Ahh.... the trials and tribulations of a new brew rig... lol.
Sounds like you're making good progress and getting it dialed in though.
Sounds like you're making good progress and getting it dialed in though.
BrunDog 50A eRig - no HLT for me!
- Thread starter BrunDog
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
OP
OP
Ya where is your new rig's thread. Let's go, you're late!
It's coming! Instead of posting as I go, I've taken pics along the way and I'm documenting certain aspects in detail to include with the write-up. I dropped it off at Brewers Hardware last Friday for a couple of small welding additions and I'm hoping to stop and get it back tomorrow. Then it's just some final wiring (which is plug & play) to do before the test runs. Did I tell you it requires 2 BCS's ?
OP
OP
I actually saw that in your teaser post. Too bad you need two controllers to get the I/O. I guess your interface makes it a moot point.
I am out of outputs so may have to go the same route. Either that or switch to a PLC or Arduino Mega.
I am out of outputs so may have to go the same route. Either that or switch to a PLC or Arduino Mega.
Looks like your working out the kinks just fine. Glad you got another brew on her already. Going for brew number 2 on mine the week after Christmas, and I hope to solve my pump issues! Learned a lot from your build, and from the issues you had come up, and how you tackled the solutions to fix the problems. Keep us posted on the final tweaking!
John
John
OP
OP
Sorry overlooked your question... Probably 6 batches? Each had a PBW run after so who knows what that may do to it. What I really don't know is... Was it an actual zero flow reading or an electrical issue? It only happened 3 or 4 times and self-corrected quickly. It could be something or nothing. It could have been bubbles in the feed line, dunno. Could have been aberrant grains wreaking havoc. It is also possible the meter is a POS and just came to a halt with such a slow flow rate. I may do a water only run and see what happens. If it happens again I will debut it live.
OP
OP
When you skip an HLT and sparge on the fly (starting to wonder why any indoor brewer wouldn't), using a standard foldback element inside a standard RIMS tube, the fluid that flows directly near the element is laminar and takes on a lot of heat while the surrounding fluid does not. This can create local boiling if you don't regulate the duty cycle within a confined window. I learned this early on and wanted to make some baffles to create turbulence, but these were tricky to make without a legit machine shop handy.
What I had done was made a mesh tube and put it around the element, knowing it was not ideal, but was easy as I had the stainless mesh and could roll it and slip it around the element and up into the tube. This helped, but what I did not contemplate (like an absolute moron!) is that the cage would also catch grains that slipped past the false bottom. And no amount of PBW is going to clean those out. I had a rude awakening when I took my RIMS element out today only to find some nasty gunked up grains in there... which smelled really funky - yech!
Attempt two... I bought some stainless wire a while back and today wrapped the element in the wire in a zig-zag fashion. I think this will do a better job of creating turbulence inside the tube and hopefully not catch grains. I will do a brew and check it after. If this doesn't work, I will need to find a way to make the baffles. If I were to build another RIMS for this purpose, I would use a iRIMS like trimixdiver invented. But I have these parts so I need to make it work.
What I had done was made a mesh tube and put it around the element, knowing it was not ideal, but was easy as I had the stainless mesh and could roll it and slip it around the element and up into the tube. This helped, but what I did not contemplate (like an absolute moron!) is that the cage would also catch grains that slipped past the false bottom. And no amount of PBW is going to clean those out. I had a rude awakening when I took my RIMS element out today only to find some nasty gunked up grains in there... which smelled really funky - yech!
Attempt two... I bought some stainless wire a while back and today wrapped the element in the wire in a zig-zag fashion. I think this will do a better job of creating turbulence inside the tube and hopefully not catch grains. I will do a brew and check it after. If this doesn't work, I will need to find a way to make the baffles. If I were to build another RIMS for this purpose, I would use a iRIMS like trimixdiver invented. But I have these parts so I need to make it work.
Mountainsax
Well-Known Member
Nice! Simple. 
I'll be curious to see how it works.
I'll be curious to see how it works.My problem is I use store bought RO water, I'd need an "LT" to feed the RIMS tube anyway.
Anxiously awaiting your results
OP
OP
I've used store bought RO before. Just pour it into the storage containers!
Yes, an LT is technically required if you want RO water. My current setup allows for piped water to be used - problem is it is currently connected to a garden hose - yuck!! I thought about adding an RO system to the rig and have the containers fill with that water. But since my rig is in the garage, I don't want to have the hose running from the side of the house into the garage all the time!
I have found that my house RO works out fine. I fill the containers a few times a day for the few days leading up to the brew.
Yes, an LT is technically required if you want RO water. My current setup allows for piped water to be used - problem is it is currently connected to a garden hose - yuck!! I thought about adding an RO system to the rig and have the containers fill with that water. But since my rig is in the garage, I don't want to have the hose running from the side of the house into the garage all the time!
I have found that my house RO works out fine. I fill the containers a few times a day for the few days leading up to the brew.
OP
OP
Couple of minor upgrades today... First is a check valve for the oxygenation system. All the way from Singapore for this? Anyway, historically, when the O2 was off (not under pressure), and there was pressure inside the chiller/oxygenator, that liquid, whether it be wort or cleaning water, would seep past the sintered aerator "stone" into the tubing leading to the O2 meter. This positive check valve should help keep it out. This may get upgraded to a pneumatic valve someday to automate the oxygenation but should solve the problem for now.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1450932943.120876.jpg
And an e-packet from China arrived that contained my second sight glass sensor. This one mounts up to the Boil Kettle sight glass to let the system know when the boil volume is reached during sparging (unless I need to stop early if the runnings' gravity gets too low). It will also be used during the clean cycle.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1450933410.691890.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1450932943.120876.jpg
And an e-packet from China arrived that contained my second sight glass sensor. This one mounts up to the Boil Kettle sight glass to let the system know when the boil volume is reached during sparging (unless I need to stop early if the runnings' gravity gets too low). It will also be used during the clean cycle.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1450933410.691890.jpg
ccfoo242
Well-Known Member
That looks like the o2 tanks sold at home depot. What o2 meter will fit them?
OP
OP
They are. Certainly not "medical grade", but I figure the risk is low. Price and availability can't be beat. Even if there is non-oxygen gas inside, it won't be much and bubbling it through the wort should not be an issue. Unless it is plutonium or something...
That said, the regulator is commonly available at homebrew shops - I think I got mine at AiH. I plumb it through the flowmeter to set the 1 rpm rate, then through the check valve, and into the sintered SS "stone" inline. During transfer, I turn it on for 60 seconds and witness the bubbles via the sight glass.
That said, the regulator is commonly available at homebrew shops - I think I got mine at AiH. I plumb it through the flowmeter to set the 1 rpm rate, then through the check valve, and into the sintered SS "stone" inline. During transfer, I turn it on for 60 seconds and witness the bubbles via the sight glass.
ccfoo242
Well-Known Member
Ok thanks. I didn't think those used the same size fittings as the flow meters. I'll add one to my wish list!
processhead
Well-Known Member
BrunDog, please enlighten me about an LT and how it relates to your use of RO water? Thinking Lauter Tun, but not sure that applies here.
Thanks?
OP
OP
Hot liquor tank, minus the hot.
Yup, exactly. Look at the opening pages and you can see I store RO water in 2x 5gal containers. I fill these from house RO filter or if I forget, I just fill them from bottled purified water. I put salts in the mash during heating.
OP
OP
Did Yooper's Oatmeal Stout today. Went well until I opened my oxygen regulator with the flow control valve open during the chiller whirlpool cycle. The pressure caused the silicone tube connecting the chillers to open up, spraying hot wort all over the place! Other than that, went well.
Here is a pic of one of the inline strainer filters I bought to install in front of the pumps for the cleaning cycle:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451182192.143595.jpg
Here is a pic of one of the inline strainer filters I bought to install in front of the pumps for the cleaning cycle:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451182192.143595.jpg
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2012
- Messages
- 395
- Reaction score
- 33
BrunDog-
This is a sweet build and I appreciate the commentary on what you like and what motivates your changes.
Going back to your controller build, where did you get the wire management? Those race tracks are sweet!
This is a sweet build and I appreciate the commentary on what you like and what motivates your changes.
Going back to your controller build, where did you get the wire management? Those race tracks are sweet!
those filters are an awesome idea
applescrap
Be the ball!
I saw Bobby do that too on a YouTube video sparge water and also strike water on the fly which led me to believe that a sweet setup would be like yours it would have at least one element dedicated to strike and sparge water.
What an amazing set up nice work.glad you found the funky mess before you drank it. Does it make really good beer?
What an amazing set up nice work.glad you found the funky mess before you drank it. Does it make really good beer?
Yikes!! I hope you were able to stop it quickly and salvage most of it.
That's one of the reasons I decided to do SS hardlines on my new system. I've blown hoses doing CIP, so I wanted to eliminate that, plus I'm leaving the kettles in place on the rig now so hardlines works with that.
I've been out of town since last week, but I was able to start pressure testing my rig today. I'm testing all plumbing with line pressure water. Once that is done, it's just the final wiring cleanup for the valves.
OP
OP
Yeah, it freaked me out. Fortunately my hand was on the knob so I was able to quickly close it and only spilled a few oz of wort. But it sprayed everywhere so I needed to hose it all down after.
I love the idea of hard piping but thought it would not be practical until the system is dialed in. I think I have more design/changes to do so I'm not ready for it yet.
How are you doing it? Compression fittings, solder, weld?
I was thinking about TC for "Version 2" like you are doing... though thats a ways off for me. Does anyone make TC ferrules that you can just solder on to SS piping? I think standard ferrules are butt-welded to pipe, but that makes for a big pipe with lots of volume and heat loss, plus welding takes skills, experience, and equipment. Would be really cool if you could get a 1/2" tube slipped into a TC end and solder it in - very DIY.
I love the idea of hard piping but thought it would not be practical until the system is dialed in. I think I have more design/changes to do so I'm not ready for it yet.
How are you doing it? Compression fittings, solder, weld?
I was thinking about TC for "Version 2" like you are doing... though thats a ways off for me. Does anyone make TC ferrules that you can just solder on to SS piping? I think standard ferrules are butt-welded to pipe, but that makes for a big pipe with lots of volume and heat loss, plus welding takes skills, experience, and equipment. Would be really cool if you could get a 1/2" tube slipped into a TC end and solder it in - very DIY.
OP
OP
Thanks. I think the quality of the beer is good... but I don't believe the rig makes or breaks it. I think the ingredients, process, and science do - and that's where I have plenty of learning to do!
-bd
applescrap
Be the ball!
Me too!
I'm using TC's w/ compression fittings. Some are a TC with the compression built in (like this: http://www.brewershardware.com/1-1.5-Tri-Clover-Tri-Clamp-X-1-4-Compression-Adapter.html) , but in 1/2" tubing. Others are TC w/ male NPT thread going into a Swagelok FNPT x compression 90. For the ones that need a tight corner, I use the Swagelok one, but others that have a radius bend in the tubing end with the TC comp adapter.
OP
OP
That TC w/compression... is it a one-piece design? If so, that's very nice. Not cheap at 20 per, but hey, its only money.
Yes, it's a single piece. I really like them. Brewers Hardware has them in 1/2" size but removed them from the web site because the tolerance for the 1/2" tubing was a bit tight. Once they run them on the lathe again to ream to the next size up, they'll be back on the site. I got mine from them and reamed them myself to .508".
OP
OP
Cool. The trick with going TC is figuring out how to eliminate all threads. The ball valves have threads as do the pumps. No easy/quick/cheap way to remedy those.
Dude, let's see some more pics of that new rig!! Stop keeping us in suspense!
Dude, let's see some more pics of that new rig!! Stop keeping us in suspense!
Having threaded fittings has never bothered me. When I take things apart on my old system, it is always spotless, so I went ahead and used threaded on the new system too.
OP
OP
Thats good to hear. I like to think, "if the wort got in there, so will the hot PBW". Just need to give it enough soak time, heat, pressure, etc.
Going back to my last question, have you ever seen TC caps where SS pipes can be slipped in and soldered? Think TC ferrule, but with a smaller ferrule portion (1/2" ID). Seems like this would be an excellent way to make a TC system without welding... no?
Going back to my last question, have you ever seen TC caps where SS pipes can be slipped in and soldered? Think TC ferrule, but with a smaller ferrule portion (1/2" ID). Seems like this would be an excellent way to make a TC system without welding... no?
Yes, what you're looking for is called a ferrule. Here's an example of one: http://www.brewershardware.com/TC05FER14AMP.html
In regards to threaded fittings... I always recirc at the end of the boil and have always felt that if there was some organism in there, the boil is going to kill it anyways.
In regards to threaded fittings... I always recirc at the end of the boil and have always felt that if there was some organism in there, the boil is going to kill it anyways.
OP
OP
I looked at these and could not tell from all the information on the page exactly what it was. So to be clear... this is a 1.5" TC with a 1/2" ID passthru?
No, they're not the 1.5" TC size. They are the mini ones (whatever size that is).
One argument against using 1/2" tubing and soldering all the connections with a flange like that is that you will need large radius bends everywhere. Using a compression elbow with a threaded 1.5" TC allows you to have tight elbows.
One argument against using 1/2" tubing and soldering all the connections with a flange like that is that you will need large radius bends everywhere. Using a compression elbow with a threaded 1.5" TC allows you to have tight elbows.
OP
OP
That's what I thought. I am surprised these don't exist. I even looked at McMaster but they are only made for butt welds to pipe.
OP
OP
Probably!
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year!
OP
OP
Latest upgrade: an LED backlight behind the sight glass. I bought this LED: https://www.adafruit.com/products/1626 and installed it there to provide light during whirlpool, oxygenation, and fermenter transfer.
Soldered in a 1500 ohm resistor to wire this to the same 24VDC which powers the valve which allows flow through the chiller/oxygenation circuit:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451692028.676688.jpg
Then installed it behind the sight glass:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451692070.996609.jpg
Looking forward to trying it out!
Soldered in a 1500 ohm resistor to wire this to the same 24VDC which powers the valve which allows flow through the chiller/oxygenation circuit:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451692028.676688.jpg
Then installed it behind the sight glass:
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451692070.996609.jpg
Looking forward to trying it out!
I've been looking for something like that for a while. I was hoping for something like that with a switch and battery integrated.
