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Can you Brew It recipe for Firestone Walker Union Jack

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EricCSU

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All recipes are (unless otherwise specified): 6 gallons post-boil, 70% efficiency, Morey for color, 15% evaporation, 7.27 gallons preboil, Rager IBU, and most hops are in grams not ounces. Most, if not all recipes are primary only (no secondary).

If you brew this, please reply with your results for discussion.

OG 1070
IBUs 82.7
SRM 6

6.3kg Pale Malt 81.9%
100g Simpson's Caramalt 1.3%
900g Munich 11.8%
380g Carapils 5%

90 minute boil

25g Warrior 7%AA at 90m
18g Cascade 7%AA at 30m
18g Centennial 10.5%AA at 30m
52g Cascade at 0m
52g Centennial at 0m
44g Centennial dry hop dose 1
44g Cascade dry hop dose 1

30g Cascade dry hop dose 2
30g Centennial dry hop dose 2
14g Amarillo dry hop dose 2
14g Simcoe dry hop dose 2

WLP002

Mash at 145F for 60m, 155F for 10m, then mash out

RO Water. Add gypsum and CaCl to 100ppm

Cool to 17C and pitch, raise to 19C after 24 hours.

Discussion Notes:
Tasty used a whirlpool for 30 minutes. If you can not whirlpool, it sounds like you can just turn the flame off and let the flame-out hops steep for 30 minutes before cooling. Tasty added dose 1 of the dry hops when the beer was within 1/2 degree plato. Three days later, he dropped the hops out of the conical. Then he added the second dose of dry hops. Tasty substituted Carastan for the Caramalt.

If you are not using a conical, Tasty recommends doing dose 1 of dry hop in primary, transferring to secondary and adding dose 2 of the dry hop.
 
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EricCSU

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hey Eric, are those warrior supposed to be 7% AA?
No, I believe that they are supposed to be 17%AA. Jamil was mumbling and I wasn't paying attention. Unless your Warrior hops are four years old, I don't think you'll find any at that level.:tank:

Thanks for catching that.

Eric
 

TimBrewz

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Thanks for this, I just listened to the show, and I was tough to pick up all the details the first time around. UJ is one of the best IPAs out there!
 

maximus

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No, I believe that they are supposed to be 17%AA. Jamil was mumbling and I wasn't paying attention. Unless your Warrior hops are four years old, I don't think you'll find any at that level.:tank:

Thanks for catching that.

Eric
Well, I learned a lesson from this one. I brewed this up a few days ago using the 7%AA in your recipe as a reference for my 90 minute bittering addition. I never plugged all of the numbers into Beersmith to get a total estimated IBU. This was a spur of the moment, thrown together brew. Only ended up putting in 12g of a 14.6%AA hop for the 90 minute addition. Probably going to be about 26 IBU short of the desired IBU. My estimated IBU is 56.4. Rookie mistake on my part. I brewed a recent IPA with an estimate IBU of 62 with a similar OG and the beer turned out great. There are still plenty of hops to balance out the malt. This won't be a clone, but I am sure it will be a good beer. I will let you know how it turns out.

I am also interested in the effect of the large late hop addition with 30 minute hot steep. I have never done this before.
 

schielke

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Bummer on the hopping! I am sure it will still be pretty nice though.

How has the fermentation gone for most folks? The English Ale yeast isn't a huge attenuator and this beer needs a nice dry finish. Have people had any trouble getting down to a low enough gravity?
 

TimBrewz

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Maximus, just curious- what hops did you use instead of Warrior? ( I am assuming you did not find any 7% Warrior).
 

TimBrewz

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Bummer on the hopping! I am sure it will still be pretty nice though.

How has the fermentation gone for most folks? The English Ale yeast isn't a huge attenuator and this beer needs a nice dry finish. Have people had any trouble getting down to a low enough gravity?
This is a confusing point in the show, I hear WLP 002 at the beginning of the show, then WLP 007 at the end. WLP 002(same as Wyeast 1968) is the Fuller's ESB yeast, and not a very dry yeast, you might get in the 70-74% attenuation range if you pitch a lot of it. The WLP 007 on the other hand, is the Whitbred Dry English Ale Yeast-a very attenuative strain. I think that the beer calls for WLP 007 (same as Wyeast 1098) to be dry enough. I have used WLP 007 and it is really a powerhouse, about 80% attenuation if you use a starter.
 

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Maximus, just curious- what hops did you use instead of Warrior? ( I am assuming you did not find any 7% Warrior).
I didn't find a 7% Warrior, I just estimated the bittering of 90 minutes of 25 g of a 7% Warrior using 12 g of a 14.6% Columbus I had on hand. Warrior was the only hop I didn't have for the recipe. This is where the 26 IBU under hopping came in. I should have more than doubled my 90 minute bittering addition. The 7% Warrior did strike me as odd, but I just trusted the number and didn't calculate the total IBU's for the recipe.
 

maximus

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This is a confusing point in the show, I hear WLP 002 at the beginning of the show, then WLP 007 at the end. WLP 002(same as Wyeast 1968) is the Fuller's ESB yeast, and not a very dry yeast, you might get in the 70-74% attenuation range if you pitch a lot of it. The WLP 007 on the other hand, is the Whitbred Dry English Ale Yeast-a very attenuative strain. I think that the beer calls for WLP 007 (same as Wyeast 1098) to be dry enough. I have used WLP 007 and it is really a powerhouse, about 80% attenuation if you use a starter.
From what I remember from the first show that covered the basics for all of the recipes, I thought they stated that WLP002 was the house yeast for all of Firestone's beers. I think they talked about how they use WLP002 and Stone uses a strain more similar to WLP007. I think they talked about their higher attenuation with WLP002 is achieved by using a low temp mash @ 145 and then ramping up to 155, creating a highly fermentable wort. It has been a while since I listened to the episode though.

However, this was another area where I dropped the ball on this recipe. I went to a new LHBS in my area to get the ingredients and they do not carry white labs yeast. The owner assured me that WLP002 was the same as Wyeast 1028. I found out later this was not true and that Wyeast 1028 is equivalent to WLP013. I should have bought Wyeast 1968. The 1028 appears to have greater attenuation (73-77%) and less flocculation (medium to low) than WLP002. This might work out for the better, since I doubt I would have gotten adequate fermentability with my setup for the WLP002 strain. I did a 2liter starter with wyeast nutrients and oxygenated the wort adequately.

Not a clone, but I am hopeful it will turn out well. The hydrometer sample tasted great and the beer is chugging away, so we will see.
 

heywolfie1015

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From what I remember from the first show that covered the basics for all of the recipes, I thought they stated that WLP002 was the house yeast for all of Firestone's beers.
This is correct. He mentioned that they like the flavor and high flocculation they get from the strain.
 

TimBrewz

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This is correct. He mentioned that they like the flavor and high flocculation they get from the strain.

I did not listen to the other Firestone Walker shows, so you guys know more than I do. However, I just listened to the Union Jack show again, and at the very end-maybe 2 minutes remaining, the topic of yeast comes back up and they do reference Stone, and some other breweries, but it sure sounds like Jamil says that they are always guessing about the yeast, as no one ever tells them. Then says that 007 is the right yeast for this beer? I will try it with 007 and report back!
 

heywolfie1015

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Tim, at least on this one, I'd go with the recipe they suggest (if you're trying to clone 100%). The crew was convinced this is the closest clone they ever made, and Tasty apparently used WLP002. 007 will probably make a damn fine beer, though, so totally your call.
 

TimBrewz

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Tim, at least on this one, I'd go with the recipe they suggest (if you're trying to clone 100%). The crew was convinced this is the closest clone they ever made, and Tasty apparently used WLP002. 007 will probably make a damn fine beer, though, so totally your call.
Decisions, decisions. I just checked out the Brewing Network discussion board about this beer, and the same debate came up. Apparently the brewer, Matt said "English Ale" and one of the posters on that board said he toured the brewery and was told that FW uses 3 different English yeasts, and that UJ uses the more attenuative English strain.....hmmm. I see a 12 gallon split in my future- 6 gallons with 002 and 6 gallons with 007.

Thanks, Tim
 

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"RO Water. Add gypsum and CaCl to 100ppm"

What does this mean? Does anyone have a suggestion of a water profile for this beer?
 

TimBrewz

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"RO Water. Add gypsum and CaCl to 100ppm"

What does this mean? Does anyone have a suggestion of a water profile for this beer?
RO = Reverse Osmosis water: I get this water at a vending machine at my local supermarket. It is basically free of any minerals, chlorine, chloramides, etc.

Adding gypsum and CaCl to 100 ppm is based on 6 gallons of wort. I don't have the brewing calculator handy, but here is Palmer's intro to water adjustment.
 

jmsullivan73

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RO = Reverse Osmosis water: I get this water at a vending machine at my local supermarket. It is basically free of any minerals, chlorine, chloramides, etc.

Adding gypsum and CaCl to 100 ppm is based on 6 gallons of wort. I don't have the brewing calculator handy, but here is Palmer's intro to water adjustment.
Thanks for the reply. I guess my question was not very clear... It seems you would add x grams of gypsum (CaSO4) and and y grams CaCl to create a water profile containing - Ca, Cl, and SO4 (completely neglecting Mg, Na, or bicarbonates). Of these, which ones are to be at 100ppm? Also, for a hoppy beer it seems that you would want a sulfate to chlorine ratio around 3:1. That being said, I would suspect SO4 should be closer to 300 if Cl is 100 and Ca around 100?

Any thoughts?
 
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EricCSU

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Thanks for the reply. I guess my question was not very clear... It seems you would add x grams of gypsum (CaSO4) and and y grams CaCl to create a water profile containing - Ca, Cl, and SO4 (completely neglecting Mg, Na, or bicarbonates). Of these, which ones are to be at 100ppm? Also, for a hoppy beer it seems that you would want a sulfate to chlorine ratio around 3:1. That being said, I would suspect SO4 should be closer to 300 if Cl is 100 and Ca around 100?

Any thoughts?
Unfortunately, I can not answer this question for you. I just type what I hear. I am just now starting to get into water chemistry. I would recommend looking at How To Brew, listening to the water shows on Brew Strong, and if that does not answer your question, contact Tasty. If you are on facebook, friend request him and ask him. He always seems very happy to answer questions.

Eric
 

Lenny2884

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Gonna brew this next weekend. Just concerned about getting 002 to attenuate down to 1.013-1.014. Anyone have success doing this with the 145-155 mash schedule?
 

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Will be brewing this on Friday. Look forward to everyone else's results. Brewing 10 gallons. Using 2L starter (or whatever MrMalty.com rec's) for first 5 gallons, and then 2 (think MrMalty.com said 2.7 vials) vials for 2nd 5 gallons. Will be interesting to see how the 2 different one's turn out.
 

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I brew this recipe over the Labor Day weekend. Followed the recipe for the most part. I was out of cascades and used amarillos instead. Hit my OG and is fermenting away now. I'll post how low it actually gets. I did make a 2.2L starter with 2 vials of 002 and oxygenated the wort...
 

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I brewed this recipe and I couldn't quite get the gravity that low. It's about a week and a half old and it's down to 1.018 or so. I'm a little disappointed, but it still tastes good I think. I mashed and fermented exactly like was said in the recipe. Maybe it'll drop another point or two but I doubt it. The only thing I can think of is that I may not have pitched quite enough yeast? I used the pitch rate calculator for slurry but maybe i should have used a little more? I'm very curious to see what everyone else's gets down to?
 

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I made a 10 gallon batch 17 days ago with a 1.5L healthy starter, I will be kegging it this weekend...I'll post my FG. It is currently sitting at 66degF per instructions, it had a healthy looking fermentation so we will see.
 

Douglefish

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So after my post the other day I raised the temp to 22 degrees C. I figured that since the yeast said it was good to that temp, and it may drop another couple of points I would give it a shot. Sure enough it looks like it dropped another 3 points. I'm down to 1.015 but wouldn't have gotten there without swirling the fermenter and raising the temp. I just added my second dry hop and hop it may drop another point or two.

I think the key for the next time I brew this is to cool in at 16 or 17 C, and then naturally let it rise to 19C. At about day 3 or 4, force it up to 21 or 22 C so that the yeast never loose steam.

My 2 cents
 

Lenny2884

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Aaron, did you use the 145 for 60 min, 155 for 15 min mash schedule? How about the 30 min. whirlpool? 1.015 is good I'll definitely be happy if I can get mine to attenuate that low. Making mine on saturday so any input you can give would be awesome. Thanks.
 

Douglefish

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Sure did...

Mashed at 145 for a little over an hour and ramped up to 155 for a 15.
I did ramp up the mash to 168 for a mash out.

I cooled the wort down to a little under 16 C and pitched the yeast. I set my fermentation controller to 17C and let it rise naturally for 24 hours. At 24 hours I bumped it up again to 19C and let it rise naturally again.

Fermentation stopped at day 6 or 7 and took a gravity reading (1.019)?

At that point I swirled the fermenter to get the yeast back into suspension and waited another 3 days. Took another gravity reading and it was like 1.018.

At that point I heated the fermenter up to 22 C and swirled it again. That's when the yeast took off again. I think I would let it go about 96 hours at 19C and then while fermentation is still active bump it up to 22C next time
 

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I brewed this one on August 30th. Checked it at day 5 and was at like 1040. I've been struggling keeping my ferm temps stable in my apartment so I placed a jacket around it and swirled the bucket. Next morning it took off again and was down to 1020 at day 8. I threw in the first dry hops and today (day 11) it is at 1016. I'm expecting 1015 and really don't think the yeast is done. I think I'm going to wrap in a blanket again, swirl, and transfer tomorrow after work. The fermenter smells like heaven--I can't wait to drink this beer!!
 

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Did you guys up the hops to get the 82 IBUs? If so which ones?

Beersmith is only giving me 60.4 IBUs. Should I just up the Warrior? Or add to the Cent/Cascade additions?


1.00 oz Warrior [15.80 %] (90 min) Hops 43.0 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [5.70 %] (30 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [11.20 %] (30 min) Hops 9.9 IBU


Cheers!
 

Lenny2884

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I'm using Columbus as my bittering addition and just upping it. Matt said in the interview that they sometimes use CTZ as bittering so it shouldnt have any noticeable affect on the final product. Just mashed in!
 

lagavulin

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Thanks Lenny. Upped the Warrior to 1.50 oz for 81.9 IBUs (close enough).

I've got 25 min left on the boil with a gravity of 1.074.

Excited for the 4.0 oz flameout addition.
 

TimBrewz

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Looking forward to hearing how this comes out for you all. Brewing this next weekend with 2010 hops:)
 

Lenny2884

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yea thats about the bitterness I'm going to get. just added my 30 min. additions. Are you doing a 30 min whirlpool?
 
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EricCSU

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I can testify that if you push the limits of WLP007, it will be very attenuative. I brewed a beer that went from 1063 to 1010 (92% Maris Otter, 4% C-75, 4% carapils and mashed at 147F). I was trying to hit 1012. The beer turned out great, but even drier than I anticipated.

For this reason, I doubt that they use a pure strain of 007. If I was to brew this, I would stick with 002.

Eric
 

Lenny2884

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I'm just under 24 hours and this thing is blowing off like crazy! Pitched before bed last night and when I woke up this morning it had already been blowing off for several hours. Didn't take a reading but its fermenting happily at 65 right now. Pitched at 63 like Matt said he does. can't wait for this one!
 
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