Bottling Sugar Problem

[nicolas11]

So, heres the scoop. I used Mangrove Jacks Dubbel Extract kit, it's almost ready to be bottled so, as it is written in their manual I should use 2 tsp of sugar per 2L. So for the whole 12L of wort I should use 12 tsp. Converting that to grams, accounting for the ingredient(dextrose(powdered sugar)) 12tsp=30.66g.
_________Here is the problem. Using the priming sugar calculator (Bottling Priming Calculator) I get this:

So taking into account that its a Dubbel, using the Belgian Ale Scale for CO2 Vol. (1.9-2.4 volumes)
as well as taking into account that the wort's temperature will be 18C/64F, the calculation comes at 57.2g(corn sugar). That's almost double the amount Mangroove Jacks manual recommended!

Does anyone know why?
and which calculation do you think would be better to use?

Mangrove Jacks Manual:

 

[dwhite60]

Think I would make it per MJ's instructions.

Next time I'd adjust as needed, if needed.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

The calculator is factoring in natural CO2. This is the recommended way of determining the amount of priming sugars (corn, malt, etc) to avoid gushers, bottle bombs, etc.

 

[nicolas11]

The calculator is factoring in natural CO2. This is the recommended way of determining the amount of priming sugars (corn, malt, etc) to avoid gushers, bottle bombs, etc.

if that were the case, wouldn't the calculator show less grams needed, than the MJ manual?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

It certainly should be showing less if the information used for both is the same.

 

[nicolas11]

It's weird. If I choose British ales in the calculator, and the lowest co2 vol 1.5) it gives me the same amount of dextrose as the MJ manual suggests(30.6-8g).
The MJ manual is the same for all beers of their series. Could it be the "safe" bet for universalizing their instructions?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I've seen some recommending 1.5 for British, where others are 2.0.

Normally, British ales are very low in CO2.

By "all beers of their series" meaning British?

 

[nicolas11]

No I mean their "Traditional series" "Craft series" etc. Mangrove Jack's

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

They really can't be the same levels of CO2. Therefore, I guess, universal instructions.

As a new brewer I'd follow the instructions and tweak things next time based on the outcome.

 

[nicolas11]

thanks!

 

[nicolas11]

Wouldn't mind more input from more experienced brewers though.
Just found out from northern brewers calculator, that Belgian Dubbel requires 3.0 volumes of Co2? that make the priming sugar for 12Lt at 18 C degrees need 100g of dextrose.. Im properly confused...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I see from the OP you are brewing a Belgian Dubbel and not a British ale. Normal Belgian Dubbels are 2.3 to 2.9. Let's take the average of 2.6 levels of CO2. You need 128g or corn sugar to achieve 2.6 levels of CO2.

 

[nicolas11]

its a bit lower than that tbh(grams-wise) but yeah, still 3 times the recommended (by MJ's manual)

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

3 times? Is MJ adding the sugar to boost ABV%? Some of the sugar is used for fermentation while other sugar is used for bottle priming?

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I'd follow the MJ Belgian Dubbel instructions as printed on the bag and ignore the MJ manual. Whom knows when the manual was written, what the MJ manual applies to, etc. Follow the bag instructions!

 

[nicolas11]

I'd follow the MJ Belgian Dubbel instructions as printed on the bag and ignore the MJ manual. Whom knows when the manual was written, what the MJ manual applies to, etc. Follow the bag instructions!

Yeah the MJ Manual as I stated is the same for all their pouches, not custom for each type of beer. Thats the problem, because it suggests I use the amount of priming sugar I would use for a Brittish Ale, in a Belgian Dubbel kit.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Yeah the MJ Manual as I stated is the same for all their pouches, not custom for each type of beer. Thats the problem, because it suggests I use the amount of priming sugar I would use for a Brittish Ale, in a Belgian Dubbel kit.

Probably only valid when it was written as the MJ pouches seem to change from time-to-time.

I still recommend following the pouch directions.

 

[nicolas11]

And now, in their own FAQ (Mangrove Jacks) i find this.

That would mean for 12L, 24 tsp. Which means 24x4,2g=101g of corn sugar. wtf

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I think you are considering too many sources and getting yourself confused. There are lots of brewing information available, some helpful and some not so helpful. As you brew you will learn the helpful info vs the not helpful.

Keep it simple and follow the pouch directions.

 

[Miraculix]

Keep it simple. Those manuals are crap 99% of the time anyway. The process to get the right amount of carbonation sugar is the same for each beer and not complicated, given that the fermentation really finished.

Take the amount of bubbles you want, hack that into a calculator, be done with it.

For example, I carbonate with 2 to 4 g of table sugar per half a litre of beer, depending on the style.

I would recommend 3,5g per half a litre, so basically 7 gram per litre. I would prime each bottle separately to avoid oxygen intake in the bottling bucket and to avoid problems with sugar that won't mix well in the bucket.

You also don't know with how much volume you actually end up with, after trub loss. So fill 3-4g of sugar into each half a litre bottle and you'll be good.

 

[thehaze]

I have bottled over 100 batches - I regularly use between 5 ( Imperial Stouts, Milk Stouts, etc. ) and 8-9 ( Belgian Ales, Hefeweizens, etc. ) grams of sugar per liter and never had issues. There will always be residual CO2 in beer from the fermentation, so take that into consideration. The Brewer'sFriend calculator has never failed me and from that point of view, it is great.

I will however recommend not under carbonating your Belgian Ales. 2.0 vol. CO2 is extremely low. It might be OK for Imperial Stouts, but not a Dubbel. You should shoot for something between 2.5 and 2.8 vol. CO2.

 

[nicolas11]

Thank you all guys. I cannot easily measure individual amount for each bottle since I use 630ml Bottles, so im carbonating the whole wort. I'll go with the calculator's 101g (2.8-2.9 volumes) and let you know if we go boom boom hahah. Again thank you all, this community has never failed me.

 

[Miraculix]

Thank you all guys. I cannot easily measure individual amount for each bottle since I use 630ml Bottles, so im carbonating the whole wort. I'll go with the calculator's 101g (2.8-2.9 volumes) and let you know if we go boom boom hahah. Again thank you all, this community has never failed me.

If you know that you would want 8g per litre and you multiply this by 0,63, you will get the amount of sugar per bottle. Small scale costs about ten bucks on Amazon.

 

[nicolas11]

It comes out to 5.6g for 630ml. It's quite funny that sub-gram scales are allowed only with a chemist certificate in my country(EU-Cy). I guess i could use 6g or 5g but that would be harder and more time consuming. Maybe I wil try itl in the future though, just to see if its better.

 

[thehaze]

Can't you find coffee/sugar tea in supermarkets? Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Raw-50319_EA...&keywords=Sugar+Packets&qid=1610894073&sr=8-1

You should to be able to find it in your supermarkets - no matter the manufacturer, just plain sugar packages in small 3-4-5 grams sachets.

 

[Birrofilo]

I go with the very simple rule that I must add 4,25 grams of sucrose per liter to obtain 1 volume of additional CO2.

If you have 0,92 volumes in your beer, and you want 2,6 volumes, you need to add 1,68 volumes or 7,14 grams sucrose for liter, rounding to 87 grams of sucrose for your 12-litre batch.