Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

[Octavius]

Lennie,
Thanks for the reply.
I ferment almost 5 gallons at a time in the cornies. First with a blow off tube attached to the gas-in post and then with an air lock. (I brew mainly 1.040 ales, so blow off is not all that much)
If I've read this thread correctly, all I have to do is proceed as normal with the blow off tube. After it subsides (a day or two) then I hook up the gas-in to a second cornie (equipped with 2 short gas-in pipes, maybe). The other post on the 2nd cornie is where I'm planning to put the relief valve assembly. That way no foam can enter the relief valve and gauge.

BTW, I decided to go with the morebeer.com valve:

http://morebeer.com/products/ball-lock-qd-adjustable-pressure-valve-wgauge.html

Looks like I will be starting the brew in the next day or so, so if I have got something wrong here let me know!

Cheers!

 

[grathan]

That does look neat and the price seems right.

 

[Octavius]

Yeah, and if you buy some extra stuff, it's free shipping (Over $59). It is a 0 - 15 gauge so hopefully it will be easy to dial in exactly what you want as a pressure.

 

[pickles]

That one will do the trick. You'll find that it's pretty hard to "dial in" the pressure with that brass valve though.

 

[Lennie]

I see, putting the relief valve on the blowoff corny will work. I would put it on from the start since it'll take quit a bit of gas to build up pressure in a more or less empty corny. I like the morebeer relief valve with the QD. Good luck and report back.

 

[G_T_G]

G'day,

I've got a Lager fermenting under pressure at the moment, I was hoping to carbonate as well, though my pressure gauge only goes to 15psi, and the valve itself seems to be limited to 12psi. (have to source some new parts before next attempt).

I'm at day 7, I was wondering if I'd get away with taking the spunding valve off, doing a D rest for 24 hours with keg completely sealed and let the pressure build up without regulating it. Then begin crash cooling it over following days. once it's cool and absorbed C02, whack the spunding valve back on and set to the desired pressure, and bleed off excess.

Am I asking for trouble doing this? should I just settle for partial carbonation instead? Is the worst that would happen, just over carbonation?

How many points from FG is too many to try this?

 

[Octavius]

...I would put it on from the start since it'll take quit a bit of gas to build up pressure in a more or less empty corny...

Good thinking, Lennie! I never thought of that. Thanks.

 

[Octavius]

That one will do the trick. You'll find that it's pretty hard to "dial in" the pressure with that brass valve though.

Yeah, I got the impression reading the description that it is not a smooth operation. Never easy is it, have you noticed.

The price is right and I don't have to order up parts from all over the place though so I'll give it a whirl and report back.

Cheers

 

[Octavius]

...Fermenting under pressure can reduce some of the off flavors associated with higher temps...

Wow! Do you remember where you got that information from - I'd like to do a bit more reading on the subject. Thanks!

Can someone please check to see if they can access the wiki.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

I get an error message:
"There is currently no text in this page"

 

[WortMonger]

That's my wiki article and I don't know what is wrong with it. I get the same thing when I try to view it.

 

[Octavius]

OK, I got the morebeer.com valve and it doesn't work for this application!

Check out post #26:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/spunding-valve-construction-corny-keg-245337/index3.html

I'm bummed.

 

[pickles]

Octavius- I posted in the other thread. It should work fine.

 

[Octavius]

Thanks, Pickles.

 

[gmtech825]

so i brewed a ten gallon batch, seperated into 2, 5 gallons kegs. i have had a lot of success with using a splunding valve in my 5 gallon batches, but i tried hooking both these kegs up to one valve. long story short it didn't vent any pressure from one of the kegs for about 36 hours before i realized this. the pressure rose very high during this time.

what can i expect from this batch? any terrible by-products from the stressed out yeast?

 

[henryred]

You will notice tasty beer! I've had batches with 30 psi over night. Started by seating the seal then backing down to 10 to 15. Never had an issue.

 

[JuanMoore]

Wow! Do you remember where you got that information from - I'd like to do a bit more reading on the subject. Thanks!

Can someone please check to see if they can access the wiki.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

I get an error message:
"There is currently no text in this page"

I've seen it numerous places, but don't recall any specific sources offhand. The primary components that are reduced when fermentation is completed under pressure are esters and high alcohols. Here's a few results turned up by google-
http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/yeast-growth

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1992.tb01137.x/abstract

http://sciencebrewer.com/2013/04/08/hombrewers-lecture-series-esters/

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2001.tb00083.x/abstract

Very strange about the wiki. Looks like someone deleted it or something.

 

[Octavius]

Many thanks, Juan!

 

[Octavius]

Almost ready to try this process out.
Since the wiki isn't available, would some one like to suggest a simple pressure per day procedure for a basic pale ale, OG around 1.040?

I'm thinking:

Unrestricted blow-off for 2 days (to allow the nasties to escape)
Then set at 7 psi for a week.
Then seal the keg and leave for 2 days at 40F(?)
(Get a serving keg ready with gelatin fining and dry hops.)
Then transfer to the serving keg, with the serving keg set a couple of psi lower than primary.

Any thoughts?

Cheers!

 

[thefost]

Thanks for this thread, it convinced me to go all in and start pressure fermenting from now on.

Got my first batch pressure fermenting this weekend and its going a little slow. I started with a simple cream of three crops recipe, and i overshot the original gravity but I can just add some water later. Direct pitched safale 05 since I've never had a problem doing that. Set spunding to 5psi from the very beginning and here's whats happened

1/26/14 - 1.056 brew day
1/27/14 - no pressure built up
1/28/14 - 1.050 pressure now at 5psi
1/29/14 - 1.042
1/30/14 - 1.034

So its fermenting, just kinda slow. Not sure if its from pressurizing it too early, or if I should have just rehydrated the yeast. Really loving how easy it is to take gravity measurements now though!

 

[JuanMoore]

Almost ready to try this process out.
Since the wiki isn't available, would some one like to suggest a simple pressure per day procedure for a basic pale ale, OG around 1.040?

I'm thinking:

Unrestricted blow-off for 2 days (to allow the nasties to escape)
Then set at 7 psi for a week.
Then seal the keg and leave for 2 days at 40F(?)
(Get a serving keg ready with gelatin fining and dry hops.)
Then transfer to the serving keg, with the serving keg set a couple of psi lower than primary.

Any thoughts?

Cheers!

It's all up to you, and what you're after. I usually use pressurized fermentations to reduce esters and high alcohols. If you read the links above, it's obvious that one of the main ways this is accomplished is by reducing yeast production, which occurs mainly in the first couple days. For that reason, I usually have pressure from the start.

 

[Octavius]

...I usually have pressure from the start...

Thanks for the reply. What would be a typical pressure to set for the first couple of days? 20 psi?

Cheers!

 

[JuanMoore]

Thanks for the reply. What would be a typical pressure to set for the first couple of days? 20 psi?

Cheers!

I use 15 psi for the entire fermentation. Higher than that can cause some issues with some strains during early fermentation.

 

[Octavius]

Sounds good. Many thanks!

 

[BridgesideBrewing]

Do PRV's have a listed flow rate?

 

[Paps]

Many thanks!

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

Do PRV's have a listed flow rate?

Probably depends on the manufacturer... its also not going to be a flat number, its going to be a curve.

 

[crane]

Picked up a 1/2 bbl sanke yesterday and just ordered everything else I need. I've read through this entire thread and took notes throughout. I'm pretty excited to try this out.

Hopefully someone can figure out how to get the wiki back. I would really like to read what was on there.

 

[BridgesideBrewing]

Probably depends on the manufacturer... its also not going to be a flat number, its going to be a curve.

Thanks RCB. After doing a little more reading on valve design I realised that wasn't really the right question.
What I'm really trying to find out, is what sort of differences are being encountered, when referring to the commonly used valves opening and reseating values? Does that make more sense?

I'm trying to make a cheap and simple valve to use as my spunding valve. So far, the hardest part is trying to get the valve to reseat just below the lifting pressure. Add to that the increasing flow of CO2 as fermentation ramps up and the results are varied.

Anyway, I'll continue tinkering until I come up with something to share. In the meantime I'll be kegging my 2nd pressure fermented lager today.

Thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread (and saved me from countless mistakes along the way).
Love your work! :rockin:

 

[helibrewer]

I was thinking of looking into a Arduino solution. Possibly using a differential pressure switch (atmosphere vs. keg) then operating a solenoid to maintain a pressure range. The Arduino could be programmed to allow ramping up of pressure if desired. This is obviously much more than is really required but I think it would be a fun project to explore.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[BridgesideBrewing]

I was thinking of looking into a Arduino solution.............

The PID for pressure fermentation. That would be nice!

I did have a look at some of the other systems available off the shelf. For around $150AUS you can get a solenoid valve that runs off of an adjustable actuator( or pilot?) valve.
That looks like it would fix the differences in pressure.

In the meantime, that cheap valve I was working on works a treat. I made it using a brass tap body with a few minor mods.
The whole thing seems to hold pressure at the expected flow rate, and it also seats within a couple of PSI, with the current spring arrangement.

Now to filter that lager into serving kegs!