Anyone brewing Brut IPA?

[stickyfinger]

I saw in an earlier post that you used the FermFast glucoamylase, a 10g packet, how much wort was there? Also curious what your OG was and yeast used?

i had 19 gallons of wort and used about 8g of the enzyme. it was a club brew and my friend’s daughter wanted to add it but she spilled some lol. i only added it to the kettle so that everyone could take advantage of some enzymatic activity with their share of wort. the pH is better for the enzyme in the fermenter - probably why it isnt as good in the kettle.

my OG was 1.049. my friend fermented his share (undiluted) which was closer to 1.070-something. He also stopped at 1.004. He used US05. I used DryHop from Imperial.

 

[Morrey]

Brut IPA in FV using US-05. OG was 1.056 after using 2ml AML-GL in the mash and then additional 3 ml in the wort as it cooled.

On day 4 now and SG is at 1.009 and still off gassing in a very steady stream. If this doesn't get down to 1.000 (or close), I'll be surprised.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

Brut IPA in FV using US-05. OG was 1.056 after using 2ml AML-GL in the mash and then additional 3 ml in the wort as it cooled.

On day 4 now and SG is at 1.009 and still off gassing in a very steady stream. If this doesn't get down to 1.000 (or close), I'll be surprised.

Did you taste the gravity sample by chance?

 

[Morrey]

Did you taste the gravity sample by chance?

In fact I did. The yeast is very much still actively in suspension, so that is going to alter the perception to some degree.

At 1.009 there is still a bit of sweetness so its not quite bone dry yet. My WP hop schedule shows I'll get 28 - 32 IBU's, but the sample taste doesn't have hops screaming at me. Once it finishes and the dry hops are added, I can further evaluate how dominate the hops are perceived.

More to come...

 

[WiscoBrewer]

Brut IPA in FV using US-05. OG was 1.056 after using 2ml AML-GL in the mash and then additional 3 ml in the wort as it cooled.

On day 4 now and SG is at 1.009 and still off gassing in a very steady stream. If this doesn't get down to 1.000 (or close), I'll be surprised.

It sounds like we are on similar paths (1.054-1.010 in 4 days), mine is still chugging away as well.

I plan to wait to dry hop 2-3 days before kegging.

 

[TravelingLight]

I need some enzyme assistance. I've read through this thread again and still couldn't find my answer. My LHBS has the following two enzymes:

Is either of these the correct enzyme? Thankfully he charged me for one and let me take both of them until I find out which one I need.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

I need some enzyme assistance. I've read through this thread again and still couldn't find my answer. My LHBS has the following two enzymes:

Is either of these the correct enzyme? Thankfully he charged me for one and let me take both of them until I find out which one I need.

The Glucoamylase is what used. I used the whole 10g packet in 6gallons after the whirlpool.

 

[TravelingLight]

The Glucoamylase is what used. I used the whole 10g packet in 6gallons after the whirlpool.

Thank you! I was assuming the gluco based on the preferred temps of it. Just wanted to be sure.

 

[doug293cz]

The Glucoamylase is what used. I used the whole 10g packet in 6gallons after the whirlpool.

The glucoamylase is the one that will chop dextrins down to glucose that the yeast can eat. Alpha amylase cannot chop up dextrins. It's the elimination of dextrins that enables the very low FG's in a Brut, since dextrins are not fermentable.

Brew on

 

[cheesebach]

This will end up attenuating a bit more and we’ll see if it dries out, but I’m willing to bet I added too much glucoamylase and/or for too long and next time if I half the dose or don’t add any at all I’ll still have a sub 1.010 beer that actually tastes dry.

I think I’d likely have the opposite reaction in that situation - if the beer got stuck near 1.010 and tasted sweet, I might suspect that I either didn’t add enough of the enzyme to free up all the extra sugars fast enough in the fermentation (and try increasing my dose next time), or look at trying to keep the yeast active for longer - either by adding more nutrient or adding some fresh active yeast from a small starter as fermentation started to slow.

I’d expect the sweetness is just simply that the beer is at 1.010 with very low IBUs and not anything caused by “over-enzyming”, if it’s even possible to do that in this style.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

Went from 1.054 to 1.010 in 4 days, two days later it’s at 1.002 and bone dry. Lost the sweetness I was worried about at day 4. Tastes vaguely like sake right now. I’ll let it go for a couple more days then dry hop for 2-3 days and keg.

 

[Morrey]

Brut got down to 1.006 on Wed eve as it was 1.009 that morning...definitely slowing down. Closed the BO valve on my FV (Uni tank) since I could only see an off gas bubble every now and again....so I was thinking I may be close to done. I typically close the BO valve when close to FG so I can get some natural carbonation in the beer.

This morning (Thurs day 5) to my surprise, I had 10 psi of pressure on my tank. This means 1.006 has attenuated on down a good bit more to create this kind of pressure. I didn't do a hydrometer gravity reading as I am not inclined to waste** more samples, but I'll bet this beer will be close to 1.000 when it finishes based on the trends I'm seeing now.

I did take a few ml of the beer since I have a sample port and can taste it w/o taking enough for a full sample. The beer is very dry and now the hop flavors seem nicely balanced. There is just enough carb in the beer to give it some effervescence, so this one is going to be a winner for sure! The dry hops will ice the cake. Love it.

**Question: Referencing not wasting samples with repeated floating hydrometer readings. Does anyone have success with a refractometer and using the calculator with alcohol present to get an accurate SG? I tried this method and was not very close to what the floating hydrometer actually reads. The calculator I used was on Brewers Friend. Anyone had better accuracy than what I got?

 

[stickyfinger]

Brut got down to 1.006 on Wed eve as it was 1.009 that morning...definitely slowing down. Closed the BO valve on my FV (Uni tank) since I could only see an off gas bubble every now and again....so I was thinking I may be close to done. I typically close the BO valve when close to FG so I can get some natural carbonation in the beer.

This morning (Thurs day 5) to my surprise, I had 10 psi of pressure on my tank. This means 1.006 has attenuated on down a good bit more to create this kind of pressure. I didn't do a hydrometer gravity reading as I am not inclined to waste** more samples, but I'll bet this beer will be close to 1.000 when it finishes based on the trends I'm seeing now.

I did take a few ml of the beer since I have a sample port and can taste it w/o taking enough for a full sample. The beer is very dry and now the hop flavors seem nicely balanced. There is just enough carb in the beer to give it some effervescence, so this one is going to be a winner for sure! The dry hops will ice the cake. Love it.

**Question: Referencing not wasting samples with repeated floating hydrometer readings. Does anyone have success with a refractometer and using the calculator with alcohol present to get an accurate SG? I tried this method and was not very close to what the floating hydrometer actually reads. The calculator I used was on Brewers Friend. Anyone had better accuracy than what I got?

yes. get a refractometer. a few drops gives excellent estimates of FG.

 

[Morrey]

View attachment 580824
Went from 1.054 to 1.010 in 4 days, two days later it’s at 1.002 and bone dry. Lost the sweetness I was worried about at day 4. Tastes vaguely like sake right now. I’ll let it go for a couple more days then dry hop for 2-3 days and keg.

Sake.....I can totally believe that. Sake fermentation uses a fungus enzyme like aspergillus niger to convert the rice starches into fermentable sugars. Ironically, the enzymes we use are probably similar or the same enzymes you could make sake with. I bet the sake influence would be more significant for those who use rice as an adjunct with barley in this Brut IPA. Cool!

 

[WiscoBrewer]

Sake.....I can totally believe that. Sake fermentation uses a fungus enzyme like aspergillus niger to convert the rice starches into fermentable sugars. Ironically, the enzymes we use are probably similar or the same enzymes you could make sake with. I bet the sake influence would be more significant for those who use rice as an adjunct with barley in this Brut IPA. Cool!

My thoughts as well and I have read the same thing about some of these enzymes. I used flaked rice as I wanted to steer clear of any corn flavor, but didn’t consider a sake flavor lol

 

[Morrey]

My thoughts as well and I have read the same thing about some of these enzymes. I used flaked rice as I wanted to steer clear of any corn flavor, but didn’t consider a sake flavor lol

I used 20% flaked corn...but darn, had you shared this earlier on, I may have loaded up on minute rice and had a Sake/Brut. LOL

Seriously, I bet that sake nuance will fade one you dry hop in the final stages.

 

[TravelingLight]

One thing I had not considered yet...are y'all fining with gelatin? I fin some of my beers, but probably don't fin more than I do fin (I brew a lot of hazy bois). I do think this is a style I want some clarity with though. I guess it'll be a game time decision for me near the end of fermentation depending on how samples look.

 

[bleme]

**Question: Referencing not wasting samples with repeated floating hydrometer readings. Does anyone have success with a refractometer and using the calculator with alcohol present to get an accurate SG? I tried this method and was not very close to what the floating hydrometer actually reads. The calculator I used was on Brewers Friend. Anyone had better accuracy than what I got?

None of the calculators I have seen will get you closer than 'ballpark' numbers. What they are very good at is telling you when fermentation is done as you are just comparing its own readings.

 

[couchsending]

Definitely going to fine. I feel like it’s mandatory for this style... or maybe just Lager it for a while..

 

[Morrey]

None of the calculators I have seen will get you closer than 'ballpark' numbers. What they are very good at is telling you when fermentation is done as you are just comparing its own readings.

"Ballpark", good term for this, agreed. That's the opinion I have after some testing. I have a couple of Tilts that work fine, but ironically my battery went dead (my fault not changing out) in the middle of fermentation leaving me to resort to my manual measuring devices for this batch.

One thing I had not considered yet...are y'all fining with gelatin? I fin some of my beers, but probably don't fin more than I do fin (I brew a lot of hazy bois). I do think this is a style I want some clarity with though. I guess it'll be a game time decision for me near the end of fermentation depending on how samples look.

I want this beer to be clear, and was mainly the reason I didn't use wheat and opted for US-05. I used whirlfloc near end of boil so that precipitated a good amount of sediment in the BK. I may add a bit of gelatin after I pull my dry hops, but then again, will the gelatin drop out my hop essences?

 

[TravelingLight]

I want this beer to be clear, and was mainly the reason I didn't use wheat and opted for US-05. I used whirlfloc near end of boil so that precipitated a good amount of sediment in the BK. I may add a bit of gelatin after I pull my dry hops, but then again, will the gelatin drop out my hop essences?

Nope! Not in my experience (and not according to Brulosopher, IIRC).

 

[stickyfinger]

None of the calculators I have seen will get you closer than 'ballpark' numbers. What they are very good at is telling you when fermentation is done as you are just comparing its own readings.

my refractometer and calculation is always the same as my crappy hydrometer when compared. the best is a FG hydrometer but I dont care that much i guess

 

[stickyfinger]

Nope! Not in my experience (and not according to Brulosopher, IIRC).

I have one data point. I did a side-by-side split-batch comparison of a west coast style ipa. one half was fined with gelatin, the other half not. my wife and i could not consistently tell them apart. They seemed the same to me. I was shocked. I thought for sure it would ruin the hop flavor. I haven't tried it in an NEIPA.

 

[cheesebach]

"
I want this beer to be clear, and was mainly the reason I didn't use wheat and opted for US-05. I used whirlfloc near end of boil so that precipitated a good amount of sediment in the BK. I may add a bit of gelatin after I pull my dry hops, but then again, will the gelatin drop out my hop essences?

FWIW, whirlfloc seems to make anything clear for me (aside from dry hop haze). I’ve done 40% wheat with no post-fermentation fining that came out crystal clear. The only time I’ve had a NEIPA come out looking like a standard IPA was the only time I’ve used whirlfloc in the book as well.

Regarding gelatin, I haven’t done any side-by-side experiments, so take this with a grain of salt, but I’ve been disappointed with the hop character when I’ve used it in IPAs/APAs before. I used it in the serving keg, so it’s possible the longer contact time behaves differently than when used in the fermenter as in the brulosophy experiment. It’s something I may experiment with again in the future, but in general, I’m not sure there’s a hop-forward style that I would want to be crystal clear anyways.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I used whirlfloc, gelatin, and cold crashing, and i couldn't drop the haze that came along with dry hopping with 4oz of pellets. Disappointed, to say the least, but the rest of the brew is still amazing.

 

[Morrey]

I have one data point. I did a side-by-side split-batch comparison of a west coast style ipa. one half was fined with gelatin, the other half not. my wife and i could not consistently tell them apart. They seemed the same to me. I was shocked. I thought for sure it would ruin the hop flavor. I haven't tried it in an NEIPA.

With your split batch (fined vs non-fined), was the fined batch visibly more clear than non-fined?

If you cant tell the difference taste-wise, this is a confidence builder to try gelatin with this beer. Good test!

 

[stickyfinger]

With your split batch (fined vs non-fined), was the fined batch visibly more clear than non-fined?

If you cant tell the difference taste-wise, this is a confidence builder to try gelatin with this beer. Good test!

The fined version is obviously on the left. The unfined version was much hazier.

Funny, I had the opposite reaction to the experiment. Since I did that test I figured fining doesn't help the beer flavor, so why not skip it. It's just one more step to fart around with that could add oxygen to the beer.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

I used some cryo hops to dry hop with in a NEIPA and it turned out pretty harsh and burn the back of your throat. Because of an up coming competition I didn’t have time to ride it out so I fined with some gelatin to pull the hop material out of suspension. It worked great, smoothed it out, the aroma didn’t change, and it was still hazy. Not opaque but hazy lol. I ended up with BOS in the all IPA competition.

 

[Morrey]

The fined version is obviously on the left. The unfined version was much hazier.

Funny, I had the opposite reaction to the experiment. Since I did that test I figured fining doesn't help the beer flavor, so why not skip it. It's just one more step to fart around with that could add oxygen to the beer.

I understand your point, and I see your experiment as fining doesn't "hurt" the beer flavor. Either way we view the end result, your split batch experiment is valuable.

 

[Morrey]

Couldn't help it, so I took another floating hydrometer reading at the end of day 5. The hydrometer reading speaks for itself, and I never expected to brew a beer that bottoms out at 1.000.

As not to waste the sample, I drank it. Darn this is going to be one heck of a beer after the DH and a few days to balance out the carbonation and smooth out. I think I better go ahead and start a half barrel batch as this one is going to go fast. A 7.35% ABV chugger!!

 

[jakturner]

Do the enzymes work on malt extract?

 

[stickyfinger]

Do the enzymes work on malt extract?

they would no doubt work in diluted malt extract.

 

[Morrey]

Don't know if I am happy or sad....the FG on my Brut has bottomed out and on day 8 my readings are repeatedly stable at .997. I suppose this is what I was looking for but it does seem a shade lower than expected. I am sure this beer will be awesome so I'm only going by the hydrometer readings.

BTW, what are others doing to control the FG? I guess there are standard ways such as yeast selection and mash temps, but not sure how this will be impacted by the enzymes?

Any ideas?

 

[cheesebach]

Don't know if I am happy or sad....the FG on my Brut has bottomed out and on day 8 my readings are repeatedly stable at .997. I suppose this is what I was looking for but it does seem a shade lower than expected. I am sure this beer will be awesome so I'm only going by the hydrometer readings.

BTW, what are others doing to control the FG? I guess there are standard ways such as yeast selection and mash temps, but not sure how this will be impacted by the enzymes?

Any ideas?

What mash temp did you go with? It seems like when using enzyme in the fermenter, it’s going to get down pretty low. I’m not sure that’s there’s any need to use a lower mash temp than the usual 150-154F unless you use the enzyme in the mash and need to keep the temp low to prevent denaturing. Same probably goes for yeast selection - I’d bet most would get down plenty low, so the flavor/ester profile (or lack there of) is probably more important than the expected attenuation.

 

[doug293cz]

Don't know if I am happy or sad....the FG on my Brut has bottomed out and on day 8 my readings are repeatedly stable at .997. I suppose this is what I was looking for but it does seem a shade lower than expected. I am sure this beer will be awesome so I'm only going by the hydrometer readings.

BTW, what are others doing to control the FG? I guess there are standard ways such as yeast selection and mash temps, but not sure how this will be impacted by the enzymes?

Any ideas?

I thought the whole point of a brut was to get the FG down as far as possible. If you put a glucoamylase enzyme in the fermenter, it will reduce any and all polysaccharides to glucose, which will all ferment (unless the yeast is killed by too much alcohol.) If you want to have any residual detextrins, etc., you need to use the enzyme in the mash, and do a mash out to denature the enzymes when you get the sugar profile you are looking for. Knowing when you have the desired sugar profile is the hard part (i.e. I have no idea how to do that.)

If you are looking to hit a "sweet spot" between bone dry and more typical ~1.010 beers, the most reliable way may be blending a brut and a normal, made with the same recipe, yeast, process, etc. (except the brut gets enzymes.)

Brew on

 

[crusader1612]

This is a super interesting style to drink and make. There are a. Purple of versions around where I come from. It seems a real balancing act between hops and malt. Given the lack of backbone in the grist.
My little fun theory is to make what I called a brut Saison I did it a couple of years ago.
Mash as normal at low temps and then cap off the mash at the end with a minimum of 15% acidulated malt and sparse boil from there. Lower the ph to a range within the realms of a wine/champagne. Then add wine type hops. Blanc and sauvin in if quantities at whirlpool and dryhopping only. I did it without the hops last time and added white wine instead. I feel as though both would work together well. Use a clean Chico strain in place of Saison. And viola tart hoppy and clean Ale which should dry out nicely.
The grist would literally be 100% Pilsner.

 

[jakturner]

For those of you that are using this 10g pack, how much did you add for 5 gallons? Also did you just mix it with warm water? I plan on adding it to the fermentor.

 

[TravelingLight]

View attachment 581508For those of you that are using this 10g pack, how much did you add for 5 gallons? Also did you just mix it with warm water? I plan on adding it to the fermentor.

I used that exact package this weekend. I used the whole thing. Opinions are kind of all over the place so I tried to tag team it. I added 3g during my sparge (batch sparge with room temp water, so temps were not an issue), then I added the remainder of the enzyme during chilling once the wort was at/below 130*. So I hit it with a little bit pre-boil, then the rest after the boil going into the fermenter.

ETA: I just sprinkled it on top of the mash/wort and stirred it in. It seemed to mix very easily without clumping.

 

[WiscoBrewer]

View attachment 581508For those of you that are using this 10g pack, how much did you add for 5 gallons? Also did you just mix it with warm water? I plan on adding it to the fermentor.

I used the whole 10g. If you’re using it in the fermenter I’d mic it with some sanitized water, it will clump up on you. However, it’s best used at suggested temps. Not sure how well it works at fermentation temps.

 

[brew703]

I'll be attempting this one on Friday.
79.4% Pilsner
10.3% White Wheat
10.3% Flaked Rice
Mash 148 for 90 min
75 min boil
Whirlfloc & yeast nutrient added at 10 min remaining in boil

US05
Not sure of fermentation yet. Probably 62-65 degrees
2ML enzyme added during mash at 145 degrees (30 min)
3ML enzyme added during cool down after boil at 125 degrees (30 min)
2 oz each Citra/Mosaic WP for 30 min @ 170-180 degrees
3 oz each Citra/Mosaic DH for 3-4 days.