That is operator error not fault of the yeast strain.
butter
Butterscotch
Overly Sweet caramel
the best descripter is Freshly Buttered Popcorn oyu get at the cinema...
The aroma and flavor are probably best described as "fake butter". Think movie-butter popcorn, or the "buttered popcorn" flavor of Jelly Belly jelly beans. In some darker styles it's actually not bad in small amounts.
It also gives an oily slickness to the mouthfeel that is not all that pleasant.
I am 100% certain that the diacetyl was produced by the yeast, not by the person who pitched it.
Certain strains are more prone to it than others (Ringwood, anyone?) and need extra time to clean it up. Like I said before, there are better and quicker strains out there.
Probably so if out of temperature range, yet the brewer has to watch for that. That is the operator error, improper use of the strain. It isn't a crime, just a mistake in using the strain. I wouldn't say it was bad temp control exactly, just for the strain it didn't work.
US-05 is a known producer of Diacetyl, particularly when fermenting as lowertemps. The yeast itself is the cause, it does like you say take proper management to ensure that the diacetyl is scrubbed out early.
so its nothing to do with it being outside of the normal operating temp range....
Fermenting high, will create peach esters and really high it'll be solventy and alcoholic - too low and it'll poop out early (normally actual lager temps)
Just sampled, no butter taste. 05 working good for my palate.
Golly gee, nothing like nailing us with what we already know. Thank you just the same. I'm only been brewing 40 years,
Golly gee nothing like being a tool to someone actually putting out specific information trying to help people we can't all put out gems of info like:
"That is operator error not the fault of the yeast strain"
There are many interesting comments on this thread. I've used used US-05 many times without noticing any off-flavors whatsoever. It makes me wonder if my palate is just less discriminating than others here.
In my experiences with this yeast it seems to produce a better beer for me if the beer is made with more roasted grains. Don't know if the roast flavors cover up the undesirable flavors of the yeast. In any IPA that I have brewed it gives a sweet fruity flavor not really like peach. But it overwhelms the flavors of the beer.
I thought so too, until today.
Previously I'd used 05 often and had great results with no issues. Those were all darker browns, full "everything but the kitchen sink" grain bill farmhouse ales and high hopped high mash temped IPA styles.
I brewed a split batch pilsner a few weeks ago. A simple American 6 row grain bill. Pitched half with lager yeast & half with 05. Bottled the ale today. I plan to cold store the lager in a soda keg for 6 weeks, then I'll force carbonate it.
Tasting the two flat beers this morning side by side, causes me deep regret! Without much lovibond and a low SRM in this pilsner grain bill, the peach from the 05 is overwhelming any beer flavor. Without high hops or color and roast flavors, the unwanted peach flavor is standing tall, like a naked man at your kid's soccer game. Conversely the lager is going to be fantastic.
I hope the ale version's peach prominence settles a bit after some time in the bottles or I'll be dumping two and a half cases.
Golly gee, nothing like nailing us with what we already know. Thank you just the same. I'm only been brewing 40 years,
As a new brewer, I appreciate the fact that I was able to learn a few things from both you and the other poster about how to manage this yeast. My temperature control is primitive at best, non-existent at worst, so Any help you guys can provide in how to manage it is good to know!
I'll be brewing a Kentucky Common Ale at the end of summer/beginning of fall, and the suggested yeast was US05. After reading this, I am thinking that temperatures SHOULD be okay, but find myself wondering if there'd be a similar yeast that doesn't have the maintenance issues.
Without much lovibond and a low SRM in this pilsner grain bill, the peach from the 05 is overwhelming any beer flavor. Without high hops or color and roast flavors, the unwanted peach flavor is standing tall, like a naked man at your kid's soccer game.
What temp did you ferment at? To my palate US-05 is pretty neutral at high 60s farenheit, but going any lower than that bring out the peach.
Yep started at 63. Stabilized at 62 after 2 days.
I am with you on the bread flavors. I get it until the yeast has dropped and cleared. Which takes a quite a bit of time in the cold and fining or filtering to do it well imo. This strain just does not get it for me.
That sweet fruity flavour is most likely diacetyl.
The character is sometimes defined, as an overwhelming sweetness, which could be what your describing.....
I found this thread because this is the issue with my latest. I've had it once before with US-05. Both times I fined with gelatin and got crystal clear beer. Usually I use 05 for my big hoppy beers and I don't do post fermentation fining and I don't get the character. TBH I've probably been a bit laissez faire with my fermentation temps as I've become too comfortable with my results but the fining seems to have revealed an issue. I was fermenting around 63-65F but I probably pitched this ale much lower.
I'm interested to see if I can ferment a little higher, still gelatin fine and get clean beer without this flavour. I've no doubt there is a clean range to be found but I guess sometimes I've been hitting that and other times I've just masking the off flavour.
I usually bump up my temp. Admittedly I massively rushed this beer so that's probably why I had issues.People making lagers usually warm the beer up as fermentation is nearing completion and they call this a diacetyl rest. There is no reason not to do the same with an ale if you feel that you have diacetyl. I usually ferment my ales in the low to mid 60's for about a week, then warm them to the low to mid 70's to encourage the yeast to clean up any off flavors. Diacetyl would be one of the off flavors.
I posted this elsewhere, but I recently made a DIPA (a Pliny-ish clone) and cleaning out my yeast fridge so I only had dry yeast. I pitched M44 into one fermenter, and S05 into the other. The beers were exactly the same otherwise, from the same batch and just split into two 5.25 gallon batches.
The beers are so remarkably different that I have them on tap next to each other and no one could tell they were the same beer.
The one with M44 is more bitter, more hoppy, and "cleaner" in character. The S05 batch is more citrusy, less firmly bitter, and "softer" if that makes sense.
I much prefer the M44 version, but the S05 is ok. I thought it was an interesting experiment, but probably won't buy S05 ever again.
What temp did you ferment at? I've tried M44, and didn't like the flavor from it. Standard hoppy-ale fermentation, pitching at 16C, let rise over 18h and cap at 19C, then hold.
What was the starting fermentation temperature and the highest temperature in the first four days of the fermentation?I thought so too, until today.
Previously I'd used 05 often and had great results with no issues. Those were all darker browns, full "everything but the kitchen sink" grain bill farmhouse ales and high hopped high mash temped IPA styles.
I brewed a split batch pilsner a few weeks ago. A simple American 6 row grain bill. Pitched half with lager yeast & half with 05. Bottled the ale today. I plan to cold store the lager in a soda keg for 6 weeks, then I'll force carbonate it.
Tasting the two flat beers this morning side by side, causes me deep regret! Without much lovibond and a low SRM in this pilsner grain bill, the peach from the 05 is overwhelming any beer flavor. Without high hops or color and roast flavors, the unwanted peach flavor is standing tall, like a naked man at your kid's soccer game. Conversely the lager is going to be fantastic.
I hope the ale version's peach prominence settles a bit after some time in the bottles or I'll be dumping two and a half cases.
Enter your email address to join: