English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Erik the Anglophile]

My latest bitter, reminds me a little bit of TT's Boltmaker. Will probably clear up a little bit in the coming days.
1.041-1.008 and 35 IBU.

 

[Witherby]

In this kind of situation whenever you're making a beer from a particular country, think what a brewer from that country would do. Which in general would not involve "foreign" ingredients, and for British beer in particular it's generally a terrible idea to try to adjust colour using "flavour" ingredients - if you don't have brewer's caramel or touch of black, then forget about trying to hit a colour target. And diluting the Otter is not going to help with maltiness...

[I wrote most of the following before the thread turned to these topics, but I didn't post it]
The main cause of "thinness" is kegging - it really doesn't suit British beers, certainly not in the <4.5% range that are normally served on cask in pubs. CO2 is the fifth ingredient in beer, and like everything else in British styles, it has to be in balance with the other ingredients. I recently had a keg mild from Cloudburst (which for those who don't know is a bit of a hype brewery, got "best smallish brewery" at 2021 GABF etc - their IPAs are terrific) and you could tell there was a decent beer trying to get out, but it was completely swamped by the carbonation - felt like it was probably the end of a keg, it was more than just the usual over carbonation). So you need balanced carbonation - and the fine mousse of natural carbonation is part of the nature of these beers. Think of the flabby bubbles of Coke versus the mousse of nitro Guinness - Guinness overeggs the carbonation because it's part of its "thing", and nitro bubbles aren't quite the same, but for those who haven't had real cask then imagining nitro Guinness with about half the gas will give you a target to go for. At least for northern beer served through a sparkler, it's different in the south....

And don't be afraid of dryness, that's what keeps you coming back for the 5th and 6th pint, whereas sweetness sates you. It's one of those great myths in the US, that British beers are syrupy sweet, while that may be true of half-conditioned beers in Heathrow Wetherspoons, it's not the reality.

Yeasts like Windsor being available for sale don't help - but people forget that Windsor was never used on its own, it came from a multistrain that included a Nottingham-like strain to get the attenuation up - and that wasn't even in the North proper. Pre-racking gravities can be a bit misleading, but eg Ron Pattinson had a table of 1960s keg bitters that averaged 80% apparent attenuation, and of course there's the famous example of 1970s Boddies that was over 91% and is mourned as a legendary example of bitter.



Oh no - different in almost every way, different water, different yeast, less crystal, everything. People don't realise how much regional variation there is in British beer, tourists tend to think everywhere is like the Thames Valley when it's if anything a bit of an outlier. Remember that Burton was obsessed with high attenuation, to minimise residual fermentables that might ferment in tropical weather en route to India and cause "barrel bombs" on a ship. Obviously pre-ageing in barrels infected with Brett etc was part of the story, but there's a lot of members of the saison family used in northern England, particularly in Yorkshire squares. You get a really distorted view of British yeast from the US yeast labs but you only have to look at the Brewlab catalogue to see that maybe 40-50% of their descriptions mention some kind of phenolic character, which probably means at least one saison-type yeast in there.

Certainly you can taste the phenols in eg Sam Smiths cask OBB, and in good pints of Harvey's Best - the Harvey's yeast originated at John Smith's and has had a saison-type yeast isolated from it.

Talking of Brewlab yeasts, Malt Miller have *finally* started stocking their slopes, at £6.99 compared to £9 for White Labs/Wyeast - hopefully that should encourage a few more people to use them, but it is a question of use them or lose them!

And to prove maybe all of your points, here is the recipe of the best bitter that won the “Pale British Beer” category at the 2022 US National Homebrew Competition.

The key to winning a competition is brewing a beer that wows the judges with a few sips. A proper judging would require multiple pints of each beer.

I will hopefully have my new caskerator (with a sparkler) up and running by next week, but sadly the (keg conditioned) best bitter I brewed for my home brew club’s best bitter competition will have to be served from a growler since I didn’t bottle any.

 

[Colindo]

@Northern_Brewer Thanks for the many details you gave. I was mulling things over for a day and while I see the phenolic character in some Northern English yeasts and know of their relationship to Belgian yeasts, I was more interested in the attenuation difference. I know some breweries like Theakston use a double strain where one strain is particularly attenuating, but so does Adnam's and they are not in Northern England. So where is the trend there? Yes, Tetley seems to have an incredibly high attenuation. But Boddington, who also are known for extra high attenuation, only got there after receiving yeast from Tadcaster. So is the high attenuation just a Yorkshire thing and not representative for the rest of Northern England?

Then we come to the crystal malt usage gradient, which I'm not buying at all. If you use Fuller's as the crystal-heavy example (which because of the parti-gyle did not show in their now discontinued bitter), then you end up with a inside London to outside London gradient. Not North to South. Also I would think of London as part of the South, rather as an individual brewing area with its own style. Also Fuller's used only 5% Crystal in 2010 (see Brewing Network podcast) and only 3% Crystal in 1992 (see Real Ale Almanac), which does not really speak of a traditional style difference, but rather a modern trend.

Just to explain why I'm asking so much: I was recently asked to handle the British Beer tasting at the German homebrew convention and would like to present some hard facts, possibly including a North-South gradient in attenuation. But after having thought just last year that I understood the varieties of Brown Ale and using the phrase "Northern / Southern Brown Ale" only to find out that that is complete horseshit, I am now more cautious.
At least I was able to select the bottled beers myself and might be able to bring a fresh bitter in a mini-keg from the UK, so the tasting will not be completely invalidated by the poor quality of the bottled beers. While the Northern beers are not as overly sweet, they are still lacking significantly behind the cask version, much more than I would expect from just a change of dispense. Is it the pasteurisation?

I tried a lot of British beers from cask so far. Last June I had a Landlord and an Old Peculier in the Peak District, both phenomenal beers. The worst I had there was Tetley's Bitter and Marston's Pedigree, both of which tasted watery. The very best pint there was an Abbeydale Daily Bread.
In the South I was a regular drinker of Ringwood's Best Bitter back when I studied there. I also had a pint from Hall & Woodhouse two years ago, which I found passable. Otter Ale is exceptional, only had it once unfortunately.
I have to chide you for not drinking Southern beer in the South. I always drink local!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

And to prove maybe all of your points, here is the recipe of the best bitter that won the “Pale British Beer” category at the 2022 US National Homebrew Competition.

View attachment 812116

Oh dear - where to begin? Even if you believe BJCP is God this is out of specification with too much bitterness (BJCP dictate 25-40 IBU) and too sweet (FG 1.008-12).

And whilst I like my beer on the bitter side, a BU/GU of 1.0 is too high, the balance won't be right. 27% speciality malts, 4 out of 5 ingredients not British, rye is pretty seldom used (and generally only in conjunction with Goldings IME), 71% attenuation from the world's most boring English yeast WLP002, Fuggle may be to style but is personally my least favourite hop for bitter - and kegged.

Never mind Best Bitter, this is more like my idea of Worst Bitter. OK, that's glib and unfair, but you know what I mean.

I'd love to see what would happen if you submitted bottles of eg Landlord (4-time Champion Beer of Britain, albeit on cask, and one of the BJCP's official examples of the style) for judging in the US.

 

[balrog]

Yes, yes, very nice. But tell us what you really think.

 

[Brewskey]

Oh dear - where to begin? Even if you believe BJCP is God this is out of specification with too much bitterness (BJCP dictate 25-40 IBU) and too sweet (FG 1.008-12).

And whilst I like my beer on the bitter side, a BU/GU of 1.0 is too high, the balance won't be right. 27% speciality malts, 4 out of 5 ingredients not British, rye is pretty seldom used (and generally only in conjunction with Goldings IME), 71% attenuation from the world's most boring English yeast WLP002, Fuggle may be to style but is personally my least favourite hop for bitter - and kegged.

Never mind Best Bitter, this is more like my idea of Worst Bitter. OK, that's glib and unfair, but you know what I mean.

I'd love to see what would happen if you submitted bottles of eg Landlord (4-time Champion Beer of Britain, albeit on cask, and one of the BJCP's official examples of the style) for judging in the US.

Maybe he was cleaning out the cupboard on brew day?

 

[balrog]

the world's most boring English yeast WLP002

But in all seriousness, given this one particular callout, and given the BYO article suggesting "Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire Ale) or White Labs WLP037 (Yorkshire Square Ale) or Lallemand Windsor Ale yeast", what yeast would you use?

 

[DuncB]

I like them.
You probably cant get these candies in the US but in the dry hop it reminds me a bit of fruit salad sweets I used to eat as a kid.
A bitter sweet lemon taste.

I've used them for bittering and thought they were quite smooth but that was always in reasonably highly hopped beers like Raging Bitch when I didnt have any Nugget.

View attachment 811981

Do you unwrap them or just let them dissolve in the hop spider and pick out the wrappers afterwards!

 

[Shenanigans]

Do you unwrap them or just let them dissolve in the hop spider and pick out the wrappers afterwards!

You know what I meant
I was also a Bass Shandy drinker as a child.
I loved the stuff but not sure if there was some Target in there.

 

[Pennine]

Oh dear - where to begin? Even if you believe BJCP is God this is out of specification with too much bitterness (BJCP dictate 25-40 IBU) and too sweet (FG 1.008-12).

And whilst I like my beer on the bitter side, a BU/GU of 1.0 is too high, the balance won't be right. 27% speciality malts, 4 out of 5 ingredients not British, rye is pretty seldom used (and generally only in conjunction with Goldings IME), 71% attenuation from the world's most boring English yeast WLP002, Fuggle may be to style but is personally my least favourite hop for bitter - and kegged.

Never mind Best Bitter, this is more like my idea of Worst Bitter. OK, that's glib and unfair, but you know what I mean.

I'd love to see what would happen if you submitted bottles of eg Landlord (4-time Champion Beer of Britain, albeit on cask, and one of the BJCP's official examples of the style) for judging in the US.

Be nice... landlord is delicious in the bottle too.

 

[Colindo]

Be nice... landlord is delicious in the bottle too.

I was actually quite disappointed when I tried it from the bottle, before finding it on cask. By far less good than homebrewed.

 

[christoffhawkins]

You can’t beat a pint of Good Old Timothy Taylors landlord

 

[Pennine]

I was actually quite disappointed when I tried it from the bottle, before finding it on cask. By far less good than homebrewed.

Do you have a recipe you can share?

I was teasing in that comment, I agree much better in cask.

 

[eshea3]

Talking of Brewlab yeasts, Malt Miller have *finally* started stocking their slopes, at £6.99 compared to £9 for White Labs/Wyeast - hopefully that should encourage a few more people to use them, but it is a question of use them or lose them!

They've just posted a video on YouTube on building a starter from the slopes.

 

[eshea3]

My latest bitter, reminds me a little bit of TT's Boltmaker. Will probably clear up a little bit in the coming days.
1.041-1.008 and 35 IBU.

Lanlord gets the most publicity, but Boltmaker is an awesome beer and I actually prefer it. Don't often find it around Nottingham

 

[Witherby]

Lanlord gets the most publicity, but Boltmaker is an awesome beer and I actually prefer it. Don't often find it around Nottingham

I had a lovely pint of Boltmaker in the York Tap at the York train station. Anyone know when the name changed from Best Bitter to Boltmaker?

But I did drink many more pints of Landlord. No regrets!

 

[Colindo]

Do you have a recipe you can share?

I was teasing in that comment, I agree much better in cask.

Yes, the recipe is quite well known. 100% Golden Promise, with a bit of black malt added during sparging to achieve colour. Bittered with Fuggle and Golding 1:1 for 30 IBU. Aroma hopping is Savinjski Golding in the last 10 minutes. Yeast is WY1469 at 21°C-22°C.
I made a video about this recipe together with Theakston Old Peculier, though the Theakston recipe was not very accurate:

 

[Brewskey]

Yes, the recipe is quite well known. 100% Golden Promise, with a bit of black malt added during sparging to achieve colour. Bittered with Fuggle and Golding 1:1 for 30 IBU. Aroma hopping is Savinjski Golding in the last 10 minutes. Yeast is WY1469 at 21°C-22°C.
I made a video about this recipe together with Theakston Old Peculier, though the Theakston recipe was not very accurate:

Do you think there would be some invert in Landlord? I just brewed one a few days ago with 90% Golden Promise, 10% No. 1 and a little caramel color at flameout. Their website lists sugar in the ingredients but I guess that could be priming sugar, I'm not sure. I subscribed to your channel a while back, nice work with all the clone recipes.

 

[schmurf]

Do you think there would be some invert in Landlord? I just brewed one a few days ago with 90% Golden Promise, 10% No. 1 and a little caramel color at flameout. Their website lists sugar in the ingredients but I guess that could be priming sugar, I'm not sure. I subscribed to your channel a while back, nice work with all the clone recipes.

The Malt Millers version of Landlord is Golden Promise, Wheat and a touch of Black Malt, but I don't know how accurate it is to the original.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I have heard from multiple sources, including a rep from TT, that landlord is brewed with GP, a bit of invert and a handful of black malt in the sparge.

 

[balrog]

Ah, just what I like to see, specific amounts in reproducible measurements.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

But trial and error is where all the fun and joy is!

 

[balrog]

I am a duly card carrying member of Perfectionists Anonymous. And yes, as I finished typing that joke I realized the contrary juxtaposition of diametrically opposite thoughts being superimposed in one sentence. And yes, I'm a member of Bloviator's Anonymous as well.

Anyway, given that I have a dozen 325g bottles of Lyle's Golden, I'm just gonna go ahead and call "a bit" = 325g, in a 5 gal batch. I'll have to get back to you on the conversion of a handful.

 

[Miraculix]

5% invert plus enough black to bring the colour into the right region... something around 30g-40g should be ok.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I often do around 0.5-1g/L black malt in the sparge to just get a little deeper colour.

 

[bellhp]

Brewed my first test batch of Best bitterish beer today . Was thinking of ordering some golden syrup and seeing what it brings to the party in the next batch . And to Eric the Anglophile's remark about Black malt ... is that to promote clarity , reduce chill haze you recon? Don't think It will add a whole bunch of color in the sparge , yes?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Just to get a little copper hue, I usually mash out and sparge in a combined step. IME it adds about as much colour as the same amount would in the mash, but with less flavour impact.

 

[eshea3]

I have heard from multiple sources, including a rep from TT, that landlord is brewed with GP, a bit of invert and a handful of black malt in the sparge.

AFAIR, Taylor's have always advertised Landlord as 100% Golden Promise. If you check their ingredients list, in addition to malt they have listed sugar. So in my last few batches of my "clone" Ive just used 1# of #3 invert. I suspect there may be some other process things like length of boil or addition of caramel that would provide the color but let them use just the Golden Promise. There may also be something about the malting process that provides some or all of the color since they state that the GP is malted to their specs.

Also on the subject of color, I recently heard a English brewer on a podcast saying that the color of his Porter came from chocolate malt and something called a robar. Not sure about that spelling, but is anyone familiar with this?

 

[balrog]

I'll toss some Carafa or BlackPrinz or midnight wheat or something debittered in for color.

 

[shoreman]

Brewed this beer from the Camra BYO British Real Ale. This is a the recipe of Haviestoun Ptarmigan Golden ale, a Scottish Brewery. I dropped a couple of malts (black and crystal) as their recipe on their website was updated from the book. Very tasty and clearing up nicely. Bottle conditioned.