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It could very well be a blend of two finished beers. Greene King does or did something similar with an Old Ale that was matured and then blended with a younger ale before bottling. Newcastle Brown Ale is also said to once have been brewed like this.

I have some Broughton beer data in my copy of the 1992 Real Ale Almanac, but the names do not fit. They have an Old Jock, that is a proper Old Ale with 6.7% in there and an Oatmeal Stout and a Porter called Black Douglas. Might be that some of these are the same as the ones you search, but it could also be that my data is outdated.
 
It could very well be a blend of two finished beers. Greene King does or did something similar with an Old Ale that was matured and then blended with a younger ale before bottling. Newcastle Brown Ale is also said to once have been brewed like this.

I have some Broughton beer data in my copy of the 1992 Real Ale Almanac, but the names do not fit. They have an Old Jock, that is a proper Old Ale with 6.7% in there and an Oatmeal Stout and a Porter called Black Douglas. Might be that some of these are the same as the ones you search, but it could also be that my data is outdated.
That's true, didn't think of those ales, although I suppose on a homebrew scale mixing 2 worts is a more feasible option.
Old Jock was the name of stronger of the the beers in the blend, and I suppose their current Stout Jock is likely their current iteration of the Black Douglas or Oatmeal Stout.
I am not out to make an exact clone of the beer, just interested in trying a similair process and hopefully ending up with a beer that is somewhat similair to it.
 
Sure, especially for the first try you should go for the most simple attempt. Better safe than sorry. The advantage when blending finished ales is that you can create that matured character in the Old Ale. That will probably not work with pre-fermentation blending. It will however be interesting to see the result.

The Old Jock has the following data: OG 1.070, 6.7% ABV, 55 EBC, 30 IBU. Grist: Maris Otter, Maize and Roasted Barley (no precentages given). Target for bitterness, Fuggles and Goldings for aroma.
On their website, Broughton's specify First Gold, Fuggles and Perle as the hops.

Stout Jock is called an Oatmeal Stout on their website, so here goes: OG 1.045, 4.2% ABC, 170 EBC, 30 IBU. Grist: Maris Otter, Black Malt, Roasted Barley, Pinhead Oats. Same hops as for the Old Jock, with the website again specifying different ones.

I could not find any information on the Champion Double Ale. Where did you find those?
 
It could very well be a blend of two finished beers. Greene King does or did something similar with an Old Ale that was matured and then blended with a younger ale before bottling. Newcastle Brown Ale is also said to once have been brewed like this.

I have some Broughton beer data in my copy of the 1992 Real Ale Almanac, but the names do not fit. They have an Old Jock, that is a proper Old Ale with 6.7% in there and an Oatmeal Stout and a Porter called Black Douglas. Might be that some of these are the same as the ones you search, but it could also be that my data is outdated.
Any chance you have more info or links about GK and Newcastle blending? I would be very interested to read about it.
 
I recently listened to Chris Colby making up a recipe on Basic Brewing Radio. He posited that chocolate, roast barley and black patent all play well with each other for a nice melange. So, thought I would try it out...and here ya go.
89% MO
5% biscuit
2% Bairds chocolate
2% roasted barley
1.5% black patent

PS. Did my first brew of the year. Maybe in between a best and a porter? Dunno

PSS. Yet another homebrew supply shop done in by changing demographics and on-line supply shops. RIP Brewhouse Provisions (Redmond Washington)
 
I found it on one of my local systembolaget.
It's a bit hard to find info on the Double Ale, but I found this
https://hywelsbiglog.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/beer-review-broughton-champion-double-ale/
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/food-drink/were-brewing-up-storm-aldi-13459785
Seems it was made in some sort of collab with Aldi, and some export markets. It's a really nice ale so I hope it becomes part of their regular line-up.
I might rearrange the worts a bit, and make the wort 1 or the base wort larger and stronger, 2/3 of total and as a wort that would be ~1.070 after boil, and the stout 1/3 of total and as a would be ~1.050 post boil wort then blend it.
I will calculate more exactly to aim for a wort blend that will give me a ~1.060 final OG for the blended and boiled worts.
I will aim for a 70-low 70's AA so that should produce a ~5.5-ish% beer.

@Colindo
 
@Erik the Anglophile Lovely, thank you. I also recognised the labels yesterday and did try some of their beers before. I can get the standard varieties in a local craft beer shop specialising on British ales. Unfortunately however, even though Aldi is a German company, they do not sell the Double Ale here. Interesting to read though that the two beers are blended "in the final stages of fermentation", so either at the end of main fermentation or just before conditioning.
Any chance you have more info or links about GK and Newcastle blending? I would be very interested to read about it.
I'm pretty sure that @Northern_Brewer knows much more about the specifics of ale blending. I only noticed it when reading about other stuff. A recipe for Newcastle Brown Ale with blending is here: Newcastle Brown Ale Clone
The info about Greene King comes from the first paragraph of this article: Come-back for the Burtons
 
A question for the experts :p
I added a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity yeast to my last online order as it had a huge discount.

I'm not sure what I will use if for yet but the White Labs site says it's an English yeast.
I read it's associated with Tomas Hardy's Barleywine but is it normally only used to get good attenuation in a high gravity beer or would it be nice in a low/normal gravity British ale?
Of course it would work but I was just wondering if it has a nice flavour profile or if it would be better to spend my time brewing with the more popular strains like 1318, WLP007, 1469 .. etc?
Thanks for the feedback on this yeast.
Still undecided waht to do with it but have also read that it should be good for a Wee Heavy. Something I have never tried or brewed before.
 
Any chance you have more info or links about GK and Newcastle blending? I would be very interested to read about it.
Strong Suffolk is the one that GK is famous for blending, it's the one bit of "craft" that they maintain in an otherwise industrial setup. It's a ~6:1 blend of a Burton ale, BPA, and Old 5X, which is 12% ABV and aged in wooden vats for at least 2 years. I've not had the Suffolk, but weirdly I have had 5X at GBBF once.

They also put a little bit of 5X (must be single-digits %) into Old Speckled Hen to make Old Crafty Hen which is their more commercial beer found in supermarkets.

https://desdemoor.co.uk/greene-king-the-joy-of-5x/
It's been a while since Dog was blended and it was for a different purpose, Michael Jackson claimed that they needed a high-gravity component to get the esters that they couldn't get at low gravity, which was then blended with Amber Ale which was their regular low-ish gravity bitter. Original Dog could get over 6% - in a strong field of competitors, it is arguably the most abused brand name in "British" beer.
https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/3p7imypYfG/https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/05/newcastle-breweries-bottled-beers-in.html
 
My recipe for Old Jock
22 litres brew house efficiency 75%
5700g Maris otter
200g Crystal 140L
150g Melanoidin
65g Roasted Barley
23g First Gold @60m
20g EKG @15m
20g Fuggles @20m whirlpool @85C
Nottingham Ale yeast.
OG 1066
ABV 6.7%
 
IMG_20230327_095452750.jpg


From a 1995 publication by Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz.

From what I've read of the earlier period, the original Brown Ale may have be a creation towards the end of the 19th century, by blending a Mild Ale brewed by Barras with a Stock Ale (SA). Barras was a brewer in Newcastle whose business would eventually become one of a group to become Newcastle Breweries.

The Mild was brewed for Durham miners' consumption, the coal they mined, exported to London via the River Tyne. Stock Ale was brewed in these parts until the early sixties when it was 1085 OG, a base for blended beers in several breweries.
 
Thanks @Colindo @Northern_Brewer @cire these are great articles and recipes, much appreciated.

On another note, after living close to Bury for a couple years, I was one of those sitting in the Old Cannon and the beer house and mostly ignoring Greene king, now I wish I hadn't just to get a taste of 5X.
 
Went down to the brew fridge just a moment ago before driving off to work. There was a bit of yeast on the bottom of my FV and the krausen had receded a bit, so I clamped down the lid and put on an airlock.
Could probably have asked my wife to do it later today but I didn't want to take any chanses as it showed signs of slowing down...
 
Went down to the brew fridge just a moment ago before driving off to work. There was a bit of yeast on the bottom of my FV and the krausen had receded a bit, so I clamped down the lid and put on an airlock.
Could probably have asked my wife to do it later today but I didn't want to take any chanses as it showed signs of slowing down...
Sounds like well timed to me.
 
A yeast I don't see mentioned much here is WLP005.
A good 5 years ago I brewed some English IPAs and brown porters with it that turned out good.

On my last online order I picked up another pack at a major discount as it is a few months past it's use by date.
I would like to use if for some kind of English ale on my next brew day in a few weeks.
I already have an IPA planned in with Thames Valley yeast and have enough of Brown porter for the timebeeing.

Can anyone recommend another recipe with this yeast?
Something a bit hoppy like an ESB or golden ale.
I want to also use some Maris Otter as I oder it crushed by miske and want to use it up ASAP.
Was thinking of just doing a Fuller's ESB clone with WLP005 as the yeast.
I'll brew an India Brown Ale with it sometime too but at the moment I have too many black/brown beers on the go.

I was going through my old recipes searching for something to brew with Maris Otter as I have 5kg sitting around a few months that I ordered crushed by mistake and want to use it up before it gets old.

I found a recipe for Goose Island IPA based on one posted on Brewer's friend in 2012 before AB-Inbev took over and ruined it in Europe.
It's like an English/American hybrid recipe which is supposed to be brewed with WLP007/Wyeast 1098 but I brewed it with WLP005 in the past and it turned out very nice. I will brew it again this weekend and see what it's like from the keg as last time I could only package in bottles.
I'll also do some water adjustments as 7 or 8 years ago I didn't have any experience with that.

I added a bit more cascade in the dry hop, because I can :p

1680077161612.png
 
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@Shenanigans
I used the WLP099 in a Thomas Hardys ale barleywine clone following the @ronpatto recipe on shut up about barclay perkins.

Made a big starter stepped up to final volume of 6.5 litres in the fermentasaurus, conveniently the stir bar and stirrer fitted nicely on the stand and then when complete I stood it up and the yeast dropped into the collecting bowl. The Fermentasaurus was open for air exchange during the growth stage.
Very impressive krausen on the beer within 24 hours in the ferment fridge which lasted several days. No chance of contamination with this as an example of safe open ferment arrangement. No tea towel used at all. Harveys in Sussex don't cover their open fermenters with a clean tea towel!
See latest Get er brewed video for a great tour of Harveys brewery.


The remaining yeast in the fermentasaurus after taking off the starter volume in the bottle I pitched the partigyle 1.041 bitter onto and that was good at 18C ramped to 22.

Fermentasaurus starter.jpgSettling the starter.jpg

rocky.jpg
 
I was going through my old recipes searching for something to brew with Maris Otter as I have 5kg sitting around a few months that I ordered crushed by mistake and want to use it up before it gets old.

I found a recipe for Goose Island IPA based on one posted on Brewer's friend in 2012 before AB-Inbev took over and ruined it in Europe.
It's like an English/American hybrid recipe which is supposed to be brewed with WLP007/Wyeast 1098 but I brewed it with WLP005 in the past and it turned out very nice. I will brew it again this weekend and see what it's like from the keg as last time I could only package in bottles.
I'll also do some water adjustments as 7 or 8 years ago I didn't have any experience with that.

I added a bit more cascade in the dry hop, because I can :p

View attachment 816341
I love Goose Island what water profile do you use? Thanks.
 
That is a beautiful kräusen!
That's barm, not kräusen! ;)

But it's a good reminder of what people mean when they refer to ale yeasts as "top-fermenting". I've seen some posts lately where people are almost scared of a proper top-fermenting yeast, they're so used to yeast lab strains that have adapted to life in conicals. So here's a reminder of what proper yeast looks like in Yorkshire squares, from Tim Taylor, Sam Smith and a fishtail in action on the round squares at Black Sheep :

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@Shenanigans
I used the WLP099 in a Thomas Hardys ale barleywine clone following the @ronpatto recipe on shut up about barclay perkins.

Made a big starter stepped up to final volume of 6.5 litres in the fermentasaurus, conveniently the stir bar and stirrer fitted nicely on the stand and then when complete I stood it up and the yeast dropped into the collecting bowl. The Fermentasaurus was open for air exchange during the growth stage.
Very impressive krausen on the beer within 24 hours in the ferment fridge which lasted several days. No chance of contamination with this as an example of safe open ferment arrangement. No tea towel used at all. Harveys in Sussex don't cover their open fermenters with a clean tea towel!
See latest Get er brewed video for a great tour of Harveys brewery.


The remaining yeast in the fermentasaurus after taking off the starter volume in the bottle I pitched the partigyle 1.041 bitter onto and that was good at 18C ramped to 22.

View attachment 816378View attachment 816379

View attachment 816380

Thanks for the info.
Looks crazy o_O
Unfortunately I'm not so well equipt like you but I'm sure I could put together some kind of monster starter.
One of the recipies I read mentions a 4 hour boil.
That would be one expensive brew with the price of malt and energy these days.
 
I love Goose Island what water profile do you use? Thanks.
Last time I brewed it I just use my tap water as I didn't know anything about water treatment then.

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This weekend I will use a similar profile to the one suggested on the recipe page

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Hopefully you are still getting the original American recipe wherever you are.
Here I can only get it when I pop across the border to The Netherlands and it's brewed in Belgium.
Tastes like a soapy warm fermented lager with a bit of extra hop extract added to it. :barf:
 
That's barm, not kräusen!
What is the difference? In German, kräusen means the build-up of yeast on the top of the wort, or more precisely the action of the yeast that leads to that build-up. How is it used in English?

Amazing pictures btw. There is a wheat beer brewery in Germany called Schneider who ferment in a way that appears to me to be remarkably British: Open fermentation and conditioning in the keg with live yeast. They get similar barm as in your pictures. You can find their brewery tour on Youtube.
 
There is a wheat beer brewery in Germany called Schneider who ferment in a way that appears to me to be remarkably British: Open fermentation and conditioning in the keg with live yeast. They get similar barm as in your pictures. You can find their brewery tour on Youtube.
I'll look it up tonight thank you.
 
What is the difference? In German, kräusen means the build-up of yeast on the top of the wort, or more precisely the action of the yeast that leads to that build-up.
I'm messing with you because it's an English yeast, suggesting you use what is effectively the British English equivalent rather than the German word that has been borrowed by American English.

But "barm" *is" the yeast in the Anglo-Norse view of the world, rather than the action of the yeast. It's a bit old-fashioned, you only see it commonly used outside the traditional breweries in the phrase "barm cake", which is the Lancashire name for a bread roll/cob/bap.* But it clearly has the same origin as "berm" which is what people around the Skagerrak (Denmark/Southern Sweden/Telemark) call their yeast instead of kveik.

*the ethnography of naming small lumps of bread in the UK, particularly northern England, is fascinating. It's perhaps the most sensitive way other than accent to work out where someone was brought up.

1680267197390.png
 
@Northern_Brewer Thanks for the heads up. I'm no fan of using foreign words in any language, so barm it shall be henceforth. I have to be honest that I never read this word before, not even in British literature. Also thanks for the ethymology, always nice to widen one's horizon.
 
@Northern_Brewer Thanks for the heads up. I'm no fan of using foreign words in any language, so barm it shall be henceforth. I have to be honest that I never read this word before, not even in British literature.
As I say, it's somewhat old-fashioned - as is using proper top-cropping yeast. But you could argue that it's just as foreign as kräusen, it's just crossed the North Sea earlier. But the dominance of American influence in modern brewing culture means that the modern generation of British brewers end up using American brewing terms, which often reflect the Continental influence on US brewing - kräusen rather than barm, foeders rather than vats and so on. We're still holding out on Plato vs specific gravity though!

So it is sort of dying out other than in the traditional breweries that have top-cropping yeast, but its use goes back to before Shakespeare. See Act 2 of Midsummer Night's Dream, "that shrewd and knavish sprite called Robin ('robbing') Goodfellow" who would be blamed for everything that went wrong on a farm, including "sometime make the drink to bear no barm". So next time your yeast is dead or you get a stuck fermentation, it's not your fault, blame Robin Goodfellow!
 
Graham Wheeler’s recipe has Black Malt so it must be right.😀


Graham used small quantities of Black Malt in his recipes to compensate for color from invert sugars. In the book with Graham's recipe for Landlord there is a section on Brewing Sugars and to quote from that:-

In this book the recipes have been reformulated to do away with specialist sugars because of the difficulties obtaining them through home-brewing sources.

There is no black malt in Landlord made by Timothy Taylor. There is Invert sugar.
 
@Northern_Brewer Thanks for the heads up. I'm no fan of using foreign words in any language, so barm it shall be henceforth. I have to be honest that I never read this word before, not even in British literature. Also thanks for the ethymology, always nice to widen one's horizon.
Growing up in Lancashire in the 60s and 70s we called a certain type of soft bread roll a barm cake. Traditionally made with skimmed brewing yeast, hence the name. You can still buy them, they are often used for bacon breakfast 'butties', chip shops will make you a chip barm, and burger stalls often put burgers in them. People don't seem to say barm cake quite as much now though, despite eating them.

From Wikipedia
A barm cake is a soft, round, flattish bread roll from North West England, traditionally leavened with barm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ing-is-spreading-say-researchers-8985889.html
 
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Growing up in Lancashire in the 60s and 70s we called a certain type of soft bread roll a barm cake. Traditionally made with skimmed brewing yeast, hence the name. You can still buy them, they are often used for bacon breakfast 'butties', chip shops will make you a chip barm, and burger stalls often put burgers in them. People don't seem to say barm cake quite as much now though, despite eating them.

From Wikipedia
A barm cake is a soft, round, flattish bread roll from North West England, traditionally leavened with barm.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ing-is-spreading-say-researchers-8985889.html
I'm messing with you because it's an English yeast, suggesting you use what is effectively the British English equivalent rather than the German word that has been borrowed by American English.

But "barm" *is" the yeast in the Anglo-Norse view of the world, rather than the action of the yeast. It's a bit old-fashioned, you only see it commonly used outside the traditional breweries in the phrase "barm cake", which is the Lancashire name for a bread roll/cob/bap.* But it clearly has the same origin as "berm" which is what people around the Skagerrak (Denmark/Southern Sweden/Telemark) call their yeast instead of kveik.

*the ethnography of naming small lumps of bread in the UK, particularly northern England, is fascinating. It's perhaps the most sensitive way other than accent to work out where someone was brought up.

View attachment 816455

Another article on various bread names in England, including barms:
Bun! A Taxonomy of the British Bread Roll — Pellicle

While we are on the theme of English brewing terms, St. Mars of the Desert (SMOD) in Sheffield* recently posted a nice article on the history of cooling trays (which they refuse to call coolships since they were traditionally called flat coolers in England):
THE KOELSHIP: A FLAT COOLER FOR ALL OCCASIONS

*Formerly of Pretty Things in Boston, MA where they were my favorite brewery a decade ago. They did many collaborations with Ron Pattinson back then. Good times.
 
I'm flying back to Ireland for a short trip later this month and was looking into sourcing some Lyle's golden syrup and found this :ghostly: :

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Shame I'm limited to only 10Kg on the Ryanair flight :rolleyes:
Probably also still a bit overpriced compared to the UK though.
 
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Shame I'm limited to only 10Kg on the Ryanair flight :rolleyes:
Probably also still a bit overpriced compared to the UK though.
It's not too bad - although if you're going for size then you might as well buy a block of invert for £50/25kg even if you have to smash it up and bring it back in multiple loads! I'm sure someone like Geterbrewed could get some in for you given enough notice....
 
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