Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

[1MadScientist]

For checking against leaks I found dunking in water does reveal the smallest of slow leaks. If you can step down your tee to a 37 degree flare fitting and connect a gas line with a quick disconnect, you can then pressurize the line and then disconnect the gray qd, then it becomes portable to take to a sink of water.


9/19/11 by Mad Scientist Brewhaus, on Flickr

 

[1MadScientist]

Can someone offer a guideline to when/how much to build pressure? Do you start it at 1psi and turn it up 1 psi a day? Do you let it go a few days before building it up beyond 1 psi?

Also, How full can you fill a corny with this method? 4.5 gallons out of 5 for example?

I have one of those McMaster-Carr valves; 99045K44 Adjustable Pressure-Maintaining Plastic Relief Valve, 1/8 NPT Female, 0.5-30 PSI

... so that is what I mean when I say (1 turn) for example...

There are many different temperature/pressure schedules, but here is what I did last time.

Fermentation Temperature and Pressure schedule:
Pitched: 7-16-2013 at 10:30 AM

Day 1 (0 - 12 hours) - 3 PSI @ 65 F
Day 1 (12 - 18 hours) - 4 PSI @ 65 F
(turned knob 1.5 turns)
Day 1 (19+ hours) - 7 PSI @ 65 F
Day 2 - 7 PSI @ 65 F
Day 3 - 7 PSI @ 65 F
Day 4 - 7 PSI @ 65 F (10 Brix)
Day 5 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (9.4 Brix)
Day 6 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (8.7 Brix)
(turned knob 2.5 turns)
Day 7 - 12 PSI @ 71 F
Day 7 - 16 PSI @ 71 F
(turned knob 2 turns)
Day 8 - 20 PSI (estimated)
Day 13 - 19.5 PSI
7-29-2013 8.7 Brix
(turned knob 1/2 turn, to determine if pressure will increase)
Day 14 -
(turned knob 2 turns)
Day 15 - (estimated as crash chill day)
Day 16 - started crash chill
(pressure was 21.5 psi @ 71 F, 1.74 volumes of CO2)
Day 33 - pressure transferred to serving kegs
(pressure was 10.0 psi @ 33 F, 2.63 volumes of CO2)

OG: 1.068
FG: 1.016
Apparent Attenuation: 76.5%
ABV: 6.8%


Also, fermenting in a corny, you can generally get by by filling it up to the welded seam, that is 4.88 gallons or 1 quart less than 5 gallons, and add your Fermcap-S and try to get to 7 psi after the first day (4 psi might do it too).

I would say that most of us use some method of trapping any blow off from getting into our spunding valve, some use clear water filter housings.

And a BIG WARNING, use a hop spider to contain those pellet hops, hops will block the poppets and build up extreme uncontrolled pressure.

 

[truanthony]

MadScientist do you have a schedule for brewing a lager under pressure?

There are many different temperature/pressure schedules, but here is what I did last time. Fermentation Temperature and Pressure schedule: Pitched: 7-16-2013 at 10:30 AM Day 1 (0 - 12 hours) - 3 PSI @ 65 F Day 1 (12 - 18 hours) - 4 PSI @ 65 F (turned knob 1.5 turns) Day 1 (19+ hours) - 7 PSI @ 65 F Day 2 - 7 PSI @ 65 F Day 3 - 7 PSI @ 65 F Day 4 - 7 PSI @ 65 F (10 Brix) Day 5 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (9.4 Brix) Day 6 - 7 PSI @ 67 F (8.7 Brix) (turned knob 2.5 turns) Day 7 - 12 PSI @ 71 F Day 7 - 16 PSI @ 71 F (turned knob 2 turns) Day 8 - 20 PSI (estimated) Day 13 - 19.5 PSI 7-29-2013 8.7 Brix (turned knob 1/2 turn, to determine if pressure will increase) Day 14 - (turned knob 2 turns) Day 15 - (estimated as crash chill day) Day 16 - started crash chill (pressure was 21.5 psi @ 71 F, 1.74 volumes of CO2) Day 33 - pressure transferred to serving kegs (pressure was 10.0 psi @ 33 F, 2.63 volumes of CO2) OG: 1.068 FG: 1.016 Apparent Attenuation: 76.5% ABV: 6.8% Also, fermenting in a corny, you can generally get by by filling it up to the welded seam, that is 4.88 gallons or 1 quart less than 5 gallons, and add your Fermcap-S and try to get to 7 psi after the first day (4 psi might do it too). I would say that most of us use some method of trapping any blow off from getting into our spunding valve, some use clear water filter housings. And a BIG WARNING, use a hop spider to contain those pellet hops, hops will block the poppets and build up extreme uncontrolled pressure.

 

[1MadScientist]

MadScientist do you have a schedule for brewing a lager under pressure?

Maybe WortMonger has.

Here is a quote from lamarguy;
[More of lamarguy's comments] Using this technique, my ales (< 1.070) are on a 14 day schedule but I can see a lager (< 1.060) requiring an additional 1 - 2 weeks of lagering (~45F (45 °F = 7.2 °C)) time before its flavor is "ideal". Notice that I halved the recommended lagering time based on the assumption the pressured fermented beer has a lower overall ester profile. Realistically, 21 - 28 days for a lager but still much shorter than 2 months."

 

[grathan]

Do people dry hop in pressurized fermenters?

 

[JuanMoore]

Do people dry hop in pressurized fermenters?

I have. More often I'll dry hop in the serving keg though.

 

[Flomaster]

WOW what a doozie of a read. I spent most of my day at work reading and then finished up at home.

I have recently acquired a "S" style Sankey keg that was filled with Stella Artois. I figured this would be a great complement to my 3 keggle system.

Coupline or Tri-Clover??? at first I was digging the BrewersHardware setup with the dip tube as I currently ferment using a thermowell with my STC-100 probe submerged in starsan. then I saw the price tag and was turned off.

but a Euro style coupler isn't cheap eather $30 for the coupler, $36 for the PRV plus misc parts and pieces im at about the same price.

I haven't really seen anyones photos of the Brewers Hardware tri clover setup but i've seen plenty with keg couplers. how does one go about connecting the PRV to the "blow off" port on the sanke cap?

-=Jason=-

 

[pickles]

Flowmaster-
Don't forget the sounding set up if you want to ferment under pressure that'll add at least $35 to Derrins kit.

 

[pickles]

I'm selling my set-up if any one is interested.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/custom-sanke-fermenter-kit-spunding-valve-441632/

I recently got a brewhemoth conical so I'm starting a new build.

 

[grathan]

I am about half-way through the thread, but there hasn't been much talk of using conicals at higher pressures. Does anyone use a conical at higher pressures?

 

[pickles]

I plan to but it all depends on what conical you have. Most home versions are not rated for much pressure if any at all. I have a brewhemoth which can be pressurized, I believe I've seen it tested to over 60 psi. I don't believe the scale of our conicals mimmic what a real brewery's conical does in terms of gravity on the yeast if that's what your curious about.

 

[grathan]

I plan to but it all depends on what conical you have. Most home versions are not rated for much pressure if any at all. I have a brewhemoth which can be pressurized, I believe I've seen it tested to over 60 psi. I don't believe the scale of our conicals mimmic what a real brewery's conical does in terms of gravity on the yeast if that's what your curious about.

I saw a mention on Brewhemoth's page stating they pressure test to 100psi. I gotta imagine that is just the metal tank itself? I wonder what the pressure rating of tri-clover port and butterfly dump valves would even come close to 60 psi...

 

[pickles]

Here's a pic of mine that I'm selling in the classified section.

 

[toastadidaly]

I haven't been following this thread for a while, but did I just see someone say 60+ PSI??

What in the hell are you pressure cooking in there?

As far as I know, commercial scale fermenters don't brew at that kind of pressure? I know many of us have been on this pressure kick because we're mimicking the pressures that yeast sustains at the bottom of a commercial scale fermenter.

Considering water column pressure alone, even a colossal 20ft tall fermenter would only have about 8.7 psi at the very BOTTOM. Any additional pressure would be from gas build up on top of that. Are they building up that much pressure? At that point I'd be worried about crushing the yeast like a U-boat.

Or maybe as long as its a slow steady build, the yeast acclimate to it like divers. Osmosis ****. So maybe as long as you don't drop pressure suddenly, you're good? Don't want to give those little guys the bends.

Tell me if I'm wrong?

 

[grathan]

The 60 psi would force carbonate a beer at room temperature. Its got nothing to do with a good fermentation. Also if you were referring to mention of 60 psi a few posts back, that is more equipment related. If I was gonna pressure ferment I would want equipment that could handle unplanned pressure escalations.

 

[Flomaster]

Flowmaster-
Don't forget the sounding set up if you want to ferment under pressure that'll add at least $35 to Derrins kit.

well I think I can probably silver solder or have a tri-clover setup welded for me way cheaper that buying Derrins kit. no offense to him he is running a business, but im a home brewer and DIY'er and i'll DIY or get made cheaply when ever possible. hence building my keggles instead of buying pots.

-=Jason=-

 

[pickles]

That's exactly what I did so I can't blame you.

 

[pickles]

I'm building my spunding set up for my Brewhemoth conical and I've come across a dilemna; when dumping yeast will I need to depressurize to prevent a massive blowout? if it's only pressurized to 4-5 psi will that need to be released slowly to prevent yeast damage? I could wait to a few days, dump yeast, then begin to let the pressure build. I'm curious to see what you folks think. Anyone currently fermenting under pressure in a conical?

 

[pickles]

No one uses a conical?

 

[Jukas]

I'm building my spunding set up for my Brewhemoth conical and I've come across a dilemna; when dumping yeast will I need to depressurize to prevent a massive blowout? if it's only pressurized to 4-5 psi will that need to be released slowly to prevent yeast damage? I could wait to a few days, dump yeast, then begin to let the pressure build. I'm curious to see what you folks think. Anyone currently fermenting under pressure in a conical?

Anything above 3-4psi is too high to transfer/dump IMHO. Higher and the yeast cells will burst when you dump due to the sudden pressure change.

I usually ferment around 7psi lowering to 3 psi to transfer or dump and ramping up to 15-20 (depending on the psi to vol needed) the last couple of degrees Plato to carb.

 

[nextgenxx]

Would these be a good investment? 15.5gallon

 

[E-Mursed]

If you brew big batches and they seal I'd say they would work just fine.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Where did you get them and for how much? I could use one or two...

 

[nextgenxx]

I missed out on the sanke-Cronys on CL last night. 65 each or two for 120. I wanted at least one for a fermenter. Just a tad too late. I thought it was a good deal.

 

[FredTheNuke]

hell yeah for the size. I would have bought both - just the keg alone is $170 new. the cornelius lid is worth $25. Not sure how to value the conversion component.

 

[insanim8er]

I originally read this thread when I was wanting to convert to kegs. Since then I sold all 14 glass carboys I had.

I LOVE fermenting in my kegs. I really wanted to ferment under pressure and force transfer. I purchased the parts and build spunding valves, but I only had the orange caps. They didn't do a very good job of holding pressure for my valve. I also didn't want to spend $60+ on a conversion kit.

Well the other day I set out to build something cheap...
I used a rubber stopper #7 with two holes and a large washer. I added a barb for the co2/spunding valve.

Here it is!

The build forum is here

I build it for a few dollars. And I only used a drill with a drill bit and a grinding stone...

 

[WortMonger]

Well, looks like another year of pressure fermentation technique updates. I'm getting another job and going to school so I might have more time to devote to this thread. Until then, I look forward to hearing everyone else's experiences and triumphs.

 

[Lennie]

No one uses a conical?

I have two Brewhemoths now. When I harvest yeast I will sometimes bleed the pressure down first. The spunding valves they sell with the unit have pressure relief valves that make letting off pressure easy. I've also harvested yeast at 15psi, just be prepared and open that butterfly valve very slowly and just enough to let stuff come shooting out. It'll be really foamy.

 

[Octavius]

I'm excited to try this pressurized fermentation technique - is this all I'll be needing? Please let me know before I pull the trigger:

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/0-60-ADJUSTABLE-PRESSURE-RELIEF-VALVE-P3453.aspx

I can use a spare cornie to catch any foam.

Cheers!

 

[Lennie]

Where's the foam going to come from if this is on the gas connection of the corny fermentor? I'd keep the wort down to 3.5-4gal to prevent blowoff through the unit, you don't want gunk building up in our gauge or the pressure relief mechanism.