English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Colindo]

Colindo, I have 99.3% GP and .7% black, from Wheeler. Is that what you're meaning?

I just meant that Golden Promise suits such a beer much better than Maris Otter.

 

[IslandLizard]

Moderator's Note:

The off-topic discussion @AmarikinBrew started on brewing higher gravity beer, then diluting it after fermentation, was moved to its own thread.

It can be found here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ented-beer-for-better-yeast-expression.733597

 

[Shenanigans]

Hi All,

If I can wake up a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale a year past its best before date I'm going to have a go at brewing something like a Hardy's barley wine with a lower OG of 1.100 SG.

When possible I usually just ferment at room temperature in my basement, which is around 19oC.
However, I guess like most high gravity beers I will need to keep an eye on the temperature so that it doesn't creep up into the mid 20's due to heat created from the fermenation activity.
The problem is that I will be brewing a few other beers at the same time.
So I will need my only spare fridge after about a week to cold crash an IPA before dry hopping.
Would it work to just temperature control the barley wine for the first 5 or 6 days and then let it finish off at room temperature?
If I'm to belive what I read most off flavours are produced during the first 3 or so days of fermentation.
After 5 or 6 days it should have calmed down and not be producing so much heat anymore.

Thanks!

 

[Miraculix]

Hi All,

If I can wake up a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale a year past its best before date I'm going to have a go at brewing something like a Hardy's barley wine with a lower OG of 1.100 SG.

When possible I usually just ferment at room temperature in my basement, which is around 19oC.
However, I guess like most high gravity beers I will need to keep an eye on the temperature so that it doesn't creep up into the mid 20's due to heat created from the fermenation activity.
The problem is that I will be brewing a few other beers at the same time.
So I will need my only spare fridge after about a week to cold crash an IPA before dry hopping.
Would it work to just temperature control the barley wine for the first 5 or 6 days and then let it finish off at room temperature?
If I'm to belive what I read most off flavours are produced during the first 3 or so days of fermentation.
After 5 or 6 days it should have calmed down and not be producing so much heat anymore.

Thanks!

That should work pretty well.

 

[DuncB]

Hi All,

If I can wake up a vial of WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale a year past its best before date I'm going to have a go at brewing something like a Hardy's barley wine with a lower OG of 1.100 SG.

When possible I usually just ferment at room temperature in my basement, which is around 19oC.
However, I guess like most high gravity beers I will need to keep an eye on the temperature so that it doesn't creep up into the mid 20's due to heat created from the fermenation activity.
The problem is that I will be brewing a few other beers at the same time.
So I will need my only spare fridge after about a week to cold crash an IPA before dry hopping.
Would it work to just temperature control the barley wine for the first 5 or 6 days and then let it finish off at room temperature?
If I'm to belive what I read most off flavours are produced during the first 3 or so days of fermentation.
After 5 or 6 days it should have calmed down and not be producing so much heat anymore.

Thanks!

I've brewed the Thomas Hardy clone a few times now.
Follow the plan from the Ron Pattinson info to the letter.

You'll note the very high temperature rise that was achieved in several of the TH ferments.

I do transfer to secondary after main activity settles with airlock and oak blocks. I add a little fresh yeast at month one and then month 2 and leave for 6 months before further yeast. I've used Wyeast 1007 for this and at bottling ( done the other day ) gravity had dropped from 1.047 at first racking to 1.027.

I've always stepped up with year old 099 , you need a big starter or make a weak session ale with it and then pitch your TH wort onto it.
Did also manage a partigyle on the TH grains as well at 1.040 with original at 1.127.
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/03/lets-brew-wednesday-eldridge-pope-1967.html

 

[Shenanigans]

Thanks guys.
That link from DuncB is what my recipe is based on.
I'll see if I can fit it in sometime in October.
I haven't brewed in ages so the list is getting longer and I haven't been able to resist all the summer sales in the online brew shops so I'm starting to stockpile all my ingredients

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

A little off topic, but we harvested one of the hops today. With a little luck and if we get some sunshine in the coming weeks we might get to harvest the other 2 aswell.

 

[MikeScott]

A little off topic, but we harvested one of the hops today. With a little luck and if we get some sunshine in the coming weeks we might get to harvest the other 2 aswell.
View attachment 856334View attachment 856332View attachment 856333

Those are some nice looking hops! What variety are they?

 

[user 246304]

A little off topic, but we harvested one of the hops today. With a little luck and if we get some sunshine in the coming weeks we might get to harvest the other 2 aswell.
View attachment 856334View attachment 856332View attachment 856333

Wow, those are gorgeous and nice yield, man!

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Those are some nice looking hops! What variety are they?

It's an old domestic(Swedish) heritage variety.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

It's an old domestic(Swedish) heritage variety.

When used as a Single hop for flavouring it behaves taste wise as sort of a cross between Fuggle and EKG, but with the Fuggle's herbal spicyness turned up to 11.
It is for me strongly reminiscent of spicier varieties of green tea sort of hop flavour, a bit too much as a single hop but should work well with either Fuggle or EKG or the citrus of Celeia.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Ohhhhh, sounds really nice. The mix sounds good.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Dried, packaged and ready for the freezer.
Think I'll brew an AK with these and EKG.

 

[Colindo]

I have a huge plant of the modern German variety Tango here, but harvest date is forecasted as 10 September, so still some time to go.

 

[HM-2]

I have a huge plant of the modern German variety Tango here, but harvest date is forecasted as 10 September, so still some time to go.

I've just made a dry hopped rice lager with Tango. Very impressed with it so far, might be one of my favourite new varietals. Could see it working well in a golden ale or strong bitter with a Fuller's style yeast that pushes orange esters.

 

[Miraculix]

I've just made a dry hopped rice lager with Tango. Very impressed with it so far, might be one of my favourite new varietals. Could see it working well in a golden ale or strong bitter with a Fuller's style yeast that pushes orange esters.

Now you got me curious.

 

[Colindo]

Now you got me curious.

Tango is a versatile hop that behaves mostly like a classic German hop when added to the boil but turns quite fruity when used in the Whirlpool or as dry-hop. The creator of this variety has some useful diagrams for the different flavour when used at different points in the process: https://www.hopfenforschung.de/en/sorte/tango/

My experience with Tango is that as a green hop with tons of it in the Whirlpool it makes intense aromas of grapefruit, lime and red apple. In small quantities in the whirlpool it gives a more classic German aroma with light fruit notes.

Late in the boil, at 10 min, it gave me spice and herbs, though with a grassiness that I did not like that much. I think I need to do more tests here.

I have dry-hopped with it once in small quantities where the extra aroma was pleasant, but delicate.

 

[HM-2]

That broadly mirrors my experience. Decent bittering potential with noble spice and a little earthiness. I've not tried late boil additions but got grapefruit, passion fruit, and a little bit of resin from whirlpooling. Delicate floral citrus leaning towards lime in the DH.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

@Miraculix
You have brewed a bit with Simpsons Imperial Malt, yes?
I have a beer fermenting now(3d day now) I made with it, I think I've mentioned it in earlier discussions.

20L batch
1.56 kg Golden Promise
1.56kg Imperial
180g wheat malt (5%)
370g invert 3 (10%)
Mash 68c/60min

15g Fuggle @20 min and 10g Fuggle at FO apart from the bittering charge
90 min boil
OG 1.044 25 IBU
Fermenting with my house mix of English origin (one is more attenuative and one more flavourful)yeast but at 18c and now ramping up to 20 to finish it.

What to expect? I reckon it will come out something like a contemporary Scottish 80/Export. Have you noticed Imperial being very dextrinous when mashed like Vienna malts or does it behave more like a pale malt?

 

[Miraculix]

@Miraculix
You have brewed a bit with Simpsons Imperial Malt, yes?
I have a beer fermenting now(3d day now) I made with it, I think I've mentioned it in earlier discussions.

20L batch
1.56 kg Golden Promise
1.56kg Imperial
180g wheat malt (5%)
370g invert 3 (10%)
Mash 68c/60min

15g Fuggle @20 min and 10g Fuggle at FO apart from the bittering charge
90 min boil
OG 1.044 25 IBU
Fermenting with my house mix of English origin (one is more attenuative and one more flavourful)yeast but at 18c and now ramping up to 20 to finish it.

What to expect? I reckon it will come out something like a contemporary Scottish 80/Export. Have you noticed Imperial being very dextrinous when mashed like Vienna malts or does it behave more like a pale malt?

You're going to have a really nice beer.

In my experience, imperial behaves just like a pale malt. You're whole beer composition sounds spot on, I would have brewed it the same way.

 

[HM-2]

Imperial Malt is basically the Simpsons equivalent of Warminster Maltings Gold. Basically unobtanium these days but my favourite base malt by a country mile.

Enzymatic activity is probably a little lower but IME fermented about as dry as MO.

 

[Colindo]

I've been experimenting with making my own parti-gyle recipes and must say it is as difficult as expected. I made two so far, the second is just about to finish fermentation. I created some schematic graphs to show the process, because otherwise it is practically impossible to discuss this way of brewing here in Germany.


My goal is to get three to four really different beers from one brew, as Fuller's does with theirs(or did, rip Chiswick Bitter). So in the first attempt I went with a simple grist and did two very different aroma hoppings in the boils as well as some additional burtonisation in the stronger gyle. The weakest gyle then got that commercial caramel with 3000 EBC that I recently purchased. The Strong Bitter was dry-hopped from the beginning of fermentation.

Tasting notes: I was not completely happy with the first four beers. Caramalt creates a really sweetish flavour that was apparent in all but the weakest beer. Fermentation with WY1098 was sluggish in the weaker beers, so I had some overcarbonisation. The yeast also precipitates significantly less than WLP007, which is one of my favourite yeasts.
The caramel was nice, so the Dark Mild was really as I expected. I served that and the Strong Bitter at a homebrew convention and got some good reviews. Most preferred the Strong Bitter, especially because of the dry hop. The 10 minute Tango addition had some grassiness however, which was not to my preference. The Pub Ale was right in the middle and not too overpowering. Liked that the most. The Barley Wine was intensely bitter and I could taste the gypsum, so I won't do this extra burtonisation again. But it might get better over time, so I'm keeping some bottles.


The second brew is for the 10th anniversary of the Dusseldorf Homebrew Club. A friend has a bigger setup than me, so we used it to make two beers. He will serve the Stout, I'll serve the Dark Mild, both from hand pumps. The Imperial Stout was an unexpected extra because we had too much first gyle. WLP007 this time and one of the beers is already bright, after one week of fermentation. Really love the flocculation on that one. Really looking forward to how these turn out.

 

[MikeScott]

I've been experimenting with making my own parti-gyle recipes and must say it is as difficult as expected. I made two so far, the second is just about to finish fermentation. I created some schematic graphs to show the process, because otherwise it is practically impossible to discuss this way of brewing here in Germany.
View attachment 856909

My goal is to get three to four really different beers from one brew, as Fuller's does with theirs(or did, rip Chiswick Bitter). So in the first attempt I went with a simple grist and did two very different aroma hoppings in the boils as well as some additional burtonisation in the stronger gyle. The weakest gyle then got that commercial caramel with 3000 EBC that I recently purchased. The Strong Bitter was dry-hopped from the beginning of fermentation.

Tasting notes: I was not completely happy with the first four beers. Caramalt creates a really sweetish flavour that was apparent in all but the weakest beer. Fermentation with WY1098 was sluggish in the weaker beers, so I had some overcarbonisation. The yeast also precipitates significantly less than WLP007, which is one of my favourite yeasts.
The caramel was nice, so the Dark Mild was really as I expected. I served that and the Strong Bitter at a homebrew convention and got some good reviews. Most preferred the Strong Bitter, especially because of the dry hop. The 10 minute Tango addition had some grassiness however, which was not to my preference. The Pub Ale was right in the middle and not too overpowering. Liked that the most. The Barley Wine was intensely bitter and I could taste the gypsum, so I won't do this extra burtonisation again. But it might get better over time, so I'm keeping some bottles.

View attachment 856908
The second brew is for the 10th anniversary of the Dusseldorf Homebrew Club. A friend has a bigger setup than me, so we used it to make two beers. He will serve the Stout, I'll serve the Dark Mild, both from hand pumps. The Imperial Stout was an unexpected extra because we had too much first gyle. WLP007 this time and one of the beers is already bright, after one week of fermentation. Really love the flocculation on that one. Really looking forward to how these turn out.

Partigyle has always intrigued me, I've done several with the Scottish beers, they're really straight forward, and also a Old Ale / ESB session, the Old Ale was great, but the ESB was meh.
I'm sure you already have a good grasp on what you're doing, but I made a video with the basics of Partigyle, and it has some good information, and links to spreadsheets etc...

 

[Miraculix]

My next one will also be a partigyle. Just to not waste all the goodness that gets left in a heavy grain bill. First gyle will be a tripple or whatever else you call that one with 3 different yeasts in three small fermenters to compare them, each about 4 litres. Second one will be an apa-ish type of session beer/american bitter. With whatever reasonable volume I am being left with. Og should be around 1.09 for the tripple and around 1.04 for the session beer.

I actually like the term american bitter for a well balanced session apa. Around 30 Ibus, nice and hoppy, bit of residual sweetness, basically a bitter with american hops and not much yeast expression except for fruit. Verdant ipa is perfect for this. But so is Nottingham and US 05.

 

[Shenanigans]

My best partigyle was a Barleywine and black belgian IPA. Batch sparged in a 55l cool box calculating 50% mash efficency for the first run and hit my target OG of 1.105. Capped the mash with some crystal wheat and carafa special II and got an OG of 1.050 for the second run. Which I fermented with a witbier yeast and hopped like an IPA with citra cascade and simcoe. Capping the mash for the second run helps stop it from being thin and also opens up lots of possibilities to brew a totally different 2nd and maybe even 3rd beer. I do this process once a year as the barleywine requires about 300g of hops and is for using up hops before they get old. Firstly I fermented it with US-05 but now I use Voss.

 

[Colindo]

@MikeScott Thanks, I'll have a look.

@Miraculix Maybe I should try something like this as well. Lots of hops for the weaker beer helps with the drinkability, when most of the goodness is already in the stronger beer.

@Shenanigans Without blending things are alot easier. And you are right, you can make quite different beers in one brew. But I like the traditional British method that includes blending and still trying to get very different beers. Not possible to have as different colours as a barleywine and a black IPA, though...

 

[Shenanigans]

@MikeScott Thanks, I'll have a look.

@Miraculix Maybe I should try something like this as well. Lots of hops for the weaker beer helps with the drinkability, when most of the goodness is already in the stronger beer.

@Shenanigans Without blending things are alot easier. And you are right, you can make quite different beers in one brew. But I like the traditional British method that includes blending and still trying to get very different beers. Not possible to have as different colours as a barleywine and a black IPA, though...

Hi Colindo, yeah sorry my post didn't really address your original post. I was just rambling on about my own personal experience with partigyle. There's not an abundance of information about the topic so any bit of information helps I hope. I don't think I'll ever get into blending but good luck with your project(s). I'm interested to see/hear/read what comes out.

 

[DuncB]

@Shenanigans
Might be some info here.

https://prstemp.wixsite.com/tritun-books/guile-brews-1

and here

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Found these at my local Systembolaget today, bought a few.
Are they any good?
And I ordered a new 2L Erlenmeyer from my online HBS and got 2 free packs of hops nearing BBE.
Any suggestions on how to use?

 

[InspectorJon]

got 2 free packs of hops nearing BBE.
Any suggestions on how to use?

Pale ale, American IPA, Hoppy Pilsner

 

[Peebee]

"Best Bitter" seems to an "export only" beer? I think that would say it all, don't hold your hopes up!

https://buxtonbrewery.co.uk/shop/

"Galena" on the www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk site is the chap to contact ... he lives in Buxton.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

We had an "autumn meeting" last night with my local snow mobile association/club, wich in reality is just an excuse to get together and grill burgers, drink beer and have a sauna...
Anyways I tried a few cans and were not particularly impressed, too dark, heavy and caramelly, was more of a brown ale than a bitter, or an American's attempt at making a bitter...

 

[Peebee]

British "Bitter" isn't really a drink that transfers to cans, bottles, kegs, etc. very well (emm ... at all?). You're better off attempting to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone will agree with my view!

 

[Colindo]

British "Bitter" isn't really a drink that transfers to cans, bottles, kegs, etc. very well (emm ... at all?). You're better off attempting to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone will agree with my view!

Fully agree with you, with the exception of bottle-conditioned beer. That can be a worthy companion to cask.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Taylor's and Black Sheep are decent in bottle, but I agree they are miles apart from the cask served offerings...

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

British "Bitter" isn't really a drink that transfers to cans, bottles, kegs, etc. very well (emm ... at all?). You're better off attempting to make it yourself.

Of course, not everyone will agree with my view!

Kind of agree. Once bottled it becomes light ale, pale ale, amber ale. Might still be good but no longer bitter.

edit:
With the recent rise in popularity of weaker beers, perhaps it's time to reinvigorate Light Ale as a beer style.
https://www.beeradvocate.com/articles/9643/light-ale/

 

[Peebee]

Kind of agree. Once bottled it becomes light ale, pale ale, amber ale. Might still be good but no longer bitter.

Originally happened the other way about: The 19th C. "Pale Ales had a class of "light", "boys", "table", etc. (?) beers which (if I'm remembering right) formed mainly from how the beer taxation rates worked in the UK. "Bitter" emerged as a type of Pale Ale (lighter in alcohol? But "lighter will be relative ... some "Bitters" I've attempted to recreate from Ron Pattinson's work ain't weak!). WWI knocked the stuffing out of most beers' former strength, "Mild Ale" suffered worse, where upon some "Mild Ales" made the leap to "Bitter" ... okay, I can only recite evidence for Wadworth's "6X", a XXXX beer that transitioned to a "premium bitter", but it doesn't take much imagination to see it happening elsewhere.

"Bitter" appears to have claimed the space of "Pale Ales" for lower alcohol draught (cask) beers, and Pale Ale seems to have cornered the higher alcohol, bottled, slot ... but not exclusively! This seems to be extreme in my favourite Brewery at the moment: Sam Smith's; Their "Old Brewery bitter" (4% ABV) is sold as cask and I don't think it comes in bottles, whereas, their "Yorkshire Stingo" (8.5% ABV) is bottled and quite inappropriate to find any other way (doesn't say "pale ale" on the label ... try their "India Ale" then ... still doesn't say "pale ale", okay, try the - Organic! - "Pale Ale", but I don't think it's as good as the "India Ale").

"Amber Ale" was a thing in early 19th C., 18th C. Britain. But died out (along with diastatic amber malt), though has more recently been resurrected to mean beer ... err ... sort of ... "Amber" in colour?


Or ... they are the conclusions I could reach combing through Ron Pattinson's work amongst others. I have a substantial advantage over Ron P. though ... while he's a bit nuts, I'm considerably nuts! As in, "medically described nuts" ... and I've not been sighed off by the hospital yet ... ac-tu-ally ... people like me are never signed off ... it's for life! i.e. There's more of my demented prattling to come yet. I gain a great (distorted?) imagination in return though (Oh ... there's that fairy again).

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

Bitter was draught pale ale (essentially any pale ale). The name "bitter" was what people ordering it at the bar nicknamed it. There were brewers, not all of them, that bottled the beer sold as bitter in their pub and called it IPA/PA/Light Ale.
Modern "Amber Ale" is often just bitter differently named to make it fashionable.

 

[Willy]

Tomorrow's brew day -
Squirrel Nut Brown Ale
Batch size - 11.25 gallon
ABV - 4.9%
SRM - 16
IBU - 26

10 lb Golden Promise (like pale ale)
8 lb Marris Otter
2.5 lb brown ale (L° - 55)
8 oz flaked oats (not milled)
5 oz choc malt (L° - 350)
4 oz coffee malt (L° - 150)

Hops - 30 m. Each
2 oz fuggle,
2 oz UK Kent goldings

Yeast 2 PK Fermentis US-05

Fermenting at 72° F
(range allowed from 67-77)
It is still pretty warm in the south so mostly cooling for temp control. It can get up to 85 mid day and down to 60 at night.

 

[Shenanigans]

Or ... they are the conclusions I could reach combing through Ron Pattinson's work amongst others. I have a substantial advantage over Ron P. though ... while he's a bit nuts, I'm considerably nuts! As in, "medically described nuts" ... and I've not been sighed off by the hospital yet ... ac-tu-ally ... people like me are never signed off ... it's for life! i.e. There's more of my demented prattling to come yet. I gain a great (distorted?) imagination in return though (Oh ... there's that fairy again).

OK that explains a lot
There's a saying in Germany that the craziest farmer has the biggest potatoes.
Transfering that logic to homebrewing your beers must be feckin brilliant.