English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[HTH1975]

Ah, gotcha, I'd read it as you had gone from there to somewhere else. Out of interest, can I ask what yeast you use?

As for 3g/l dry hop being crazy - Cloudwater use 24g/l....

We use the same house strain for everything. It’s reputed to be from the old Scottish & Newcastle brewery opposite St James’ Park. Brewlab have it if you want to try - it’s a great yeast, fruity, flocs well, can ferment warm. I like it a lot.

3g/L is our end of boil amount - i.e. hop stand, not dry hop. We don’t dry hop many beers to be fair, just the IPAs.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ah - is that the Brewlab F40 strain I mentioned above? It's got a good reputation, it's long been on my to-do list to try.

Do you bottle-condition with the production strain?
[sorry for all the questions, I don't often get to chat about beers I actually know and like, albeit from a long time ago. Happy memories of the Maltings pre-extension, when all they had were ?3 handpulls, doing some serious damage to precious casks of Sheep Special in the days when it only went to favoured local pubs....]

 

[North_of_60]

I just bought a 50 lb. bag of Brewers Malt so I would like to use that as a base. If I combine it with Vienna and Caramel could I get a similar flavor? The recipe below is what I am proposing. (

I used 2.5 lbs. of Vienna because that is how much I have on hand.)​

Est Original Gravity: 1.038 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.008 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.8 %
Bitterness: 32.9 IBUs
Est Color: 11.1 SRM

3 lbs 12.0 oz Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.8 SRM) Grain 50.0 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 33.3 %
12.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
8.0 oz Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 6.7 %

0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 15.1 IBUs -
0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 9.1 IBUs -
1.00 oz EKG [5.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 39.0 min, 194.4 F Hop 8 8.7 IBUs -

1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23.66 ml] Yeast 9 - -

 

[z-bob]

I just bought a 50 lb. bag of Brewers Malt so I would like to use that as a base. If I combine it with Vienna and Caramel could I get a similar flavor? The recipe below is what I am proposing. (

I used 2.5 lbs. of Vienna because that is how much I have on hand.)​

Est Original Gravity: 1.038 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.008 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.8 %
Bitterness: 32.9 IBUs
Est Color: 11.1 SRM

3 lbs 12.0 oz Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.8 SRM) Grain 50.0 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 33.3 %
12.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) Grain 10.0 %
8.0 oz Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 6.7 %

0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 15.1 IBUs -
0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 9.1 IBUs -
1.00 oz EKG [5.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 39.0 min, 194.4 F Hop 8 8.7 IBUs -

1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23.66 ml] Yeast 9 - -

I think the flavor is mainly going to come from the C120 (that's a lot) and the yeast; I doubt the base malts will make much difference. Now let's see what the experts say

 

[HTH1975]

Ah - is that the Brewlab F40 strain I mentioned above? It's got a good reputation, it's long been on my to-do list to try.

Do you bottle-condition with the production strain?
[sorry for all the questions, I don't often get to chat about beers I actually know and like, albeit from a long time ago. Happy memories of the Maltings pre-extension, when all they had were ?3 handpulls, doing some serious damage to precious casks of Sheep Special in the days when it only went to favoured local pubs....]

It’s not bottle-conditioned, it’s filtered and force carbonated.

 

[bierhaus15]

Any recommendations for a brewlabs northern yeasts that are not +POF or maybe just something else interesting that is not available from whitelabs/wyeast.

Saw my name come up and can probably help. I've brewed with 11 BrewLab strains so far and this weekend I'll add King&Barnes and Thwaites to the list. I generally try to brew at least 3 beers with each strain before I make a final verdict. I also maintain a collection of 30+ strains that includes nearly all of the WL/WY UK special release cultures, in addition to stuff I've collected via NCYC and Wallerstein. Needless to say, I really should not be buying more BL yeasts.... I digress.

For BL yeasts, Cullercoats and F40 Newcastle are both really nice yeasts that I think could be categorized as 'northern' strains. Both are good POF- top croppers and have all around easy to use brewing attributes; largely flavor neutral, good top cropping, attenuation, flocculation, and don't require extreme 02 demands (or rousing) for full attenuation. I might prefer the F40 yeast a touch more than CC for use in hoppy styles, but they are somewhat similar.

For others, I really like the Sheffield (Wards) yeast for pale bitters; I have a Batham's bitter clone on tap with it now and it's really lovely. The Somerset 1 yeast is also a nice one, been really liking it for milds and browns where its sweetish-honey flavor profile work well. The Courage yeast is also nice, similar to the Whitbread A strain (1099), and has been nice in more malty-darker bitters; have brewed 2 Director Bitter clones with in addition to other beers. Only strains I have really not liked are the Sussex 1 and Yorkshire 1 yeasts, both of which are POF+ and produced more clove-y notes than expected or wanted.

What type of beers are you looking to brew?

 

[HTH1975]

Saw my name come up and can probably help. I've brewed with 11 BrewLab strains so far and this weekend I'll add King&Barnes and Thwaites to the list. I generally try to brew at least 3 beers with each strain before I make a final verdict. I also maintain a collection of 30+ strains that includes nearly all of the WL/WY UK special release cultures, in addition to stuff I've collected via NCYC and Wallerstein. Needless to say, I really should not be buying more BL yeasts.... I digress.

For BL yeasts, Cullercoats and F40 Newcastle are both really nice yeasts that I think could be categorized as 'northern' strains. Both are good POF- top croppers and have all around easy to use brewing attributes; largely flavor neutral, good top cropping, attenuation, flocculation, and don't require extreme 02 demands (or rousing) for full attenuation. I might prefer the F40 yeast a touch more than CC for use in hoppy styles, but they are somewhat similar.

For others, I really like the Sheffield (Wards) yeast for pale bitters; I have a Batham's bitter clone on tap with it now and it's really lovely. The Somerset 1 yeast is also a nice one, been really liking it for milds and browns where its sweetish-honey flavor profile work well. The Courage yeast is also nice, similar to the Whitbread A strain (1099), and has been nice in more malty-darker bitters; have brewed 2 Director Bitter clones with in addition to other beers. Only strains I have really not liked are the Sussex 1 and Yorkshire 1 yeasts, both of which are POF+ and produced more clove-y notes than expected or wanted.

What type of beers are you looking to brew?

What do you mean by POF? It’s not a term I’ve come across.

 

[Derp]

What do you mean by POF? It’s not a term I’ve come across.

Phenolic Off Flavor Positive (clove-like flavors).

 

[ESBrewer]

Phenolic off flavor positive. Means that it is able (contains the genes) to produce clove-like 4-vinyl-guayacol typical for Hezeweizen etc. when precursor (ferulic acid) is available. Common in wild yeast but not present in all domesticed brewing strains.

 

[ba-brewer]

Saw my name come up and can probably help. I've brewed with 11 BrewLab strains so far and this weekend I'll add King&Barnes and Thwaites to the list. I generally try to brew at least 3 beers with each strain before I make a final verdict. I also maintain a collection of 30+ strains that includes nearly all of the WL/WY UK special release cultures, in addition to stuff I've collected via NCYC and Wallerstein. Needless to say, I really should not be buying more BL yeasts.... I digress.

For BL yeasts, Cullercoats and F40 Newcastle are both really nice yeasts that I think could be categorized as 'northern' strains. Both are good POF- top croppers and have all around easy to use brewing attributes; largely flavor neutral, good top cropping, attenuation, flocculation, and don't require extreme 02 demands (or rousing) for full attenuation. I might prefer the F40 yeast a touch more than CC for use in hoppy styles, but they are somewhat similar.

For others, I really like the Sheffield (Wards) yeast for pale bitters; I have a Batham's bitter clone on tap with it now and it's really lovely. The Somerset 1 yeast is also a nice one, been really liking it for milds and browns where its sweetish-honey flavor profile work well. The Courage yeast is also nice, similar to the Whitbread A strain (1099), and has been nice in more malty-darker bitters; have brewed 2 Director Bitter clones with in addition to other beers. Only strains I have really not liked are the Sussex 1 and Yorkshire 1 yeasts, both of which are POF+ and produced more clove-y notes than expected or wanted.

What type of beers are you looking to brew?

The northern yeast is to brew one of those dry base malt and sugar bitters NorthernBrewer talks about. Not really trying to duplicate anything in particular just going to do a simple bitters in the 1040 range.

I do enter beers in contests and strong bitters and dark mild are the latest two I have been working on. Been going back and forth on trying to brew something that meets the BJCP class and something that may be more typical of a English brewery. One thing that seems to be lacking in my English ales is esters(may have wrong expectations though) so maybe a yeast that is a good ester producer.

The somerset 1 yeast sounds interesting but when I look at the brewlabs list of yeast I don't see it mentioned. Same for some of the others (F40, Cullercoats)you mentioned, is there a different list?
https://www.brewlab.co.uk/services/yeast-list

 

[Derp]

The somerset 1 yeast sounds interesting but when I look at the brewlabs list of yeast I don't see it mentioned. Same for some of the others (F40, Cullercoats)you mentioned, is there a different list?
https://www.brewlab.co.uk/services/yeast-list

From what I gather, they only list a small number of the hundreds/thousands that they have on hand. Contact them via email and they should be able to get you what you need.

 

[bierhaus15]

The northern yeast is to brew one of those dry base malt and sugar bitters NorthernBrewer talks about. Not really trying to duplicate anything in particular just going to do a simple bitters in the 1040 range.

You may be interested in this recipe, or something similar. It has become my "go-to" for dry and light bitters. I modeled this on Batham's Bitter, a quasi-legendary bitter from the Black Country that uses pale malt and brewing sugar. I've never tried the real thing, but the combination of ingredients has been lovely. And since I've got my cask setup working, it's been even better. If you can't get Ragus, I've found turbinado (raw sugar) has an almost identical flavor to their no 1.

1.040, 1.008, 40 BU, 7 SRM

92% Maris Otter (Fawcetts)
8% Ragus No.1 Invert

Northdown @ 75 min
UK Fuggles @ 30 min
UK Fuggles @ WP
UK Goldings @ DH (Cask)

BL-Cullercoats

A word on yeast character, I've found the brewlabs yeasts to be relatively clean fermenting - they all definitely have their own character - but none have expressed over the top fruity. Although that's rarely what I want in my UK beers.

 

[HTH1975]

A word on yeast character, I've found the brewlabs yeasts to be relatively clean fermenting - they all definitely have their own character - but none have expressed over the top fruity. Although that's rarely what I want in my UK beers.

What temperature are you fermentating at? - higher temperatures give more esters.

Also, consider how much you’re oxggenating your wort. Traditional breweries just splash the wort down the side of the FV, so this affects attenuation and probably esters.

I know it’s more popular in the US to oxygenate your wort to high levels, so worth considering.

 

[bierhaus15]

I typically pitch at 17C and free rise to 20C.

That said, I do oxygenate my wort more than what is probably typical for smaller UK breweries, although nothing extreme. My preference is also for less diacetyl production. Attenuation has typically been >64% for most styles.

 

[HTH1975]

I typically pitch at 17C and free rise to 20C.

That said, I do oxygenate my wort more than what is probably typical for smaller UK breweries, although nothing extreme. My preference is also for less diacetyl production. Attenuation has typically been >64% for most styles.

The two breweries I’ve worked at both fermented at the same temperature (22-24C).

 

[HTH1975]

Also, we tend to pitch at higher temperature then let the cooling kick in on the FVs. 25-28C isn’t an uncommon pitching temperature.

I’ve read accounts (from Ron Pattinson‘s blog) that some breweries used to pitch at 15-16C and let the temperature rise freely, as I assume they had no temperature control.

 

[ba-brewer]

You may be interested in this recipe, or something similar. It has become my "go-to" for dry and light bitters. I modeled this on Batham's Bitter, a quasi-legendary bitter from the Black Country that uses pale malt and brewing sugar. I've never tried the real thing, but the combination of ingredients has been lovely. And since I've got my cask setup working, it's been even better. If you can't get Ragus, I've found turbinado (raw sugar) has an almost identical flavor to their no 1.

1.040, 1.008, 40 BU, 7 SRM

92% Maris Otter (Fawcetts)
8% Ragus No.1 Invert

Northdown @ 75 min
UK Fuggles @ 30 min
UK Fuggles @ WP
UK Goldings @ DH (Cask)

BL-Cullercoats

A word on yeast character, I've found the brewlabs yeasts to be relatively clean fermenting - they all definitely have their own character - but none have expressed over the top fruity. Although that's rarely what I want in my UK beers.

Good to know on the character, I am sure part of my issues with esters could be expectation.

When you say turbinado tastes the same as Ragus do mean direct from the bag or when it is inverted?

Do you account for any IBUs from the WP hops and how much of the 40IBUs come from the 75min addition?

 

[Hanglow]

I travel to Wales on the train a couple of times a year and Bathams is the one reason why I enjoy an otherwise tiresome journey, as I have to change trains at Wolverhampton and there is a pub ( The Great Western) near the station that always has it on. It's a Holden's pub I think and also has their beers on too, but there's never enough time to drink them

It's a great beer though, has sweetness, dryness, enough bitterness and lightness all in one glass. very moreish

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The two breweries I’ve worked at both fermented at the same temperature (22-24C).

On the pilot kit as well? Isn’t that meant to be one of the main differences when scaling up, you need to go a bit warmer to get the esters that are otherwise suppressed by the greater hydrostatic pressure?

You’re not the first I’ve heard of fermenting up to 24C, but I believe Marstons still do an old school free rise from ?16C going into the unions. Suspect we’re back to the issue of phenolics from British yeast.

 

[Hanglow]

St Austell start at 15c I think too, their yeast goes banana if it starts too warm.

 

[bierhaus15]

It's a great beer though, has sweetness, dryness, enough bitterness and lightness all in one glass. very moreish

Nice. Have you tried the mild?

 

[kmarkstevens]

@HTH1975 very interesting and informative posts.

Like @ong, I recently got the WL37 Yorkshire Square yeast from the Vault release. Made a 25 liter batch of Ron Pattisons 1939 Boddington Mild and split with WL37, Wyeast1469 W Yorkie, and Notty (my go to for things English). The Yorkie Square had sulfur odor (that has faded). Weird, the Notty was spot on OG FG, the Yorkie Sq finished at very low at 1006, and the W Yorkie high at 1012. All in my garage at ~60F. Anyhoo, bottling tonight and should be ready to sample in 2 weeks when I'm back from a biz trip to China.

I love this thread!

 

[ba-brewer]

@HTH1975 very interesting and informative posts.

Like @ong, I recently got the WL37 Yorkshire Square yeast from the Vault release. Made a 25 liter batch of Ron Pattisons 1939 Boddington Mild and split with WL37, Wyeast1469 W Yorkie, and Notty (my go to for things English). The Yorkie Square had sulfur odor (that has faded). Weird, the Notty was spot on OG FG, the Yorkie Sq finished at very low at 1006, and the W Yorkie high at 1012. All in my garage at ~60F. Anyhoo, bottling tonight and should be ready to sample in 2 weeks when I'm back from a biz trip to China.

I love this thread!

Sulfur but no clove from the wlp037?
So no temp control just ambient air temp? What do you think the delta temp swings were?

 

[HTH1975]

On the pilot kit as well? Isn’t that meant to be one of the main differences when scaling up, you need to go a bit warmer to get the esters that are otherwise suppressed by the greater hydrostatic pressure?

You’re not the first I’ve heard of fermenting up to 24C, but I believe Marstons still do an old school free rise from ?16C going into the unions. Suspect we’re back to the issue of phenolics from British yeast.

Neither of those breweries had pilot kits, lmao. It’s judt using the brewer’s experience to make sure the beer is right when developing something new.

 

[Hanglow]

Nice. Have you tried the mild?

Yes, it's not as good imo. But it's still a decent pint. I prefer other milds such as Holt's and Elgoods. That said it's been a while since I've had them and I've never tried them side by side, whereas I had the Bathams mild at the same time as the bitter

I'm fairly sure the bathams mild is just the bitter liquored back and dark invert used instead of the lighter one, or caramel colour is added, although i might be wrong

I've tried the bottled bathams bitter too but while it's fine for a bottled bitter, it's not as good as draught

 

[deadwolfbones]

I made a poorly educated American's attempt at an ESB (a style that doesn't even exist, apparently!) last weekend and missed my target volume/gravity pretty badly (high and low, respectively), so I basically have a best bitter. It tastes pretty good! Started 1.046 and finished (assuming it's done) at 1.014ish, so 4.4%. Used MO, C75, and C45 w/ all Willamette hops, mashing around 154F. Fermented with WY1968 at around 66-70F and it was done (maybe) within three days. Can't wait to see what it's like carbed up.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I made a poorly educated American's attempt at an ESB (a style that doesn't even exist, apparently!)

If anyone has ever made it, you can rest assured that it exists. An organization that has merely self proclaimed itself to be the premier authority on beer styles may claim to not recognize it, but that is a far cry from stating that it does not exist.

 

[Hanglow]

Bottled a strong ale today, continued my habit of combining german and english malts.

92.3% Crisp Extra Pale MO
7.7% IREKS Teak ( this is a dark crystal, 140ebc0 Not used it before)

hops- Admiral bittering 50g@ 60mins
25g admiral 15 mins
25g Admiral 5 mins
20g Homegrown hallertau mittelfruh 5 mins.

about 50ibus in total

og 1.062 fg1.016

just s04yeast, two packets for 24 litres or so

managed to cock up the temp control, it rose to 27c after two days thanks to a probe falling out thankfully tasted and smelled fine when bottling. in fact,very promising.

last 100ml or so of bottling bucket

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If anyone has ever made it, you can rest assured that it exists. An organization that has merely self proclaimed itself to be the premier authority on beer styles may claim to not recognize it, but that is a far cry from stating that it does not exist.

It’s more the other way round, the self-proclaimed organisation claimed that ESB was a style when nobody in Britain regards it as a style. I can say I’m the definitive expert on national anthems and that God Save The Queen is the national anthem of the US - but I rather think that it’s for USians to make that call.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It’s more the other way round, the self-proclaimed organisation claimed that ESB was a style when nobody in Britain regards it as a style. I can say I’m the definitive expert on national anthems and that God Save The Queen is the national anthem of the US - but I rather think that it’s for USians to make that call.

Indeed you are correct here. I did have the story backwards for ESB.