Cleaning the Grainfather (Counter Flow Chiller) CFC after a long hiatus

[Brew2Be]

Hi all!

I have had a grainfather for a while now but have had a brewing hiatus. I find it hard to fully drain the CFC free of water. I picked up the CFC yesteday and realized that it had not drained completely, meaning that there has been water inside it or two or three months. My normal ater-use cleaning cycle is to run PBW at the recommended temperature for the recommended time (I don't remember it off the top of my head - something like recirculating for 15 minutes with 55 C PBW solution) and then pumping water through the CFC to clear the PBW and wort out. So to my question: I don't know what the insides of the CFC are made of (or rather, whether copper comes into direct contact with wort) and I am worried about nasties / verdigris. I am thinking of brewing this weekend and wanted to know whether the CFC is safe to use after doing the following:

1. Run a PBW cleaning cycle
2. Run boiling water through


Or do i need to do something more elaborate?




Thanks in advance. I am a bit worried - especially about verdigris.

 

[processhead]

1. Run a PBW cleaning cycle
2. Run boiling water through

I think your cleaning program will do everything required. Adequate flushing with clean hot water after the PBW cycle should address any verdigris concerns.

Prior to next use, a quick starsan flush or flush with post-boil hot wort will sanitize the CFC.

 

[Brew2Be]

OK thanks a lot for the feedback. I always clean wort out of the CFC with hot, clean water after a brew.

 

[k-os]

Similarly when I use my plate chiller I circulate my boil through it the last 15 minutes, then after the brew is done I circulate my cleaner through it for around 45 minutes, flush with hot water, and then try to drain it as well as I can. I haven't had any issues with infection in the 5 batches I've done.

 

[tdp]

Brew2Be - I just found myself in the exact same situation... was wondering if you’d done what had been suggested and what the outcome was??

 

[Brew2Be]

Brew2Be - I just found myself in the exact same situation... was wondering if you’d done what had been suggested and what the outcome was??

Answer is long overdue, but I haven't done it yet. Lol. I will soon though. Perhaps you managed to do it in the mean time and can share your results? I am planning to make my first batch in all those years in the coming weeks.

 

[DuncB]

I used to just flush the CFC with a lot of fresh water. But when I used hot pbw a lot of fine flakey stuff came out.
Now I flush, then hot pbw recirculate and then flush out and drain carefully.
Some suggestions of using compressed air to dry it as well I've never bothered.

 

[redrocker652002]

Funny thing I was just thinking about this. I have had my CFC stored in a plastic bag and thought, dang, I wonder if any moisture got trapped in it. So, in the next few days I am going to run hot water, then PBW and then hot water to flush. I may hook up my compressor and blow some air thru it to dry it out. Any other input from the pro's?

 

[DuncB]

Mines a metal CFC so I park it in the sun on a hot day or put it on the wood burner to dry it out ( hopefully)

 

[sibelman]

hook up my compressor and blow some air thru it to dry it out

Sure, as long as there's no chance a bit of oil will be included in the air, as I've heard occurs with many compressors.

 

[Skeeter686]

Sure, as long as there's no chance a bit of oil will be included in the air, as I've heard occurs with many compressors.

To avoid that, I use a small shop vac for sucking out any residual water. It seems to work pretty well, as far as I can tell.

 

[redrocker652002]

To avoid that, I use a small shop vac for sucking out any residual water. It seems to work pretty well, as far as I can tell.

Great idea. Gonna do that instead, or just set it in the sun for the day and let it dry out that way.

 

[sibelman]

Great idea. Gonna do that instead, or just set it in the sun for the day and let it dry out that way.

All-metal chillers can be dried quickly in the oven. Sun drying might take more than one day unless the air is hot and dry.

For what it's worth, I merely rotate mine to drain most liquid and then stick it on the shelf (after circulating hot OxiClean solution and thoroughly rinsing).

 

[hilljack13]

I got rid of that POS CFC and got a Jaded Scylla. If you can afford it I highly recommend the swap.

 

[sibelman]

I've heard Jaded chillers are great.

For those whose electric kettles' elements limit or prevent immersion chilling, "POS" CFCs can be a great way to quickly chill hot wort.

 

[jschein]

I used to just flush the CFC with a lot of fresh water. But when I used hot pbw a lot of fine flakey stuff came out.
Now I flush, then hot pbw recirculate and then flush out and drain carefully.
Some suggestions of using compressed air to dry it as well I've never bothered.

Only advice is a non oil compressor, otherwise yuck

 

[Snuffy]

When I'm done with the Grainfather CFC, I fill the GF unit with 3 gal of PBW solution and circulate @ 130F for about half an hour. Then I pump that out, rinse the GF unit and then circulate 3 gal of Starsan solution thru the CFC for half an hour and then pump that out. Starsan eliminates that PBW slick immediately. The next time I use it, I catch the first few ounces of hot wort in a cup and toss it before routing back into the GF to get rid of any Starsan that may still be in it. Usually, if the CFC is drippy from last use, the majority of the liquid still hanging out in it is cooling water.

 

[Broken Crow]

^ That, but for a slightly different reason: Going back 6 years to the original post;

I am worried about nasties / verdigris.

I was surprised to find no-one had yet mentioned the "Off-Label" use of Star San; As a copper-cleaner. [before someone merely skimming this has to jump in and assert the common knowledge that "Star San is a Sanitizer! Not a Cleaner! (possibly in all caps), read this completely ]
I have a copper-core/garden-hose CFC and I'd periodically fill it with Star San and leave it sit a while before flushing out; first with hot PBW for 10-20mins, then hotter rinse water. Thanks to @MaxStout 's post in "don't do that" we have a recent picture that shows us how well Star San addresses the issue: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/dont-do-that.527228/page-58#post-10472450 ..That pic is pretty much what you'll see after letting the innards have a nice Star San soak.
..just sayin'

 

[sibelman]

Star San; As a copper-cleaner.

The question is: do you really want to remove the patina of oxidized copper from inside copper CFC tubing? Some believe this patina to be beneficial in reducing the introduction of undesired compounds into the wort.

 

[Broken Crow]

The question is: do you really want to remove the patina of oxidized copper from inside copper CFC tubing? Some believe this patina to be beneficial in reducing the introduction of undesired compounds into the wort.

Thanks for that!... I forget details all the time! I forgot this time to mention that when I do this 'cleaning' of my CFC, prior to brewing I'll bring water to a boil and recirculate it through and down the drain to 're-oxidize' the surface. Copper will always oxidize and it's a no-no for LoDO for that reason, but for most of us, if it's been a while between brews the amount of oxidation on the surface may get high enough to have an undesirable reaction....if it's been long enough for verdigris, it will likely react in an undesirable way. A 20 minute soak in Star San will remove the verdigris and a hot-water flush will re-oxidize the surface enough that reactions will be minimal and unlikely ever noticed among the non-LoDO crowd. Every copper-cored CFC has internal oxidation and that's OK...letting it go a long time to develop verdigris is entering 'bad-taste' if not toxic territory. Star San is an simple fix that most of us have on hand.

 

[DuncB]

Not so worried now about having an SS CFC and will put up with the possible reduction of chilling efficiency towards copper cored CFC.