Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

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What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.


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WortMonger

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EDIT: Hey guys, I know I know... big thread and you don't want to read the whole thing, so basic information is on the Wiki of this thread. Click here! I still suggest reading the thread though for more up to date discovery/discussion/debate. Lots of good information to help you choose the best approach for "you"! Oh look, SankePankey went and wrote a very encompassing summary of this technique, and what most of us are doing at present (9/19/11). Here is the skinny according to SankePankey... and us as well!

I've been doing the following technique for the last couple of beers and I have really enjoyed drinking them, so I figured I would share my experiences with them for your entertainment. I have also had more good comments from my roommates and others (most around me hate anything except BMC) than I ever have before.

About 3 brews back, I finally decided that I was going to brew exactly what I wanted and not what everyone else would drink. Researching one night on the internet I came across Ray Daniels responding to someones query about fermenting under pressure in a HBD post. I read a couple more prompting hints and whispers on other sites as well about closed systems and had the equipment to try it so I did.
First, a little bit about the equipment I use so you can follow. I have a normal, gravity fed, three-tiered brewing setup.


All of my tuns (HLT & MT) and kettle were Sanke kegs. I use a pump/lauter grant combo for transferring chilled wort to my fermenter. I ferment in a sealed Sanke keg (with 3/4" cut off the bottom of the dip tube/spear) placed inside my Lagerator with a Sanke type "D" tap that has been modified (the gas one-way valve has been removed and a spunding valve incorporated to release excess CO2 pressure). Now that you've seen my equipment, let me show you how I have been using it to accomplish a closed system that can take .

The first was a 12 gallon test batch of blonde ale that was not very tasty (due to the recipe), but I was still impressed by everything else with that beer so I marched on. Then came an APA. This was a beautifully, lighter colored wort. Removing the ball-lock back-flow prevention on the “normally” beer-out side of the Sanke tap, I tapped the keg and then attached my transfer hose from my pump and started transferring the chilled wort into my Sanke fermenter. The pump really pushes a lot of wort into the keg and pressure built up to about 5 psi quickly. My spunding valve released the pressure way too slowly, so I simply kept pulling the pressure relief on the keg tap. I aerated my chilled wort inside my lauter grant and also pitched my yeast there on its way to the fermenter.

After filling the keg inside of my Lagerator, I reinstalled the back-flow prevention and attached a cleaned and sanitized serving/testing spigot and line (not pictured since it is a new thing for me). The yeast was pitched at 10:00PM and checked later at 9:00AM, but nothing seemed to be happening. Afraid of a stuck fermentation, I untapped and opened the keg and looked in to see the start of an active fermentation. Resealing the keg, I decided to let it just build up pressure. The next day (36 hours after pitch) I came back to re-tap with my modified tap, and was impressed by how fast pressure had built up during the night in the sealed Sanke keg primary fermenter. Achtung!!! Please believe me!!!!! Leave the fermenting keg tapped and on controlled back-pressure relief until it is done. It needs to stay as controlled as the pressure release is allowing.)!!!!! I twisted the tap and ended up with a freezer full of fermenting beer. I laugh now, but man was I livid. The keg finally released all the pressure and I cleaned and re-sanitized everything.

This gave me time to check the gravity and I was over 50% attenuated. So, I replaced the spunding tap and set it to release anything higher than 15 psi. I came back to check a couple hours later to hear it releasing and to see the pressure maintaining around 15 psi. The next morning I noticed a lack of pressure compared to the day before, so I untapped and waited until a complete week had passed from when I pitched.

Taking into account pressure change with temperature drop, I used crash cooling to clear my beer and get me into the range of my pressure gauge on my spunding valve. My valve only works to 20 psi and the gauge reads 30 psi maximum. According to Beer Smith, for carbonation level of 2.8 volumes of CO2 at 65*F (fermentation temperature), you would need 30.46 psi. I could never do this without crash cooling with my system’s limitations, not to mention, it is just easier to not worry when the beer is at 35*F and I can set my pressure relief to 12.71 psi (Beersmith calculation). When the crash cooling week at 35*F is done, I transfer into a cleaned/sanitized/CO2 purged serving keg. I use the same tap setup on my serving keg as I did when filling the fermenter initially, and a regular Sanke tap setup on my fermenter to do the transfer. Then, I roll the serving keg to right beside my Kegerator door for another week at room temperature (65*F-75*F depending but constant). After that, I pop it in the Kegerator and start drinking when it is cool.

Now, I don’t know if all the retarded fusel alcohols and esters are true or not, as well as the increase in diacetyl. All I know from tasting during the crash cooling phase, is this beer was ready to go right then it only needed more clarity. After sitting a week at room temperature and serving, it was fantastic and cleared completely within a week cold.


:off: I really love how now my beer never sees an unpressurized CO2 environment from the time it is pitched to the time it hits my glass. I also feel much better about using the fermenter a second time and re-pitching on the previous yeast cake. Yeast collection for washing was easy this last time, as I released all the pressure and filled the fermenter with pre-boiled distilled water. I took the keg out of the Lagerator to do this, and shook “the phooey” out of the trub on the bottom. I let it settle for about 10 minutes tapping it with a regular serving tap setup during the wait. Then I filled my cleaned and sanitized yeast washing big jar and started washing via the great instructions found searching on the Home Brewing Wiki and this forum.

When it is time to clean this gunked-up bad boy, 160*F hot water and a scoop of oxyclean does the trick for me (search the numerous threads about oxyclean on this community). Then, I open up the keg and rinsed well with cold water and inspected the keg. I then resealed the keg, and filled with no-rinse sanitizer that I will explain about later and refer to as "NRS". When it is time to dump the NRS, I tap with a modified sanke tap (everything removed where all ports are full open) that lets everything drain out the tap's gas-in port. After the first time cleaning the fermenter, I started leaving the keg to clean longer (one week as opposed to the couple of days before).

I also started using a popularly discussed NRS (1oz bleach/5 gallons water/1oz vinegar), directly after a good rinse with cold tap water. I looked in the keg after rinsing the oxyclean out and letting it dry, and I saw a slight powdery film. It wiped off with my finger, but I wondered if the no-rinse I was using was going to remove it. I would, under normal procedures, not reopen the fermenter after filling and dumping the NRS. However, I needed to see if the white powdery film was gone after drying, so I reopened the keg and was pleasantly surprised it was gone.

Now, I purge the fermenter with CO2 immediately after emptying the NRS so nothing wants to grow inside and wait for my next brew day. I really like this way of fermenting and wanted to share it with the community. I hope it keeps working well on all the beverages I produce in the future.:rockin:
 

SuperiorBrew

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You have my attention.

Any pics of the my modified sanke taps?
 
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WortMonger

WortMonger

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I tried to link the keywords to pictures but after writing they didn't seem to work. I have all the pics in my gallery if you would care to see them there. I am checking today to see if they are all labeled. I don't know why they didn't work. I highlighted the word I wanted click able on my write up and then hit the insert link button. I had more than 4 so I didn't want it to be cluttered up with pictures. Let me do another test real quick. Three-tiered brewing setup. Ok, you have to click Insert Link and then change from http type to file type and then completely paste over with your pictures URL. I am starting to get this thing. Now I will go back and re-edit the OP to make it the way I wanted (I had to remove all the links after I posted originally :().
 
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WortMonger

WortMonger

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orfy said:
Thanks for sharing.
Pictures would be good.

I really have reservations about cleaning sanke kegs.

I'm going to put this thread in the hall off fame so it is not lost.
Sorry I didn't have the pics working earlier for you Orfy. I had huge reservations about fermenting inside a sanke and then cleaning it. I actually discounted the idea some years ago as a no-go-ever. After joining this community, and reading everything I have read, I tried oxyclean and fell in love. I have no worries about a keg now. Wow, I actually made it into a hall of fame. I will keep writing about my experiences using this setup, as I haven't ventured into lager country yet and the only beers produced that the recipe tasted good was roggenbier, APA, and a newly brewed Rye-PA that is waiting through it's first week.
 
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WortMonger

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I'm going to get some better and more up to date pictures on my next brew session and maybe I can get Wiki worthy. I know the system works great. I just would like for others to try it or have a few more under my belt before something more permanent like the Wiki goes up.
 
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Ok, my last little experiment is going to be ready to crash cool tonight. I can't wait until next week to see how clear she dropped and transfer. SG last night (est by refractometer) says 1.017 and I am looking for 1.014 so I will retest before I drop, but it should be done. I can't even describe how happy I am with the flavor so far. My last beer with rye was a roggenweizen and had a cloying sourness that took a couple of weeks to blend into the rest of the beer. It was like the only ingredient that I could taste all on it's own. This time, it is a roggenbier type of thing without any wheat. Yesterday's test glass had trub and hop residue (I was a little messy at the first and last of the transfer from kettle) and was very foamy (15 psi at 65*F,lol), but cleared very quickly and had excellent flavor. If I could have filtered it right then it would be ready in my opinion. I have to remind myself, "This is what the next week at 35*F is for. Don't touch the beer until then.
 

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I CANNOT wait to brew with you again. It seems like your beer knowledge has jumped a level. Wish I had a sample of that "Big Lebowski" to share with you :mug: .

Anyhow, keep me appraised of the situation.

:rockin:
 
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This is such a cool way to brew I think. Last night I transfered into two 5 gallon sankes and dry hopped one with 1 oz of Liberty and left it on the garage floor to warm back to 75*F'ish. The other keg I took home and hooked to the kegerator. Needs about another week cold in the kegerator to completely drop clear, but it looks like a bottle conditioned beer right now that the sediment has been stirred up in your glass. Another delicious beer at just 2 weeks old grain to glass. My roommate and I had about 3, and we really felt the 6.2%ABV kick in. No green taste at all, just a slight hint of yeast and a little more bittering coming through. The last two beers had the same increased bitterness, which I like, but it subdued in a week or more so I know my IBU numbers are correct now (I was really worried I was too bitter on the first beer). I really am starting to believe it does wonders for aging however, I need to remember next time to charge my kegs up to higher than fermenter pressure. I had a bit of a foam problem on the first keg I counter-pressure filled because I forgot I only had the kegs charged to 5psi. I cannot wait to try this out on a lager. I will get my chance the next refill on inventory I do in a week or two. Here is some good ester production information, I am finding a little more everyday. I am not using my system for anything other than ease of brewing for me, but reading about the science is also fun.
 

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I read about pressure fermentation in a technical brewing book and it is indeed used for an accelerated fermentation at higher temperatures. The pressure helps to keep the byproducts in check that would usually become a problem at these temperatures. But since it retards yeast growth, the pressure should not be increased to early in the fermentation process. You may also keep in mind that yeast harvest can be a problem as the sudden depressurization, that happens when you open the keg to harvest the yeast, causes many yeast cells to die. They simply explode when the CO2 inside these cells goes out of solution. Commercial brewers harvest the yeast under pressure and slowly depressurize it. I don't think the fatality rate is 100% though.

But for most brewers, with a reasonable brewing procedure, neither diacetyl or esters are a problem. I never actually found diacetyl in my beer and think that it might be a problem that is overrated.

wortmonger, just keep playing with your system and see how the beer comes out with pressure during the primary fermentation and/or pressure build-up only at the end to aid racking the beer. Here is something on lager brewing: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Fermenting_Lagers
the fermentation diagram (B) actually shows a pressure fermentation. Note the dot-dot-dash line, which shows the pressure.

Kai
 
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Thanks Kaiser, I think I am going for it with my first lager next week hopefully. I am planning on taking pictures and doing a better write-up.
 

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Ok, this may be a dumb question but, oh well.

Does the beer carbonate while it's fermenting under pressure?
 
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bigben said:
Ok, this may be a dumb question but, oh well.

Does the beer carbonate while it's fermenting under pressure?
Yes, this is why people add priming sugar to a bottling bucket before filling their bottles. You can take perfectly flat beer and do this to carbonate. It is called bottle conditioning, but means carbonated in the bottle. I ferment the entire way through using a little pressure and then seal it up tight a couple of gravity points from finishing to carbonate it to the level I want. This is different from everyone else in that they either force carbonate or bottle condition like I talked about earlier.
 

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wortmonger said:
Yes, this is why people add priming sugar to a bottling bucket before filling their bottles. You can take perfectly flat beer and do this to carbonate. It is called bottle conditioning, but means carbonated in the bottle. I ferment the entire way through using a little pressure and then seal it up tight a couple of gravity points from finishing to carbonate it to the level I want. This is different from everyone else in that they either force carbonate or bottle condition like I talked about earlier.
Ok, Im not a complete noob, hehe :)

That's cool tho man, so after say...2 weeks your beer is fermented, carbed and ready to go???(Of course more time will let it condition more)
 
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Yep, that's the theory and has seemed to be the case so far. 3 weeks grain to glass has been fantastic. Sorry, didn't mean to make you feel like a noob.
 

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so anyone want to explain to me the advantages of pressurized fermentation?

From what I thought I picket up,
1 it takes less time to ferment
2, pressure holds back yeast growth
3, pressure keeps yeast from making organic compounds that taste bad
4, because the yeast can't make the fuesels, esters etc the beer doesn't need to be conditioned or aged and can be drank almost immediately. (and this is why large scale operations pressure ferment?)
 
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From what I have seen on ales, yes on all accounts. I am about to try it with my first lager and see how she works out. I just find it easy to close everything up and only relieve pressure when needed. The beer comes out ready to drink and only needs a little more time to drop the remaining sediment. I also like how easy it is to take samples, not hydrometer samples though. The CO2 is a pain with the hydrometer and you have to wait forever so I use a refractometer as a reference only not a sure thing. After I am ready to drink the beer. I take the time to do a real degassed hydrometer reading. I just really like the system and hope it works for lagers too.
 

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I really like this idea, but don't know if I have the capacity to pull it off. Not to mention I can't drink by beer as fast as I brew it as it is!
 
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You can bottle from the keg, That is what I am thinking about doing in the case of needing a keg for another batch or just to give bottles as gifts. I go through beer faster than I brew it, lol, so I am always searching for more beer to brew.
 

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I may try this with my Fermenator... just plug the airlock hole. It has a pressure relief built in that used to do pressurized transfers. I believe the relief is only set at somewhere around 3 psi though (not sure). What pressures are you fermenting at?
 
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Well, I start off with it completely open and then close once I smell the CO2 coming out. Then it is up to 15 psi until a few points from finish and then completely untapped and left to over-pressure a little more than 30 psi @ 65*F which is what I fermented at. After a week I crash cool and re-tap. At 33*F I counter-pressure transfer to my serving keg once a week of crash cooling has happened. Gives me clear beer that settles completely clear with another week of kegerator temperatures. I usually drink on it a little over the week just to see when it is clear and to keep removing the settled remaining sediment. The reason I am using a keg and tap is they can hold the pressures needed for carbonation. From what I have read, keeping the pressure below 15 psi is non harmful to the yeast. Pressure of ~5 psi is supposed to be good for yeast growth, and pressure above ~25 psi stresses the yeast. I figure the first day of fermentation I have about 2-3 psi in the keg at most while the oxygen is being used up and the yeast are growing, then by taking it up to 15 psi I start to inhibit yeast growth a little and slow down fermentation a little to allow the before stated benefits of pressurized fermentation. I am definitely not saying this is a "better way", it is just a lot easier for me. I also have the added relief that I am not possibly contaminating the beer with open air in any way. Contamination has never been a problem before though, and beer/wort is pretty resilient once the yeast is pitched.
 

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Appreciate the detailed response. I think I will try the slightly pressurized fermentor next time around and see if I notice anything different about the fermentation itself or the finished product. It sounds like 3 psi probably won't have much of an effect but it shouldn't hurt to try.
 
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I think it would be a great experiment with a constantly brewed beer. I do it for simplicity not taste. I am going to try it on my first lager to see if it works on that the same as my ales.
 

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Hell with a corny at the same price as a carboy, why not just ferment in corny's? I mean no light to worry about, they wont shatter, clean easy, and now you can pressure ferment.
 
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I think a 5 gallon corny would be to small unless you go with a bigger one, or you do a 4 gallon batch. I haven't done the head space test with pressurized fermentation yet, but when I do it will be 15 gallons in a 15.5 gallon keg. If that works then I will know, until then I am 12 gallons in 15.5 gallons space.
 
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This is an interesting patent. It would mean I could only do 13.5 gallon batches in the keg. I am thinking up an "under-pressure, Burton-Union/wort recovery type of thingy". With that, I should be able to do full 15 gallon blended batches "pre-ferment", as opposed to post like the big boys do. I have been wanting to try this on my favorite recipe but haven't yet built the device to do so. Now, I am pressure fermenting:drunk: . So, unless the device is under the same amount of pressure I'm up a creek with that idea:confused: .

I could re-tap the keg with a modified sanke tap. Then, just hook a 3 liter pop bottle as a collection only reservoir, and plumb in a pressure cooker vent pipe and multi-weight regulator. Hummm, that could handle 15 psi and collect the wort that would have been lost. Then, I could just un-tap the keg and let it self pressure up to 30 psi +/-, crash cool the keg and the device, and let it go a week. Finally, I guess I could carefully add back the beer in the device to the serving keg and pressure up the serving keg to the same pressure I have chosen to have the fermenting keg set at. Since the serving keg would be purged of O2 prior to filling with the beer from the device, and re-pressurizing before counter pressure transfer of the fermenter, any O2 would get pushed out once the keg was full of ready to age beer. This may work now that I have written it all out like this. Interesting idea to flirt with I guess anyways????
 
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Wow, I need another lagerator. I literally can't brew fast enough, and even if I blended to get to 15.5 gallons a batch I would blow through the beer before I have another ready. Maybe I should just buy a brewery :D
 

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I am very interested to find out how much head room we would need to leave in a standard corny. I just racked 2.5 gal of un-SMaSH into my last empty corny, hopefully that will work OK.

What will define our max volume? Why not a blowoff tube on the "gas in" port for a little while?
 

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Thanks, I went back and followed all the links now that I am committed ;-)

EDITII: I found this page with a definition of "spunding" http://www.trailmonkey.com/lounging/yeasty.htm#Spunding

This is very cool. Ditching the wort chiller is cool, I dont have to worry about oxygen on week 6 and UV is a non-issue.

I don't have any Sanke kegs, not likely to add one soon. It seems like with Cornies I might as well not modify the thing at all.

If I use a big short line and a picnic tap on the black port am I going to have any trouble running the sediment up the spear tube? Once I have clear beer in the short fat tube I can change to a black/black transfer tube and rack to another unmodified corny...

EDIT: If this works out good I will shorten the spear on one keg so I have a dedicated primary.
 

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wow 15.5 gallons in what 2 weeks pressure fermented right. You drink a lot man.
 
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Poindexter said:
Thanks, I went back and followed all the links now that I am committed ;-)

This is very cool. Ditching the wort chiller is cool, I dont have to worry about oxygen on week 6 and UV is a non-issue.

I don't have any Sanke kegs, not likely to add one soon. It seems like with Cornies I might as well not modify the thing at all.

If I use a big short line and a picnic tap on the black port am I going to have any trouble running the sediment up the spear tube? Once I have clear beer in the short fat tube I can change to a black/black transfer tube and rack to another unmodified corny...

EDIT: If this works out good I will shorten the spear on one keg so I have a dedicated primary.
Whoa, you are ditching your wort chiller? I didn't read this. You need to chill as fast as possible to eliminate DMS from your brews before you pitch. You are on my same page as far as everything else you said. Chill, pitch, then seal and ferment.
 
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z987k said:
wow 15.5 gallons in what 2 weeks pressure fermented right. You drink a lot man.
Not just me, and that is the stigma...... They don't have a problem drinking it, just coming up with what they drank after they drank it. Whoa, you want me to pitch in $10 for the couple of beers I drank(at least 12).... LOL, you see my point. They have now started bitching about me pad locking the kegerator when I go to bed. I think someone said I was getting "butt hurt" over the whole beer deal. LOL, I told the last person that ask me for a beer to give me 10$ now and I would reserve a 12 pk for them the next time I brewed, he laughed and said he would just go to the liquor store. I said great, when it is ready and you want to drink some I will have you go to the liquor store and grab something similar so we can see. Why, does no one want to pay for home brewed beer? They would rather gripe about buying beer from the liquor store at a higher price. I hate people, lol. And I do drink a lot of beer all on my own, but mooching has ended now to preserve my kegs and my sanity.
 

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Home for me is right next door to Durham, NC where the reservoir still only has about a 92 day supply of drinking water. And my wort chiller does not re-circulate.

So I strained my hot wort to my bottling bucket, stirred for whirlpool and then drained through the spigot into a sanitized corny that was full of CO2. Capped the keg, CO2 to 10psi, I am just waiting for it to cool down before I pitch. Not worried about infections, not one bit.

Yah, I left the cold break in the wort. But I saved a crap load of fresh water.



And I am with you on the "friends" who count to twelve 1-2. Quality Control samples is one thing, but ya got to do what ya got to do.
 
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WortMonger

WortMonger

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You can't get rid of DMS that way, you need to try to get your wort below 140*F as fast as possible. It is not infection that I would worry about. But, if you brew and it taste good then you have no problem... So. I am worried about DMS levels though, especially with pilsner malts.
 

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So if I have this straight "spunding" is one of a myriad potential functions of an adjustable pressure relief valve?

In this case the adjustable pressure relief is mounted on a Sanke tap, T'd with a pressure gauge, yes?

And Sanke's can be had in 7.5 gal sizes...
 
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Yes, the spunding valve is connected to a "T" with a pressure gauge and that "T" is then connected to a Sanke keg tap on the gas-in port. The little one-way gas check valve is removed before the spunding valve is connected to the tap. The other check valve on the tap in the beer-out port stay in place to prevent any beer pushed out of the keg during testing/tasting from going back into the keg. I connect a beer serving line and a picnic tap to the beer-out port on the Sanke tap.

As far as myriad of potential functions, 1). I use it to ferment under controlled pressure, 2). I use it to carbonate to an exact volume of CO2 required, 3). I use it to bleed pressure from my target keg when counter pressure transferring carbonated beer so it doesn't get foamy. If I could find a better and higher setting adjustable pressure relief valve and a higher reading pressure gauge, I could leave everything tapped the whole ferment and carbonation cycle. If I had to do mine all over again (which I will real soon), I would use a better adjustable back pressure relief valve like this one.

This one is McMasterCarr #99045K11 for $30.13, but can control .5-60 psi. I would also buy a better pressure gauge as this one was cheap and is already starting to corrode from the humidity in the lagerator. I am thinking something like this would work better.

It is a little pricey but won't corrode. McmasterCarr #4066K51 for $41.24 and the one I would need goes up to 60 psi which is way more than I will ever use since keg tap reliefs are set to blow at 50 psi. You could get away with just the pressure gauge and relieve any over pressure everyday, but I can tell you pressure builds up very quickly during fermentation and relieving it from much higher than your wanted 15 psi can cause a lot of mess. This seems expensive now, but I like not having to use as much CO2 from a bottle and I really love gadgets :D.

They do make 7.5 gallon Sankes (quarter). I haven't had any luck finding anything but 5.19 gallon 1/6 barrel kegs (sixtel) or your standard 15.5 gallon 1/2 barrel (half). A 7.5 would be perfect for a 5 gallon batch I would think.
 

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Ooh, thanks for McMaster-Carr numbers.

My number one priority now is to come up with "something else" before I pull a bad batch out of my plastic ale pale. I don't want another one, I want something better.

Number two is to ditch the glass. I like being able to lift the cover and "see" my beer, but I don't like the thermal intolerance, and the handles suck.

Grey post blow off tube is easy. Grey port spunding valve = VISA + McMaster Carr, thank you. Black to black transfer hose is easy. Grey post to bubbing airlock I can manage. Presumably I should use 10 feet of 3/16" for black to black transfer hose?

I like being able to prep the primary weeks in advance of the brew day, this system has a lot to offer.

I am thinking session/keg beer can carbonate as it ferments. Recipes that need to age or be exchanged can use the regular blowoff/airlock on their way to a bottling bucket.

Plus I can use my old ale pale as an ice bucket to control my ferment temps while I primary in steel.

After the first recipe I made up myself sucked so bad, I bought several of the 'prize winning beer recipe' books, and I can't tell you how many times I have read the words "primary in steel".

The spunding valve is totally bonus to me. After everything else using a Corny as a primary has to offer, carb as I go session beer for a lousy $70 is gravy.

One of my cornies has a straight tube under the black post and a divot in the floor to match, so I can easily make spear tubes of different lengths for that one. This is just totally rocking.

And I can lager in these someday.

My plan is to max out the "corny as a primary" system while I am limited to the kitchen stove and 2.5gal AG batches. When I get a back yard and a turkey fryer I'll be looking for a 7.5g Sanke for primary to go with 5g AG batches.

PM/steep extract batches I can use to come up with max pri volume for a 5g corny. I'll be bumpng this thread again in a few weeks.
 
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