English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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This was another good beer held back from being great by my use of Fuggles. This is what cemented my dislike of that variety.

I've found myself iffy on it as well. It wasn't for an ESB though, I was using it in a porter recipe. But to be fair I was changing up the yeast and the hops at the same time.

I think I see Fuggles used in the Fuller's porter, which I think is delicious. Not sure what yeast is used or what would be equivalent. So I'm thinking of brewing my next porter with Fuggles and perhaps the Wyeast 1968 ESB, a combo I haven't run before.

I guess I'm thinking out loud - skip Fuggles in an ESB but perhaps consider it for a porter?

 

[user 263363]

I've found myself iffy on it as well. It wasn't for an ESB though, I was using it in a porter recipe. But to be fair I was changing up the yeast and the hops at the same time.

I think I see Fuggles used in the Fuller's porter, which I think is delicious. Not sure what yeast is used or what would be equivalent. So I'm thinking of brewing my next porter with Fuggles and perhaps the Wyeast 1968 ESB, a combo I haven't run before.

I guess I'm thinking out loud - skip Fuggles in an ESB but perhaps consider it for a porter?

I think in a beer like a Porter, the variety of hops is less important, to a degree. Obviously, any late additions you wouldn’t want to use something like Citra or Amarillo but I think using Fuggles or EKG will be much less noticeable in a beer such as that.

 

[cire]

I think in a beer like a Porter, the variety of hops is less important, to a degree. Obviously, any late additions you wouldn’t want to use something like Citra or Amarillo but I think using Fuggles or EKG will be much less noticeable in a beer such as that.

Indeed, and I'd even go a step further to suggest that a decent Porter or Stout isn't necessarily improved by late addition hops. On a personal view, I'd not use hops like Citra and Amarillo in any Porter.

 

[tracer bullet]

I think we are all very much in agreement on Citra or Amarillo or the like in Porters!

I've used EKG a few times as a very late / whirlpool type addition and really liked it. It fades over a month or so but I actually think I prefer the porter with it. It's that little extra thing in addition to what the various malts bring. Still a great beer without it but I do get just a little disappointed when it fades. Late Fuggles certainly did not bring that same happiness.

 

[eshea3]

I'd use a yeast with a little more character, and use either special roast or biscuit, prefferably real Brittish amber malt.

+1 on the amber

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I think a modest late addition is something that can be nice in a porter or stout, Fuggle I personally enjoy for their slightly "woody" flavour they can bring to the table in beers of that type.
Lots of the porter recipes found on Ron's blog often have a sizeable 30 min addition, sometimes dry hopped aswell...
I have a bitter that only has Fuggle as late hops on tap now, and the hop flavour clashes a little with what I want in a pale beer, mixed with EKG Fuggle is wonderful in bitters though, but try it on its own in a dark beer and see if you like it better that way.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Fuggles isn't for everyone. EKG is at least non offensive to most, and perferred by many.

You can also try doing a "suicide" with a bunch of different English hops to get an "average" flavour. Tony's Pre-1970's Boddington uses quite a mix, and when I brew it I use a dog's breakfast of whatever is in the freezer (First Gold, EKG, Styrian, Fuggles, N Brewer, ad nauseum). The Fuggles seem to blend in to a mix pretty nicely whilst you might like it as a SMASHY.

 

[cire]

Fuggles isn't for everyone. EKG is at least non offensive to most, and perferred by many.

You can also try doing a "suicide" with a bunch of different English hops to get an "average" flavour. Tony's Pre-1970's Boddington uses quite a mix, and when I brew it I use a dog's breakfast of whatever is in the freezer (First Gold, EKG, Styrian, Fuggles, N Brewer, ad nauseum). The Fuggles seem to blend in to a mix pretty nicely whilst you might like it as a SMASHY.

Any finding Fuggle not for them might try Celeia as another option. That is a Fuggle, but grown in Slovenia with a different and maybe more consistent, climate. If you have Fuggles that don't fit, then maybe use them early for bittering with another for Aroma, like Bobek or Hallertau Hersbrucker/Traditional/Mittlefruh. Saaz makes a good aroama addition in British beers, as do USA grown Liberty and Ultra. Presently a lot of British Beers use Challenger or Brewers Gold for bittering adding late, delicate and frequently continental, hops for aroma.

Charles Faram supplies many British breweries with hops and it may be worth examination their variety technical knowledge.

 

[Miraculix]

I never brewed with fuggles. Now that I read so much about it here, I should do a smash with it to see where we are at.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've got a bunch of French Fuggle. Brewed a grisette with it; bittering, 15m, dry hop. Hoping to bottle tonight.

 

[eshea3]

Any finding Fuggle not for them might try Celeia as another option. That is a Fuggle, but grown in Slovenia with a different and maybe more consistent, climate. If you have Fuggles that don't fit, then maybe use them early for bittering with another for Aroma, like Bobek or Hallertau Hersbrucker/Traditional/Mittlefruh. Saaz makes a good aroama addition in British beers, as do USA grown Liberty and Ultra. Presently a lot of British Beers use Challenger or Brewers Gold for bittering adding late, delicate and frequently continental, hops for aroma.

Charles Faram supplies many British breweries with hops and it may be worth examination their variety technical knowledge.

Willamette is a Fuggles offspring as well. I'll also recommend Stocks Farm for UK hops. Limited variety but very fresh

 

[warx]

I was in the Willamette Valley this week talking with a brewer of British ales and he mentioned Crystal hops which I was not even aware of. I might check them out.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I was in the Willamette Valley this week talking with a brewer of British ales and he mentioned Crystal hops which I was not even aware of. I might check them out.

This recipe features a blend of Crystal and Liberty. UK malt bill with American hopping. It was really tasty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/make-your-best-american-brown-ale/

 

[Miraculix]

This recipe features a blend of Crystal and Liberty. UK malt bill with American hopping. It was really tasty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/make-your-best-american-brown-ale/

A bit much crystal for my liking, especially considering the low attenuating yeast and the relatively high og (from a British viewpoint). I think I would dump the cara munich and lower the og to 1.045. maybe I would add some medium invert. The choice of hops sounds interesting to me.

 

[DBhomebrew]

A bit much crystal for my liking, especially considering the low attenuating yeast and the relatively high og (from a British viewpoint). I think I would dump the cara munich and lower the og to 1.045. maybe I would add some medium invert. The choice of hops sounds interesting to me.

I was referring to the Crystal hops and to be fair to Weikert, it is an American Brown. I agree, too much crystal/Cara malt for me. The second time brewing the recipe I used 1028 which gave a nicer, drier balance.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Any finding Fuggle not for them might try Celeia as another option. That is a Fuggle, but grown in Slovenia with a different and maybe more consistent, climate.

No it's not. Celeia is a triploid daughter of a tetraploid Savinjski Golding and the 105/58 male, which in turn is the son of Aurora and a Slovenian wild male.

It's Savinjski that is (probably) a Fuggle clone.

Willamette is a triploid resulting from a cross between tetraploid Fuggle (USDA 21003) and Fuggle seedling 2-4.

I guess this year the intense sun in August will push English Fuggles in more of a Styrian/Willamette direction, more lemony rather than earthy.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Took a gravity sample of the brown ale today, it had gone 1.044-1.009 so the Verdant/Liberty Bell mix seem to produce a rather attenuative yeast... The mash temp was 67c.
Might want to mash closer to 70c for those beer I want more in the low-mid 70's AA range, for Bitters and Pales a 67c mash and a bit of sugar should be just right though.
Taste was slightly nutty, a bit of fruit from the yeast but not extremely so, probably my most distinctively "English" tasting ale so far, I have had some troubles getting that Englishness right so this is good news.
Used 20 ml caramel colour but it was still a tad light, might use 1% chocolate malt next time just for a little extra colour and flavour depth.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Might try a 69c mash for the Christmas ale, removed the date syrup and went with 12% invert 3 instead.
Hoping to end up at ~75% AA.

 

[HM-2]

Verdant is only listed as 75% attenuation but I've frequently hit 85% with it. It does play well with a 69-70°C mash temp, especially in high OG beers.

 

[Miraculix]

Verdant is only listed as 75% attenuation but I've frequently hit 85% with it. It does play well with a 69-70°C mash temp, especially in high OG beers.

I witnessed quite a constant attenuation with it between 77 and 80%. Never went above 80, also not with a hochkurz mash. Did you add simple sugars to those higher attenuating ones?

 

[HM-2]

I witnessed quite a constant attenuation with it between 77 and 80%. Never went above 80, also not with a hochkurz mash. Did you add simple sugars to those higher attenuating ones?

Good point I did, yes- around 3%.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Is 3% enough to make any meaningful difference?

 

[Miraculix]

Is 3% enough to make any meaningful difference?

It's 3 % difference

Without it, 82% attenuation. With it, 85%.

...ok, not 100% correct, but in a simplified way, it is.

Edit: actually it should be something like 3% of 20%, so it would be 0.6% additional attenuation of there would be 80% without the sugar replacement.

 

[user 263363]

So I am *hoping* to brew my mild this weekend as I am really looking forward to it. I was going to use Pub yeast but my slurry would not revive (it was in the fridge since January) so fortunately I found @Miraculix has had good luck with the Verdant/Nottingham mix and I have both in stock.

Any way, I have been thinking of another recipe that I can throw on that slurry once the mild is done. I found a recipe I had in Brewfather titled Brown Porter. I have no idea where it came from as I am awful at taking notes about those sorts of things. Since it is of unknown origin, I was hoping you English beer pros could look it over and see if it is worth brewing up.

71.8% Maris Otter
15.4% Brown Malt
5.1% Dark Crystal
5.1% Pale Chocolate
2.6% Crystal DRC

OG: 1.049
Expected FG: 1.012

26 IBUs from one 60 min addition of EKG

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Looks nice, I'd go with only some medium crystal but keep the amount of it as is and switch the pale chocolate to ordinary chocolate, maybe reduce it to 3% or so. Keep in mind this is just to my personal tastes, you might prefer it as is.

 

[Miraculix]

So I am *hoping* to brew my mild this weekend as I am really looking forward to it. I was going to use Pub yeast but my slurry would not revive (it was in the fridge since January) so fortunately I found @Miraculix has had good luck with the Verdant/Nottingham mix and I have both in stock.

Any way, I have been thinking of another recipe that I can throw on that slurry once the mild is done. I found a recipe I had in Brewfather titled Brown Porter. I have no idea where it came from as I am awful at taking notes about those sorts of things. Since it is of unknown origin, I was hoping you English beer pros could look it over and see if it is worth brewing up.

71.8% Maris Otter
15.4% Brown Malt
5.1% Dark Crystal
5.1% Pale Chocolate
2.6% Crystal DRC

OG: 1.049
Expected FG: 1.012

26 IBUs from one 60 min addition of EKG

I'm now testing lallemand esb (now London ale) with half a pack of Nottingham. Should be also good!

Vardant will give you a fruity mild.

 

[ba-brewer]

So I am *hoping* to brew my mild this weekend as I am really looking forward to it. I was going to use Pub yeast but my slurry would not revive (it was in the fridge since January) so fortunately I found @Miraculix has had good luck with the Verdant/Nottingham mix and I have both in stock.

Any way, I have been thinking of another recipe that I can throw on that slurry once the mild is done. I found a recipe I had in Brewfather titled Brown Porter. I have no idea where it came from as I am awful at taking notes about those sorts of things. Since it is of unknown origin, I was hoping you English beer pros could look it over and see if it is worth brewing up.

71.8% Maris Otter
15.4% Brown Malt
5.1% Dark Crystal
5.1% Pale Chocolate
2.6% Crystal DRC

OG: 1.049
Expected FG: 1.012

26 IBUs from one 60 min addition of EKG

I brewed the regular London Porter recipe @Northern_Brewer scaled down in the link below and it made a nice beer.
Fullers recipes for ESB/Pride/Chiswick, Imperials, NEIPA - from the horse's mouth

 

[Miraculix]

I brewed the regular London Porter recipe @Northern_Brewer scaled down in the link below and it made a nice beer.
Fullers recipes for ESB/Pride/Chiswick, Imperials, NEIPA - from the horse's mouth

Thanks for the reminder! Got myself some brown malt flying around. I will brew something along the lines of 58% pale, 20% wheat, 10% brown, 10% crystal, 2% black wheat.

I maybe up the wheat percentage to 40%, let's see. My last wheat stout looks so promising that I might be experimenting with bigger wheat percentages in dark beers in the future.

I'm going to know more tonight, when I crack the first bottle.

 

[user 263363]

I brewed the regular London Porter recipe @Northern_Brewer scaled down in the link below and it made a nice beer.
Fullers recipes for ESB/Pride/Chiswick, Imperials, NEIPA - from the horse's mouth

I like that recipe as it’s more simple and obviously a tried and true recipe.

That imperial Porter sounds quite interesting, too.

 

[Miraculix]

I like that recipe as it’s more simple and obviously a tried and true recipe.

That imperial Porter sounds quite interesting, too.

I know both. The regular porter is too chewy/sweet for my taste. But I guess that's just bottled Fuller's being bottled Fuller's. London pride from tap is such a different story than the bottled version (in a very positive way)!

 

[Hanglow]

Talking of fuggles, one of my favourite beers was Adnams Extra, a typical bitter except it was extremely well hopped with only fuggles.

The winner of the 1993 Champion Beer Of Britain award, Adnams Extra is a copper coloured beer, brewed with Maris Otter, Pale Ale and Crystal Malts and lots of Fuggles hops. With a gloriously hoppy, floral and herbal aroma which follows through on the palate where it is balanced by the biscuity fullness of the malts and dry, tart bitterness

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I brewed the regular London Porter recipe @Northern_Brewer scaled down in the link below and it made a nice beer.
Fullers recipes for ESB/Pride/Chiswick, Imperials, NEIPA - from the horse's mouth

Glad to hear it worked out for you, I've tried it twice but in both times it was under awkward circumstances (long story) and luck didn't go my way. Should probably give it another go now that I can give it a fair shot.

Just generally, I'd note that while brown malt is the defining ingredient of a London porter, it's a bit of a love/hate ingredient - possibly due to variations between maltsters - so if you're brewing a recipe for the first time it's probably a good idea to go easy on the brown malt to start with and build up to a "full dose".

My missus loves Fuller's porter, possibly her favourite beer, so we usually have some bottles around - but the cask version is awesome. Just a shame that it seems to have been a victim of the Asahi takeover.

 

[Miraculix]

Glad to hear it worked out for you, I've tried it twice but in both times it was under awkward circumstances (long story) and luck didn't go my way. Should probably give it another go now that I can give it a fair shot.

Just generally, I'd note that while brown malt is the defining ingredient of a London porter, it's a bit of a love/hate ingredient - possibly due to variations between maltsters - so if you're brewing a recipe for the first time it's probably a good idea to go easy on the brown malt to start with and build up to a "full dose".

My missus loves Fuller's porter, possibly her favourite beer, so we usually have some bottles around - but the cask version is awesome. Just a shame that it seems to have been a victim of the Asahi takeover.

I've never seen a cask version of it. That would have been probably my favourite porter...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've never seen a cask version of it. That would have been probably my favourite porter...

It's great. But they wouldn't compromise on it so the cask version was the same 5.4% ABV as the bottles, which meant it was too strong for most pubs and only ended up in small volumes at the hardcore Fuller's pubs like the Harp. And although there's a lot of love for it within the brewery, it was one of the things to fall through the new gap between Asahi and the pub chain. They're obviously still brewing a fair bit of it to put into bottles - I hoped to bring one to the US but they'd sold out at my usual source - so it's just a question of will.

 

[marc1]

I'll see how the fog does, gelatin is always an option.
The Chevallier was $3/pound, so it was shock level grain prices. It was still pricey, but more reasonable, at $90 a sack, but I didn't want to buy a whole sack if I ended up hating it.
My observation so far is that the wort didn't taste as sweet as I expected it to going into the fermenter.

Gravity went to 1.024 after a couple days so I upped the temp to 72 to finish.
Yesterday it was done at 1.017 so I dropped the temp setting to 35 to see what I can drop out.
OG was actually 1.051, not 1.049 (I misread my brew notes), so ABV is at 4.4%.
The gravity sample was cloudy and tasted yeasty. Beneath the yeastiness there was some nice esters and a good malt flavor. In a couple weeks when it is conditioned up I think it'll be delicious. I'll check it tomorrow and see how it's coming along, maybe add some gelatin then.

 

[McMullan]

Fuller's London Porter is an excellent beer. Inspirational, in fact. 'This is Porter'

 

[ba-brewer]

Glad to hear it worked out for you, I've tried it twice but in both times it was under awkward circumstances (long story) and luck didn't go my way. Should probably give it another go now that I can give it a fair shot.

Just generally, I'd note that while brown malt is the defining ingredient of a London porter, it's a bit of a love/hate ingredient - possibly due to variations between maltsters - so if you're brewing a recipe for the first time it's probably a good idea to go easy on the brown malt to start with and build up to a "full dose".

My missus loves Fuller's porter, possibly her favourite beer, so we usually have some bottles around - but the cask version is awesome. Just a shame that it seems to have been a victim of the Asahi takeover.

I might be one those people that don't mind the taste of brown malt or have not run across an offensive maltster yet. I brewed it using the percentages you have listed.

I don't have good notes on the flavor of the but I do recall enjoying it and will give it another try when the urge for a porter comes around again. I mashed a little low at 150F to start then brought the temp up later to get it to finish. I came in a little high at 1056 with a 1013 finishing gravity. It had a little body but it was not too much to me. It seemed fairly balanced as far the bitterness goes with some bitterness coming in more as an aftertaste. There is not much chocolate malt but still enough to get a hint of chocolate in the flavor and aroma from time to time.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I seen some suggestions here and other places that Crisps Vienna malt is basically the same as Mild Malt, does that apply to Simpsons aswell? Plan on trying to use it as a part of the base malts in Milds, Browns and Porters.

 

[marc1]

Gravity went to 1.024 after a couple days so I upped the temp to 72 to finish.
Yesterday it was done at 1.017 so I dropped the temp setting to 35 to see what I can drop out.
OG was actually 1.051, not 1.049 (I misread my brew notes), so ABV is at 4.4%.
The gravity sample was cloudy and tasted yeasty. Beneath the yeastiness there was some nice esters and a good malt flavor. In a couple weeks when it is conditioned up I think it'll be delicious. I'll check it tomorrow and see how it's coming along, maybe add some gelatin then.

Added gelatin last night. Might keg it next weekend.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Well I went ahead and ordered a 5kg sack of Swedish Vienna from Warbro, I think it is made from an old Swedish heritage barley called Balder wich was very popular in domestic brewing back in the day.
Will try it in a Golden Bitter 50/50 with GP to see what it brings and because it feels like the sort of ale where a portion of mild malt would have been used.
So GP, Vienna/Mild Malt, some wheat and 10% invert 2.
OG 1.042 -/+ 1 and around 37 IBU, so
hopping and bitterness as my regular best bitters.