Control Panel Schematic - Need Help

[doug293cz]

Thanks for the clarification about safe start wiring, the 1A fuse will latch the contactor until the main power is switched off. Of course you should be proud of it...!!
I am thinking on 4 x 5500W elements, only two operating same time for a 50A feed. Two elements for HLT and two elements for BK, and two PID controllers for each HLT/BK and one timer for MT. I am using Auber PID Ezboil on my RIMS control panel, and planning to use in my HERMS control panel too.

Do you want to be able to run with one HLT and one BK element on simultaneously, or just both HLT elements on or both BK elements on with no split? If you want to split 1 & 1 it can be done, but will be a more complex and expensive design.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

Ok, and what PID's (or EZBoils) do you plan to use, and have you bought them already?

Not sure on the exact alarm configuration you are looking for:

1. 1 alarm indicator with 4 alarm enable/disable switches (one for each PID)
2. 4 alarm indicators with 4 alarm enable/disable switches
3. 4 alarm indicators with no alarm enable/disable switches

No safety related concerns with any of the above, so your preference rules.

These are the PID's, I already have 4 of them purchased.
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3

I would go with option 3.
Four alarm indicators with no switches.

 

[K&KBREW]

Doug, do you have any 30a breakers you recommend or like?

Oh, and one question I do have with this safe wiring setup.

If I did accidentally start up the system with a switch left on, does that blow the 1a fuse requiring replacement before I can run the system again?

 

[edalcafa]

Do you want to be able to run with one HLT and one BK element on simultaneously, or just both HLT elements on or both BK elements on with no split? If you want to split 1 & 1 it can be done, but will be a more complex and expensive design.

Brew on

I want be able to run both HLT elements on, or both BK elements on with no split.

 

[doug293cz]

These are the PID's, I already have 4 of them purchased.
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3

I would go with option 3.
Four alarm indicators with no switches.

Ok

Doug, do you have any 30a breakers you recommend or like?

Oh, and one question I do have with this safe wiring setup.

If I did accidentally start up the system with a switch left on, does that blow the 1a fuse requiring replacement before I can run the system again?

The 2-pole, 32A version of these will work nicely.

No, the fuse will not blow just from trying to turn the system on.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

Got the buzzers, the correct lamps, the 63a contactor and the 2 pole 32a breakers

 

[K&KBREW]

Every morning I get this email and I grab my phone in a panic haha

 

[doug293cz]

Every morning I get this email and I grab my phone in a panic haha

Your image is missing (dead link?), so the meaning of your post is lost on us.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

oh, well apparently I can't make the link public right now lol.

It's just an email from homebrewtalk about "yesterdays activity". Every morning about 8:30am I get it and I jump to my phone.

 

[K&KBREW]

Hey Doug,

Just checking in. Did you need any other info from me?
Hopefully summer is off to a good start for you!

 

[doug293cz]

No, I think I have enough info, I just lost track of some of the projects I'm supposed to work on. I'll be at HomeBrewCon till Sunday, so won't have much time to work on your stuff till next week.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

No worries, I've been keeping busy. Got a few of those new Genesis fermenters and a new chest freezer that can hold six of them. Will be able to ferment 30 gallons of a beer at a time.


Have fun at the convention!

 

[K&KBREW]

Hey Doug, just checking in again. Any update on the schematic?
I am running the wiring to where the panel will go. I do understand you have your own life to live as well , I just figured I'd check in since it's been a few weeks. I don't want to drop the ball by not keeping in touch.

Thanks again for your time and effort so far.

 

[doug293cz]

I should have time to work on this Sunday. Sorry that I haven't gotten to it yet.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

Oh no worries, like I said, I know you have your own stuff going on and I home I'm not being a nag. Just figured I'd check in. Thanks again

 

[MrBaloo]

I am in the begining phase of securing all the parts.. really enjoying this thread as I am doing a HERMS system as well.

thanks a bunch!

 

[Simphoto02]

Same here. VERY interested in this thread.

K&KBREW, Can you give me some details on your kegs? the sight glasses and their set-up, please?

 

[K&KBREW]

Hey Doug, it's me again haha. Hope your summer has been awesome so far!

All wiring and plumbing is ran, walls patched back up. Even installed a tankless water heater while we were at it lol.
Looking forward to getting the panel finished so I can post up some updates

 

[K&KBREW]

Simphoto02, sorry I just noticed your question.

I picked the kegs up off a buddy's family member, he had them for years on the side of his house.

Polished them up with an angle grinder with these pads:
http://gatorfinishing.com/products/power-sanding/sanding-discs/backing-pads-disc-kits

(I could only find these at lowes, I used the blue polishing pad with the yellow compound to buff out scratches and make a smooth surface, then used the white compund with the white polishing pads to bring it to a shine. You will also want some microfiber rags and paint thinner to wipe them down periodically)

And this polishing compound:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Hard-Metal-Cleaning-Compound-Set-3-Piece-A04HM11/205642393

(This I could only find at home depot)

I went through probably 6 or 7 blue pads and probably close to 30 white ones and I bought out all the compund at several locations a couple times, save the receipt, you can take back whatever you don't use.

To cut the tops off, I got a pvc coupler with a 2" outside diameter, was a little over 2 1/2" long. That and a large hose clamp and I was able to make this.

I measured from the center of the hole to the outside of the cutting disk to cut an approximate 12" hole, like this.

(it takes a few passes, don't rush it.)

This will get you reasonably close, I then used a flap disc to remove burrs and to continue sizing and shaping the hole correctly.

I used these lids I found on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0733TX9PB/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I ordered the sight glasses on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0711CN546/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

And the decals here:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/cal2-15.htm

I just poured in 1 gallon at a time and made markings, then took it apart and placed the decals.

 

[K&KBREW]

You want to put the sight glasses about halfway under that bottom rib of the keg where it is as flat as possible.

Here is the list of other parts.

Herms coil:
https://store.brewpi.com/featured/stainless-steel-herms-coil-30cm-v2-npt

Heating elements: (x2)
https://store.brewpi.com/featured/stainless-steel-ripple-heating-element-5000w-5500w

Element housing: (x2)
https://store.brewpi.com/mashing/stainless-steel-heating-elements/heating-element-mounting-kit

Whirlpool inlets: (x2)
https://store.brewpi.com/mashing/kettle-inlets-outlets/whirlpool-inlet-kit-1-2-npt-35-cm

Sparge manifold:
https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/re-circulation-manifold-for-infussion-mash-tuns

False bottom:
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Keg_Conversion_False_Bottom_Hole_Level_1_Stand.php

Dip tubes: (x3)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions....ght_Wall_Keg_Weldless_Half_Inch_Diameter.html

Weldless bulkhead: (x4)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Weldless_Bulkhead_Kit_half_inch_NPT.html
(One for each diptube and one for the MT inlet. Note: I did not use the washer and o-ring it came with, as I had trouble getting it water tight. Instead I used the locknut and o-ring below)

Locknut for bulkhead: (x4)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Fitting_Lock_Nut_Half_Inch_NPT_Stainless_Steel.html

O-ring for locknut: (x4)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Weldless_Hi_Temp_Silicone_O_Ring_Thin.html
(I put this configuration on the inside of the keg to create a water tight seal)

Tee fittings: (x6)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Fitting-Tee-Half-Inch-NPT-FPT-Female.html
(I use 1 at each output for each keg, 1 at the hex out for temperature probes and 1 before each pump to create a bleed off valve since the pumps aren't self priming)

1/2" NPT Hex Nipple: (x5)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B4DYGC4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
(Connects tee fittings to ball valves)

1/2 NPT to 3/8 Barb: (x3)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions...._Three_Eigth_Inch_Barbed_Stainless_Steel.html
(One for each bleed valve and one for the MT inlet to the sparge manifold, attaches to the 4th bulkead)

Temperature Probes: (x4)
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=767

Male quick disconnects: (x9)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079J5X3XD/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
(1 at each ball valve and 1 at the hex out)

Female quick disconnects: (x3)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CTDM5PL/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
(1 for each keggle input)

Ball Valves: (x8)
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ball_Valve_3-Piece_Half_Inch_Full_Port.html

Silicone Tubing:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FN13SA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
(The amount you need depends on your setup, I ordered 30')

And:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZTI124/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
(From MT inlet to sparge manifold)


Beyond that, you need some hose clamps to attach the quick disconnects and a good amount of thread tape.

Please note, I am using flat wall kegs. If you are using some other vessel you want to make sure the false bottom and the dip tubes will work for your setup.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[K&KBREW]

Boil Kettle:

Mash Tun:

(this was before I realized I needed a sparge manifold, please disregard the extra whirlpool inlet lol)

Hot Liquor Tank:

Oh, and once I cut them open, I cleaned them with bar keepers friend. I would recommend wearing gloves.

 

[Soulshine2]

Hey guys,

I have recently decided it's time to bring the E-Herms dream to life and have hit a bit of a snag. I am by no means an electrician and I am having one heck of a time trying to find exactly what I need to power this puppy, since I want to be able to run both elements and pumps at the same time, and most setups I see are 30a systems.

I have scoured the internet and this is the closest I have been able to come up with as far as a schematic, however, there are a few differences from what I see here to what I have.


(schematic link)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qEYEjV4sbW19cfUlzXrvuJGH9_4vy5uI/view?usp=sharing


Differences:

I have an amp/volt meter
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YY1KOHA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I am using 2 alarm switches and only 1 alarm buzzer, one for the HLT and one for the BK
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69_73&products_id=349

Instead of Auber SW11 for element power switches I found these illuminated toggle switches much more aesthetically pleasing
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012IHZW4G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I was made to understand these switches will need the power "downgraded" in order for them to be able to illuminate so I picked up these doorbell transformers as well as these AC to DC converters
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G0MB46/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BXAM694/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Other Concern:

I don't know much about electricity, but by my buddy's numbers, each element will pull about 23 amps, and the chugger pumps say they will run about 1.5 amps. I assume the 50a contactor listed in the original schematic won't allow for spikes from things turning on, would this be a better initial contactor?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MFEDF54/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


My buddy works on generators and is going to assist me with actually wiring everything together, but he is needing a schematic to go off of. I understand one of the biggest changes I am making to this schematic is for a visual aesthetic, but if it's possible, this is really how I would like it to look.

I was hoping any of you with an electrical background might be able to assist me in this, as it is hurting my brain at this point

You aren't the hero I deserve, but you are the hero I need! Thanks in advance.

- Cheers

I'm very glad you know and admit you are not an electrician . By all means , get your buddy to help. Feed him as much beer as he wants for his help.

 

[K&KBREW]

Soulshine2, absolutely!

He is my neighbor, so he definitely has the hook up

He wasn't comfortable doing it from scratch, but is more than capable of following a schematic. You can imagine how elated I was that Doug has offered assistance!

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, I finally finished this design. Sorry it took me so long. I only show two of the four PID's, but all PID's are wired the same. Let me know if you have any questions.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

Doug, you are the best!
I will let you know if I run into anything, but at a glance it looks spot on. Thank you very much!

 

[K&KBREW]

Hey Doug, sorry it's taken so long for a follow up. Having a baby really has a way of slowing down hobbies.

My buddy that was gonna help me wire the panel moved out of state, and I finally found an electrician who is familiar with working on appliance electronics.

We were working through the schematic today and I was walking him through all the components and getting things labeled for him. He was saying he thought this one part might have been a "misprint". I told him I'm pretty sure you didn't misprint anything, but figured I'd see if you were still available to answer.


In the schematic where I circled it shows a split off the black leg of power going to the red line of power? Says they can't be switched like that. Is that correct should it be on the black line of power?

 

[K&KBREW]

@Dough293cz

Don't know if that image is going through properly. Let's see if this link works better.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EwvbV-MG9mLSSMc3hSdFhohRqr8NxQQj/view?usp=drivesdk

 

[doug293cz]

Hey Doug, sorry it's taken so long for a follow up. Having a baby really has a way of slowing down hobbies.

My buddy that was gonna help me wire the panel moved out of state, and I finally found an electrician who is familiar with working on appliance electronics.

We were working through the schematic today and I was walking him through all the components and getting things labeled for him. He was saying he thought this one part might have been a "misprint". I told him I'm pretty sure you didn't misprint anything, but figured I'd see if you were still available to answer.


In the schematic where I circled it shows a split off the black leg of power going to the red line of power? Says they can't be switched like that. Is that correct should it be on the black line of power? View attachment 660500

Actually, I do make mistakes from time to time, and this happens to be one. Everything will still work, but isn't quite as it should be. It doesn't actually connect the two hots together, the line in the drawing should be red rather than black. The power for that contactor coil should actually come from a different place (same place power for other contactor coil is picked up.) I have also made some improvements to the safe start circuit which I would like to include (doesn't require any additional components.) Let me see if I can get this fixed up in the next couple of days.

Brew on

 

[K&KBREW]

That would be awesome, again, I can't thank you enough.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, I finally got the schematic updated (had some computer problems that affected my ability to use my drawing program). Here is the schematic I suggest you should use as a starting point.

Brew on