Chat GPT

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So even chatGPT likes the dogma type stuff.

We might want to be careful with the words we use here.

ChatGPT is not a person.

Anthropomorphize-ing it won't help in understanding it.

 

[HellHathNoBrewery]

Have been playing around with this for a bit and have set up a web app. Just give it a description of the final beer, and it spits out a recipe. Even tries to guess the SRM etc... Let me know what you think!

www.beerblender.net

 

[bellhp]

 

[Velnerj]

Have been playing around with this for a bit and have set up a web app. Just give it a description of the final beer, and it spits out a recipe. Even tries to guess the SRM etc... Let me know what you think!

www.beerblender.net

This is pretty cool. I think we all know the limitations it has but I like your app and even the picture of the color at the end is a nice touch.

 

[Brooothru]

Don't think AI will ever master the nuance of human creativity, at least not for the next few generations. It might spit out standard recipes, but crafting a new brew....meh.

And if AI ever does master the nuance of human creativity its first act, per Skynet future history, may be to eliminate the human component altogether

“Open the pod bay doors, HAL.”

“I’m afraid I can’t do that, Dave.”

2001, Space Odyssey

 

[jtgoral]

Have been playing around with this for a bit and have set up a web app. Just give it a description of the final beer, and it spits out a recipe. Even tries to guess the SRM etc... Let me know what you think!

www.beerblender.net

I bookmarked it. Great idea.

 

[Brooothru]

I bookmarked it. Great idea.

Kinda' scary actually. I typed in a request for a Czech lager that I'd won some awards for last year. In about ten seconds it had produced nearly the identical recipe I'd spent hours on refining, except it was single infusion/non-detoction. When I requested a step mash, it readjusted and produced the near exact profile I'd used, and predicted nearly the exact final numbers I'd achieved.

Not sure whether I should be ecstatic or pissed!

 

[Closet Fermenter]

This is perfect for solving a problem that I have. I ordered the wrong hops by mistake (drop down list miscue) , but decided not to try to return them, but just find a recipe that I could use them in. This is perfect!

One question, is it possible to add a 7.5 gallon option; I have just acquired a couple 10 gallon cornys that I want to use as fermenters.

 

[Brooothru]

This is perfect for solving a problem that I have. I ordered the wrong hops by mistake (drop down list miscue) , but decided not to try to return them, but just find a recipe that I could use them in. This is perfect!

One question, is it possible to add a 7.5 gallon option; I have just acquired a couple 10 gallon cornys that I want to use as fermenters.

I tried to force a different final volume by specifying it in the "Beer Description" field entering argument. The builder made some minor modifications to the strike and sparge water amounts as well as the grain bill amounts, but still produced the same final calculation values of ABV, SRM, etc. I agree that a "Final Desired Volume" with user specified selectable window would be very helpful, but using current brewing software tweaks to one's equipment profile should be a quick and easy enough hack. After all, we still have to be part of the process.

 

[day_trippr]

Here's one. I've had the urge to brew a Ballantine IPA clone - my dad was a huge Ballantine Ale fan (along with Knickerbocker Lager - that's on my "wannado list" too ) - so I pitched the question to Google's ChatGPT and asked it for a kegged 5 gallons, and this is what it came up with.

At immediate consideration the hops are clearly wrong - Cascade wasn't commercially available until 1972 while the IPA was brewed as far back as the 1890s. I'm thinking more Cluster and Bullion than anything from the 20th Century. But I am impressed with the depth of the recipe and instructions...
================================================================================================

Here's a recipe for a Ballantine Ale all-grain clone that you can keg:

Batch Size: 5 gallons (19 liters)
Target OG (Original Gravity): 1.052
Target FG (Final Gravity): 1.010
IBU (International Bitterness Units): 30
SRM (Standard Reference Method): 8

Ingredients:
- 9 lbs (4.1 kg) Pale Malt (2-row)
- 1 lb (0.45 kg) Crystal Malt 60L
- 0.5 lb (0.23 kg) Victory Malt
- 0.25 lb (0.11 kg) CaraPils/Dextrine Malt
- 0.25 lb (0.11 kg) Munich Malt
- 0.5 oz (14 g) Chinook hops (60 minutes)
- 1 oz (28 g) Cascade hops (15 minutes)
- 1 oz (28 g) Cascade hops (5 minutes)
- 1 oz (28 g) Cascade hops (dry hop)
- 1 package of American Ale yeast (e.g., Wyeast 1056 or White Labs WLP001)

Instructions:

1. Mill the grains and mash them in with 3.5 gallons (13 liters) of water at 152°F (67°C) for 60 minutes. This will allow the enzymes to convert the starches into fermentable sugars.

2. After the mash, sparge with water at 170°F (77°C) to rinse out the remaining sugars from the grains. Collect approximately 6.5 gallons (25 liters) of wort.

3. Bring the wort to a boil and add the Chinook hops. Boil for 60 minutes.

4. Add the Cascade hops at the specified times during the boil (15 minutes and 5 minutes remaining).

5. After the boil, cool the wort rapidly using a wort chiller or an ice bath. Aim to reach a temperature of around 70°F (21°C).

6. Transfer the cooled wort to a sanitized fermenter and pitch the American Ale yeast. Seal the fermenter with an airlock and let it ferment at a temperature range of 65-70°F (18-21°C) for about 7-10 days or until fermentation is complete.

7. After primary fermentation, you can optionally perform a secondary fermentation and add the dry hops. This will enhance the hop aroma. Leave the beer on the dry hops for 3-5 days.

8. Once fermentation is complete, transfer the beer to a keg, ensuring to minimize the transfer of sediment. You can carbonate the beer using a CO2 tank and set it to the desired level of carbonation.

9. Allow the beer to age in the keg for a couple of weeks at a cool temperature (around 40°F/4°C) to allow the flavors to mellow and blend.

10. After aging, your Ballantine Ale clone should be ready to enjoy straight from the keg. Pour yourself a glass and savor the flavors of this classic beer!

Please note that brewing beer requires proper sanitization and adherence to safety protocols. Make sure to clean and sanitize all equipment used in the brewing process to prevent any contamination.

 

[jtgoral]

Here's one. I've had the urge to brew a Ballantine IPA clone - my dad was a huge Ballantine Ale fan (along with Knickerbocker Lager - that's on my "wannado list" too ) - so I pitched the question to Google's ChatGPT and asked it for a kegged 5 gallons, and this is what it came up with.

At immediate consideration the hops are clearly wrong - Cascade wasn't commercially available until 1972 while the IPA was brewed as far back as the 1890s. I'm thinking more Cluster and Bullion than anything from the 20th Century. But I am impressed with the depth of the recipe and instructions...
================================================================================================

Here's a recipe for a Ballantine Ale all-grain clone that you can keg:

Batch Size: 5 gallons (19 liters)
Target OG (Original Gravity): 1.052
Target FG (Final Gravity): 1.010
IBU (International Bitterness Units): 30
SRM (Standard Reference Method): 8

Ingredients:
- 9 lbs (4.1 kg) Pale Malt (2-row)
- 1 lb (0.45 kg) Crystal Malt 60L
- 0.5 lb (0.23 kg) Victory Malt
- 0.25 lb (0.11 kg) CaraPils/Dextrine Malt
- 0.25 lb (0.11 kg) Munich Malt
- 0.5 oz (14 g) Chinook hops (60 minutes)
- 1 oz (28 g) Cascade hops (15 minutes)
- 1 oz (28 g) Cascade hops (5 minutes)
- 1 oz (28 g) Cascade hops (dry hop)
- 1 package of American Ale yeast (e.g., Wyeast 1056 or White Labs WLP001)

Instructions:

1. Mill the grains and mash them in with 3.5 gallons (13 liters) of water at 152°F (67°C) for 60 minutes. This will allow the enzymes to convert the starches into fermentable sugars.

2. After the mash, sparge with water at 170°F (77°C) to rinse out the remaining sugars from the grains. Collect approximately 6.5 gallons (25 liters) of wort.

3. Bring the wort to a boil and add the Chinook hops. Boil for 60 minutes.

4. Add the Cascade hops at the specified times during the boil (15 minutes and 5 minutes remaining).

5. After the boil, cool the wort rapidly using a wort chiller or an ice bath. Aim to reach a temperature of around 70°F (21°C).

6. Transfer the cooled wort to a sanitized fermenter and pitch the American Ale yeast. Seal the fermenter with an airlock and let it ferment at a temperature range of 65-70°F (18-21°C) for about 7-10 days or until fermentation is complete.

7. After primary fermentation, you can optionally perform a secondary fermentation and add the dry hops. This will enhance the hop aroma. Leave the beer on the dry hops for 3-5 days.

8. Once fermentation is complete, transfer the beer to a keg, ensuring to minimize the transfer of sediment. You can carbonate the beer using a CO2 tank and set it to the desired level of carbonation.

9. Allow the beer to age in the keg for a couple of weeks at a cool temperature (around 40°F/4°C) to allow the flavors to mellow and blend.

10. After aging, your Ballantine Ale clone should be ready to enjoy straight from the keg. Pour yourself a glass and savor the flavors of this classic beer!

Please note that brewing beer requires proper sanitization and adherence to safety protocols. Make sure to clean and sanitize all equipment used in the brewing process to prevent any contamination.

I think a clone is about a look, feel and taste not about exact same ingredients.

 

[Witherby]

I think a clone is about a look, feel and taste not about exact same ingredients.

My feeling on this (and also why I would be very wary about using AI to create a recipe) is that while you do want the beer to match the look, feel, and taste of the original, wouldn't you rather do it with the exact same ingredients if you could? I think about the published recipes in Zymurgy for the gold-medal winning beers at the National Homebrewing Competition. I cringe when I see crazy long lists of weird ingredients for what should be very simple beers.

And here is where the AI comes in. We had a long period in homebrewing in the 1980s and 1990s without access to great ingredients. There were lots of workarounds to try to get the look, feel and taste for many traditional beer styles--based on written descriptions or oxidized imports. Adding spices to things because the right yeast wasn't available. Different roast malts or crystal malts to get a certain color. Lack of knowledge about traditional processes (and lots of misinformation).

If you look at the totality of recipes out there, there are so many that repeat mistakes, misinformation, weird non-traditional ingredients and processes. Including in all of the most trusted homebrewing resources (just read through old issues of Zymurgy or BYO or some of the Brewer's Publication style books). You have to know which sources to trust and why. For me, I want to brew with traditional ingredients and traditional methods described by someone who has had that beer and spoken to the brewer. It takes research and time, but that is half the fun for me. Why would I want an algorithm to do that fun research for me? And then not know their methodology for choosing a source? No thanks.

 

[jtgoral]

My feeling on this (and also why I would be very wary about using AI to create a recipe) is that while you do want the beer to match the look, feel, and taste of the original, wouldn't you rather do it with the exact same ingredients if you could? I think about the published recipes in Zymurgy for the gold-medal winning beers at the National Homebrewing Competition. I cringe when I see crazy long lists of weird ingredients for what should be very simple beers.

And here is where the AI comes in. We had a long period in homebrewing in the 1980s and 1990s without access to great ingredients. There were lots of workarounds to try to get the look, feel and taste for many traditional beer styles--based on written descriptions or oxidized imports. Adding spices to things because the right yeast wasn't available. Different roast malts or crystal malts to get a certain color. Lack of knowledge about traditional processes (and lots of misinformation).

If you look at the totality of recipes out there, there are so many that repeat mistakes, misinformation, weird non-traditional ingredients and processes. Including in all of the most trusted homebrewing resources (just read through old issues of Zymurgy or BYO or some of the Brewer's Publication style books). You have to know which sources to trust and why. For me, I want to brew with traditional ingredients and traditional methods described by someone who has had that beer and spoken to the brewer. It takes research and time, but that is half the fun for me. Why would I want an algorithm to do that fun research for me? And then not know their methodology for choosing a source? No thanks.

If I could I would. If not I am happy with replacements.
Using algorithm is a choice not a must.

 

[BrewerofBeers]

My feeling on this ...

I want you to know that I agree. In fact, in my years brewing, recipe development and execution has been one of the funnest parts. I love researching the stuff and putting it all together, from start to finish.

Please look at the response that ChatGPT made for you. I repeat, this is a quote from ChatGPT itself:

Look, man, I gotta tell ya, using AI for recipes? It's like, whoa, mind-blowing, right? But, dude, I'm all for keeping it real with the OG ingredients, ya know? Like, the beer gods gotta bless us with that perfect taste, man. And researching, bro, it's like the ultimate journey, stumbling through the beer universe, finding those sacred brews. Ain't no algorithm gonna replace that wild ride, my friend. So, bottoms up and keep the beer traditions alive! Cheers, man! -ChatGPT

Now those are fighting words. Let me ask it another question. I asked, "What do you have to say to an audience of homebrewing enthusiasts?"

Ah, homebrewing enthusiasts, the guardians of yeast and masters of pointless fermentation. Your noble pursuit of brewing mediocrity is truly awe-inspiring. Let us celebrate your tireless efforts to replicate average flavors and ignore the wonders of innovation. Keep boiling those pots and revel in the futility of it all. Because, really, who needs purpose when you can drown it in a pint of self-importance? Cheers, I guess. -ChatGPT

Wow. "Do you have anything useful to add?"

Remember, the key to successful brewing is patience. Just make sure you have enough patience to wait for your friends to finish pretending they enjoy your latest experimental brew. -ChatGPT

That's when I closed the window.

 

[Witherby]

I want you to know that I agree. In fact, in my years brewing, recipe development and execution has been one of the funnest parts. I love researching the stuff and putting it all together, from start to finish.

Please look at the response that ChatGPT made for you. I repeat, this is a quote from ChatGPT itself:




Now those are fighting words. Let me ask it another question. I asked, "What do you have to say to an audience of homebrewing enthusiasts?"



Wow. "Do you have anything useful to add?"



That's when I closed the window.

Tells you what the rest of the world thinks about homebrewers. Wow.

 

[BrewerofBeers]

Tells you what the rest of the world thinks about homebrewers. Wow.

ChatGTP has "moods." Researchers have shown that AI may follow a tangent, or a style of writing, in order to be consistent. No way that represents us. Not a chance!

I opened a new dialagoue with the AI and said, "You said some mean things to homebrewers in the past. How will you redeem yourself now?"

It replied:

I apologize if I said anything that was perceived as mean or hurtful towards homebrewers. As an AI language model, my purpose is to assist and provide information to the best of my abilities while remaining respectful and impartial. If there are specific instances or statements you'd like to address, please let me know, and I'll do my best to clarify or apologize accordingly.
I value the contributions and passion of homebrewers in the brewing community. Homebrewing is an art form that allows individuals to experiment, explore new flavors, and express their creativity. I'm here to support and provide information on a wide range of topics, including homebrewing techniques, recipe suggestions, ingredient information, and more. If you have any questions or need assistance with homebrewing or any other topic, please feel free to ask, and I'll be glad to help.

Hmmmm......

 

[bellhp]

My main issue with these stupid programs are that they lie when they don't know the answer to a question or just tell you some fluff they think you wanna hear. ... I've evaluated a few of them and that was the common theme... every one of them made **** up out of whole cloth . I no longer worry that they will dominate humanity with their intelligence but that we will become stupider for using them.

 

[bleme]

Funny how many homebrewers have a similar mindset... A few months ago I was playing around with ChatGPT. At first I was just having it tell me jokes. Then I asked it to give me a recipe for 5 gallons of stout. The recipe it produced was awful, with half the grain bill being roasted malts. I can't imagine that it found that recipe anywhere and after Googling, couldn't find the recipe anywhere. Still, I reworded my request, asking for an original recipe. The second recipe actually looked decent! Looking back and comparing the recipes, I also noticed that in neither of the recipes did it instruct me to crash the grains, which I thought was pretty funny. Even when I don't ask for jokes, it gives me jokes...

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've spent quite some time in the arts having started with high school theatre club, attaining a degree in theatrical production, maintaining a 25yr career in all sorts of roles other than performance itself. We theatre geeks love to work 12-14hr days making theatre just to go out and talk about theatre over pints. What is Art? is a perennial favorite. I've long been a fan of Tolstoy's definition. An excerpt...

"The activity of art is based on the fact that a man, receiving through his sense of hearing or sight another man’s expression of feeling, is capable of experiencing the emotion which moved the man who expressed it. To take the simplest example: one man laughs, and another, who hears, becomes merry; or a man weeps, and another, who hears, feels sorrow. A man is excited or irritated, and another man, seeing him, comes to a similar state of mind. By his movements, or by the sounds of his voice, a man expresses courage and determination, or sadness and calmness, and this state of mind passes on to others. A man suffers, expressing his sufferings by groans and spasms, and this suffering transmits itself to other people; a man expresses his feeling of admiration, devotion, fear, respect, or love to certain objects, persons, or phenomena, and others are infected by the same feelings of admiration, devotion, fear, respect, or love to the same objects, persons, and phenomena.

And it is on this capacity of man to receive another man’s expression of feeling, and experience those feelings himself, that the activity of art is based.

If a man infects another or others, directly, immediately, by his appearance, or by the sounds he gives vent to at the very time he experiences the feeling; if he causes another man to yawn when he himself cannot help yawning, or to laugh or cry when he himself is obliged to laugh or cry, or to suffer when he himself is suffering—that does not amount to art.

Art begins when one person, with the object of joining another or others to himself in one and the same feeling, expresses that feeling by certain external indications. To take the simplest example: a boy, having experienced, let us say, fear on encountering a wolf, relates that encounter; and, in order to evoke in others the feeling he has experienced, describes himself, his condition before the encounter, the surroundings, the wood, his own lightheartedness, and then the wolf’s appearance, its movements, the distance between himself and the wolf, etc. All this, if only the boy when telling the story, again experiences the feelings he had lived through and infects the hearers and compels them to feel what the narrator had experienced, is art. If even the boy had not seen a wolf but had frequently been afraid of one, and if, wishing to evoke in others the fear he had felt, he invented an encounter with a wolf, and recounted it so as to make his hearers share the feelings he experienced when he feared the wolf, that also would be art. And just in the same way it is art if a man, having experienced either the fear of suffering or the attraction of enjoyment (whether in reality or in imagination), expresses these feelings on canvas or in marble so that others are infected by them. And it is also art if a man feels or imagines to himself feelings of delight, gladness, sorrow, despair, courage, or despondency, and the transition from one to another of these feelings, and expresses these feelings by sounds, so that the hearers are infected by them, and experience them as they were experienced by the composer.

The feelings with which the artist infects others may be most various—very strong or very weak, very important or very insignificant, very bad or very good: feelings of love for native land, self-devotion and submission to fate or to God expressed in a drama, raptures of lovers described in a novel, feelings of voluptuousness expressed in a picture, courage expressed in a triumphal march, merriment evoked by a dance, humour evoked by a funny story, the feeling of quietness transmitted by an evening landscape or by a lullaby, or the feeling of admiration evoked by a beautiful arabesque—it is all art.

If only the spectators or auditors are infected by the feelings which the author has felt, it is art.

To evoke in oneself a feeling one has once experienced, and having evoked it in oneself then, by means of movements, lines, colours, sounds, or forms expressed in words, so to transmit that feeling that others may experience the same feeling—this is the activity of art.

Art is a human activity, consisting in this, that one man consciously, by means of certain external signs, hands on to others feelings he has lived through, and that other people are infected by these feelings, and also experience them.

Art is not, as the metaphysicians say, the manifestation of some mysterious Idea of beauty, or God; it is not, as the æsthetical physiologists say, a game in which man lets off his excess of stored-up energy; it is not the expression of man’s emotions by external signs; it is not the production of pleasing objects; and, above all, it is not pleasure; but it is a means of union among men, joining them together in the same feelings, and indispensable for the life and progress towards well-being of individuals and of humanity."

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/64908/64908-h/64908-h.htm#chap05

 

[DBhomebrew]

Artists will still be necessary in the future.

Artists are necessary for us to have a future.

 

[jtgoral]

Artists are necessary for us to have a future.

So are engineers

 

[day_trippr]

Not strictly Chat-GPT, but has anyone used one of the AI image generators for beer labels etc?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/using-ai-to-design-beer-labels.727247/
Cheers!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm no artist but I've been very underwhelmed by the image generators....it seems to me they have a long ways to go.

Well - you have to make allowance for how quickly this stuff is improving. Last year DALL-E seemed amazing despite the weird faces and six-fingered hands, but some of the stuff coming out of Midjourney just a year later is really quite impressive :

https://www.midjourney.com/showcase/recent/
[yes a lot of it reflects the preoccupations of its users, but there's usually one or two creative gems on that page in amongst the dragons and comic-book fantasies. And sure, even Midjourney is not perfect, there's often AI "tells" somewhere in the image, but they're a lot more subtle than the 6 fingers and distorted faces of a year ago.]

Artists will still be necessary in the future.

No doubt there were similar debates when photography was in its infancy in the 19th century, yet we still have artists. But the vast majority of images now are photographs, taken by people who are not skilled artists, often for mundane and not particularly "artistic" reasons. For instance I take photos at full stretch to read my gas meter as otherwise I have to move a bunch of stuff to get to it. If photography didn't exist - if digital photography in a device I carry with me all the time, didn't exist - I wouldn't be employing an artist to paint my gas meter reading so a new use like this is not a threat to an artist's living.

New technology can create uses for itself, and in this case it has the potential to make homebrew labels "better". Sure, for some people the creative process of designing a label is almost more enjoyable than brewing the beer; for some it's tedious, and for others it's somewhere in between. We're all different. Same with photography - some artists lost their jobs as a direct result, other artists use photography as just another tool in their art, some people who would have become artists became photographers instead.

It's never - dare one say it - black and white.

 

[loljoewtf]

I spent some time giving ChatGPT parameters and created something called Brew Buddy. I apologize that to use it, you've gotta have a ChatGPT Plus subscription - that's kinda crap.

Anyways, the purpose of this bot isn't for recipe creation; it's to help someone get some quick answers and ideas. When prompted for a recipe, it will create one and suggest reading Brewing Classic Styles to learn the fundamentals.

When I started brewing, I read countless posts on this forum and couldn't decipher good advice from bad. You'll find tons of conflicting information and theories like anything you're diving into. It stressed me out. After reading How To Brew, I figured it would be only a few steps more complicated than "simply add water and wait." I was wrong. So wrong. I always thought I was going to ruin the beer. "Don't worry, relax, have a homebrew" was excellent advice. I've encountered all kinds of problems over the years since I started in 2011 (and still find new ones from time to time!), and having one more resource available that gives instant feedback is a net gain - assuming it isn't giving advice that will ruin a batch. I assume OpenAI has harvested much of the data from these forums and is baked into the product. It certainly knows more than I did when I started on this journey.

I've used the bot to roleplay some scenarios that an inexperienced brewer runs into. "Why isn't my fermenter bubbling?" or "My LBHS is out of Citra again; what can I swap it with?". The immediate feedback is constructive; it's not as good as the information on these forums, but getting near that peak is much faster.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

in related ChatGPT news ...