British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

[nwcitrus]

Thanks guys. I plan to use 1335 for at least one of the splits.

Since this is a Northern Brown should I give it a few days after FG to clean up before crashing?

I plan to add a little Honey Malt (4%) and Golden Naked Oats (4%). Currently considering Kent Golding and Willamette for FWH and finishing. I am not sure whether the finishing should be at 15, 5 or FO.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Beer_Guy]

...
Any thoughts or suggestions?

You might try Kent Golding at 60 and 15 plus Willamette at 5 and FO

Give it just a little English hop flavor and a little mild woodsy English hop aroma.

Oh and be sure to do the 1:1 water:grain ratio.

Just my 2cents.

Oh, and I used WLP007 on my Southern Brown Ale. MAN, is it nice. It reached 1.010 FG after just 48 hours. Tasting it once or twice a day revealed it was at its peak around day 7. (Note the OG was only 1.036)

 

[winvarin]

Oh and be sure to do the 1:1 water:grain ratio.

1 qt/lb? Why so thick? What does it add for the style vs. a more dilute mash?

 

[rockfish42]

1 qt/lb? Why so thick? What does it add for the style vs. a more dilute mash?

Some earlier texts are quoted as saying that a thicker mash retains more dextrins leading to a thicker mouthfeel. There's also the issue of a thin mash potentially screwing up the pH as the buffers in the grain are diluted.

Kaiser on this forum did an experiment disproving the first concern, mash thickness does not change fermentability. It does change the efficiency dramatically, thin mashes always give higher efficiency up to a certain point assuming you keep the pH in the optimal range.

My personal opinion is that the thicker mash is a relic of the time before sparging was popularized in England. The practice of parti-gyling makes more sense if a large amount of your sugars was still bound up in the mash.

 

[Wig]

1 qt/lb? Why so thick? What does it add for the style vs. a more dilute mash?

This thread got me to re-read Daniels DGBs chapter on Bitters and Pale Ales. He mentions this thick 1:1 ratio as well, though does not go into why.

And thanks to all for a great thread. I cannot wait to try this out this weekend. I lived in the UK for a few years and really got a taste for their Ales. My attempts have been good so far, but I am really excited to kick my game up a notch.

 

[kidsmoke]

I'd highly recommend a forced/fast fermentation test if you do this method, to figure out the fermentability of the wort and the possible final FG of the beer.

 

[bierhaus15]

So people don't have to look through 33 pages of stuff, here is the Fullers fermentation schedule again: Pitch at 63F and raise to 68F over 8-10 hours, ferment at 68F until 1/2 gravity drops and then chill to 63F. When gravity is 1/5 from target gravity, chill to 43F for 2 days.

I don't know how necessary it is to chill down to 63F after 1/2 the gravity drops. I'll usually let it ride at 68F for a few extra days to let it clean up any diacetyl before crash cooling it straight to 43F before kegging. Total ferment time is less than 10 days.

 

[KingBrianI]

So I was thinking... If I threw an informal little special bitter competition, would anyone be interested in participating? I've been threatening to do something similar for a while, but with all the attention this thread has gotten as well as my own discovery of how to finally make a really authentic bitter, I think now is as good a time as ever. Any takers?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I'm brewing an ESB for the US Open soon and plan to use some invert syrup and this method (or close). I'm game.

EDIT: But you gotta promise to take one of those glamour shots of the winners!

 

[motobrewer]

i'm in. i was gonna do a yeast-off this month for my esb, between thames valley I and thames valley II

 

[AnOldUR]

So I was thinking... If I threw an informal little special bitter competition, would anyone be interested in participating?

Sound like fun. Details, details.

I've got an Ordinary Bitter with Wy1318 ready to keg and plan to use it on a Special Bitter next. What did you have in mind?

 

[KingBrianI]

Sound like fun. Details, details.

I've got an Ordinary Bitter with Wy1318 ready to keg and plan to use it on a Special Bitter next. What did you have in mind?

I haven't set anything in stone yet. What happens each time I think about doing something like this, is that some people have an ordinary bitter, some a special bitter, and some an extra special bitter. I think it's probably too much to ask everyone to brew one of the subcategories specifically for this contest so I'll just leave it open to all of them. They're all fairly similar anyway. As for timing, I'm thinking about a month and a half or so from now. That would give anyone wanting to participate enough time to brew something but not so long that those who already have plans to brew something will have to send old beer. For judging it will be me and one of my buddies who is also a homebrewer and into good beer. I may try to get another judge depending upon how many entries there are. We will fill out BJCP scoresheets and email them to you after the contest. I'm also thinking about trying to come up with some kind of small prize for the winner, besides bragging rights. If nothing else, it will be fun for everyone and a good way to see how the techniques in this thread are working for everyone.

 

[bierhaus15]

Sounds like fun! I finally get a good reason to OCD' out while brewing special bitters and you get to drink lots of good, free beer... uh, wait a second! Also, I would be down for brewing one of each styles of bitters, but I think that might be a bit much for everyone.

The only thing I have to ask is that the contest would be judged soon after the entries arrive. There is nothing I hate more about competitions than sending beer in the mail to a comp right away only to have the beer sit around for weeks before it gets judged. Especially with bitters, the flavor nuances can change quite a bit in the bottle over the course of a week.

 

[KingBrianI]

The only thing I have to ask is that the contest would be judged soon after the entries arrive. There is nothing I hate more about competitions than sending beer in the mail to a comp right away only to have the beer sit around for weeks before it gets judged. Especially with bitters, the flavor nuances can change quite a bit in the bottle over the course of a week.

I would set a judging date and it would be up to each participant to send their beer whenever they saw fit. Each entry would be stored in my kegerator at 50 *F until judging.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Depending upon when that judging date is, I might be game. Time for brewing is going to be a rarity for me for the foreseeable future. A spot a bit further in the future might be better for me. Maybe 2 or 2.5 months from now.

 

[Hex]

I'll be bottling two batches this weekend, one with 1968 the other with 1275, will your contest require only one 12 ozer of each via USPS? I've never sent homebrew by mail...

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I'll be bottling two batches this weekend, one with 1968 the other with 1275, will your contest require only one 12 ozer of each via USPS? I've never sent homebrew by mail...

Def don't use USPS, that's against Federal Law. FedEx and UPS are purely a matter of company policy. Neither seems to like shipping beer so many people just put 'sauce' or 'glasses' or something for the contents.

 

[poley]

Def don't use USPS, that's against Federal Law. FedEx and UPS are purely a matter of company policy. Neither seems to like shipping beer so many people just put 'sauce' or 'glasses' or something for the contents.

"Yeast samples" is also popular.

 

[KingBrianI]

will your contest require only one 12 ozer of each?

Yes, one bottle should be sufficient for this contest.

If I plan on holding the contest in early June, would that work for everyone? I don't want to put it off too long because it gets really hot around here if I go much after that. I'd hate for the shipments to be in trucks and warehouses at 100+ degrees.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Early June works for me.

 

[Steelers77]

Could it be the amount of crystal malt that is contributing to the roasted flavors?

Man I can't believe I just found this thread, love me some English ales.

I would say yes to this contributing to the roast flavors. My own experience is that English crystal malts are much more "roasty" than "sweet". Fawcetts Crystal malt I and II surprised me the first time I tasted them. I had to make sure that they were in fact the right malts because they were much more "darker" tasting than American crystal malts.

I love the Thames valley yeast, I've been reading about these fermentation schedules and I just have to say, I will have a mild fermented and in a keg in around 10-14 days. Not saying it's right but with such a small beer I don't think you need 3-4 weeks.

 

[bierhaus15]

Early June works for me.

Same here.

Unrelated, has anyone brewed with Thames Valley II yet? I've never brewed with it, though I plan on picking up a few packs this week and I've heard good things about the flavor profile. Any yeast strains it would be comparable to - 1275, 1968....?

 

[Beernip]

I would be game for June.

My latest ESB using this cycle. Somehow managed to get it down to 1.010 but is a very drinkable ESB. I hope it lasts until lawnmower season. I'm also wanting to try out a Ordinary Bitter soon so.

 

[AnOldUR]

If I plan on holding the contest in early June, would that work for everyone?

Yup!

 

[motobrewer]

Same here.

Unrelated, has anyone brewed with Thames Valley II yet? I've never brewed with it, though I plan on picking up a few packs this week and I've heard good things about the flavor profile. Any yeast strains it would be comparable to - 1275, 1968....?

i've used it in an ESB last year. i thought it was a great yeast - no real fermentation issues. nice stone fruit esters

88% MO
12% Simpsons Medium Crystal

Mashed at 154F for an hour.

1.054 -> 1.013

 

[KingBrianI]

I talked to the other judge and early June will work for him too. At this point we haven't decided on the exact date but it will either be June 4, 5, 11, or 12. I'm going to be in St. Lucia from May 21 to 28 so no bottles can show up that week. That gives a week window for bottles to show up for a 4 or 5 date, and two weeks for bottles to show up for the 11 or 12 date. Of course if I recieve bottles before I leave those can be stored either in my kegerator at 50 degrees or at room temp if you think it still needs carbing or something. I'll start a new thread with all the information once we nail down the date.

 

[sjjn]

Here's a pic of my gravity sample...

Brewed on 3/22. OG 1.034. kept at 64 for a few days then up to 68.
At 1.017 on 4/3. Took reading last night only at 1.015.
Hope it heads under 1.010 this weekend so I can bottle.
It smells and tastes really nice right now.

 

[JuanKenobi]

Wow, what a read! Just finished the whole thread. Thanks everyone for the research and results.

I've got everything to brew up my 4th attempt at an ordinary bitter. The first 3 were okay, but definitely lacking that character we're all seeking. I've been leaving this batch for last out of what I've got on hand because of my past results, but now I'm fired up for it. Going to go get my starter going in a few minutes. My recipe is pretty simple,

93% Golden Promise
5% Medium Crystal
2% Dark Crystal

1oz Willamette FWH
.5oz Willamette KO

Wyeast 1968

I keg and unfortunately don't have any secondary regulators so it'll end up over-carbed, but maybe I'll plan to have enough to bottle a few too. That way I'll have one to toss into the comp. I think I'll put together a special bitter recipe as well for my next ingredient order, which will be getting placed in the next few days. Maybe I'll have a couple entries by the beginning of June.

 

[Wig]

I have my ESB in the fermentor right now. My basement is an ambient temp of 60-61. I had to wait until I got the fermenter heater to try this. I pitched at 64.4. I had the heater for 64 +-1. When I woke up it was at 63. I set it for 65 +-1 and when I got home from work it was 64. I turned up the heat to 66, which is where it is now. Guess in the AM I will turn to 67

I really wanted to submerge my thermostat probe in the wort. So I did it pretty ghetto style. I might add at this point I bought a bucket to ferment this in, rather than my usual carboy. Mainly because I was going to do some top cropping off of it. Anyhow, back to the ghetto. The bucket lid of course has the hole drilled so i figured that is a great spot to drop the probe. But what to wrap it in?

I had silicone, but it would take to long to cure. So I got inspiration from my son. he was eating one of those long ice pop things. So I got myself one, ate it down (delicious pina colada), then cleaned the inside and out. Sanitized while I was waiting for the wort to cool. Sanitized it again and again. Then I slipped the probe down to the end of the tube and finessed it through the hole. I peeled back a quarter of an inch to tape it to the lid - it did want to go all the way through. But there it sits. The length is about 10-12 inches, and the probe juuust gets into the wort. It would have been better if I hit the full 5 gallons, but i came in .5 short.

BTW my recipe was:
91% MO
4.5% Simpsons caramalt
4.5% Simpsons Dark Crystal

mashed at 151-149 for 90 minutes.

WLP002

.5oz/ea EKG and Challanger FWH
.5oz/ea EKG and Challanger 15
.5oz EKG 0

I was going to go all EKG, but on a whim last minute I decided to add the Challenger. We'll see.

 

[Hex]

Bottled two batches of Yeoman's Special Bitters Sunday, and now have 60 bottles of beer on the wall.

One batch with WY1968 and the other with WY1275, both started out a little high at 1.049.

Looking forward to entering my first 'contest'. Keep us posted here with new thread.

 

[smizak]

If my ESB holds up, I'll enter it. I've got some seriously wack scoresheets on this beer, I'd like to see it judged exclusively against the same style, cool idea.

I really wanted to submerge my thermostat probe in the wort.

You really don't have to do that. I've done multiple tests with my equipment, even just duct-taped the the side of the fermenter, no insulation, the temp in the center of the fermenter is pretty much the same.

 

[motobrewer]

yes, i agree. i have a black IPA fermenting now, got a thermowell with a probe down it - it reads 65, the temp strip on the side reads....66

 

[Randar]

So I was thinking... If I threw an informal little special bitter competition, would anyone be interested in participating? I've been threatening to do something similar for a while, but with all the attention this thread has gotten as well as my own discovery of how to finally make a really authentic bitter, I think now is as good a time as ever. Any takers?

Can we enter more than one beer?

Not to make it too extensive, but it would be nice to have browns and all of the bitter styles represented. (If you're doing it anyway, go big or go home, right?)

For my split with the first batch being brewed this weekend, I intend to brew 3 beers, each on 4 different yeasts, with a ferment schedule close to what is listed here. Would love to see a judged comparison of each.

 

[smizak]

And can we please have the scoresheets 2 hours after you judge them?

 

[motobrewer]

browns?!

id say leave it bitter. Cat8 throwdown.

 

[bierhaus15]

Can we enter more than one beer?

I'll be entering at least two beers and maybe a third or fourth if I get around to it. I say keep it to category 8 too, bitters never get the respect they deserve.

 

[Randar]

bierhaus15, what method for making invert sugar did you end up using?

 

[Randar]

browns?!

id say leave it bitter. Cat8 throwdown.

Fair enough. Should require different info for this mini-comp. Mash thickness, yeast strain, detailed fermentation temps/schedule... then post it all up for all to filter through. Would be a great cap on this thread

 

[sjjn]

So my 1.034 bitter using 1968 has pretty much stalled at 1.014. Been that way since Saturday. Was hoping for an abv just over 3. This will be about 2.5. Anything I should try or should I just bottle at this point. Brewed on 3/22. Femr at 64 then it's been at 68 for the last 2 weeks.

 

[Hex]

You can rouse 1968 and bump it up to 70f. or you can add some sugar.