English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[monkeymath]

So I called Verdant a "fruity SOAB" in a previous post... and I may have to revise that. The fruitiness was very prominent early on - I tasted the beer after only a week in the bottle -, but it actually subsided significantly with time. Now, a month after bottling, the dominant impression is much more in line with what I expected: brown sugar, chocolate, caramel, toast. The peach is still there, and it's still apparent, but it's more integrated with the beer's overall character now.

The recipe was based on Ron Pattinson's recipe English Ales - What's your favorite recipe? for a 1955 Lee's Best Mild. I made a couple of simplifications and substitutions, I hope it's not too dreadful an abomination.
As I've mentioned previously, I've never actually had a Mild, much less one from 1955, so I can't say whether it's anywhere close to what it "should" be - but I like it. The head retention is, much to my surprise, pretty good. Colour is brown rather than black, but I think that should be acceptable? Anyway, here's what I made.

OG 1.037
FG 1.008

52% Pale Malt
26% Mild Ale Malt (Warminster)
10% homemade invert no2-ish
6% Low Coloured Chocolate (Warminster, 415 EBC)
4% Crystal (Crisp, 150 EBC)
2% Brown Malt (Warminster)

Single bittering addition of Bramling Cross at 60 minutes for 20 IBUs. Fermented with LalBrew Verdant IPA at 19 deg Celsius.

The flavour will probably vary quite a bit with the simple sugar used. I could imagine upping the roast character a bit, but here I wanted to make it clearly distinct from an upcoming oatmeal stout.

 

[monkeymath]

Oh and one more thing:

I know bottled beers are not held in the highest regard in England, but if for reasons unforseen - idk, like a global pandemic, but yeah, that's purely hypothetical of course - and Englishman finds himself unable to visit a pub, but still with a thirst for a pint... Is there a "proper" way to pour from a bottle?

What I currently do is
- take the bottle out of the fridge about 30-45mins (those 0.5l bottles could even go a little longer, I think) before consumption to let the beer warm up a bit
- pour the beer straight down the middle to force CO2 out, building a nice head and taking some fizz out of the beer underneath

(I had carbonated my beer to about 3.8 g/l or 1.9 vols of CO2, so I felt some getting some of that out during the pour was a good idea. If you start with less carbonation, that may not be necessary. But this way, you get a nice fluffy head on top, which I enjoy, even if it may be stylistically inappropriate.)

 

[McMullan]

Nothing wrong with bottled beers. I find removing the bottle top then pouring straight into a suitable glass does the trick.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Colour is brown rather than black, but I think that should be acceptable?

What people think of as classic mild should be more very dark brown rather than black. And as usual, the colour is usually assisted with some caramel rather than black malt etc.

The flavour will probably vary quite a bit with the simple sugar used. I could imagine upping the roast character a bit, but here I wanted to make it clearly distinct from an upcoming oatmeal stout.

Yeah, save the roastiness for the stouts, it's not really what mild is about (although some do go in that direction). Classic Midlands milds are more about the flavours you get from the sugar, and maybe a bit of chocolate but not too dominant.

Oh and one more thing:

I know bottled beers are not held in the highest regard in England, but if for reasons unforseen - idk, like a global pandemic, but yeah, that's purely hypothetical of course - and Englishman finds himself unable to visit a pub, but still with a thirst for a pint... Is there a "proper" way to pour from a bottle?

What I currently do is
- take the bottle out of the fridge about 30-45mins (those 0.5l bottles could even go a little longer, I think) before consumption to let the beer warm up a bit
- pour the beer straight down the middle to force CO2 out, building a nice head and taking some fizz out of the beer underneath

(I had carbonated my beer to about 3.8 g/l or 1.9 vols of CO2, so I felt some getting some of that out during the pour was a good idea. If you start with less carbonation, that may not be necessary. But this way, you get a nice fluffy head on top, which I enjoy, even if it may be stylistically inappropriate.)

I'm not sure bottles are held in that much disregard, other than our drinking culture being far more geared to pubs than most other countries, which means draught (until recently we were still over 50% of beer being draught, whereas eg Germany was at 20-25%).

Since I'm never going to get a proper northern sparkled head from a bottle, I tend towards a more southern /gravity pour with bottles, treating it pretty much as I would from a keg/gravity - tilt, pour against the side, go vertical towards the end for a bit of head. For me you've got rather too much head in the picture.

Vaguely staying on topic, Jeff Alworth recently visited Machine House in Seattle which seems to have the most famous mild in the US, it's certainly interesting for a Brit to read about it. And in other news, I'll hopefully be going to Seattle at some point this year, viruses and Other Stuff permitting, so I'll be able to try for myself.

https://www.beervanablog.com/beerva...range#block-yui_3_17_2_1_1654796263236_117929He followed a girl to Seattle, and the rest unfolded as those things do. He’s a cheerful, self-effacing guy (“Well, I’m English”), and he downplays his skills as a brewer. “I know how to make cask ale,” he told me almost apologetically. Brits, raised on the stuff, seem to think anyone could make a delicious, faultless 4% ale. They’re wrong. These beers are hard, and one of the reason Machine House has become a beacon for cask is because Bill’s are really good.

The 7-barrel, second-hand kit is hinky, but it works for infusion-mashing. He uses (predominantly) Golden Promise malt and English hops, doesn’t tinker with Seattle’s soft water much, chooses one of two English yeast strains (Timothy Taylor and Fuller’s) depending on the beer he wants to make, and employs open fermenters. Especially thanks to Covid, he sells beer in package (including popular $40 5-liter pouches), but these are ales meant to be enjoyed on cask.

We tasted through several of them, which was a joy. My experience has been limited largely to bottles, so it was a pleasure long in coming to taste them as they were meant to be served. I need to reserve a few hours (and a nearby hotel room) to really enjoy them by the pint, but even in halves I could appreciate their moreishness. Fans of mild might never make it to any of his other beers. “Tons of chocolate malt. That’s how we get loads of character in a low-ABV beer.” It’s full-bodied and even fuller-flavored, a wee titan of character. In addition, he has a rotating cast of bitters (regular and best, though Americans don’t know the difference), as well as specialties. Everything I tried was great.

You'd never get away with pricing as unequal as $8/$5 for pint/half in the UK though - I've known people getting twitchy when it's £0.05 out!!

 

[Derp]

Vaguely staying on topic, Jeff Alworth recently visited Machine House in Seattle which seems to have the most famous mild in the US, it's certainly interesting for a Brit to read about it. And in other news, I'll hopefully be going to Seattle at some point this year, viruses and Other Stuff permitting, so I'll be able to try for myself.

I'll be in Seattle next month and I'm looking forward to my traditional visit to Machine House. They never disappoint.

The comments mentioned Cloudburst, and it's another favorite of mine. It's only a 5-minute walk from my son's house.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Northern_Brewer @Derp If either of you come to Seattle and don't let me shout you a mild from Machine House, then I'm going to be seriously cheesed off.

Methinks the Machine House Mild is the dog's bollocks, but I've never visited the UK and have nothing to judge it against. Would welcome a very experienced mild drinker from the home country's view.

 

[Derp]

@Northern_Brewer @Derp If either of you come to Seattle and don't let me shout you a mild from Machine House, then I'm going to be seriously cheesed off.

I think I'll be there sometime after noon on July 16th. I'll be the 59-year-old guy fresh from his graduation ceremony, but I'll probably ditch the cap and gown. Let's stay in touch and meet for a pint or two, if possible.

 

[DuncB]

@Derp
Try the personal message feature and exchange phone numbers / email with @kmarkstevens. Could be a lot of hip 59yo in the machine house waiting for their mild.
I can see it now, " are you @Derp? "
Like a scene from Spartacus hundreds stand up.

 

[balrog]

...and suddenly all flights to Seattle on July 16 booked up...

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Derp
Try the personal message feature and exchange phone numbers / email with @kmarkstevens. Could be a lot of hip 59yo in the machine house waiting for their mild.
I can see it now, " are you @Derp? "
Like a scene from Spartacus hundreds stand up.

haha, I'll be the 61 year old bald guy.

 

[warx]

Machine House has great Mild T-shirts (and others).

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Speaking of Milds, I have one (naturally) carbing up in the keg atm, will go in the kegerator for a bit of conditioning this friday and likely take a first pint sometime late next week.
But from just the taste from my gravity samples and sample when kegging, I think I need to revise my recipe a little.
I think something like MO as base
10% homemade invert #3
6% Crystal 50)50 mix of 150/240 ebc
5 % Crisp Amber
3% UK chocolate malt
OG 1.036

90 min boil, 60 min addition for 20 IBU and about 0.7g/L of Fuggle thrown in just before I start chilling.
Looking for a northern style mild like black cat, theakston and the like, a little subtle caramel/toffee, not too sweet and a little light roast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

@Northern_Brewer @Derp If either of you come to Seattle and don't let me shout you a mild from Machine House, then I'm going to be seriously cheesed off.

Methinks the Machine House Mild is the dog's bollocks, but I've never visited the UK and have nothing to judge it against. Would welcome a very experienced mild drinker from the home country's view.

That's kind, although I'm far from a mild expert, I'm from the other side of the dark/pale border that roughly runs between the Mersey and Trent watersheds. I've had a few at festivals but seldom in pubs. Still, Machine House looks fun, it's impressive if they can keep all those lines on with a sensible turnover.

In other news, UK hop growers are warning of price rises :
https://www.beerguild.co.uk/news/british-hop-inflation-2022/
Between 2016-2021 the aggregate wage rate increase was 37%, although for most growers the figure was higher, as both labour availability and quality have declined as a consequence of the UK’s departure from the European Union. For 2022 growers are faced with:

• a minimum 15% increase in wage costs
• approaching 100% increase in fuel costs
• significant increases in the cost of fertilisers, spray chemicals, string and other inputs

Maltsters will be facing similar problems. Energy costs are even more of a problem on the Continent.

 

[McMullan]

That's kind, although I'm far from a mild expert, I'm from the other side of the dark/pale border that roughly runs between the Mersey and Trent watersheds. I've had a few at festivals but seldom in pubs. Still, Machine House looks fun, it's impressive if they can keep all those lines on with a sensible turnover.

In other news, UK hop growers are warning of price rises :
https://www.beerguild.co.uk/news/british-hop-inflation-2022/
Between 2016-2021 the aggregate wage rate increase was 37%, although for most growers the figure was higher, as both labour availability and quality have declined as a consequence of the UK’s departure from the European Union. For 2022 growers are faced with:

• a minimum 15% increase in wage costs
• approaching 100% increase in fuel costs
• significant increases in the cost of fertilisers, spray chemicals, string and other inputs

Maltsters will be facing similar problems. Energy costs are even more of a problem on the Continent.

If costs are going up across the board, for everyone, give everyone a decent pay rise to cover it. Simple. Economics isn't that complicated. Unless shareholder value and greed are driving up costs as well.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

If costs are going up across the board, for everyone, give everyone a decent pay rise to cover it. Simple. Economics isn't that complicated. Unless shareholder value and greed are driving up costs as well.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Between 2016-2021 the aggregate wage rate increase was 37%, although for most growers the figure was higher, as both labour availability and quality have declined as a consequence of the UK’s departure from the European Union.

If costs are going up across the board, for everyone, give everyone a decent pay rise to cover it. Simple. Economics isn't that complicated. Unless shareholder value and greed are driving up costs as well.

This isn't really the place for this discussion as it gets complicated once you start talking about net pay rates and effective inflation for those around min wage, but it's worth noting that March RPI was 15.4% between 2016-21 and CPI was about 10% in the same timeframe.

The argument the hopgrowers are making is that they did their bit during the pandemic by not enforcing contracts that could have forced their customers to take twice the hops they did, now they're asking their customers to not enforce fixed-price contracts in the face of unprecendented rises in energy costs in particular, which are non-trivial if you're drying hops.

I already know of one farmer who has got out of hops, and they won't be the last.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

But what do you guys think about the dark mild grain bill? Solving world's issues aside.

 

[McMullan]

The small farms always suffer disproportionately. The big farms will ride it out, sit back and enjoy watching competition being purged from the market. Only way to stop that is to give everyone a pay rise so they can afford to pay the small guys more.

 

[McMullan]

But what do you guys think about the dark mild grain bill? Solving world's issues aside.

I'd just use crystal 150 and not bother with the 240, although you're not adding much. Not sure about the amber. Maybe reserve the amber for a more robust ale or use less. For me, Mild recipes are better the simpler they are, grist wise. This holds true for most styles, imo. I'd try to use no more than 3 types of grain. If a Mild is a mild (not mature) ale consumed fresh, within a week or two of being brewed, then a simple recipe is going to work better. I've followed some overly complicated 'Mild' recipes in the past and they took several weeks to reach a drinkable stage.

 

[monkeymath]

I'd just use crystal 150 and not bother with the 240, although you're not adding much. Not sure about the amber. Maybe reserve the amber for a more robust ale or use less. For me, Mild recipes are better the simpler they are, grist wise. This holds true for most styles, imo. I'd try to use no more than 3 types of grain. If a Mild is a mild (not mature) ale consumed fresh, within a week or two of being brewed, then a simple recipe is going to work better. I've followed some overly complicated 'Mild' recipes in the past and they took several weeks to reach a drinkable stage.

I know this is a common advice but... how could the number of different grains employed impact the required maturation time in this way?
I generally prefer recipes that use just a few grains, mostly because that makes it easier to adapt them to your own palate, but I don't see how the mere number of them would dictate the beer should take longer to mature.

And please refrain from using the vague term "muddled" in your reply

 

[McMullan]

I know this is a common advice but... how could the number of different grains employed impact the required maturation time in this way?
I generally prefer recipes that use just a few grains, mostly because that makes it easier to adapt them to your own palate, but I don't see how the mere number of them would dictate the beer should take longer to mature.

And please refrain from using the vague term "muddled" in your reply

Beer's quite a simple affair. Complexity is subtle. At least it's best served that way. When I read recipes these days - where complexity of the recipe seems to be the aim more than anything else - several different types of grain on top of the base malt and a several hop varieties with two dozen additions - I wonder if the brewer knows what beer is. Base malts alone are often enough, if the brewer's done enough to produce a balanced beer.

 

[balrog]

mere number of them would dictate the beer should take longer to mature.

I liken it to "Stew tastes better the second day"
https://www.finecooking.com/article/give-it-a-rest-why-some-dishes-taste-better-with-time

 

[monkeymath]

Beer's quite a simple affair. Complexity is subtle. At least it's best served that way. When I read recipes these days - where complexity of the recipe seems to be the aim more than anything else - several different types of grain on top of the base malt and a several hop varieties with two dozen additions - I wonder if the brewer knows what beer is. Base malts alone are often enough, if the brewer's done enough to produce a balanced beer.

I totally agree with this statement. I just don't see how or why overcomplicated recipes would yield beers that require longer maturation times.

 

[bleme]

I totally agree with this statement. I just don't see how or why overcomplicated recipes would yield beers that require longer maturation times.

The very first beer I ever made was a cream ale. It was a very basic recipe and I bottled the first half plain. Then I added a small about of bourbon vanilla extract (from a commercial chocolate maker) to the remaining half and bottled that. Everyone raved over the plain bottles but it took 30 days before the vanilla bottles tasted right at all.

Since then, I have tried all kinds of additives to all kinds of beers. Most of them are fine 'fresh' but every once in a while I hit a combo that requires aging to meld. You might stumble on the right combination of ingredients that doesn't need aging but I think fewer ingredients improves those chances.

 

[McMullan]

I totally agree with this statement. I just don't see how or why overcomplicated recipes would yield beers that require longer maturation times.

I find it takes longer for things to blend together to produce a nice balanced beer, if they ever do. I don't mind getting adventurous with a big porter, but generally I don't feel it adds anything of much to overcomplicate things.

 

[McMullan]

You might stumble on the right combination of ingredients that doesn't need aging but I think fewer ingredients improves those chances.

This is a good description of a Mild, imo.

 

[bleme]

This is a good description of a Mild, imo.

I happen to have a Dark Mild fermenting today but it has 4 grains because I didn't have quite enough MO and had to sub a pound of Crisp Pale.

 

[McMullan]

I happen to have a Dark Mild fermenting today but it has 4 grains because I didn't have quite enough MO and had to sub a pound of Crisp Pale.

I'm sure it's going to be just fine. I like a 50:50 mix of MO and Halcyon pale malt, but haven't been able to get any Halcyon for years.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm sure it's going to be just fine. I like a 50:50 mix of MO and Halcyon pale malt, but haven't been able to get any Halcyon for years.

Halcyon's not been on the Recommended List for 20-odd years, so it won't be grown unless for a specific contract.

 

[bleme]

I'm sure it's going to be just fine. I like a 50:50 mix of MO and Halcyon pale malt, but haven't been able to get any Halcyon for years.

https://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/10-lb-halcyon-fawcett/