Brown Ale Disappointing

[FiddleBrew]

I found a brown ale recipe, said to have won a prize somewhere. I decided to brew it, but adjusted the base malt downward since the original recipe ended up way above the guidelines for gravity.

Well, had my first taste last night. Looks great, perfect clarity, good mouth feel. But there's a real sharp bite in the flavor I can't identify. The only thing I'm certain of is it's not a sanitation issue, as there are no off flavors associated with that. Just a pretty unpleasant flavor.

I'm convinced it's got too much of something; I just don't know what.

Here's the recipe:

7#s Maris Otter
1# carapils
.5# Dark Munich
.5# Biscuit Malt
.5# Special Roast
.5# Brown Malt
.25# Chocolate Malt
.25# Victory Malt
.25# Golden Naked Oats
Mashed at 152F

Northern Brewer hops 9.9 40 mins
Willamette 4.6 30 mins
Fuggle 4.3 15 "
EKG 6.00 5 "
WLP002
Water adjustment: 1/2 tsp each Chalk, gypsum, salt

Any ideas as to why this is anything but delicious? Should I have cut down the specialty malts along with the M.O.? I think the original used 10#s instead of the 7 I used. Thanks.

 

[WBCo]

Curious where you got those values for salts added. Did you use a spreadsheet or something to calculate the values? Did you measure pH at all? And lastly, did you adjust the hopping rates along with the change in OG?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

This is purely a guess, but some Crystal 40(ish) in place of some of the others might have softened some of that bite.

 

[z-bob]

Might be the brown and chocolate malts.

That's a crazy amount of salt. My water naturally has way too much chalk in it; I can't imagine adding more, but maybe if you're using RO water or distilled.

 

[jdauria]

How long has it been bottled or kegged? Could it be hop bite just because hops have not had chance to settle? Would also question your salt additions, were those from the original recipe? You location's water could be completely different then the original brewer. 1/2 tsp of salt seems like a lot, chalk does not dissolve well in wort without dissolving it, it's better to use baking soda.

 

[kevin58]

Ignore the "guidelines". Unless you are entering your beer into a competition the guidelines are useless. Historically, brown ales were all over the place in ABV depending on the brewery, the locale and the times. Brew the beer you want to brew.

 

[Miraculix]

The chalk bumps the alkalinity quite heavily and the mash pH might easily get in a range where higher amounts of astringent substances are mobilised from the grain husks and darker malts, especially if the water had already elevated bicarbonate levels.

As a rule of thumb, never add chalk, use baking soda instead and only use it if you have a very good reason to use it, meaning you calculated it yourself based on your grain bill and your existing water chemistry.

However, there is a good chance that after a few months wait the beer smoothes out and becomes quite enjoyable. Have one every other week and enjoy monitoring the development.

I once had the same flavour issue with an ale with ten percent brown malt, undrinkable first, really astringent, but a really really nice beer after half a year waiting time.

 

[kh54s10]

For me that is an unnecessarily complicated recipe. I find that simpler makes a better beer. I would cut the total number of different malts. I typically use only 4 or 5.

By just reducing the base grain you did alter the recipe significantly. IDK about the salts.
If you did not adjust the hop amounts you also altered the recipe significantly.

Time... Has it been long enough. I find that some brown ales take a little time to peak in flavor. Not a long time like a RIS would.

 

[Cantina De Jefe]

That special roast is going to give you some astringency.

 

[z-bob]

If you want a very nice dark ale, this is the best beer I've ever brewed. My original recipe was for 4 gallons; I've scaled it up to 5. Notice how simple the grain bill is. I used American pale ale malt. Maris Otter might be better, but this was good enough I can't imagine it being a lot better:

Title: American Porter II

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: American Porter
Boil Time: 45 min
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.048
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 5.74%
IBU (tinseth): 29.84
SRM (morey): 24.3

FERMENTABLES:
9.5 lb - Pale Ale (90.5%)
8 oz - Black Patent (4.8%)
8 oz - Cara 20L (4.8%)

HOPS:
1.5 oz - Willamette, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 40 min, IBU: 24.32
1.5 oz - Willamette, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 5.52

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Amount: 5 gal
2) Sparge, Temp: 120 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 2.5 gal

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
6.4 ml - Lactic Acid, 88%, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.5 tsp - Irish Moss, Time: 15 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST: Bell's
Starter: Yes
Attenuation (custom): 78%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 65 - 78 F
Fermentation Temp: 65 F

NOTES:
Yeast was cultured from cans of Bell's Oberon

Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2019-04-16 16:56 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2019-04-16 16:56 UTC

My was is *very* alkaline, you probably won't need all that acid. I do not think the yeast selection is all that important.

 

[FiddleBrew]

How long has it been bottled or kegged? Could it be hop bite just because hops have not had chance to settle? Would also question your salt additions, were those from the original recipe? You location's water could be completely different then the original brewer. 1/2 tsp of salt seems like a lot, chalk does not dissolve well in wort without dissolving it, it's better to use baking soda.

OK, first, I am not good at using spread sheets for water. I referenced from Al Korzonas's Home Brewing. Old book, but has some useful charts. I know my water has 12ppm sodium. London water has 80-100ppm. 1 tsp/5 gals gives 110ppm. Therefore, 1/2 tsp yields 55ppm, added to 12 = 67ppm, still short of London. So I don't see how I could have overdone the salt with respect to sodium. It likely overshot the chloride, tho. According to the source, chloride accentuates sweetness and fullness, but can interfere with flocculation. However with WLP002, the most flocculant yeast I know, that's not the issue. I also ended up with about 28 IBUs. It doesn't taste overly hoppy or sweet; in fact I could have used more of a sweet profile. I wonder if the brown malt combines with the Special Roast could have ruined it. I too questioned all the malt additions, but the original brewer won a significant prize with it, so I decided not to argue with success.

 

[ccous]

The combined pound of brown malt and special malt could be the culprit.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

As some have noted, it might not be ruined at all; it just might need a little time to come into its own.

Suggestion: don't even think about it for two weeks, then try it again, and compare your experience to what you describe on this thread. If it is still not satisfactory, give it another couple of weeks before calling it a failure, or even longer. I had a Bourbon Dubbel once that tasted "ok" when it was young, but about 5 months later it was absolutely incredible.

Nothing to lose, and possibly much to gain.

 

[Miraculix]

OK, first, I am not good at using spread sheets for water. I referenced from Al Korzonas's Home Brewing. Old book, but has some useful charts. I know my water has 12ppm sodium. London water has 80-100ppm. 1 tsp/5 gals gives 110ppm. Therefore, 1/2 tsp yields 55ppm, added to 12 = 67ppm, still short of London. So I don't see how I could have overdone the salt with respect to sodium. It likely overshot the chloride, tho. According to the source, chloride accentuates sweetness and fullness, but can interfere with flocculation. However with WLP002, the most flocculant yeast I know, that's not the issue. I also ended up with about 28 IBUs. It doesn't taste overly hoppy or sweet; in fact I could have used more of a sweet profile. I wonder if the brown malt combines with the Special Roast could have ruined it. I too questioned all the malt additions, but the original brewer won a significant prize with it, so I decided not to argue with success.

I think you are entirely ignoring one of the most important points, what is the alkalinity of your water and/bicarbonate level before chalk addition?

 

[balrog]

I despise chocolate malt. Black patent also. Blech.
It's like licking an ashtray.
I imagine it's like licking an ashtray.

 

[z-bob]

I despise chocolate malt. Black patent also. Blech.
It's like licking an ashtray.
I imagine it's like licking an ashtray.

I agree with you about chocolate malt. Brown malt can be pretty harsh too but not as bad.

Black Patent has a bad reputation but it's actually pretty mild. More roasty or coffee-like than ashy. I've used 6% in a porter before and it was fine. But the beer turned out a little better using a darker base malt and dropping the BP back to 5%.

 

[kh54s10]

I despise chocolate malt. Black patent also. Blech.
It's like licking an ashtray.
I imagine it's like licking an ashtray.

Tastes vary and maybe it is the recipe... I use chocolate quite frequently. Never got astringent or "ashtray"

 

[balrog]

I'll use pale chocolate (180), carafa II (430), or "Blackprinz" (550).

But I also like Brussels sprouts, and despise lima beans, so go figure. Tastes differ.

But don't put lima beans in beer.

 

[z-bob]

I despise chocolate malt. Black patent also. Blech.
It's like licking an ashtray.
I imagine it's like licking an ashtray.

I think you should lick that ashtray. For Science!

 

[Miraculix]

I despise chocolate malt. Black patent also. Blech.
It's like licking an ashtray.
I imagine it's like licking an ashtray.

Try chocolate spelt, it tastes better to me.

 

[Brewsncrabs]

Consider dropping the brown and special roast. Pale chocolate is milder than chocolate If still too roasty and add some carafe for color. Victory and biscuit are similar. Consider dropping one and adding c60 or 80.

 

[FiddleBrew]

I think you are entirely ignoring one of the most important points, what is the alkalinity of your water and/bicarbonate level before chalk addition?

If I remember right, I talked to a chemist at our water authority and he said something like 95% carbonates. I don't know how I should relate to that. Water chemistry is very confusing to me.

 

[WBCo]

If I remember right, I talked to a chemist at our water authority and he said something like 95% carbonates. I don't know how I should relate to that. Water chemistry is very confusing to me.

Water, with regards to brewing, can be very overwhelming. Taking the time to learn at least the basics will transform your beers! It's well worth your time to delve a little deeper into the subject, especially if you are already brewing all grain batches.

 

[Miraculix]

If I remember right, I talked to a chemist at our water authority and he said something like 95% carbonates. I don't know how I should relate to that. Water chemistry is very confusing to me.

That value would also confuse me. Maybe you can Google your water? Sometimes the authorities have some analysis data online.

I think of you are somehow within the average ranges and not in the extremes, water chemistry doesn't change that much. But if you are somewhere with high values, then it might make a bigger difference on how you approach your brews, for example to include some acidulated malt in the grist if you have high alkalinity and not to add any more with salt additions.

 

[rhys333]

I found a brown ale recipe, said to have won a prize somewhere. I decided to brew it, but adjusted the base malt downward since the original recipe ended up way above the guidelines for gravity.

Well, had my first taste last night. Looks great, perfect clarity, good mouth feel. But there's a real sharp bite in the flavor I can't identify. The only thing I'm certain of is it's not a sanitation issue, as there are no off flavors associated with that. Just a pretty unpleasant flavor.

I'm convinced it's got too much of something; I just don't know what.

Here's the recipe:

7#s Maris Otter
1# carapils
.5# Dark Munich
.5# Biscuit Malt
.5# Special Roast
.5# Brown Malt
.25# Chocolate Malt
.25# Victory Malt
.25# Golden Naked Oats
Mashed at 152F

Northern Brewer hops 9.9 40 mins
Willamette 4.6 30 mins
Fuggle 4.3 15 "
EKG 6.00 5 "
WLP002
Water adjustment: 1/2 tsp each Chalk, gypsum, salt

Any ideas as to why this is anything but delicious? Should I have cut down the specialty malts along with the M.O.? I think the original used 10#s instead of the 7 I used. Thanks.

If it's a lingering bitterness you're experiencing, then there's a very good chance it's astringency due to high mash pH.