Does anyone else dislike US-05?
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douglasbarbin
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I am 100% certain that the diacetyl was produced by the yeast, not by the person who pitched it.
Certain strains are more prone to it than others (Ringwood, anyone?) and need extra time to clean it up. Like I said before, there are better and quicker strains out there.
I will see if my palate will notice that in the next hour or so when I open a bottle, will report back.
Thank's for the reply, will report back.
I've used US-05 in a broad range of applications and have found it to be an excellent performer. I never ferment ales at over 68F, so I've never experienced a problem with esters from that yeast. Overall, it is quite clean and that is the signature of that strain. In fact, I've fermented a pseudo-Helles using US-05 at 52F and it performed reasonably well. Just a hint of esters. I didn't pick up peach esters, but that ferment was probably at too low a temp to develop that character. I don't doubt that there could be some median temperatures that could produce more esters, I've just not experienced it yet. I've also used that yeast to ferment a Berliner Weisse wort that was soured to 3.0 and that yeast was able to cleanly attenuate that beer to an appropriate finishing gravity.
In the right style, I think US-05 is an acceptable alternative when you want relatively clean beer flavor.
In the right style, I think US-05 is an acceptable alternative when you want relatively clean beer flavor.
Probably so if out of temperature range, yet the brewer has to watch for that. That is the operator error, improper use of the strain. It isn't a crime, just a mistake in using the strain. I wouldn't say it was bad temp control exactly, just for the strain it didn't work.
crusader1612
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US-05 is a known producer of Diacetyl, particularly when fermenting as lowertemps. The yeast itself is the cause, it does like you say take proper management to ensure that the diacetyl is scrubbed out early.
so its nothing to do with it being outside of the normal operating temp range....
Fermenting high, will create peach esters and really high it'll be solventy and alcoholic - too low and it'll poop out early (normally actual lager temps)
bowman5150
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Love 05 do all my beers and 05
Golly gee, nothing like nailing us with what we already know. Thank you just the same. I'm only been brewing 40 years,
Stillraining
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Golly gee nothing like being a tool to someone actually putting out specific information trying to help people we can't all put out gems of info like:
"That is operator error not the fault of the yeast strain"
crusader1612
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Couldn't have said it better myself.
SpentBrains
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There are many interesting comments on this thread. I've used used US-05 many times without noticing any off-flavors whatsoever. It makes me wonder if my palate is just less discriminating than others here.
I thought so too, until today.
Previously I'd used 05 often and had great results with no issues. Those were all darker browns, full "everything but the kitchen sink" grain bill farmhouse ales and high hopped high mash temped IPA styles.
I brewed a split batch pilsner a few weeks ago. A simple American 6 row grain bill. Pitched half with lager yeast & half with 05. Bottled the ale today. I plan to cold store the lager in a soda keg for 6 weeks, then I'll force carbonate it.
Tasting the two flat beers this morning side by side, causes me deep regret! Without much lovibond and a low SRM in this pilsner grain bill, the peach from the 05 is overwhelming any beer flavor. Without high hops or color and roast flavors, the unwanted peach flavor is standing tall, like a naked man at your kid's soccer game. Conversely the lager is going to be fantastic.
I hope the ale version's peach prominence settles a bit after some time in the bottles or I'll be dumping two and a half cases.
OP
OP
jigtwins
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In my experiences with this yeast it seems to produce a better beer for me if the beer is made with more roasted grains. Don't know if the roast flavors cover up the undesirable flavors of the yeast. In any IPA that I have brewed it gives a sweet fruity flavor not really like peach. But it overwhelms the flavors of the beer.
crusader1612
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That sweet fruity flavour is most likely diacetyl.
The character is sometimes defined, as an overwhelming sweetness, which could be what your describing.....
wingedcoyote
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What temp did you ferment at? To my palate US-05 is pretty neutral at high 60s farenheit, but going any lower than that bring out the peach.
TasunkaWitko
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As a new brewer, I appreciate the fact that I was able to learn a few things from both you and the other poster about how to manage this yeast. My temperature control is primitive at best, non-existent at worst, so Any help you guys can provide in how to manage it is good to know!
I'll be brewing a Kentucky Common Ale at the end of summer/beginning of fall, and the suggested yeast was US05. After reading this, I am thinking that temperatures SHOULD be okay, but find myself wondering if there'd be a similar yeast that doesn't have the maintenance issues.
As a new brewer, I appreciate the fact that I was able to learn a few things from both you and the other poster about how to manage this yeast. My temperature control is primitive at best, non-existent at worst, so Any help you guys can provide in how to manage it is good to know!
I'll be brewing a Kentucky Common Ale at the end of summer/beginning of fall, and the suggested yeast was US05. After reading this, I am thinking that temperatures SHOULD be okay, but find myself wondering if there'd be a similar yeast that doesn't have the maintenance issues.
Don't let them scare you too bad, US05 is a pretty forgiving yeast. I fermented my first batch with zero temperature control on the counter top of my house that was at 68-72 degrees. It turned out alright. I'd recommend a water/ice bath if possible though.
This is my exact problem, although I taste it as more of an orange-y flavor. I've completely given up on this yeast (and the corresponding Chico strains) because all I can taste is gross sweet fruit flavor anymore. I used it for years without issue, but I started noticing this more and more until it's all I can taste.
Solidsnake
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I just made a marris otter/cascade smash using 05. My ferm temp was set to 64 and I don't taste anything from the yeast. Spent a week at 34 to cold crash and my beer came out super clear.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1467233827.045864.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1467233845.245449.jpg
SpentBrains
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Yep started at 63. Stabilized at 62 after 2 days.
Sounds familiar. I fermented a cream ale in the low 60s and it was super peachy. From now on I'll only use S5 on pale ales or darker, fermented in the upper 60s. An APA I did recently with S5 was much better.
olddirtybaird
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I'm relieved to see this issue mentioned. I thought I was the only one because it's pretty popular among dry yeast fans and noobs, such as myself, starting out.
All of my batches have had a heavy yeasty and bread taste issue too. I thought it was just because of my process and lack of experience, which is probably still a factor in my beers, but this makes me feel a tad more sane. Since I haven't invested in cold crash equipment or using finings, I could never get this yeast to drop after weeks in the primary at room temp (72F). One got close, but the yeastiness remained. As a fyi, I haven't invested in those tools because I've been trying to keep it simple and focus on the key principles for good beer based on what I've read and picked up here (sanitation, temp control, etc.).
What really convinced me that it may be an issue with the yeast or that my process just isn't suited for it is that I just used S-04 for the first time and was blown away by the clarity and clean tastes in a recent cider and oatmeal stout - really great flavor even when flat during bottling day as compared to US-05.
Note: I'm not directly challenging any experienced brewer here on 05, but I feel confident sharing my somewhat underwhelming experience as a heads up with anyone that asks.
Thanks for sharing your insights and experiences! Love this forum!
skw
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I've certainly made some of my best beers with US-05. However, I have stopped using it as I've simply overused it and wanted some variety. US-05's flavor profile is IMHO well suited for hoppy beers, but in beers that aren't an IPA, I don't care for it that much.
I found this thread because this is the issue with my latest. I've had it once before with US-05. Both times I fined with gelatin and got crystal clear beer. Usually I use 05 for my big hoppy beers and I don't do post fermentation fining and I don't get the character. TBH I've probably been a bit laissez faire with my fermentation temps as I've become too comfortable with my results but the fining seems to have revealed an issue. I was fermenting around 63-65F but I probably pitched this ale much lower.
I'm interested to see if I can ferment a little higher, still gelatin fine and get clean beer without this flavour. I've no doubt there is a clean range to be found but I guess sometimes I've been hitting that and other times I've just masking the off flavour.
People making lagers usually warm the beer up as fermentation is nearing completion and they call this a diacetyl rest. There is no reason not to do the same with an ale if you feel that you have diacetyl. I usually ferment my ales in the low to mid 60's for about a week, then warm them to the low to mid 70's to encourage the yeast to clean up any off flavors. Diacetyl would be one of the off flavors.
I usually bump up my temp. Admittedly I massively rushed this beer so that's probably why I had issues.
EagleScout
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I don't make a lot of beers that call for US05 but it's my go to back up. Used a pack of it last week for a mead that never got started, just dumped the pack in and in a few hours it was bubbling away.
I posted this elsewhere, but I recently made a DIPA (a Pliny-ish clone) and cleaning out my yeast fridge so I only had dry yeast. I pitched M44 into one fermenter, and S05 into the other. The beers were exactly the same otherwise, from the same batch and just split into two 5.25 gallon batches.
The beers are so remarkably different that I have them on tap next to each other and no one could tell they were the same beer.
The one with M44 is more bitter, more hoppy, and "cleaner" in character. The S05 batch is more citrusy, less firmly bitter, and "softer" if that makes sense.
I much prefer the M44 version, but the S05 is ok. I thought it was an interesting experiment, but probably won't buy S05 ever again.
The beers are so remarkably different that I have them on tap next to each other and no one could tell they were the same beer.
The one with M44 is more bitter, more hoppy, and "cleaner" in character. The S05 batch is more citrusy, less firmly bitter, and "softer" if that makes sense.
I much prefer the M44 version, but the S05 is ok. I thought it was an interesting experiment, but probably won't buy S05 ever again.
Smellyglove
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I'd say that "sweet fruity" flavor is the character of a first gen US-05. I don't know how many batched I've mad with us-05, but it's close 70-ish, from the top of my head. First gen US-05 exhibits this fruity flavor, no matter how you ferment it. If you want to get rid of it you need to repitch it. The difference between 1056/001 imo is that the liquid ones are gen 2 or three us-05 when it comes to flavor.
Smellyglove
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What temp did you ferment at? I've tried M44, and didn't like the flavor from it. Standard hoppy-ale fermentation, pitching at 16C, let rise over 18h and cap at 19C, then hold.
I fermented it at 18C.
flars
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What was the starting fermentation temperature and the highest temperature in the first four days of the fermentation?
Bobcatbrewing42
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I've had really good luck with S05 for a variety of ales. No diacetyl ever and clean taste. I try to hit the optimal ferment temps of 66-68F. A pitch rate of about double, what is in a package seems to start faster and attenuate better. I used saved S05 often and that works well. This is not the fastest yeast to flocculate. Maybe some brewers are getting impatient and racking or kegging too soon.
flars
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I first noticed the peach esters brewing a stout at 63°to 64°F with US-05. The hops in some IPAs at the same fermentation temperature may have masked the esters produced. Have an American Amber Ale at day 14 in a fermentor. First time using US-05 for this beer. Usually use WY 1056. Started the fermentation at 68° and then held the high temperature of 72° until today. This may be the best amber ale yet according to the taste of the SG sample. Unfortunately also changed to distilled water for this one instead of well water.
Was it the higher fermentation temperature or the brewing water that seems to have produced a better tasting beer?
Next amber ale will be with harvested US-05 and well water.
Was it the higher fermentation temperature or the brewing water that seems to have produced a better tasting beer?
Next amber ale will be with harvested US-05 and well water.
Formula for a long well responded to thread:
1. Take a well used widely accepted part of the process.
2. Say that you don’t like it, not because it is bad, but because your more sophisticated palate detects something that others don’t.
3. Wait for scads of bandwagoneers to agree with you to show how sophisticated they also are.
1. Take a well used widely accepted part of the process.
2. Say that you don’t like it, not because it is bad, but because your more sophisticated palate detects something that others don’t.
3. Wait for scads of bandwagoneers to agree with you to show how sophisticated they also are.
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