British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

[Beer_Guy]

I wanted to thank all the contributors to this thread.

I brewed a Southern English Brown Ale yesterday and followed the mash profile and am doing the ferment temp outlined here also. I figure any English Ale could be enhanced following the steps you guys are using for Bitters.

 

[sjjn]

Put together my EOB last night. Went real well. Did a stovetop partial mash/partial boil method. Hit the numbers pretty close on and OG was right there at 1.034 after topping up with 1.5 gallons and giving a good stir. Could have put less water if I wanted a few extra gravity points but followed the beersmith calculation and decided to stick with the recipe as it was put together.

Hope to be enjoying this easy drinker soon enough. I'll be back in this post often enough to get ideas for some more English Ale recipes as the stuff I had at the GetRealNY cask festival was awesome. Especially the Thornbridge Kipling. thanks for those recommendations Bierhaus

 

[NCBeernut]

Subscribing for a good read when I have time. I can't beleive I haven't seen this thread before.

 

[sjjn]

Temperature Question: Brewed on Tuesday night, fermentation has been at 64 since. peeked in yesterday when I got home from work saw a nice Krausen and temp was still at 64. Over night though it was surprisingly cold in my kitchen where the bucket is and this morning temps read 60-62 on fermometer on bucket.

I was planning on ramping to 68-70 over the course of the next day or so then holding that for a week and back down to 64 for the end. Do you think it may need to rouse the yeast when temps come back into normal range for Londan Ale ESB 1968 (64-72) to get the full ferment as it dipped so low for about 6 hours? How can I visually tell if the yeast dormant in the cold or do i need to take hydrometer readings to figure that out?

 

[bierhaus15]

I wouldn't worry about rousing the yeast. Chances are you'll have a fine fermentation, though it might take a bit longer. I normally wouldn't ferment wy1968 at 60-64F, though it probably wont hurt the beer, you can wrap a blanket or some form of insulation around the carboy/bucket to help maintain a higher fermentation temp.

Only way to tell how your yeast is performing is with a hydrometer sample. Though I wouldn't recommend taking it more often than is needed. Take one at day 7 and see where you are. If it has stalled out (unlikely) it can be roused a bit.

 

[Hex]

Subscribed.

 

[KingBrianI]

Good news, the special bitter I made earlier in this thread just advanced to the second round of the HBT competition!

 

[bierhaus15]

Good news, the special bitter I made earlier in this thread just advanced to the second round of the HBT competition!

Hey that's great! Hopefully it goes all the way to BOS and shows those APA's that they got nothing on English pale ales! :rockin:

 

[smizak]

Good news, the special bitter I made earlier in this thread just advanced to the second round of the HBT competition!

Congrats!

I tried to make a showing in that category with my ESB, but that damn beer WILL NOT CLEAR. Six weeks in the fridge and it's still hazy as hell. I think I have the same MO that Kai Troester posted about on the AHA forum and had a problem with.

My Dortmunder Export made it in though.

 

[bierhaus15]

I tried to make a showing in that category with my ESB, but that damn beer WILL NOT CLEAR. Six weeks in the fridge and it's still hazy as hell. I think I have the same MO that Kai Troester posted about on the AHA forum and had a problem with.

Curious, what MO did you use? I've had problems getting Thomas Fawcett MO to clear properly in the past, though I found a few weeks at near freezing clears it up pretty quick. Also, what yeast did you use for the ESB? I've had infected batches of wy1968 refuse to clear at cold temperatures and I stopped using wy1275 altogether because I could never get it to fully flocculate.

 

[smizak]

Curious, what MO did you use? I've had problems getting Thomas Fawcett MO to clear properly in the past, though I found a few weeks at near freezing clears it up pretty quick. Also, what yeast did you use for the ESB? I've had infected batches of wy1968 refuse to clear at cold temperatures and I stopped using wy1275 altogether because I could never get it to fully flocculate.

Crisp Maris Otter.

I used 1968. It's not yeast haze, the bottles were crystal before they hit the fridge, it's a damn stubborn chill haze. I just peeked at one and it's barely beginning to clear. I brewed an English IPA last summer that was the same malt, took longer than my Briess-malt beers but it cleared in a few weeks.

 

[motobrewer]

Good news, the special bitter I made earlier in this thread just advanced to the second round of the HBT competition!

so, uh, are you gonna make us dig thru 300 posts or are you gonna post the recipe again? (or a link...)

 

[KingBrianI]

so, uh, are you gonna make us dig thru 300 posts or are you gonna post the recipe again? (or a link...)

Here you go.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/british-yeasts-fermentation-temps-profiles-cybi-other-thoughts-221817/index3.html#post2612471

 

[bierhaus15]

Tapped my keg of special bitter (wy1968)that I brewed with my homemade No.1 invert today and served it on my new handpump. Let's just say from now on all my special bitters are getting an addition of invert, the homemade stuff is miles above the Lyles Golden Syrup or the similar commercial product. Lots of flavor and wonderful malt profile - big thanks to Unholymess for showing us how to make it. And again, the 64 to 68, crash cool fermentation schedule is no joke. I wish I sent this one in to the NHC.

 

[KingBrianI]

Nice, I have to go have a beer now after looking at and hearing about that!

 

[motobrewer]

excellent. i just rebrewed orfy's mild using 1318 that's gonna get the 64->68 schedule.

 

[sjjn]

Good news, the special bitter I made earlier in this thread just advanced to the second round of the HBT competition!

Congrats, great to hear. I knew I was following the right posters on this board.

 

[nwcitrus]

I have read the full thread. Thank you all for the information - great stuff!

This is just in time. I am looking to brew a Northern English Brown soon (first time) and I plan to follow the fermentation schedule where I can (temp control by moving to warmer/cooler location). I may not stay completely true to style but I do want the nutty, malty flavor and I prefer not too sweet. I am using Nutcastle Brown (from Jamil's book) as a starting point. However 1028 is recommended there but doesn't seem highly regarded here.

1 - What yeast would you recommend - 1318, 1335, 1968, others? What mashing temp would you use for that yeast (Northern English Brown)?

2 - Has anyone here tried 1450 Denny's Favorite? I have heard mixed reviews about the maltiness.

I always brew a double batch and split it into two 5's, changing one variable between them. I will likely try two different yeasts, probably one being 1450.

 

[bierhaus15]

I'm not a huge fan of 1028, though I'd image it would do pretty well for a Northern Brown as you are not looking for lots of fruity esters. Though be aware that 1028 isn't the best flocculator and will sometimes leave a cloudy beer. I've always found it to impart a bready/mineral flavor to the beer.

If you don't want to use 1028, I'd say go with 1335. It is a pretty neutral British strain though it flocculates well and leaves the beer clean and malty. I wouldn't use it in a bitter, but for a Northern Brown it'd be just about perfect. I'd mash right around 154F.

I have only used 1450 twice, first time with an American Amber and then pitched some washed yeast in an Irish Stout. I was not impressed by this yeast. The malt profile is as big as it promises to be, but it pretty much overwhelmed all the other flavors in the beer. The beer wasn't very crisp tasting either, both batches tasted pretty muddled and minerally. It also did not flocculate well and even adding gelatin didn't help the clarity much. I probably wont use this yeast again.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Interesting. I've only used 1450 once, as well. I was similarly unimpressed, but for different reasons. I did a split batch (Irish Red) with Nottingham. The Notty was more flavorful and a bit more malty, but not in an overpowering way at all. The 1450 was just a bit...boring. Not bad, but nothing struck me as particularly memorable about it.

 

[nwcitrus]

Thanks guys. I plan to use 1335 for at least one of the splits.

Since this is a Northern Brown should I give it a few days after FG to clean up before crashing?

I plan to add a little Honey Malt (4%) and Golden Naked Oats (4%). Currently considering Kent Golding and Willamette for FWH and finishing. I am not sure whether the finishing should be at 15, 5 or FO.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Beer_Guy]

...
Any thoughts or suggestions?

You might try Kent Golding at 60 and 15 plus Willamette at 5 and FO

Give it just a little English hop flavor and a little mild woodsy English hop aroma.

Oh and be sure to do the 1:1 water:grain ratio.

Just my 2cents.

Oh, and I used WLP007 on my Southern Brown Ale. MAN, is it nice. It reached 1.010 FG after just 48 hours. Tasting it once or twice a day revealed it was at its peak around day 7. (Note the OG was only 1.036)

 

[winvarin]

Oh and be sure to do the 1:1 water:grain ratio.

1 qt/lb? Why so thick? What does it add for the style vs. a more dilute mash?

 

[rockfish42]

1 qt/lb? Why so thick? What does it add for the style vs. a more dilute mash?

Some earlier texts are quoted as saying that a thicker mash retains more dextrins leading to a thicker mouthfeel. There's also the issue of a thin mash potentially screwing up the pH as the buffers in the grain are diluted.

Kaiser on this forum did an experiment disproving the first concern, mash thickness does not change fermentability. It does change the efficiency dramatically, thin mashes always give higher efficiency up to a certain point assuming you keep the pH in the optimal range.

My personal opinion is that the thicker mash is a relic of the time before sparging was popularized in England. The practice of parti-gyling makes more sense if a large amount of your sugars was still bound up in the mash.

 

[Wig]

1 qt/lb? Why so thick? What does it add for the style vs. a more dilute mash?

This thread got me to re-read Daniels DGBs chapter on Bitters and Pale Ales. He mentions this thick 1:1 ratio as well, though does not go into why.

And thanks to all for a great thread. I cannot wait to try this out this weekend. I lived in the UK for a few years and really got a taste for their Ales. My attempts have been good so far, but I am really excited to kick my game up a notch.

 

[kidsmoke]

I'd highly recommend a forced/fast fermentation test if you do this method, to figure out the fermentability of the wort and the possible final FG of the beer.

 

[bierhaus15]

So people don't have to look through 33 pages of stuff, here is the Fullers fermentation schedule again: Pitch at 63F and raise to 68F over 8-10 hours, ferment at 68F until 1/2 gravity drops and then chill to 63F. When gravity is 1/5 from target gravity, chill to 43F for 2 days.

I don't know how necessary it is to chill down to 63F after 1/2 the gravity drops. I'll usually let it ride at 68F for a few extra days to let it clean up any diacetyl before crash cooling it straight to 43F before kegging. Total ferment time is less than 10 days.

 

[KingBrianI]

So I was thinking... If I threw an informal little special bitter competition, would anyone be interested in participating? I've been threatening to do something similar for a while, but with all the attention this thread has gotten as well as my own discovery of how to finally make a really authentic bitter, I think now is as good a time as ever. Any takers?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I'm brewing an ESB for the US Open soon and plan to use some invert syrup and this method (or close). I'm game.

EDIT: But you gotta promise to take one of those glamour shots of the winners!

 

[motobrewer]

i'm in. i was gonna do a yeast-off this month for my esb, between thames valley I and thames valley II