'll be in Seattle next month and I'm looking forward to my traditional visit to Machine House. They never disappoint.

The comments mentioned Cloudburst, and it's another favorite of mine. It's only a 5-minute walk from my son's house.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Northern_Brewer @Derp If either of you come to Seattle and don't let me shout you a mild from Machine House, then I'm going to be seriously cheesed off.

Methinks the Machine House Mild is the dog's bollocks, but I've never visited the UK and have nothing to judge it against. Would welcome a very experienced mild drinker from the home country's view.

 

[Derp]

@Northern_Brewer @Derp If either of you come to Seattle and don't let me shout you a mild from Machine House, then I'm going to be seriously cheesed off.

I think I'll be there sometime after noon on July 16th. I'll be the 59-year-old guy fresh from his graduation ceremony, but I'll probably ditch the cap and gown. Let's stay in touch and meet for a pint or two, if possible.

 

[DuncB]

@Derp
Try the personal message feature and exchange phone numbers / email with @kmarkstevens. Could be a lot of hip 59yo in the machine house waiting for their mild.
I can see it now, " are you @Derp? "
Like a scene from Spartacus hundreds stand up.

 

[balrog]

...and suddenly all flights to Seattle on July 16 booked up...

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Derp
Try the personal message feature and exchange phone numbers / email with @kmarkstevens. Could be a lot of hip 59yo in the machine house waiting for their mild.
I can see it now, " are you @Derp? "
Like a scene from Spartacus hundreds stand up.

haha, I'll be the 61 year old bald guy.