Can you Brew It recipe for Firestone Walker Union Jack

[WortMonger]

About the original recipe at the top of the post, I did hear Jamil smear the words seventeen on the 90 minute Warrior addition. I hope this gets changed before you do a CYBI recipe for Beersmith. Also, at the end of the cast, they mention "absolutely" that WLP007 is the yeast to use for this beer. Tasty even says, after Jamil says that Matt never said they use 007, that it is "pretty close to me." Now, I know Tasty never said exactly what yeast he used, and Jamil was the only one to give the recipe (saying in that part that WLP002 should be used) prior to Tasty's comments at the end about the 007 seeming perfect. Tasty gave me the impression he used 007 in his beer. I know this has been discussed earlier in this thread, but I have not heard a resolve or seen a change in the recipe.

What say you? Change the recipe to show the warrior hops AA% and/or change the yeast to match the vagueness of the podcast based on words of the actual brewer?

Not trying to start a picking and poking match, just worried that when it comes to the Beersmith recipes this might be misrepresented (which if you understand how freaked out I am about my own contributions to Beersmith recipes, you will understand my own paranoia, lol).

 

[WortMonger]

Yep! I am dry hopping mine in primary right now. 3 oz in primary and 3 oz in secondary. I figure using whole cones (as I am) I will lose about a gallon to the hops. I converted to OZ, and rounded down a bit 1 oz = 28 grams 6oz=168 grams.

It is a buttload of dry hops for sure

BTW, I got a response from Tasty over on Brewing Network, and he confirmed that he used WLP 002, but that WLP 007 is also a good choice. I used 007. I hit 1.012 in 4 days with 007 using the 145/155 mash schedule.

I guess I missed this post! So, I guess the hops is all I am asking about now, sorry Eric.

 

[BigJay13]

Iirc I used 002 and ended up with a fg around 1016 with a single rest at 148. I think I will use 007 next time. The recipe is fantastic no matter what you do.

 

[scottland]

.....Also, at the end of the cast, they mention "absolutely" that WLP007 is the yeast to use for this beer....

What say you? Change the recipe to show the warrior hops AA% and/or change the yeast to match the vagueness of the podcast based on words of the actual brewer?

A. The AA for warrior is obviously not 7%, It's definitely 17%. I'm positive that was a mistake when he read it, as I've never seen warrior under 15%.

In interviews with Matt Brylindson, he said they've used Warrior, Summit and CTZ all interchangeably as a bittering hop for their beers. They use so little of it at 90min, that the flavor contribution is nil. Those hops are all 15% +, so I would calc the recipe at 17% AA

B. The yeast. I'd use WLP007. It's a little cleaner than 002, and it's drier. I drink Union Jack quite a bit, and I don't get that many esters in the beer. Which leads me to think it's something similar to 007. Very similar yeast character to Stone, and it's been rumored they use 007, or something identical.

There are a good number of US breweries that use English yeasts, but they always seem to use a more attenuative, and cleaner strain than the typical WLP002 or 1968. I'm not saying that every one of these breweries uses WLP007, but it is truly is our best option for a clean, dry, english yeast. S04 would be my second pick.

I use WLP007 A LOT as it's my house yeast. I'd recommend starting the ferment a little cooler 62F (17C), and hold it there for the first 2-3 days, or as soon as fermentation starts to slow down. At that point, ramp the temp up to 70F (21C) to help drive up the attenuation. WLP007 will attenuate well, but it flocs out so hard, that if it stays too cold, it'll just drop out too early.

 

[duckmanco]

I'm about to brew this up but want everyone's input on a dry yeast option. I'm thinking either s04 or Nottingham either fermented cool. I have a fridge with a digital temp controller, so which option:

1. Nottingham - pitch and hold at 59f BUT mash higher than the prescribed 145 - what temp?
2. S04 - pitch cool 60-62, but unsure if I would need to mash higher or not.

Also, what's the FG we're looking for here?

 

[TimBrewz]

I used Wyeast 1098/WLP 007 on mine, which is basically the same yeast as S-04, (Whitbread strain) so I would use S-04. Mine was great-just about a perfect clone. F.G. was in the 1.014 range. Mash with the 145/155 schedule. Ferment in the mid 60's for a super clean ferment, higher if you want more esters.

 

[wookiemofo]

Just got done brewing this. First time doing a step mash temp with my cooler setup... OG came in at 1.062... 60% eff. Excited to give this a go.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Going to brew two batches of this soon (two different parties) - a good way to get rid of the piles of hops I have around and then restock.

After reading this thread, I too was curious about WLP002 vs. WLP007.

Just crunching the numbers, if the beer is 7.5% ABV with an OG of 1.070, that means we need to get to an FG of 1.013. That means 81.43% attenuation. I just don't see how that is possible with WLP002. From White Labs:

WLP002:
Attenuation: 63-70%
Flocculation: Very High
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-68°F
(18-20°C)
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium

WLP007:
Attenuation: 70-80%
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-70°F
(18-21°C)
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High



So I'm choosing WLP007 and following the exact mash schedule in the first post. I'll make a nice starter for the first batch, then pitch the proper amount of slurry for the second batch. I'll be sure and post my results.

And BTW, I've used S-04 in the past and thought it left a strange Ester profile (even when fermenting cool). Interested to see my results with WLP007 which is supposed to be the same strain.

 

[AnchorBock]

I just brewed this recipe with hops i had laying around. I did a 90 min mash, 60 at 145 and 30 at 155. Og was 1.070, Fg 1.010. That was with 002. If you treat it right 002 can attenuate like crazy. Ive gotten 80% or higher mashing at 148 with 002 in the past as well.

 

[BigJay13]

Did anyone listen to the show this week? I guess they tried to clone it again and had Mitch on the show again. It's not up on iTunes yet so I haven't heard it.

 

[duckmanco]

Wrong beer? You thinking Mitch from Stone? If I remember right they cloned the hell out of UJ, so I'm guessing it's another Arrogant Bastard clone attempt?

 

[bolts]

I just brewed this recipe with hops i had laying around. I did a 90 min mash, 60 at 145 and 30 at 155. Og was 1.070, Fg 1.010. That was with 002. If you treat it right 002 can attenuate like crazy. Ive gotten 80% or higher mashing at 148 with 002 in the past as well.

+1

I regularly get 80%+ from WLP002. It's a beast when given a chance.

 

[BigJay13]

Wrong beer? You thinking Mitch from Stone? If I remember right they cloned the hell out of UJ, so I'm guessing it's another Arrogant Bastard clone attempt?

Ha you're right. I'm subscribed to each thread and they have similar thread titles. This uj recipe is golden with the 002.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Sounds good then guys, I'll go for the 002 then. I usually get good attenuation with my process (big starter, yeast nutrient, lots of aeration) so if you're seeing those kind of results with the strain I bet I will too.

 

[AnchorBock]

Sounds good then guys, I'll go for the 002 then. I usually get good attenuation with my process (big starter, yeast nutrient, lots of aeration) so if you're seeing those kind of results with the strain I bet I will too.

You can always consider increasing your mash time as well to produce a more fermentable wort.

 

[scottland]

I'm going to be brewing UJ and Double Jack clones in the next two months. I was planning on going with 007, but now I'll roll with 002 after hearing you guys had good success with attenuation. I'll report back how it goes. On their website, they now say UJ has a little Chinook in the dry hop now. I'm going to throw a .5oz in the second dry hop addition, so we'll see how it turns out.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

I saw that as well on the Chinook, I'll prob do the same as well as sub for a little more Simcoe (personal taste).


I put a fresh vial of WLP002 on the stirplate with 1.5L of 1.040 starter wort, and not only did ferment through in less than 24 hours, the yeast actually started flocculating into clumps while the stir bar was spinning full speed. It looked like Hot and Sour soup. Once I turned the power off it dropped almost like sand, most flocculant yeast I've ever seen. A pretty thick layer of almost white yeast at the bottom of the flask.

Brewing tomorrow, can't wait!

 

[AnchorBock]

I saw that as well on the Chinook, I'll prob do the same as well as sub for a little more Simcoe (personal taste).

I put a fresh vial of WLP002 on the stirplate with 1.5L of 1.040 starter wort, and not only did ferment through in less than 24 hours, the yeast actually started flocculating into clumps while the stir bar was spinning full speed. It looked like Hot and Sour soup. Once I turned the power off it dropped almost like sand, most flocculant yeast I've ever seen. A pretty thick layer of almost white yeast at the bottom of the flask.

Brewing tomorrow, can't wait!

One of the many reasons I use 002 in anything i can possibly think of. I can be drinking clear beer 2 weeks from brew day with no finings, brilliant beer by 4 weeks.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Just wanted to post an update - I ended up brewing this beer on 6/29. Hit an OG of 1.073 so I added some water to bring it down to 1.070. Followed the mash schedule exactly, and of course used WLP002 as I pointed out above.

I got amazing attenuation. Right now after 7 days I'm at 1.013-4 and it's still slightly active so I'm sure I'll end around 1.012. Shouldn't have doubted this yeast for a second. Had no problem getting 80%+ attenuation with that mash schedule, a nice healthy starter, and yeast nutrient plus servomyces in the boil. Hydrometer sample tasted dead on for UJ. Just dropped in my first round of dry hops. Very excited.

 

[uright]

Long time lurker...

Interested to hear what methods people used for the flame out hop additions and what the results were. Aroma steep? Whirlpool?

Following the advice on the show I did a 30 min aroma steep after flame out. Then cooled with my immersion chiller. Took a total of 20 mins to go from 190 to pitching temp. I found the finished product to be lacking in aroma. The hop flavor and bitterness were a little more pronounced than UJ. In the future I plan to aroma steep for 10-15 after flameout then chill.

 

[bobbrews]

Try this:

After the boil, chill the wort to 160 F as quickly as possible with your wort chiller - Add 2-4 oz pellet hops for a 5-6 gallon batch - Slow chill with a cold water ice bath (no wort chiller) down to 65 F for approx. 30 minutes.

Awesome aroma everytime for me, but it also depends on your recipe and process.

 

[TimBrewz]

I have brewed this twice, and steeped the late hops for about 20 min each time. I brewed a 10 gallon batch about 7 weeks ago and split in to 2 fermenters. I started by only dry hopping one fermenter, and that is where all the aroma was. The non-dry hopped beer was only moderately hoppy in aroma but huge hop flavor and firm bitterness. I too, expected more aroma from the massive dose of hops at flameout. (Later, I dry hopped the other half in the keg and the beer was much better.)

So, I would say that the dry hopping is really where the aroma comes from in this beer. I did the 2 dry hop additions-one at end of primary and one in secondary, as the recipe calls for. The dry hopped beer seemed more balanced too, I think the aroma balances the bitterness.

Long time lurker...

Interested to hear what methods people used for the flame out hop additions and what the results were. Aroma steep? Whirlpool?

Following the advice on the show I did a 30 min aroma steep after flame out. Then cooled with my immersion chiller. Took a total of 20 mins to go from 190 to pitching temp. I found the finished product to be lacking in aroma. The hop flavor and bitterness were a little more pronounced than UJ. In the future I plan to aroma steep for 10-15 after flameout then chill.

 

[uright]

Thanks for the info Bob. How long does it take ya to cool from 160 to pitching temps usually?

 

[bobbrews]

With a wort chiller? Depends on the wort chiller and the batch size. I would say less than 10 minutes on average.

 

[uright]

I meant from 160-pitch temp using the ice batch. Sorry

 

[bobbrews]

I meant from 160-pitch temp using the ice batch. Sorry

I said above, "Slow chill with a cold water ice bath (no wort chiller) down to 65 F for approx. 30 minutes."

 

[uright]

Try this:

After the boil, chill the wort to 160 F as quickly as possible with your wort chiller - Add 2-4 oz pellet hops for a 5-6 gallon batch - Slow chill with a cold water ice bath (no wort chiller) down to 65 F for approx. 30 minutes.

Awesome aroma everytime for me, but it also depends on your recipe and process.

Thank again Bob. I plan on doing 3 batches in two days using the same recipe. One batch using the standard chill asap method. One using a 15 mins steep after flameout, and one using your method.

If this recipe calls for 4oz at flame out should I use all 4oz at your 160 steep? Do 2oz at flameout and 2oz at 160 instead?

 

[bobbrews]

For a regular IPA, I recommend 6-9 oz. total hops, 90% of which are used at 15 min or less.

Depending on the recipe, (1/2 oz) 60 min (1/2 to 3/4 oz) 30 or 20 min (2 oz) 10 min (2 oz) 0 min and (3 oz) DH is an awesome schedule with pellet hops.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Just wanted to post an update - I ended up brewing this beer on 6/29. Hit an OG of 1.073 so I added some water to bring it down to 1.070. Followed the mash schedule exactly, and of course used WLP002 as I pointed out above.

I got amazing attenuation. Right now after 7 days I'm at 1.013-4 and it's still slightly active so I'm sure I'll end around 1.012. Shouldn't have doubted this yeast for a second. Had no problem getting 80%+ attenuation with that mash schedule, a nice healthy starter, and yeast nutrient plus servomyces in the boil. Hydrometer sample tasted dead on for UJ. Just dropped in my first round of dry hops. Very excited.

Working in the garage today and tapped this keg of FW Union Jack clone (a bit early but I'm impatient). Finished at 1.012. Pretty damn close, mine is still a slightly cloudy but has only been in the keg 3 days. Hop profile seems almost the same - maybe a little light on the aroma - but I'm doing the second dry hop in the keg. Looking forward to this one.

 

[DrinkNoH2O]

Had a party Saturday night and ended up kicking the whole keg of this... Even pulled out an actual bottle of FW UJ IPA and compared. Pretty much dead on except mine was still cloudy from the dry hopping.