English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Willy]

It makes sense to add sugar to prevent the Fuller's strain from leaving too much sweetness. I don't think it's necessary in the recipe in question, but sometimes it is nice to drop the 75% attenuation that Fuller's gives to 80%. This is even more true if one uses one of the dry yeast strains with 65% attenuation...

Sometimes I use a few drops of Brutzyme (cellar science) - which helps convert certain sugars to be more fermentable. So, attenuation goes up and you get a more dry and crisp ale. White Labs makes something like that too ... And I saw fermentis has a D16 yeast + enzyme product that can get 98-102% attenuation.

Personally I like most of my beers dry and crisp vs. sweet. But do what works for you.

 

[cire]

Just add more malt. I would be interested to see which British Bitter has sugar added these days.

Probably none, with the price of sugar likely two or three times the equivalent price of malt to a commercial brewery.

Today's beers are not like those with invert sugar, and I for one preferred them.

 

[Colindo]

Sometimes I use a few drops of Brutzyme (cellar science) - which helps convert certain sugars to be more fermentable. So, attenuation goes up and you get a more dry and crisp ale. White Labs makes something like that too ... And I saw fermentis has a D16 yeast + enzyme product that can get 98-102% attenuation.

Personally I like most of my beers dry and crisp vs. sweet. But do what works for you.

Hm, interesting point. I guess if you go that way you might as well use a diastaticus strain or a Belgian one with high attenuation...

 

[Miraculix]

Probably none, with the price of sugar likely two or three times the equivalent price of malt to a commercial brewery.

Today's beers are not like those with invert sugar, and I for one preferred them.

I also like invert bitters. It's a good thing when done right.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Probably none, with the price of sugar likely two or three times the equivalent price of malt to a commercial brewery.

Today's beers are not like those with invert sugar, and I for one preferred them.

Not so certain about that, Sam Smith has cane sugar as a listed ingredient on many ales, Tim Taylor most.
I think you can find quite a few traditional brewers who still use invert or some cane derived brewing sugar.

 

[DuncB]

or back sweeten it with a non fermentable to get it to style!!

 

[An Ankoù]

You can get pretty much any attenuation you like if you mash for it. I tend to leave my mash overnight so I always get good attenuation. Adding enzymes is a very blunt tool and will dry out the beer completely and I can't think of any British real ales that use a diastaticus variant yeast.
I made a beer once from the Durden Park cook book which contained an unusually high proportion of Amber malt. It was an acquired taste but I learned to love it. It left you thirstier than when you'd started!

 

[Brewer dad]

I’m planning a similar beer for the grain bill, but I am going to sub carastan for the crystal. It caught my eye on my last order so figured I’d give it a shot.

I have come to really love the versatility of these ales.

I'm planning a last-minute brew day with ingredients that I have on hand. Any suggestions or concerns?

Recipe: Bitter Memories

Batch Size (fermenter): 12.15 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 8.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.5 IBUs
Estimated ABV: 4.2%

Ingredients:
------------
17 lbs 13.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (60.0 SRM)
1.5 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM)
1.50 oz First Gold [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
2.00 oz First Gold [8.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins)
2.00 oz First Gold [8.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 min
1.0 pkg Pub (Imperial Yeast #A09)

Ca 212
Mg 3
Na 25
SO4 265
Cl 187

 

[Northern_Brewer]

or back sweeten it with a non fermentable to get it to style!!

You can get pretty much any attenuation you like if you mash for it. I tend to leave my mash overnight so I always get good attenuation. Adding enzymes is a very blunt tool and will dry out the beer completely and I can't think of any British real ales that use a diastaticus variant yeast.

People have to remember that British bitter has its origins in the original IPAs from Burton (Staffordshire), which had to be fermented right out (by diastatic Saccharomyces and/or Brett) before they travelled to India, as any residual sugar would allow fermentation to restart in the tropics, causing barrel bombs. And then people (and brewers!) decided they liked that flavour, because it encourages you to drink more, whereas sugar triggers satiety.

British beer is all about sessionability/drinkability and just generally about balance, which is why it's so depressing that so many US interpretations are flabby sweet messes. As the BJCP say, ordinary/best bitter has "Low to medium maltiness with a dry finish". I get that USians tend to visit the Thames Valley which is at one end of the spectrum - the Fuller's partigyle uses 7.2% light crystal which is plenty for my taste, but tourists tend not to visit northern parts where the Burton influence means members of the saison family are still quite common - which include WLP026 ("from Staffordshire", allegedly Marstons), WLP037 Yorkshire Square and WLP038 Manchester. One can assume there was something diastatic in the classic "Tadcaster" yeast blend that Boddies were using to get apparent attenuations pushing 92% in the 1970s.

This idea that typical British bitters are using Windsor-type yeasts to get <70% attenuation is just so wrong - Windsor was isolated from a multistrain that also included the precursor of Nottingham, which goes up to 84% on the Lallemand standard wort. Northern bitter at least, is deceptively simple, taut and precise - if it was music it would be that opening clarinet solo in Rhapsody in Blue. Too many people try to turn it into prog rock.

 

[Witherby]

Too many people try to turn it into prog rock.

I definitely don’t want the beer equivalent of this:

 

[tracer bullet]

Northern bitter at least, is deceptively simple, taut and precise

At the risk of sounding weird, I'll admit I always read your (and Cire's, and a few others there in the UK) posts at least twice, to get the inside scoop. I don't think I've ever seen you share a recipe. If you don't mind, would you give one that you brew that you think is representative of the style? Not to be evaluated or anything afterwards, but just so that I might try it for myself? I'm sure others would be interested to brew it as well.

 

[balrog]

satiety

I learnt a new word!

if it was music it would be that opening clarinet solo in Rhapsody in Blue. Too many people try to turn it into prog rock.

IMHO, you win the internet with this quote.
Congratulations.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Whatever NB is drinking I’ll have a pint.

 

[cire]

Well, as I was mentioned, here are my last 3 brews, two might be classed as a bitter, the middle one, recreation of a pale ale sold in Northern Workingmen's Clubs in years long gone.

The recipes are named for filing purposes by year-month-day, my manuscript brewing records have the beer name. Beer Engine was written by Graham Wheeler. It is old by current standards.

Solid Invert is that made by Ragus, the syrup is homemade, refined cane sugar simmered at pH 2.2 , then proportions of Muscovado, Molasses, Black Treacle or whatever added for the last 5 to 10 minutes.

The last recipe uses lager malt only because a full bag was to hand while my pale malt (GP) stock was dwindling.

My system is 3V, fly sparged to achieve > 90% extraction to max 5.6 pH. Hops are cones, pellets used only after boil so the cones filter them. Hops are sparged with hot boiled water, the extra wort is collected when cool and left to sediment hot and cold break. Clear wort is usually added when open fermentation begins. After yeast is top cropped, (2 to 3 days) the fermented wort will still be covered by a thin yeast layer and the lid fitted. Temperature is then raised to 23C if not already at that after free rise from 18, and left for another day or two before cooling to cellar temperature until a week after brew day.

 

[Shenanigans]

Two things don’t put sugar near a good bitter and two add more hops at 60 minutes. First gold is a great hop.

That's three things
Looking forward to trying out first gold when my order gets here. Took a week for them to dispatch, luckily I don't have time to brew until next month.

 

[An Ankoù]

I definitely don’t want the beer equivalent of this:
View attachment 868736

I think N B's onto something here. A distinct improvement on Gershwin's squeaky coffin hinges, I should say.

 

[Derp]

I think N B's onto something here. A distinct improvement on Gershwin's squeaky coffin hinges, I should say.

On my first read, I thought he mentioned "Kind of Blue" and was trying to place the clarinet solo.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll probably tweak my recipe accordingly.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Are we doing weird music now? How about the bastard child coming from an unholy union of Dream Theater and melodic black metal, with lyrical themes straight out of 1850's nature romanticism?

 

[HM-2]

I did not expect to see someone dropping Borknagar on this thread this evening.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I did not expect to see someone dropping Borknagar on this thread this evening.

For some reason they just resonate with me. I suppose it's because most of the places, natural cycles and wonder they refer to is what I live among and call home.

 

[HM-2]

For some reason they just resonate with me. I suppose it's because most of the places, natural cycles and wonder they refer to is what I live among and call home.

I was supposed to see them at ManorFestival back in 2022 but it ended up being cancelled.

 

[Witherby]

To get us back to the pub, here’s my recent ordinary bitter fermented with Windsor and Nottingham. After a few weeks in the fridge it cleared up quite nicely.

 

[Miraculix]

To get us back to the pub, here’s my recent ordinary bitter fermented with Windsor and Nottingham. After a few weeks in the fridge it cleared up quite nicely.

View attachment 868928

I'd certainly drink that!

 

[DuncB]

To get us back to the pub, here’s my recent ordinary bitter fermented with Windsor and Nottingham. After a few weeks in the fridge it cleared up quite nicely.

View attachment 868928

I'd drink the beer looks good.

You can keep the bar snacks though!

 

[DuncB]

This is a must watch.

 

[Brewer dad]

This is a must watch.

That was really cool, thanks for sharing it. I found the Timothy Taylor part especially interesting, I’ve brewed a clone of that beer twice but never had the real thing. I am going to incorporate some tidbits from this into English ale recipe I’ve been working on, will post it here for feedback soon.

 

[DuncB]

That was really cool, thanks for sharing it. I found the Timothy Taylor part especially interesting, I’ve brewed a clone of that beer twice but never had the real thing. I am going to incorporate some tidbits from this into English ale recipe I’ve been working on, will post it here for feedback soon.

Loved the TT part but also Thornbridge with the Burton Union system.
I'm currently fermenting using White labs burton ale yeast and it is a super thick and creamy barm. It's got me thinking could I make a union fermenter with a 40 litre firkin, some stainless steel sinks and some piping. I think so.
Starting the head scratching process.

 

[Brewer dad]

Ok here is where I’m at for a best bitter. Going for something with hair more alcohol than I’ve previously done(below is 4.6abv for me) and a bit of hop character.

5gal 75% efficiency

9lb Warminster Maris Otter(89.4%)
8oz Bairds Carastan(5%)
8oz Invert Sugar(5%)
1oz Bairds Black Malt(.6%)

Mash 154 single infusion

1oz Fuggles 60min
1oz Fuggles 30min
.5oz Fuggles 10min
.5oz EKG 10 min
.5oz EKG DH 2 days during cold crash

I’ve been using Wyeast Yorkshire a lot and am inclined to go with it again, but have not gotten as good fermentation flavor out of it last batch or two. I also have A09(fullers).

 

[schmurf]

This is a must watch.

Here's another interesting watch, a bit of history

 

[Shenanigans]

Hi All,

Even after reading about all the horror stories of stuck fermintations and diacetyl with WYEAST 1187 Ringwood I ordered a discounted pack today.
I'm a sucker for a deal.

I actually have it earmarked for an India Brown Ale recipe I usually brew with WLP005 but after a few gernerations the attenuation is going through the roof.
A new pack of WLP005 was more than twice the price so said I'd give the Ringwood a go.

Anyway, is there anyone on here that use this yeast and what are you brewing with it?

Thanks!

​

 

[Shenanigans]

Hi All,

Even after reading about all the horror stories of stuck fermintations and diacetyl with WYEAST 1187 Ringwood I ordered a discounted pack today.
I'm a sucker for a deal.

I actually have it earmarked for an India Brown Ale recipe I usually brew with WLP005 but after a few gernerations the attenuation is going through the roof.
A new pack of WLP005 was more than twice the price so said I'd give the Ringwood a go.

Anyway, is there anyone on here that use this yeast and what are you brewing with it?

Thanks!

​

Same goes for WYEAST 1099 Whitbread.
After a bit of research, it looks like it's the liquid version of Windsor with low attenuation.
So maybe a session English brown ale or a pale ale with some sort of sugar addition?

 

[DuncB]

Same goes for WYEAST 1099 Whitbread.
After a bit of research, it looks like it's the liquid version of Windsor with low attenuation.
So maybe a session English brown ale or a pale ale with some sort of sugar addition?

I have used 1099 a lot and have not found it anything like Windsor at all.
Attenuation is good, beer not super dry but clears well.

 

[elproducto]

I need to re-up my EKG stock, just wondering how the 2023 EKG crop was?

And alternatively, has anyone used US Goldings? Just wonder how they compare.

 

[HaveABeer]

Just got a ESB kit today...
6.6 Gold Liquid Malt Extract
1lb British Pale Grain M&F 2 row
1lb British Crystal Grain M&F
1oz Chinook
2oz Cascade
1tsp Irish Moss
White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast

3 time Best of Show winner.

 

[balrog]

According to this, they compare this way:

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

According to this, they compare this way:

View attachment 869749

So it's kinda the same but the US might be perceived as a wee bit more fruity?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And as some of you might remember, I have been trialing some good dry yeast and mixes of dry yeast for a good English character.
I thought I'd share my findings: what I've been doing lately is a 50/50 mix of some neutral attenuative English yeast and a non diastatic Belgian.

In my case MJ m42 and m47, you could likely use ordinary notty aswell but i find the MJ variety to have a tad bit more character and ability to control AA via mash temps.
Pitch cool and start fermentation at 17c and let free-rise to 20c.

 

[Shenanigans]

I have used 1099 a lot and have not found it anything like Windsor at all.
Attenuation is good, beer not super dry but clears well.

Nice, so I can't believe everything I read on an internet forum

What are the favourite beers you have brewed with it?
There are several old traditional ones on Barclayperkins including some pale ales and IPAs.

 

[Colindo]

@Shenanigans I cloned Sharp's Doom Bar once with 1099. Worked like a charm and it is very forgiving at higher temperatures (up to 25°C).
I've used 1187 several times for different beers. Can't say I ever noticed stuck fermentation or diacetyl, but then the former is mostly down to water treatment and protein rests in my opinion, rarely to yeast strain. And diacetyl will go as long as you do a secondary fermentation or just leave it a bit longer in the fermenter. 1187 gives apricot in my opinion, especially with a low pitch rate.

 

[Shenanigans]

@Shenanigans I cloned Sharp's Doom Bar once with 1099. Worked like a charm and it is very forgiving at higher temperatures (up to 25°C).
I've used 1187 several times for different beers. Can't say I ever noticed stuck fermentation or diacetyl, but then the former is mostly down to water treatment and protein rests in my opinion, rarely to yeast strain. And diacetyl will go as long as you do a secondary fermentation or just leave it a bit longer in the fermenter. 1187 gives apricot in my opinion, especially with a low pitch rate.

Thanks for the tip, Doom Bar sounds like a decent beer, found a recipe from Maltmiller and have everything here on hand once the yeast arrives.

For the German based lads you probably already know https://www.hobbybrauerversand.de/ have been taken over by Braumarkt and will close.

They are selling off some WYEAST packs that went out of date at the end of 2024 for about 50% of what you would pay for a new pack now.
I heard they are very slow at sending orders as they have limited staff and are occupied with moving location, but I ordered on Monday, and they are due to be delivered today so not too bad.
I took one of everything they had on discount except the 1332 Northwest Ale because that doesn't sound very good.