British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

[ba-brewer]

Might try pub, altogh I would prefer a yeast that won't need a diacetyl rest and is not so hard to work with such as 002 or pub, might try 005.

005 is one of the few yeasts that had over helming diacetyl for me. I was really disappointed as the starter smelled so nice and was really looking forward to that beer. I bumped the temp at the end of fermentation and did not notice any diacetyl when I kegged but sure was there when I went to drink it. I ended up warming the keg back up and adding an active fermenting beer/yeast to clean it up.

Wyeast 1469 is a decent yeast, fairly consistent as far as attenuation is concerned and clears well on it's own. I think it bringing out malt aroma too.

If you want to rouse, I would start like 24 to 36 hours post pitch, once the yeast starts flocking it is hard to get them back in suspension.

 

[Miraculix]

Been reading around a little more, probably gonna use wlp 002 or 005 for a re-do of my ESB wich is a decent ale with s04 but lacks the depth and complexity from the yeast I look for, as a first go at liquid yeast.
Will pitch slightly colder, ferment at 18-19c until Kreuzen falls down and take a gravity reading, if it's way too high I will arouse(couldn't help myself) the yesst a bit and wait a little, and raise the temp to 20-21c if it is nearing what is a reasonable FG, leave it a couple days and check if the gravity has stabilized.
Do I need to lower the temp for a couple days after the gravity is stable, or can I keep it at the higher end until bottling?

If you can, get Imperial yeast pub instead of 002. You won't need a starter and the flavour is better. 002 gave me strong fusel alcohols, once I fermented it too warm (was my fault...), Pub never did that to my beer.

Otherwise I'm pretty sure 002 is not a bad yeast, it's just a bit more demanding.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I have a temp controlled refrigerator as FC, so keeping temperature where I want it is no problem. As I understand it around 19c is a good temp for most english liquid strains?

 

[rmr9]

If you can, get Imperial yeast pub instead of 002. You won't need a starter and the flavour is better. 002 gave me strong fusel alcohols, once I fermented it too warm (was my fault...), Pub never did that to my beer.

Otherwise I'm pretty sure 002 is not a bad yeast, it's just a bit more demanding.

I’ll second this thought. I’ve tried wy1968, wlp002 and imperial A09 pub. Even though they’re thought to be the “same” I found the A09 to be better in flavor and importantly it holds up better to bottle/cask conditioning. I enjoyed A09 so much that it’s got me wondering if I should even branch out to 1469 for my next bitter or just stick with what worked well.

 

[Miraculix]

I’ll second this thought. I’ve tried wy1968, wlp002 and imperial A09 pub. Even though they’re thought to be the “same” I found the A09 to be better in flavor and importantly it holds up better to bottle/cask conditioning. I enjoyed A09 so much that it’s got me wondering if I should even branch out to 1469 for my next bitter or just stick with what worked well.

Pub is my favourite yeast. Just for the ease of use, I'm going to give the new Lallemand Verdant dry yeast a try. But if I have to choose a liquid yeast, I'm going to have a hard time explaining to myself why I should try something new and unknown when I can have such a great yeast as pub instead.

I'll probably try something else from Imperial yeast one day...

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I usually brew 10 liter batches, could I pitch liquid yeast directly or should I make 1 liter starters for beer up to like 60-65 OG just to be sure and 2 liter starters for stronger beers? will probably decant them if that matters.

 

[ba-brewer]

Hard to tell unless you know the mfg date or use by date.

this is a good yeast calculator, things turn red if out of norms.
Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Starter Calculator

 

[Jarvo_325]

I can't believe this thread is 13 years old and I accidently stumble across it today after discovering my LHBS has decreased its range of yeast options, and as I was searching for English Yeast options, and I found this thread. What a Rabbit Hole I have gone down, but so glad I did.

Firstly, thanks to KingBrianl and Bierhaus15 and others for the wealth of information.

I'm not sure what yeast I will pick, there is limited options in Tasmania Australia at moment, may have to buy some online, but it will be English strain.

I have the same problems, I have done about half a dozen Bitters, and continued to tweak the recipe of each one, but I never achieved the toffee, caramel, butterscotch type taste and smell of commercial beers. I have been searched multiple times online but never found a potential reason/strategy to fix the problem until today, by accident.

Can I confirm the fermentation procedure please.

Pitch at 64F (17) degrees, then slowly rise the temp to 68F (20) over the course of a few days. Leave it at 68F (20) for a week then cold crash.

Thanks All

 

[Miraculix]

I can't believe this thread is 13 years old and I accidently stumble across it today after discovering my LHBS has decreased its range of yeast options, and as I was searching for English Yeast options, and I found this thread. What a Rabbit Hole I have gone down, but so glad I did.

Firstly, thanks to KingBrianl and Bierhaus15 and others for the wealth of information.

I'm not sure what yeast I will pick, there is limited options in Tasmania Australia at moment, may have to buy some online, but it will be English strain.

I have the same problems, I have done about half a dozen Bitters, and continued to tweak the recipe of each one, but I never achieved the toffee, caramel, butterscotch type taste and smell of commercial beers. I have been searched multiple times online but never found a potential reason/strategy to fix the problem until today, by accident.

Can I confirm the fermentation procedure please.

Pitch at 64F (17) degrees, then slowly rise the temp to 68F (20) over the course of a few days. Leave it at 68F (20) for a week then cold crash.

Thanks All

What you are after is a product of the right crystal malt, not the fermentation temperature. Have a look at the English Ale Recipe thread. In general, use British medium to dark crystal between 5-10% of the grist. You might want to incorporate up to ten percent of darker invert sugar as well. Then go with the British yeast of your choice, ferment at 19c or whatever your yeast is best at and you're good. I am a big fan of Imperial yeast pub. But there are other great yeasts out there. Just don't bother with wlp002.

Make sure your crystal is from a good English manufacturer like crisp, Thomas Fawcett or Simpsons.

 

[Jarvo_325]

What you are after is a product of the right crystal malt, not the fermentation temperature. Have a look at the English Ale Recipe thread. In general, use British medium to dark crystal between 5-10% of the grist. You might want to incorporate up to ten percent of darker invert sugar as well. Then go with the British yeast of your choice, ferment at 19c or whatever your yeast is best at and you're good. I am a big fan of Imperial yeast pub. But there are other great yeasts out there. Just don't bother with wlp002.

Make sure your crystal is from a good English manufacturer like crisp, Thomas Fawcett or Simpsons.

Thanks mate, I have done heaps of research on bitters in terms of recipes, BJCP and reading books such as brewing clasic styles. I believe my recipe is fairly solid.

However despite all this I never get the smell and taste of commercial bitters, and it seems like the fermentation schedule that Kingbrian and bierhaus used had a postive affect on the smell and taste.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks mate, I have done heaps of research on bitters in terms of recipes, BJCP and reading books such as brewing clasic styles. I believe my recipe is fairly solid.

However despite all this I never get the smell and taste of commercial bitters, and it seems like the fermentation schedule that Kingbrian and bierhaus used had a postive affect on the smell and taste.

I suggest you come over here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...favorite-recipe.472464/page-154#post-10412866

And share your exact recipe and procedure. There are far more knowledgeable people in this thread active than me, who are glad to help.

And one final tip, whatever your do, forget bjcp when it comes to English beer in general.

 

[Jarvo_325]

I suggest you come over here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...favorite-recipe.472464/page-154#post-10412866

And share your exact recipe and procedure. There are far more knowledgeable people in this thread active than me, who are glad to help.

And one final tip, whatever your do, forget bjcp when it comes to English beer in general.

Cheers

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I never achieved the toffee, caramel, butterscotch type taste and smell of commercial beers.

Be careful what you're aiming for here - most bitter doesn't have a strong toffee/butterscotch flavour, but can develop them if handled badly.

That's not to say that some don't have those flavours, particularly in the Thames valley, but I wouldn't go chasing them too hard. The essence of the style is balance, no one flavour should predominate. I would never go above 7% light crystal, and less for medium/dark crystal. You want a hint of those dark sugary flavours in brown bitter (but obviously not in eg a Manchester bitter like Boddies which has no crystal at all), but no more than that. Otherwise you end up in a syrupy mess that lacks the drinkability that is key to the style.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

And one final tip, whatever your do, forget bjcp when it comes to English beer in general.
I agree completely plus 3 other tips
1. Use good British Malts
2. Use English hops
3. Use British yeast.

 

[Jarvo_325]

Be careful what you're aiming for here - most bitter doesn't have a strong toffee/butterscotch flavour, but can develop them if handled badly.

That's not to say that some don't have those flavours, particularly in the Thames valley, but I wouldn't go chasing them too hard. The essence of the style is balance, no one flavour should predominate. I would never go above 7% light crystal, and less for medium/dark crystal. You want a hint of those dark sugary flavours in brown bitter (but obviously not in eg a Manchester bitter like Boddies which has no crystal at all), but no more than that. Otherwise you end up in a syrupy mess that lacks the drinkability that is key to the style.

Thanks, totally understand.
I guess at the moment all my bitters have not smelt or tasted like a commercial bitter.

 

[Jarvo_325]

And one final tip, whatever your do, forget bjcp when it comes to English beer in general.
I agree completely plus 3 other tips
1. Use good British Malts
2. Use English hops
3. Use British yeast.

Totally that's 100% what I do. Cheers

 

[beervoid]

Totally that's 100% what I do. Cheers

Find the right yeast and ferment open would be my tip

 

[Jarvo_325]

Find the right yeast and ferment open would be my tip

Thanks, that crossed my mind.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

Hey everyone, firstly this thread is awesome.

Question for you: when do you start taking gravity readings to catch it at 50% of the way to FG?

I pitched at 63F, held at 65 until high krausen this morning and bumped it to 68. WLP-002 appears to be ripping through the wort at a ridiculous rate.

 

[corncob]

When most trad-behaving English yeasts are allowed to run a little warm, 50% will come shockingly fast--maybe 3 days. But it doesn't matter if you hit it exactly. Jack up the thermostat when you first see foam. Give it 36-48 hours warm. Start cooling before the krausen starts falling. Hold at the low recommended temp for the yeast until it tastes ready.

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

When most trad-behaving English yeasts are allowed to run a little warm, 50% will come shockingly fast--maybe 3 days. But it doesn't matter if you hit it exactly. Jack up the thermostat when you first see foam. Give it 36-48 hours warm. Start cooling before the krausen starts falling. Hold at the low recommended temp for the yeast until it tastes ready.

Perfect, thanks!