English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Miraculix]

OK that explains a lot
There's a saying in Germany that the craziest farmer has the biggest potatoes.
Transfering that logic to homebrewing your beers must be feckin brilliant.

Its the most stupid farmers, not the most crazy farmers, to be precise.

"Die dümmsten Bauern haben die dicksten Kartoffeln."

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Tomorrow's brew day -
Squirrel Nut Brown Ale
Batch size - 11.25 gallon
ABV - 4.9%
SRM - 16
IBU - 26

10 lb Golden Promise (like pale ale)
8 lb Marris Otter
2.5 lb brown ale (L° - 55)
8 oz flaked oats (not milled)
5 oz choc malt (L° - 350)
4 oz coffee malt (L° - 150)

Hops - 30 m. Each
2 oz fuggle,
2 oz UK Kent goldings

Yeast 2 PK Fermentis US-05

Fermenting at 72° F
(range allowed from 67-77)
It is still pretty warm in the south so mostly cooling for temp control. It can get up to 85 mid day and down to 60 at night.

Seems decent, but I'd skip the coffee malt, replace oats with crystal at 6% of the grist and ferment it with a more flavourful yeast.
If you are aiming for an English brown that is.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Keep it simple this is Double Maxim Brown ale 22 litres

Malts (4.6 kg)​

4.2 kg (91.3%) — Crisp Finest Maris Otter® Ale Malt — Grain — 3.3 SRM

200 g (4.4%) — Crisp Wheat Malt — Grain — 2.1 SRM — Mash — 60 min

100 g (2.2%) — Weyermann Chocolate Wheat — Grain — 510 SRM — Mash

100 g (2.2%) — Crisp Roast Barley — Grain — 700 SRM — Mash

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Brickfields Brown Ale 22 litres
4.2 kg (84%) — Crisp Finest Maris Otter® Ale Malt — Grain — 3.3 SRM

300 g (6%) — Crisp Amber Malt — Grain — 37 SRM

200 g (4%) — Crisp Dark Crystal 400 — Grain — 230 SRM

200 g (4%) — Crisp Naked Oat Malt — Grain — 2.5 SRM

100 g (2%) — Crisp Chocolate Malt — Grain — 530 SRM

 

[Willy]

Seems decent, but I'd skip the coffee malt, replace oats with crystal at 6% of the grist and ferment it with a more flavourful yeast.
If you are aiming for an English brown that is.

All excellent suggestions. Not going for traditional English Brown... This is designed for my palette. More of an Americanized, ahhh, this is what I like!!! Light Brown Ale.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Modern "Amber Ale" is often just bitter differently named to make it fashionable.

It's not really about fashion. Part of it is a perception is that the word "bitter" is not appealing at a time when people's tastes prefer something less bitter. But a lot of it is solving a problem for brewers in regions where bitter was traditionally brown rather than golden. As golden ales have become more popular, a lot of them have brought in golden ales under the same brand as their traditional bitters, but then that leaves them with the problem of how to describe the "original", and if you're describing the new one in colour terms it makes sense to do the same for the old one.

Boddies and Stones do not have this problem....

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

No-one drinks bitter any more. Rebranding it to sound like it's fashionable Golden Ale or Amber Ale helps it sell.

 

[balrog]

There's a saying in Germany that the craziest farmer has the biggest potatoes.

Its the most stupid farmers, not the most crazy farmers, to be precise.

"Die dümmsten Bauern haben die dicksten Kartoffeln."

Being of German heritage, and having taken two years of university German, I can honestly say that's the kewelest thing I've ever learned about the German language.

 

[Peebee]

A word from the stupid farmer?

...

Good grief. The"Spitfire" Golden/Amber arrangement I'd seen before; but going from one of the oldest English breweries to one of the newest breweries (I'm not counting all these fly-by-night UK "craft beer" breweries springing up all over the shop), if they can't see a point in keeping an "English Bitter" alive, what hope for "English Bitter" all around? Black Sheep split off from the family firm when Theakston's Brewery sold out to Keg Beer Giants, Scottish and Newcastle. Now, all happily back together again as an independent, "Black Sheep Ale" starts displaying its true "colours"? (Perhaps I'm losing touch with how things are going in darkest England as I'm confined to living in Wales now?).

Depressing.

And why do we British home-brewer's mash at pH5.2 now? Wasn't it always 5.4 at the low end? All the stuff I'd been doing with "water chemistry" answered that: JPs "Water" book to be precise. If you want to make pale beers suitable for keg you apparently aim for a lower pH (5.2, not 5.4). Traditional UK "Bitter", with its lack of carbonation and excessively robust "structure" ("structure" is a very telling - in my view - description taken from JP's "Water" book) appears to be only for old dinosaurs ... like me? I was very taken by JP's work on "water" and "residual alkalinity", aka. "RA" ... until I learnt what a load of ridiculous hokum is "RA" and the connection of mash pH and the colour of beer. "English" beers are dying out, as are old dinosaurs ... like me?

... Transfering that logic to homebrewing your beers must be feckin brilliant.

I'm also pretty good at self-destruction.

 

[Colindo]

if they can't see a point in keeping an "English Bitter" alive,

This is apparently a problem that has already spread throughout the UK https://zythophile.co.uk/2019/04/09...-the-beer-style-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/

JPs "Water" book to be precise. If you want to make pale beers suitable for keg you apparently aim for a lower pH (5.2, not 5.4).

Is that because the cask conditioning process lowers pH a bit? I have read before that British Cask Ale has the lowest pH of all beers, sometimes going down to 3.9.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Speaking as an old pterodactyl (we became birds) beer like language will evolve. The drink we call bitter would be unrecognisable from what was drunk 100 years back. As Shakespeare said in Great Expectations “a Rose by any other name would still be Bitter.”

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

This is apparently a problem that has already spread throughout the UK https://zythophile.co.uk/2019/04/09...-the-beer-style-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/

Is that because the cask conditioning process lowers pH a bit? I have read before that British Cask Ale has the lowest pH of all beers, sometimes going down to 3.9.

Could this be because cask beer is more susceptible to bacterial infection?

 

[Colindo]

Could this be because cask beer is more susceptible to bacterial infection?

Not generally speaking. If it is fresh, things should be fine. From what I know, and I believe this is from the book "Yeast" by Chris White, the properties in which the yeast ferments change how much organic acid the yeast produces. And the strong secondary fermentation is supposed to help this. Another factor is open fermentation vessels, but not all UK brewers use those any more.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Writing an essay for my newly started university studies, and to accompany that I poured one of my bottles of old school bretted Imperial Stout.
About 4 months since bottling, it has no head, got that sharp and tart almost acidic "brett bite" still. But it had carbed up nicely to what seems to be about 2vol or just below that.
Will need some maturing though, this and the old ale will probably be nice beers for christmas and the long, cold winter...

 

[DuncB]

Might be a case of trialling a cheat with some heading liquid on these big beers?

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Got a batch of bitter hopped(partly) with homegrown hops. Fuggle 1g/L at 20 min left, 15min hopstand a mix of fuggle/homegrown at 0.5g/L each and then a modest 0.5g/L dry hop with homegrown.

 

[DuncB]

If those are undried homegrown hops, that is a " very modest " hopping.

I think it's 6 to 10 x the weight of wet hops for a dry equivalent.

But it will still add ( whilst taking away your yield)

 

[user 246304]

Writing an essay for my newly started university studies, and to accompany that I poured one of my bottles of old school bretted Imperial Stout.
About 4 months since bottling, it has no head, got that sharp and tart almost acidic "brett bite" still. But it had carbed up nicely to what seems to be about 2vol or just below that.
Will need some maturing though, this and the old ale will probably be nice beers for christmas and the long, cold winter...
View attachment 858521

Hi Erik, I've got my (13%) bretted RIS at 6 months now and planned to take it to 11 months or so, before bottling up. So I understand, are you saying it's carbonated, just not keeping a head? Any thoughts as to why? I know that just has to be delicious.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

If those are undried homegrown hops, that is a " very modest " hopping.

I think it's 6 to 10 x the weight of wet hops for a dry equivalent.

But it will still add ( whilst taking away your yield)

The cones are dried and stored in the freezer, got a small yield of my 2 other 2year plants aswell. The plan is to use them up during the winter and spring.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Hi Erik, I've got my (13%) bretted RIS at 6 months now and planned to take it to 11 months or so, before bottling up. So I understand, are you saying it's carbonated, just not keeping a head? Any thoughts as to why? I know that just has to be delicious.

Well it was sitting just north of a year, 13 months I think, in secondary being worked by brett, then bottled around 4months ago.

Usually the head on big beers are not as stable as on more normal strength ones, but it tends to improve as they mature, don't have any idea as to why, might be alcohol affecting things and certain compounds needing time to stabilize.

 

[user 246304]

Well it was sitting just north of a year, 13 months I think, in secondary being worked by brett, then bottled around 4months ago.

Usually the head on big beers are not as stable as on more normal strength ones, but it tends to improve as they mature, don't have any idea as to why, might be alcohol affecting things and certain compounds needing time to stabilize.

Excellent. Thanks for the notes Erik. I know my in-laws are looking forward to many years "release" of this brew.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I think it's 6 to 10 x the weight of wet hops for a dry equivalent

British brewers generally assume you need 7x wet/fresh/green hops as dried commercial hops.

In the US they seem to assume a bit less, maybe 5x.

For home-dried it's no bad thing to assume they're not quite as dry as ones that are commercially kilned, so allow a bit extra.

 

[Colindo]

@Northern_Brewer In Germany they also recommend 7x.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm going to make a "British lager bitter". I was just thinking about that I missed the opportunity to buy one of the liquid strains I recently wanted to test with my last online order.... But I still wanted to brew a bitter. So I am left with the clean dry strains that I have, notti and s04... Meh... Good enough but somehow my excitement was not sparked.

So let's make it a feature! In recent history my most more-ish beer that I brewed was a warm fermented diamond lager beer.

I'm going to do exactly the same but with a classic bitter grain bill and hopping rate. 10% dark crystal, 10% Demerara sugar, something to boost head retention and MO as base. 30 ibus English hops with moderate late and dry hopping.

Going to be great I hope!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

10% dark crystal is well into cloying territory for me, I'd probably cut back to 4-5% personally.
But interested none the less, keep us updated mein braubruder.

 

[Colindo]

@Miraculix Sounds great! Keep us posted.

For ther German homebrew convention in March they just announced that Best Bitter will be one of the competition styles. I'm hellbent on winning that one, but of course it will follow BJCP guidelines The biggest discrepancy being that 3.8%-4.6% ABV is an awfully wide range. I was thinking of aiming for 4.0% and see where I get.
How would you guys approach this? I was thinking of no invert sugar, but haven't settled on the type of crystal yet. Yeast will be something heavily flocculating to promote clarity and I have some WLP007 in the fridge. Will do my first tests with that.

 

[Miraculix]

10% dark crystal is well into cloying territory for me, I'd probably cut back to 4-5% personally.
But interested none the less, keep us updated mein braubruder.

It all depends on the context. Normally I would agree, but with ten percent fully fermentable sugar, plus the higher attenuation of the lager strain, this should work out me thinks.

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix Sounds great! Keep us posted.

For ther German homebrew convention in March they just announced that Best Bitter will be one of the competition styles. I'm hellbent on winning that one, but of course it will follow BJCP guidelines The biggest discrepancy being that 3.8%-4.6% ABV is an awfully wide range. I was thinking of aiming for 4.0% and see where I get.
How would you guys approach this? I was thinking of no invert sugar, but haven't settled on the type of crystal yet. Yeast will be something heavily flocculating to promote clarity and I have some WLP007 in the fridge. Will do my first tests with that.

I would go for 4.3 %. It is the easiest range to work with imo. 5% medium real English crystal, 5% invert if the bjcp allows invert. Amihopfen.de now stocks crisp malt, I'd go with their medium. Going to test the dark one in the beer described above. Hoch kurz mash for your bitter plus imperial pub yeast with 30 ibus all goldings. 1g/l dry hop.

No weyermann malt. Only English malt. MO as base.

Basically I'd brew a miraculix best with dry hopping.

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix Sounds great! Keep us posted.

For ther German homebrew convention in March they just announced that Best Bitter will be one of the competition styles. I'm hellbent on winning that one, but of course it will follow BJCP guidelines The biggest discrepancy being that 3.8%-4.6% ABV is an awfully wide range. I was thinking of aiming for 4.0% and see where I get.
How would you guys approach this? I was thinking of no invert sugar, but haven't settled on the type of crystal yet. Yeast will be something heavily flocculating to promote clarity and I have some WLP007 in the fridge. Will do my first tests with that.

I would go for 4.3 %. It is the easiest range to work with imo. 5% medium real English crystal, 5% invert if the bjcp allows invert. Amihopfen.de now stocks crisp malt, I'd go with their medium. Going to test the dark one in the beer described above. Hoch kurz mash for your bitter plus imperial pub yeast with 30 ibus all goldings. 1g/l dry hop.

Basically I'd brew a miraculix best with dry hopping.

Oh, and brew two months ahead so that the beer hits the competition in it's prime.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

@Miraculix Sounds great! Keep us posted.

For ther German homebrew convention in March they just announced that Best Bitter will be one of the competition styles. I'm hellbent on winning that one, but of course it will follow BJCP guidelines The biggest discrepancy being that 3.8%-4.6% ABV is an awfully wide range. I was thinking of aiming for 4.0% and see where I get.
How would you guys approach this? I was thinking of no invert sugar, but haven't settled on the type of crystal yet. Yeast will be something heavily flocculating to promote clarity and I have some WLP007 in the fridge. Will do my first tests with that.

For a best bitter 4.2-4.3% is the sweet point. Leave out the sugar (as you are in Germany), use medium crystal at 5-7%. My yeast of choice would be Nottingham style I.e Midland or WHC Old English.
Edit. Use Maris Otter or Golden Promise as the base malt.

 

[Colindo]

I would go for 4.3 %. It is the easiest range to work with imo. 5% medium real English crystal, 5% invert if the bjcp allows invert. Amihopfen.de now stocks crisp malt, I'd go with their medium. Going to test the dark one in the beer described above. Hoch kurz mash for your bitter plus imperial pub yeast with 30 ibus all goldings. 1g/l dry hop.

No weyermann malt. Only English malt. MO as base.

Basically I'd brew a miraculix best with dry hopping.

I know most of Crisp's crystals and also noticed the German shop stocking them. I'll try Cara Gold next, just because I haven't yet, but will probably default to Crystal 150, because it is my favourite and is used in most British beers. I have only tried the dark crystals in stouts, where they really shine.

BJCP does not restrict ingredients. But none of the German homebrewers who will be judges will be able to understand the flavour, I believe.

Do you really think a Best Bitter should be dry-hopped? I was playing with the idea, but only know of Chiswick Bitter, which was dry-hopped, and that was closer to a session IPA in the modern sense than a Best Bitter.

For a best bitter 4.2-4.3% is the sweet point. Leave out the sugar (as you are in Germany), use medium crystal at 5-7%. My yeast of choice would be Nottingham style I.e Midland or WHC Old English.
Edit. Use Maris Otter or Golden Promise as the base malt.

Most sounds solid. Have not decided on the base malt yet, but Golden Promise is my favourite. Maris Otter might be more of what the judges expect, though the crystal should let me adjust for that as well.

Are you sure about Nottingham? That is the last yeast I would use in a Best Bitter. Though I guess your aiming at its flocculation properties, right?

 

[Miraculix]

I know most of Crisp's crystals and also noticed the German shop stocking them. I'll try Cara Gold next, just because I haven't yet, but will probably default to Crystal 150, because it is my favourite and is used in most British beers. I have only tried the dark crystals in stouts, where they really shine.

BJCP does not restrict ingredients. But none of the German homebrewers who will be judges will be able to understand the flavour, I believe.

Do you really think a Best Bitter should be dry-hopped? I was playing with the idea, but only know of Chiswick Bitter, which was dry-hopped, and that was closer to a session IPA in the modern sense than a Best Bitter.

Most sounds solid. Have not decided on the base malt yet, but Golden Promise is my favourite. Maris Otter might be more of what the judges expect, though the crystal should let me adjust for that as well.

Are you sure about Nottingham? That is the last yeast I would use in a Best Bitter. Though I guess your aiming at its flocculation properties, right?

Nottingham is a nice yeast for a bitter but there are better liquid options. Notti is just a reliable and clean dry option but if I would go for a competition, I would want something more expressive. I'd go with my all time favourite, imperial pub.

A lot of bitters are dry hopped. Just do not use American hops and keep it at a moderate rate. My suggested 1g/l is already the upper end of it. 0.5g/l would be more within "normal" range but as you already said, might be a good idea to try to adjust towards the judges expectations. Everyones a hophead nowadays, that's why I suggested the 1g/l. Goldings all the way. Bittering, late and dry. Bittering and late additions split 50/50 by weight.

The sugar is mainly in there to keep it crushable not so much for flavour. It will bring a little bit of its own flavour but to the normal German judge the taste it imparts will probably be perceived as part of the crystal flavour anyway.

 

[Colindo]

@Miraculix Sorry, forgot to take up your yeast recommendation. I like Pub Ale a lot and it is a favourite among homebrewers for good reason, but since I do not have a dedicated fridge for fermentation and Pub is the British strain most sensitive to temperature overshoots, I dare not use it. The German judges are really good at detecting fusels. I will see how WLP007 works, which is basically a Nottingham with more character. My current alternative would be WY1469 which also flocculates well and is my favourite flavour-wise. I just don't have it at hand atm.

I'm very open to dry-hopping my beer. There are a number of hops that work well when added together with the yeast, like Golding, Target and also my home-grown Tango. I think any mild hop would be fine, British or German. I'll probably test a few. It also makes sense to hop the beer a bit more than would be conventional, because even the Munich Helles that win competitions nowadays are hopped more heavily than would be according to style.

But I wanted to ask, can you give me any definitive examples of dry-hopped Best Bitters? As I said I only know of the one.

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix Sorry, forgot to take up your yeast recommendation. I like Pub Ale a lot and it is a favourite among homebrewers for good reason, but since I do not have a dedicated fridge for fermentation and Pub is the British strain most sensitive to temperature overshoots, I dare not use it. The German judges are really good at detecting fusels. I will see how WLP007 works, which is basically a Nottingham with more character. My current alternative would be WY1469 which also flocculates well and is my favourite flavour-wise. I just don't have it at hand atm.

I'm very open to dry-hopping my beer. There are a number of hops that work well when added together with the yeast, like Golding, Target and also my home-grown Tango. I think any mild hop would be fine, British or German. I'll probably test a few. It also makes sense to hop the beer a bit more than would be conventional, because even the Munich Helles that win competitions nowadays are hopped more heavily than would be according to style.

But I wanted to ask, can you give me any definitive examples of dry-hopped Best Bitters? As I said I only know of the one.

I do not know much about current days bitters production, I mainly look into Rons books and blog posts. Better ask @Northern_Brewer regarding current days dry hopping practice, he knows much more than me on that regard.

Regarding pub and fusels, do not confuse pub with wlp002. They are supposed to be the same but they are not. I have brewed many room temperature beers with pub without any further temp control without any ill effect. Even my personal all time favourite was brewed this way.

I once tried to do the same with wlp002 due to a pub shortage and I had to dump the beer because of fusel madness.

I do not like 002 at all but I love pub.

 

[Colindo]

We had that discussion once before. I definitely get fusel above 20°C, and I have never used 002. It's just too risky.

 

[Witherby]

I do not know much about current days bitters production, I mainly look into Rons books and blog posts. Better ask @Northern_Brewer regarding current days dry hopping practice, he knows much more than me on that regard.

From Ron: "It's amusing that some modern drinkers believe that dry-hopping is one of craft beer's innovations. When, in fact, it's been practised for centuries."
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/dry hopping

Kristen's standard cask procedure for the Let's Brew recipes is "add dry hops at 0.25g/l – 1g/L" which is exactly what you are recommending.

 

[Colindo]

@Witherby That is absolutely true for historic recipes. I'm talking about the pretty modern category of Best Bitter though, which I believe to have been introduced some time after WW II.

In an interview somewhere John Keeling said he reintroduced the practise of dry-hopping at Fuller's. That sounds as if it had mostly been obsolete by that time.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Nottingham is a nice yeast for a bitter but there are better liquid options. Notti is just a reliable and clean dry option but if I would go for a competition, I would want something more expressive. I'd go with my all time favourite, imperial pub.

A lot of bitters are dry hopped. Just do not use American hops and keep it at a moderate rate. My suggested 1g/l is already the upper end of it. 0.5g/l would be more within "normal" range but as you already said, might be a good idea to try to adjust towards the judges expectations. Everyones a hophead nowadays, that's why I suggested the 1g/l. Goldings all the way. Bittering, late and dry. Bittering and late additions split 50/50 by weight.

The sugar is mainly in there to keep it crushable not so much for flavour. It will bring a little bit of its own flavour but to the normal German judge the taste it imparts will probably be perceived as part of the crystal flavour anyway.

The main risk with brewing a bitter true to origin with sugar and a yeast (blend?) capable of actually delivering some attenuation,especially if one aims for a yorkshire-ish take on it, would imo be the possibility of American delusions.
The judges might expect Brittish session beers to be "chewy".

 

[Miraculix]

The main risk with brewing a bitter true to origin with sugar and a yeast (blend?) capable of actually delivering some attenuation,especially if one aims for a yorkshire-ish take on it, would imo be the possibility of American delusions.
The judges might expect Brittish session beers to be "chewy".

Yes, exactly. I think not many Germans are actually really into English beers as it has a very bad raputation in Germany. I do not have to mention that this bad reputation is not being deserved. But most of the Germans drank a luke warm bitter from an unserviced draught system with dirty lines, somewhere in London with a cask being attached to it for weeks or months with obviously caused oxidation issues. And all of the sudden, all British beer is bad. And if not, expected to be at least cheewy and overly sweet.

But honestly, I would love to be surprised by the judges and be proven wrong regarding my expectations!

 

[Miraculix]

We had that discussion once before. I definitely get fusel above 20°C, and I have never used 002. It's just too risky.

I forgot. Ok, but it is relatively easy to keep it under 20 C with a water bath in a cooler room like a cellar or basement at the moment.