English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Puddlethumper]

I am going to propose for myself the following experiment with respect to some bittering/flavor/aroma characteristics: That is to say that the first hop mentioned will be added at first boil and at 60 minutes (I do 90 minute boils btw), and the second hop mentioned towards the end of the boil and at flame-out.

EKG/EKG
Fuggle/EKG
Challenger/EKG
Target/EKG

I believe that the changes in bittering hops represents a movement from relatively lower Alpha to higher Alpha, and I am interested in "testing" the results.

I like the simplification and elimination of variables. It would be interesting to have a bottle of each to do a side-by-side comparison. If you go ahead with it please post your findings.

You've actually gotten me thinking about digging out my old Mr Beer to make a few small test batches.

 

[lhommedieu]

Will do. I could have added some other hops, Northdown and Northern Brewer, for example, but these four will suffice as a first round.

I think that London 1968 is a good choice with Bramling Cross.

I am going to have to bite the bullet and get another chest freezer for fermenting lagers, and use the current one for ales. I'm fortunate to have an unfinished cellar with a storm door, so as soon as the temperatures start dropping here I can lager in the cellar. My cellar typically drops down to around freezing in the winter (and if goes much lower, I can adjust it with a space heater and thermostat) and rarely gets above 65F in the summer unless we have some really hot days.

 

[lowtones84]

I tasted my ordinary bitter from a couple pages back (the one that I almost put flaked oats in...but didn't ) and it's already really good. After 9 days of primary and about 12 in the bottle it's already very nice. Coming in at 3.5% it isn't bursting with flavor, but it has more than enough malt flavor and a little hop bitterness to keep me interested. I'm imagining it will only be better in a couple of weeks.

Also, I'm sold on WLP002

 

[Puddlethumper]

Also, I'm sold on WLP002

Congrats on the success with your bitters. That recipe looks good.

I'm going to have to invest in some 002 again. Have several harvested slurries of 004 and 013 on hand so I've been trying to use them when I can. Ahh, so many beers to brew and so little time .....

 

[EvilBrewing]

Double Diamond is a MUST DO English Bitter. I got the recipe from my Clonebrews book.
The highest compliment of that batch was from a friend of mine from Britain who said it brought him back home with every sip.

 

[lhommedieu]

For future reference, how do WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 compare?

Edit: there is a thread on HBT that suggests that WLP002 tends towards a drier/more neutral profile.

The following is useful:

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain.cfm

It's helpful to know, for example, that London 1968 tends towards a less attenuated, more fruity beer than 1028 - although fruity esters are apparent with 1028. It would be worthwhile to compare the two using the same process, since I work on getting attenuation with 1968 by keeping my mash temperature low, fermentation temperature at 67, etc. But that's another variable - I'll work through the hops first, then switch to yeasts, lol...

 

[Puddlethumper]

For future reference, how do WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 compare?

I don't know from personal experience but some have said they are the same strain. Both Fuller's and completely interchangeable.

 

[lowtones84]

For future reference, how do WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 compare?

I don't know from personal experience but some have said they are the same strain. Both Fuller's and completely interchangeable.

Yeah, they're supposed to be the same strain. Some people will attest that even the same strain from different companies acts slightly differently. I don't have any evidence to confirm or deny this, but I could see some subtle differences being possible just from the methods they use to extract/produce/store/whatever.

The one beer I've had from my first batch with WLP 002 was pretty neutral, but I kept it on the low side of the recommended temps until after day 4 of fermentation. It certainly left some malt profile, but I wouldn't mind a little more honestly. I don't know what the FG was unfortunately because I broke my hydrometer while getting supplies together to bottle :smack:

 

[Barley_Bob]

Thanks for the tips and notes in here. I used this, plus some other recipes on the site, to put together a recipe for an ESB. I cracked it the other day, and it's excellent. I used WLP006 Bedford British (Charles Wells).

 

[DavidJP]

I used WLP006 Bedford British (Charles Wells).

I'm a big fan of the Bedford strain, takes longer to clear than 002 but gives a nice rounded flavour

 

[Barley_Bob]

I've read threads where people talk about this in regards to Bedford, and it was not my experience. I brewed this in a heat wave, and I don't have a dedicated ferm chamber. So, I kept it at an average of 66F (slightly higher than reported average use temp by HBTers)for the first week, and then I let it [slowly] drift up to 74F for the second week. It was done and cleared in no time.

I've also heard people talk about a musty odor associated with this yeast. This was my experience as well, but the odor cleared really well after this week at a higher temp and then a cold crash. What I'm left with, is a very clear beer, with excellent yeast character.

Someone is going to ream me on the fast turn around... This is the quickest turn around I've had on a batch, and it's been a great result. I would consider it as an alternate strategy for this yeast.

Disclosure: I have not used WLP002

 

[JKaranka]

Today I had the weirdest experience. In Yorkshire for the first time and I had cask John Smith. First time I see it. Thin, watery, metallic, but immensely drinkable compared to the widely available keg and can versions. Bitters around here are definitively fairly bitter too. Not insane craft bitter, but multiples of pilsner bitter.

 

[rhys333]

If you use 1469 - at least in my experience - keep a handle on temperature for sure. I love it fermented on the cool side 63-66 .... maybe a slight rise to 68 toward the very end. I do not like it if it starts in the upper 60's and goes over 70 - it can throw some weird flavors when it gets a little warm.
It is a really great yeast though for bitters and milds - it can add a lot to a beer.

I'm using 1469 for the first time now. Very impressed so far with fermentation characteristics, top-cropping ability too. I decided to push it warmer, around 68-70F... i'm a fan of esters. I guess I'll see if it was the right choice for me in a couple weeks. You mention weird flavors at warmer temps... how would you describe it?

 

[DavidJP]

I've read threads where people talk about this in regards to Bedford, and it was not my experience. I brewed this in a heat wave, and I don't have a dedicated ferm chamber. So, I kept it at an average of 66F (slightly higher than reported average use temp by HBTers)for the first week, and then I let it [slowly] drift up to 74F for the second week. It was done and cleared in no time.

Disclosure: I have not used WLP002

I think you'd notice the difference in flocculation, white labs site lists Bedford as High and 002 as Very High. I've used 002 a lot and continue to do so but prefer Bedford I think although not displeased with 002 to any degree. If you wanted to get a quicker turnaround I'd use 002, amazing how quick it flocks out.

Theres a good discussion of Bedford vs other UK yeast strains on this site
http://perfectpint.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/evaluating-yeast-character-part-ii.html

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm using 1469 for the first time now. Very impressed so far with fermentation characteristics, top-cropping ability too. I decided to push it warmer, around 68-70F... i'm a fan of esters. I guess I'll see if it was the right choice for me in a couple weeks. You mention weird flavors at warmer temps... how would you describe it?

FWIW, I use 1469 in everything, usually ferment it 66-68, but have gone up to 70-72, without any weird off flavors. It does get very fruity at those temps, which I guess could be a little much for some.

 

[rhys333]

FWIW, I use 1469 in everything, usually ferment it 66-68, but have gone up to 70-72, without any weird off flavors. It does get very fruity at those temps, which I guess could be a little much for some.

I'm good with the fruity. More complex, I think. Do you top crop as well? I'm surprised to see a 3rd krausen has formed after dirt skim and then collection.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm good with the fruity. More complex, I think. Do you top crop as well? I'm surprised to see a 3rd krausen has formed after dirt skim and then collection.

I do top crop with it on occasion, but more often than not I end up repitching from the cake.

My only issue with the yeast is that the krausen usually takes a long time to fall. Usually a week or more after reaching FG, even after everything below has dropped bright.

 

[balrog]

Yeah, they're supposed to be the same strain. Some people will attest that even the same strain from different companies acts slightly differently. I don't have any evidence to confirm or deny this, but I could see some subtle differences being possible just from the methods they use to extract/produce/store/whatever.

Regarding strains; I recently had an interesting conversation with someone who used to be in an area brew club with the owner of a local brewery. They determined not only what yeast strain to use for the flagship pale ale, but also which generation re-pitch gave the desired flavors--this then was what they sent to the lab to culture and freeze production lots. I'm not sure how to rectify this against (a) they're constantly re-pitching all day long during the production, (b) on their tour they say they will re-pitch for several months before starting with another frozen sample, (c) if re-pitching changes flavor profile of yeasts, how the thunder am I *EVER* going to figure out any of this grand designed experiment that is brewing?!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Regarding strains; I recently had an interesting conversation with someone who used to be in an area brew club with the owner of a local brewery. They determined not only what yeast strain to use for the flagship pale ale, but also which generation re-pitch gave the desired flavors--this then was what they sent to the lab to culture and freeze production lots. I'm not sure how to rectify this against (a) they're constantly re-pitching all day long during the production, (b) on their tour they say they will re-pitch for several months before starting with another frozen sample, (c) if re-pitching changes flavor profile of yeasts, how the thunder am I *EVER* going to figure out any of this grand designed experiment that is brewing?!

Yeast are a living thing, and tend to do what they want. If the brewery is top notch with their yeast management, they may be able to go for many generations with the same pitch before they have to start fresh. Or, I know some brewers select a yeast as their "house" yeast in the most literal sense, and they just keep repitching and allowing it to change over time until it starts to throw things that aren't just different, but bad. And then the same brewer may do something different with another strain, and go no more than 2 or 3 generations before starting over with a fresh culture (this example is also from a local brewery who does exactly that)

I personally will go up to maybe 5 generations, but I won't go more than that. For me, it peaks around generation 3-4, and that's not "different" flavors but rather quality of flavor, intensity of flavor, manageability, speed, etc. It ferments easiest, best, and fastest. The flavor isn't different, just more of what I want and less of what I don't. Less time conditioning, etc. When you go too far, and you start getting higher percentages of mutants, that's when things can start changing, sometimes better or sometimes worse.

 

[lhommedieu]

Yeast are a living thing, and tend to do what they want.....

I'm a complete novice at yeast harvesting and re-pitching. How do you predict the total cell count if you harvest yeast and stir-plate it?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm a complete novice at yeast harvesting and re-pitching. How do you predict the total cell count if you harvest yeast and stir-plate it?

That's one of those things where neither YeastCalc nor Mr. Malty can do it all, so I use a combination of the two.

I use Mr. Malty's "repitching from slurry" settings to get an approximation of how many cells I have. I usually don't need to make a starter from it since I usually harvest one day, and then repitch a day or two later (and one yeast cake usually provides enough yeast after rinsing for 2-3 batches without needing starters, depending on the gravity of the new batches, or maybe one batch with no starter if you're doing a 1.120 Barleywine or something like that), but when I do have to make a starter from it, I go with YeastCalc, using the cell count from Mr. Malty as the initial innoculation rate. Since Mr. Malty is giving you viable cells, not total cells, I leave the viability in YeastCalc at maximium (96%).

 

[rhys333]

I'm a complete novice at yeast harvesting and re-pitching. How do you predict the total cell count if you harvest yeast and stir-plate it?

Another user sent me this when I had similar questions:
https://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

Also, if you want to try top-cropping, there's a video on youtube:
http://youtu.be/nCvR49yYeVE
With the right strain, you'll get super healthy pure yeast. I'm finding this is my preferred method.

 

[rhys333]

My only issue with the yeast is that the krausen usually takes a long time to fall. Usually a week or more after reaching FG, even after everything below has dropped bright.

Exactly my experience with it. A small price to pay though for a bright tasty beer

 

[unionrdr]

Top-cropping does look like an easier way to get clean yest. Might try that sometime when I brew twice in one week.

 

[user 19629]

Here are a couple of my favorites
This one is from the Wheeler book, Brew Your Own British Real Ale

Hook Norton Hooky Dark - Mild
================================================================================
Batch Size: 6.047 gal
Boil Size: 7.547 gal
Boil Time: 90.000 min
Efficiency: 80%
OG: 1.033
FG: 1.008
ABV: 3.2%
Bitterness: 25.6 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 12 SRM (Mosher)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) UK Grain 4.750 lb Yes No 78% 3 L
Simpsons - Crystal Medium Grain 10.000 oz Yes No 74% 55 L
Cane (Beet) Sugar Sugar 10.000 oz No No 100% 0 L
Corn, Flaked Grain 6.000 oz Yes No 80% 1 L
Black (Patent) Malt Grain 3.000 oz Yes No 55% 500 L
Total grain: 6.562 lb

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Challenger 8.9% 0.332 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 11.4
Willamette 5.0% 0.317 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 6.1
First Gold 7.5% 0.282 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 8.1
Willamette 5.0% 0.317 oz Boil 0.000 s Pellet 0.0

Misc
================================================================================
Name Type Use Amount Time
Yeast Nutrient Other Boil 1.000 tsp 10.000 min
Whirlfloc Fining Boil 2.000 qt 10.000 min

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
UK Dark Ale Yeast Ale Dry 0.388 oz Primary

Mash
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Temp Target Time
Conversion Infusion 4.082 gal 158.787 F 153.000 F 60.000 min
Final Batch Sparge Infusion 4.190 gal 172.916 F 165.200 F 15.000 min



This one I got from Zymurgy.



OXON JHB - Standard/Ordinary Bitter
================================================================================
Batch Size: 5.500 gal
Boil Size: 7.000 gal
Boil Time: 90.000 min
Efficiency: 80%
OG: 1.040
FG: 1.011
ABV: 3.8%
Bitterness: 28.3 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 6 SRM (Mosher)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) UK Grain 7.000 lb Yes No 78% 3 L
White Wheat Malt Grain 8.000 oz Yes No 86% 2 L
Total grain: 7.500 lb

Hops
================================================================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Challenger 5.7% 1.000 oz Boil 90.000 min Pellet 21.8
Mount Hood 5.5% 0.500 oz Dry Hop 7.000 day Pellet 0.0
First Gold 3.3% 1.500 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 6.4

Yeast
================================================================================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Wyeast - London Ale III Ale Liquid 0.528 cup Primary

Mash
================================================================================
Name Type Amount Temp Target Time
Conversion Infusion 3.994 gal 158.291 F 151.000 F 60.000 min
Final Batch Sparge Infusion 3.981 gal 175.457 F 165.200 F 15.000 min

 

[Hanglow]

Today I had the weirdest experience. In Yorkshire for the first time and I had cask John Smith. First time I see it. Thin, watery, metallic, but immensely drinkable compared to the widely available keg and can versions. Bitters around here are definitively fairly bitter too. Not insane craft bitter, but multiples of pilsner bitter.

I've never had it on cask. Not sure I'd go out of my way to try it

Yorkshire has a lot of great breweries that's for certain

One of my favourite yorkshire bitters is Acorn's Barnsley Bitter, it's an excellent example. I did a quick search to see what the recipe might be and I found this blog post which made very interesting reading for anyone interested in Yorkshire bitter or indeed english beer in general

http://goodfoodgoodbeer.wordpress.com/2013/11/30/heres-to-yorkshire-bitter/

As for Barnsley Bitter, - MO, crystal, pale chocolate, hopped with challenger, their own two strain yeast. I can see why I like it

 

[lhommedieu]

Nice article. I'll go back and read it again when I'm not so bleary-eyed.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here are a couple of my favorites
This one is from the Wheeler book, Brew Your Own British Real Ale

Interesting recipes. Since I don't have a good dark mild recipe on hand that one may be my first attempt to brew one.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Interesting recipes. Since I don't have a good dark mild recipe on hand that one may be my first attempt to brew one.

I could go for another Mild. I realized the other day that I've got everything on hand to brew my house Dark Mild. Except for the Pale Chocolate malt. I've got a few ounces each of black malt and roasted barley I can sub. Won't be the same but good enough. Probably knock that out in the next month or two.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I could go for another Mild. I realized the other day that I've got everything on hand to brew my house Dark Mild. Except for the Pale Chocolate malt. I've got a few ounces each of black malt and roasted barley I can sub. Won't be the same but good enough. Probably knock that out in the next month or two.

What goes into yours?