Brü's Views with John Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy

[Homercidal]

Reminds me of the first time I went to Blackrocks in Marquette. They had just opened and were so popular they couldn't keep their fermentors filled long enough.

I won't say the beer was bad, but they were definitely selling it faster then it could ferment. Cloudy as all get out. And people kept drinking it up.

Now they expanded and started up a production location and sell some pretty darn good beer.

Pretty much the same with ELK brewing in GR. (Although I don't know if they have a production location or just upgraded their equipment...)

But those beers were NOTHING CLOSE to as murk as that stuff being posted here!

 

[mattdee1]

An interesting post, and after reading through the whole thing I was asking myself a few questions:
--Is clear beer just a marketing gimmick introduced when beer went from something made in the home to something produced on an industrial scale?
--Is cloudy beer a modern day gimmick to differentiate a product in a crowded marketplace? (some brewers use flour in the grain bill for extra haze)
--What beers benefit from mechanical or chemical interventions clear them and what beers are better left alone?
I think a series of side by side brews/taste tests with filtered/clear and unfiltered/hazy would be interesting. The results could be surprising.

Yeah, clear beer kind of reminds me of “glossy” photo prints, in a way. I remember when I started making photo prints, I would always select glossy as the finish because, well… glossy. It just sounds more fancy and attractive for some reason.

Glossy is nice sometimes, but eventually I started getting prints in matte finish and realized it often looks a lot better. Likewise with clear beer vs. hazy beer. Both have their place.

For my brewing though, I don’t really force one or the other. I just do the process as best I can and don’t sweat whatever level of clarity comes out the other end. I’m not interested in putting gelatin in my beer, or adding any other steps.. for now, anyway, maybe that will change later. Some beers have ended up ridiculously clear, others not so much. It seems to depend heavily on my yeast choices.

 

[moreb33rplz]

Yes we have a "NE IPA" konkey dong. And it's just okay, IMO it just hopped to the extreme just for the sake of hopping it to the extreme.

Nothing looks appealing about this beer at all

I also had tired hands which is a little bit nicer looking tastes pretty good.

Ew

 

[specharka]

I think there's a lot of prejudice and preconceived notions of what a beer should and shouldn't look like being espoused here. Personally, I don't give a damn how hazy the results end up being, so long as the beer tastes good. As it so happens, a lot of my favorite IPAs happen to be hazy ones (Hill Farmstead, Tree House & Alchemist to name a few)...but I can accept that could be a product of my environment. Although I've had my fair share of West Coast varieties (Rogue, Lagunitas, SNPA, etc), I understand that my preferences might not be universally shared.

My point being, don't knock it until you try it.

 

[jcav]

http://i.imgur.com/NOphJkP.jpg

I'm sorry all due respect to the brewer, but I don't think I could even get myself to take a sip of that, let alone drink it.....Just can' do it.

 

[Kiknjville]

I'm not really understanding all of this controversy but cloudy ipas really seems to have struck a nerve. Why do so many people have their panties in a bunch about this?

 

[The_Bishop]

Personally? I think it's a lazy/fast way to turn out a beer. If you don't need to wait for clarity, you an almost package it as soon as you hit FG and are carbed. It's a cut-rate way to turn out beer fast, especially when they harp on the whole 'drink it out of the can' angle because they know it looks like crap.

It's not a 'signature feature', it's a flaw. When the head on your beer looks like the hot break in the kettle it's not a positive thing. The lack of package stability is a further sign of the shortcuts taken in churning it out.

Hop-infused haze is OK. Deliberately yeasty styles are fine, the yeast is part of the flavor profile.

A can of mud with chunks of protein floating around in it is just lazy/poor practice.

Again, my opinion.

 

[maddrum2112]

Don't drink it if it bothers you. Simple enough. Some drinkers don't care for hoppy ipas, some don't care for darker beers like stouts and porters, hell, some don't drink anything other than bmc ! The market takes care of all of these problems. If people buy it, it will survive.

 

[Calichusetts]

Personally? I think it's a lazy/fast way to turn out a beer. If you don't need to wait for clarity, you an almost package it as soon as you hit FG and are carbed. It's a cut-rate way to turn out beer fast, especially when they harp on the whole 'drink it out of the can' angle because they know it looks like crap.

It's not a 'signature feature', it's a flaw. When the head on your beer looks like the hot break in the kettle it's not a positive thing. The lack of package stability is a further sign of the shortcuts taken in churning it out.

Hop-infused haze is OK. Deliberately yeasty styles are fine, the yeast is part of the flavor profile.

A can of mud with chunks of protein floating around in it is just lazy/poor practice.

Again, my opinion.

Agree, its just that NE style IPAs have no qualities you list. No chunks, no flaws. They just do a lot of late hopping, use yeasts that are less flocculant, don't do "unnecessary" filtering or cold crashing, and just bottle and serve when ready.

 

[Callacave]

Agree, its just that NE style IPAs have no qualities you list. No chunks, no flaws. They just do a lot of late hopping, use yeasts that are less flocculant, don't do "unnecessary" filtering or cold crashing, and just bottle and serve when ready.

So true. So many misconceptions from people who haven't even tried anything from here, and just go by what they read, and a few pics. Nobody wants to drink a beer with chunks floating in it, and we in NE don't produce that stuff like that. Breweries that do are completely missing the point.

 

[specharka]

Agree, its just that NE style IPAs have no qualities you list. No chunks, no flaws. They just do a lot of late hopping, use yeasts that are less flocculant, don't do "unnecessary" filtering or cold crashing, and just bottle and serve when ready.

Word.

I think the misconception is that breweries intentionally make hazy beers. In reality, it's the brewing processes that they don't employ (e.g. fining and filtering) that result in hazy beer. Also, crystal-clear IPAs are very much a new thing, relatively speaking. So really, which style is the controversial one?

As an aside, I tried to acquire WY1318 from my LHBS yesterday and I was told they sold out of 28 smack packs within 72 hours. Seems like there's a few others that figured it out already.

 

[GrogNerd]

Yes we have a "NE IPA" konkey dong. And it's just okay, IMO it just hopped to the extreme just for the sake of hopping it to the extreme.

Nothing looks appealing about this beer at all

I also had tired hands which is a little bit nicer looking tastes pretty good.

hazy = OK
murky = NOT OK

huge difference between the pictures on Brü's site and this bucket o'sludge

that looks like the first serving from a primed keg.

no thanks. dump that, dump the next one, I'll take the third pour. maybe

 

[bobeer]

I remember when Stouts double IPA came out a long time ago. There were yeast chunks floating in it and it was sludgey but it one of the best beers i had ever had at the time. The haze and junk doesnt really bother me. What bothers me are these beer geeks who think they need to drink ipas the second they get them. Sometimes beer, even an ipa, is much better when you let it mellow for a week or so. I'm Tired of the "fight of the fresh" and the elitism it can cause. It's beer and anyone can buy it. You're not special. Haha.

As for hazy beer... i don't mind it but that donkey kong beer looks awful. Haha. Id probably still try it though because i like beer!

 

[Denny]

I think there's a lot of prejudice and preconceived notions of what a beer should and shouldn't look like being espoused here. Personally, I don't give a damn how hazy the results end up being, so long as the beer tastes good. As it so happens, a lot of my favorite IPAs happen to be hazy ones (Hill Farmstead, Tree House & Alchemist to name a few)...but I can accept that could be a product of my environment. Although I've had my fair share of West Coast varieties (Rogue, Lagunitas, SNPA, etc), I understand that my preferences might not be universally shared.

My point being, don't knock it until you try it.

I've tried it, I didn't like it, I'm trying them again. Several people are sending me NE IPAs to try.

 

[Denny]

Word.

I think the misconception is that breweries intentionally make hazy beers. In reality, it's the brewing processes that they don't employ (e.g. fining and filtering) that result in hazy beer. Also, crystal-clear IPAs are very much a new thing, relatively speaking. So really, which style is the controversial one?

As an aside, I tried to acquire WY1318 from my LHBS yesterday and I was told they sold out of 28 smack packs within 72 hours. Seems like there's a few others that figured it out already.

I dunno. I know a lot of breweries who don't fine or filter and their beers don't look like some of those. I really think it's a fad and a gimmick, like black IPA.

 

[Jimbodaman]

Reminds me of the first time I went to Blackrocks in Marquette. They had just opened and were so popular they couldn't keep their fermentors filled long enough.

I won't say the beer was bad, but they were definitely selling it faster then it could ferment. Cloudy as all get out. And people kept drinking it up.

Now they expanded and started up a production location and sell some pretty darn good beer.

Pretty much the same with ELK brewing in GR. (Although I don't know if they have a production location or just upgraded their equipment...)

But those beers were NOTHING CLOSE to as murk as that stuff being posted here!

Wow very surprised the world outside the UP knows what Blackrocks is I live a block away, one of my favorite watering holes. Love the coconut brown, not a fan of much else but that doesn't really matter I'd drink their brown ale all day. Honey lav smells like a grandmothers bathroom, hipsters dig it tho.

 

[Callacave]

I dunno. I know a lot of breweries who don't fine or filter and their beers don't look like some of those. I really think it's a fad and a gimmick, like black IPA.

Geez Denny, it's not a fad. It's just a healthy amount of whirlpooling, intense amount of dry hopping and higher calcium chloride to sulfate ratio. It's just another interpretation of a hoppy ale. It creates a soft bitterness, tons of flavor and aroma, and a pillowy mouthfeel. What's so bad about that? Maybe some people are tired of the abrasive, sharp, dry bitterness of the west coast style that I've had my fair share of. I don't think breweries like hill farmstead are getting best brewery in the world for no reason. They must be doing something that people are enjoying. Just embrace it even if it's not happening on your side of the coast

 

[Braufessor]

Maybe some people are tired of the abrasive, sharp, dry bitterness of the west coast style that I've had my fair share of.

 

[jcav]

Just to be clear I don't mind cloudy or hazy beers. IPA's with soft bitterness and huge aroma are cool with me too. I love those and the way they are more balanced. I don't have to have crystal clear beer. But the only one I have a problem with is that "Konkey Dong" one. That photo looks very unappetizing to me. Might as well have called it "Konkey Dung".....Just saying.

 

[slym2none]

I agree, that look doesn't please me... but if it tasted good, you damn well know I'd drink it!

 

[jwalk4]

Yes we have a "NE IPA" konkey dong. And it's just okay, IMO it just hopped to the extreme just for the sake of hopping it to the extreme.

Nothing looks appealing about this beer at all

I also had tired hands which is a little bit nicer looking tastes pretty good.

It looks like you're drinking a glass of Yeast Starter.

 

[hunter_le five]

I don't mind extremely hazy beers. Chill haze and hop haze don't bother me, though I generally try to limit it in my own homebrews.

But when it looks like a damn yeast starter for all the sediment floating around in it, I got a problem. Looking at you, Big Bend Brewery.

 

[Denny]

I agree, that look doesn't please me... but if it tasted good, you damn well know I'd drink it!

Not me. I don't like filtering beer through my teeth.

 

[slym2none]

 

[broadbill]

Not me. I don't like filtering beer through my teeth.

Fair enough. But in my Portland (vs. your Portland), this type of beer is where it is at. Every brewery is offering something in this style now, places like Bissell have people driving up from Boston every weekend, waiting in line (in the rain, like this weekend), to buy Substance and Swish for $13-17 a four-pack (16oz cans, but still). Then they go and wait in the line for Epiphany at Foundation. Allagash used to be the big draw in town, now they rely on these guys to bring people to them...Its crazy.

Its a bubble, just like West Coast IPAs a few years back.

The guy behind me in line told me that he is trading swish 1:1 for pliny the elder, which I thought was interesting.

It is what it is, if that is your thing. Personally, I don't see the need to say its bad brewing practice or some such thing, especially since these guys are selling a sh*t-ton of this stuff.

 

[Denny]

Fair enough. But in my Portland (vs. your Portland), this type of beer is where it is at. Every brewery is offering something in this style now, places like Bissell have people driving up from Boston every weekend, waiting in line (in the rain, like this weekend), to buy Substance and Swish for $13-17 a four-pack (16oz cans, but still). Then they go and wait in the line for Epiphany at Foundation. Allagash used to be the big draw in town, now they rely on these guys to bring people to them...Its crazy.

Its a bubble, just like West Coast IPAs a few years back.

The guy behind me in line told me that he is trading swish 1:1 for pliny the elder, which I thought was interesting.

It is what it is, if that is your thing. Personally, I don't see the need to say its bad brewing practice or some such thing, especially since these guys are selling a sh*t-ton of this stuff.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. H. L. Mencken

You could sub "taste" for "intelligence"

 

[hunter_le five]

Nothing looks appealing about this beer at all

I'm pretty sure that's just chocolate milk.

 

[broadbill]

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. H. L. Mencken

You could sub "taste" for "intelligence"

Oh, you're just sore because nobody is buying the taste-bud stripping, Pinecone beers of the West Coast!

 

[tagz]

The pictures of swish don't look so bad but reciprocal doesn't seem that appetizing...

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1459790297.338965.jpg

 

[Denny]

Oh, you're just sore because nobody is buying the taste-bud stripping, Pinecone beers of the West Coast!

Not really...I don't care what other people drink.