English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[HM-2]

Imperial Malt is basically the Simpsons equivalent of Warminster Maltings Gold. Basically unobtanium these days but my favourite base malt by a country mile.

Enzymatic activity is probably a little lower but IME fermented about as dry as MO.

 

[Colindo]

I've been experimenting with making my own parti-gyle recipes and must say it is as difficult as expected. I made two so far, the second is just about to finish fermentation. I created some schematic graphs to show the process, because otherwise it is practically impossible to discuss this way of brewing here in Germany.


My goal is to get three to four really different beers from one brew, as Fuller's does with theirs(or did, rip Chiswick Bitter). So in the first attempt I went with a simple grist and did two very different aroma hoppings in the boils as well as some additional burtonisation in the stronger gyle. The weakest gyle then got that commercial caramel with 3000 EBC that I recently purchased. The Strong Bitter was dry-hopped from the beginning of fermentation.

Tasting notes: I was not completely happy with the first four beers. Caramalt creates a really sweetish flavour that was apparent in all but the weakest beer. Fermentation with WY1098 was sluggish in the weaker beers, so I had some overcarbonisation. The yeast also precipitates significantly less than WLP007, which is one of my favourite yeasts.
The caramel was nice, so the Dark Mild was really as I expected. I served that and the Strong Bitter at a homebrew convention and got some good reviews. Most preferred the Strong Bitter, especially because of the dry hop. The 10 minute Tango addition had some grassiness however, which was not to my preference. The Pub Ale was right in the middle and not too overpowering. Liked that the most. The Barley Wine was intensely bitter and I could taste the gypsum, so I won't do this extra burtonisation again. But it might get better over time, so I'm keeping some bottles.


The second brew is for the 10th anniversary of the Dusseldorf Homebrew Club. A friend has a bigger setup than me, so we used it to make two beers. He will serve the Stout, I'll serve the Dark Mild, both from hand pumps. The Imperial Stout was an unexpected extra because we had too much first gyle. WLP007 this time and one of the beers is already bright, after one week of fermentation. Really love the flocculation on that one. Really looking forward to how these turn out.

 

[MikeScott]

I've been experimenting with making my own parti-gyle recipes and must say it is as difficult as expected. I made two so far, the second is just about to finish fermentation. I created some schematic graphs to show the process, because otherwise it is practically impossible to discuss this way of brewing here in Germany.
View attachment 856909

My goal is to get three to four really different beers from one brew, as Fuller's does with theirs(or did, rip Chiswick Bitter). So in the first attempt I went with a simple grist and did two very different aroma hoppings in the boils as well as some additional burtonisation in the stronger gyle. The weakest gyle then got that commercial caramel with 3000 EBC that I recently purchased. The Strong Bitter was dry-hopped from the beginning of fermentation.

Tasting notes: I was not completely happy with the first four beers. Caramalt creates a really sweetish flavour that was apparent in all but the weakest beer. Fermentation with WY1098 was sluggish in the weaker beers, so I had some overcarbonisation. The yeast also precipitates significantly less than WLP007, which is one of my favourite yeasts.
The caramel was nice, so the Dark Mild was really as I expected. I served that and the Strong Bitter at a homebrew convention and got some good reviews. Most preferred the Strong Bitter, especially because of the dry hop. The 10 minute Tango addition had some grassiness however, which was not to my preference. The Pub Ale was right in the middle and not too overpowering. Liked that the most. The Barley Wine was intensely bitter and I could taste the gypsum, so I won't do this extra burtonisation again. But it might get better over time, so I'm keeping some bottles.

View attachment 856908
The second brew is for the 10th anniversary of the Dusseldorf Homebrew Club. A friend has a bigger setup than me, so we used it to make two beers. He will serve the Stout, I'll serve the Dark Mild, both from hand pumps. The Imperial Stout was an unexpected extra because we had too much first gyle. WLP007 this time and one of the beers is already bright, after one week of fermentation. Really love the flocculation on that one. Really looking forward to how these turn out.

Partigyle has always intrigued me, I've done several with the Scottish beers, they're really straight forward, and also a Old Ale / ESB session, the Old Ale was great, but the ESB was meh.
I'm sure you already have a good grasp on what you're doing, but I made a video with the basics of Partigyle, and it has some good information, and links to spreadsheets etc...

 

[Miraculix]

My next one will also be a partigyle. Just to not waste all the goodness that gets left in a heavy grain bill. First gyle will be a tripple or whatever else you call that one with 3 different yeasts in three small fermenters to compare them, each about 4 litres. Second one will be an apa-ish type of session beer/american bitter. With whatever reasonable volume I am being left with. Og should be around 1.09 for the tripple and around 1.04 for the session beer.

I actually like the term american bitter for a well balanced session apa. Around 30 Ibus, nice and hoppy, bit of residual sweetness, basically a bitter with american hops and not much yeast expression except for fruit. Verdant ipa is perfect for this. But so is Nottingham and US 05.

 

[Shenanigans]

My best partigyle was a Barleywine and black belgian IPA. Batch sparged in a 55l cool box calculating 50% mash efficency for the first run and hit my target OG of 1.105. Capped the mash with some crystal wheat and carafa special II and got an OG of 1.050 for the second run. Which I fermented with a witbier yeast and hopped like an IPA with citra cascade and simcoe. Capping the mash for the second run helps stop it from being thin and also opens up lots of possibilities to brew a totally different 2nd and maybe even 3rd beer. I do this process once a year as the barleywine requires about 300g of hops and is for using up hops before they get old. Firstly I fermented it with US-05 but now I use Voss.

 

[Colindo]

@MikeScott Thanks, I'll have a look.

@Miraculix Maybe I should try something like this as well. Lots of hops for the weaker beer helps with the drinkability, when most of the goodness is already in the stronger beer.

@Shenanigans Without blending things are alot easier. And you are right, you can make quite different beers in one brew. But I like the traditional British method that includes blending and still trying to get very different beers. Not possible to have as different colours as a barleywine and a black IPA, though...

 

[Shenanigans]

@MikeScott Thanks, I'll have a look.

@Miraculix Maybe I should try something like this as well. Lots of hops for the weaker beer helps with the drinkability, when most of the goodness is already in the stronger beer.

@Shenanigans Without blending things are alot easier. And you are right, you can make quite different beers in one brew. But I like the traditional British method that includes blending and still trying to get very different beers. Not possible to have as different colours as a barleywine and a black IPA, though...

Hi Colindo, yeah sorry my post didn't really address your original post. I was just rambling on about my own personal experience with partigyle. There's not an abundance of information about the topic so any bit of information helps I hope. I don't think I'll ever get into blending but good luck with your project(s). I'm interested to see/hear/read what comes out.

 

[DuncB]

@Shenanigans
Might be some info here.

https://prstemp.wixsite.com/tritun-books/guile-brews-1

and here

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Found these at my local Systembolaget today, bought a few.
Are they any good?
And I ordered a new 2L Erlenmeyer from my online HBS and got 2 free packs of hops nearing BBE.
Any suggestions on how to use?

 

[InspectorJon]

got 2 free packs of hops nearing BBE.
Any suggestions on how to use?

Pale ale, American IPA, Hoppy Pilsner

 

[Peebee]

"Best Bitter" seems to an "export only" beer? I think that would say it all, don't hold your hopes up!

https://buxtonbrewery.co.uk/shop/

"Galena" on the www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk site is the chap to contact ... he lives in Buxton.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

We had an "autumn meeting" last night with my local snow mobile association/club, wich in reality is just an excuse to get together and grill burgers, drink beer and have a sauna...
Anyways I tried a few cans and were not particularly impressed, too dark, heavy and caramelly, was more of a brown ale than a bitter, or an American's attempt at making a bitter...

 

[Peebee]

British "Bitter" isn't really a drink that transfers to cans, bottles, kegs, etc. very well (emm ... at all?). You're better off attempting to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone will agree with my view!

 

[Colindo]

British "Bitter" isn't really a drink that transfers to cans, bottles, kegs, etc. very well (emm ... at all?). You're better off attempting to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone will agree with my view!

Fully agree with you, with the exception of bottle-conditioned beer. That can be a worthy companion to cask.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Taylor's and Black Sheep are decent in bottle, but I agree they are miles apart from the cask served offerings...

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

British "Bitter" isn't really a drink that transfers to cans, bottles, kegs, etc. very well (emm ... at all?). You're better off attempting to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone will agree with my view!

Kind of agree. Once bottled it becomes light ale, pale ale, amber ale. Might still be good but no longer bitter.

edit:
With the recent rise in popularity of weaker beers, perhaps it's time to reinvigorate Light Ale as a beer style.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/articles/9643/light-ale/

 

[Peebee]

Kind of agree. Once bottled it becomes light ale, pale ale, amber ale. Might still be good but no longer bitter.

Originally happened the other way about: The 19th C. "Pale Ales had a class of "light", "boys", "table", etc. (?) beers which (if I'm remembering right) formed mainly from how the beer taxation rates worked in the UK. "Bitter" emerged as a type of Pale Ale (lighter in alcohol? But "lighter will be relative ... some "Bitters" I've attempted to recreate from Ron Pattinson's work ain't weak!). WWI knocked the stuffing out of most beers' former strength, "Mild Ale" suffered worse, where upon some "Mild Ales" made the leap to "Bitter" ... okay, I can only recite evidence for Wadworth's "6X", a XXXX beer that transitioned to a "premium bitter", but it doesn't take much imagination to see it happening elsewhere.

"Bitter" appears to have claimed the space of "Pale Ales" for lower alcohol draught (cask) beers, and Pale Ale seems to have cornered the higher alcohol, bottled, slot ... but not exclusively! This seems to be extreme in my favourite Brewery at the moment: Sam Smith's; Their "Old Brewery bitter" (4% ABV) is sold as cask and I don't think it comes in bottles, whereas, their "Yorkshire Stingo" (8.5% ABV) is bottled and quite inappropriate to find any other way (doesn't say "pale ale" on the label ... try their "India Ale" then ... still doesn't say "pale ale", okay, try the - Organic! - "Pale Ale", but I don't think it's as good as the "India Ale").

"Amber Ale" was a thing in early 19th C., 18th C. Britain. But died out (along with diastatic amber malt), though has more recently been resurrected to mean beer ... err ... sort of ... "Amber" in colour?


Or ... they are the conclusions I could reach combing through Ron Pattinson's work amongst others. I have a substantial advantage over Ron P. though ... while he's a bit nuts, I'm considerably nuts! As in, "medically described nuts" ... and I've not been sighed off by the hospital yet ... ac-tu-ally ... people like me are never signed off ... it's for life! i.e. There's more of my demented prattling to come yet. I gain a great (distorted?) imagination in return though (Oh ... there's that fairy again).

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

Bitter was draught pale ale (essentially any pale ale). The name "bitter" was what people ordering it at the bar nicknamed it. There were brewers, not all of them, that bottled the beer sold as bitter in their pub and called it IPA/PA/Light Ale.
Modern "Amber Ale" is often just bitter differently named to make it fashionable.

 

[Willy]

Tomorrow's brew day -
Squirrel Nut Brown Ale
Batch size - 11.25 gallon
ABV - 4.9%
SRM - 16
IBU - 26

10 lb Golden Promise (like pale ale)
8 lb Marris Otter
2.5 lb brown ale (L° - 55)
8 oz flaked oats (not milled)
5 oz choc malt (L° - 350)
4 oz coffee malt (L° - 150)

Hops - 30 m. Each
2 oz fuggle,
2 oz UK Kent goldings

Yeast 2 PK Fermentis US-05

Fermenting at 72° F
(range allowed from 67-77)
It is still pretty warm in the south so mostly cooling for temp control. It can get up to 85 mid day and down to 60 at night.

 

[Shenanigans]

Or ... they are the conclusions I could reach combing through Ron Pattinson's work amongst others. I have a substantial advantage over Ron P. though ... while he's a bit nuts, I'm considerably nuts! As in, "medically described nuts" ... and I've not been sighed off by the hospital yet ... ac-tu-ally ... people like me are never signed off ... it's for life! i.e. There's more of my demented prattling to come yet. I gain a great (distorted?) imagination in return though (Oh ... there's that fairy again).

OK that explains a lot
There's a saying in Germany that the craziest farmer has the biggest potatoes.
Transfering that logic to homebrewing your beers must be feckin brilliant.

 

[Miraculix]

OK that explains a lot
There's a saying in Germany that the craziest farmer has the biggest potatoes.
Transfering that logic to homebrewing your beers must be feckin brilliant.

Its the most stupid farmers, not the most crazy farmers, to be precise.

"Die dümmsten Bauern haben die dicksten Kartoffeln."

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Tomorrow's brew day -
Squirrel Nut Brown Ale
Batch size - 11.25 gallon
ABV - 4.9%
SRM - 16
IBU - 26

10 lb Golden Promise (like pale ale)
8 lb Marris Otter
2.5 lb brown ale (L° - 55)
8 oz flaked oats (not milled)
5 oz choc malt (L° - 350)
4 oz coffee malt (L° - 150)

Hops - 30 m. Each
2 oz fuggle,
2 oz UK Kent goldings

Yeast 2 PK Fermentis US-05

Fermenting at 72° F
(range allowed from 67-77)
It is still pretty warm in the south so mostly cooling for temp control. It can get up to 85 mid day and down to 60 at night.

Seems decent, but I'd skip the coffee malt, replace oats with crystal at 6% of the grist and ferment it with a more flavourful yeast.
If you are aiming for an English brown that is.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Keep it simple this is Double Maxim Brown ale 22 litres

Malts (4.6 kg)​

4.2 kg (91.3%) — Crisp Finest Maris Otter® Ale Malt — Grain — 3.3 SRM

200 g (4.4%) — Crisp Wheat Malt — Grain — 2.1 SRM — Mash — 60 min

100 g (2.2%) — Weyermann Chocolate Wheat — Grain — 510 SRM — Mash

100 g (2.2%) — Crisp Roast Barley — Grain — 700 SRM — Mash

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Brickfields Brown Ale 22 litres
4.2 kg (84%) — Crisp Finest Maris Otter® Ale Malt — Grain — 3.3 SRM

300 g (6%) — Crisp Amber Malt — Grain — 37 SRM

200 g (4%) — Crisp Dark Crystal 400 — Grain — 230 SRM

200 g (4%) — Crisp Naked Oat Malt — Grain — 2.5 SRM

100 g (2%) — Crisp Chocolate Malt — Grain — 530 SRM

 

[Willy]

Seems decent, but I'd skip the coffee malt, replace oats with crystal at 6% of the grist and ferment it with a more flavourful yeast.
If you are aiming for an English brown that is.

All excellent suggestions. Not going for traditional English Brown... This is designed for my palette. More of an Americanized, ahhh, this is what I like!!! Light Brown Ale.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Modern "Amber Ale" is often just bitter differently named to make it fashionable.

It's not really about fashion. Part of it is a perception is that the word "bitter" is not appealing at a time when people's tastes prefer something less bitter. But a lot of it is solving a problem for brewers in regions where bitter was traditionally brown rather than golden. As golden ales have become more popular, a lot of them have brought in golden ales under the same brand as their traditional bitters, but then that leaves them with the problem of how to describe the "original", and if you're describing the new one in colour terms it makes sense to do the same for the old one.

Boddies and Stones do not have this problem....

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

No-one drinks bitter any more. Rebranding it to sound like it's fashionable Golden Ale or Amber Ale helps it sell.

 

[balrog]

There's a saying in Germany that the craziest farmer has the biggest potatoes.

Its the most stupid farmers, not the most crazy farmers, to be precise.

"Die dümmsten Bauern haben die dicksten Kartoffeln."

Being of German heritage, and having taken two years of university German, I can honestly say that's the kewelest thing I've ever learned about the German language.

 

[Peebee]

A word from the stupid farmer?

...

Good grief. The"Spitfire" Golden/Amber arrangement I'd seen before; but going from one of the oldest English breweries to one of the newest breweries (I'm not counting all these fly-by-night UK "craft beer" breweries springing up all over the shop), if they can't see a point in keeping an "English Bitter" alive, what hope for "English Bitter" all around? Black Sheep split off from the family firm when Theakston's Brewery sold out to Keg Beer Giants, Scottish and Newcastle. Now, all happily back together again as an independent, "Black Sheep Ale" starts displaying its true "colours"? (Perhaps I'm losing touch with how things are going in darkest England as I'm confined to living in Wales now?).

Depressing.

And why do we British home-brewer's mash at pH5.2 now? Wasn't it always 5.4 at the low end? All the stuff I'd been doing with "water chemistry" answered that: JPs "Water" book to be precise. If you want to make pale beers suitable for keg you apparently aim for a lower pH (5.2, not 5.4). Traditional UK "Bitter", with its lack of carbonation and excessively robust "structure" ("structure" is a very telling - in my view - description taken from JP's "Water" book) appears to be only for old dinosaurs ... like me? I was very taken by JP's work on "water" and "residual alkalinity", aka. "RA" ... until I learnt what a load of ridiculous hokum is "RA" and the connection of mash pH and the colour of beer. "English" beers are dying out, as are old dinosaurs ... like me?

... Transfering that logic to homebrewing your beers must be feckin brilliant.

I'm also pretty good at self-destruction.

 

[Colindo]

if they can't see a point in keeping an "English Bitter" alive,

This is apparently a problem that has already spread throughout the UK https://zythophile.co.uk/2019/04/09...-the-beer-style-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/

JPs "Water" book to be precise. If you want to make pale beers suitable for keg you apparently aim for a lower pH (5.2, not 5.4).

Is that because the cask conditioning process lowers pH a bit? I have read before that British Cask Ale has the lowest pH of all beers, sometimes going down to 3.9.