Anyone brewing Brut IPA?

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RocketBrewer

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I'd love to start a discussion about techniques and recipes for this relatively new ultra-dry IPA. Does anyone here have experience with these that would like to share? I'm eager to try brewing one of these and would appreciate any suggestions I can get. I've read quite a few articles, but most were from commercial brewers, not homebrewers. In particular, I'd like to hear what enzymes you used and when. What yeasts you've used, hops, grain bills, etc.

Cheers
 

doug293cz

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Sounds interesting. I haven't tried (either drinking or brewing) one of these yet, but like really dry beverages in general.

I would think amylase enzyme in the fermenter would really help dry the beer out (this is a trick used for fixing stuck fermentations.) Different enzymes work differently. Most amylase works only on the 1-4 (non-branching) bonds, so cannot break down limit dextrins. I have seen some that claim to also be able to cleave the 1-6 (branching) bonds, so in theory could completely convert even limit dextrins into fermentable sugars. You could also try adding amylase enzymes late in the mash and extending the mash time to get more fermentable sugars, especially with the 1-6 active enzymes. Have to look at the upper temp limits for whatever enzyme you use in the mash.

Brew on :mug:
 

cactusgarrett

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You're lucking out today!
Chris Colby's blog has the latest on Brut IPA http://beerandwinejournal.com/
Pretty interesting! A local joint around here does a Brut IPA that I'm hoping to clone in the near future, as they conveyed the grainbill and some tips. One thing that threw me for a loop was "5 BU of X hops at 90min" and nothing else except for whirlpool and dry hopping. The dryness must work in conjunction with the minimal bitter hopping to convey a more perceived bitterness than the numbers suggest.

I wish Chris had some experience with the style he's writing about, if for nothing else than to have more empirical data.
 

Lefou

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I've added extra amylase to extended mash worts to create some dry beers, but a Brut IPA is going the extra few yards. One of my blondes actually returned a post-carb gravity of 1.004 (hydrometer).
At this low gravity, a modest amount of low alpha aroma hops can actually seem a bit more bitter because it doesn't have much sugar to balance the hops, but at some point, I'd be worried about the beer being too thin and watery.
 

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doug293cz

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cactusgarrett

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The recipe I've got (alluded to above) includes a 2oz whirlpool addition of Enigma. As I don't have that at my disposal, would Nelson Sauvin be a good sub? I'm unfamiliar with either variety.
 

Andrew Hodgson

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Style looks interesting. This randomly is something I have fallen into as in my attempt to make a really light dry lagerish beer I used glucoamylase (10g) to try and achieve a dryness this appears to be shooting for as well. I added the enzyme per the package to my kettle after turning off the heat. It gives a temperature range (can't remember off-hand but I think it likes between 130-140). So I cooled to that range, pitched it near the top, stirred well and just kind of rested the kettle for about 10 minutes, then continued cooling as normal and pitched yeast. By the way 5 gallon batch-size I just threw the whole packet in, maybe too much? RDWHAHB.

I got this procedure from the packet and my LHBS store owner, since I did it I have seen others talking about using the enzymes to fix stuck fermentations. I did see in one of the above articles someone mentiones they have not studies the hot-side addition of adding the enzyme so I guess I'll be a case study.

I have no damn clue what the result will be but I will likely be taking a gravity reading in a few days and I will post the results since it seems the dryness is what we are trying to figure out here.
 

cactusgarrett

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I'd be really interested in a side-by-side comparison of batches that used the 1-4 vs 1-6 bond enzymes that Doug references above, mainly because it seems like the 1-4 is much more readily available as the typical alpha amylase in brew shops. Wondering if I should attempt to find the 1-6 for my attempt at this, or if I'm sweating the tiny details too much.
 

couchsending

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Going to try one of these this week I think. You can buy the AG300 enzyme on Amazon. I’ve used it three or four times but wasn’t trying to eliminate all sugars, it definitely works. I would think having pretty low PH throughout the process is pretty key to these beers. Might actually split a batch and try half with a specific wine yeast to see what it might add.
 

Andrew Hodgson

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Finally got to taking a hydrometer reading of my beer in which I added glucoamylase into the kettle after the boil, reading was a clean 1.006 after 13 days in fermentation (Nottingham yeast).

I can confirm that by using glucoamylase (10g) in the boil kettle I seem to have been able to get this beer very dry. How it tastes at the end will be another matter.
 
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thehaze

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Nottingham is pretty attenuative on its own. It easily gets down under 1.010. Just this year I brewed a 5.5% ABV Pale Ale and it finished at 1.008 ( 96% Maris Otter + 4% Crystal 60L ) by mashing low at 149F/65C for 90 minutes.

I think it's worth trying Nottingham with some sugar in the boil and with a low-ish starting gravity, something like 1.050 and hopefully it can get down to 1.005. Maybe that's something I might try next time. I am unsure if being so dry would be an issue.
 

Andrew Hodgson

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Just took another OG reading two days into my diacetyl rest before crashing. Beer is now reading flat 1.000. Calibrated hydrometer etc. I haven't brewed this without the glucoamylase to confirm it helped but I'd say it definitely cranked down all the way.
 

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At least a new hype that sounds drinkable :D

I still have some Ultraferm flying around, I might give the But Brew a go with it :)

All MO, OG 1.04 to 1.045 flame out hops only, maybe a bit of dry hopping as well.

Let's see :)
 

thehaze

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Miraculix that sounds like a solid plan. In the lines of what I'm gonna try in the near future. I would definitely use Nottingham for this, as it seems like one of the better, " dry " options.

Cheers!
 

Miraculix

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Miraculix that sounds like a solid plan. In the lines of what I'm gonna try in the near future. I would definitely use Nottingham for this, as it seems like one of the better, " dry " options.

Cheers!
Exactly what I thought. I am thinking about throwing in a pack of Windsor as well, together with the notti.

Wanted to give it some English character and always wanted to try this combination out... Although I am actually not sure about it. Maybe I try the combination with my house ale instead and stick to one yeast with this one.
 

doug293cz

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I'm looking at doing something about half/half with MO and Pilsner. What do you think about tossing in a little Victory for some added complexity? Thinking cascade, simcoe and amarillo for hops. I'll be adding Amylo 300 (a dextrin eater) the the fermenter. Yeast will be Chico strain, with EC-1118 pitched late if it looks like it's stalling out.

Brew on :mug:
 

Miraculix

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I'm looking at doing something about half/half with MO and Pilsner. What do you think about tossing in a little Victory for some added complexity? Thinking cascade, simcoe and amarillo for hops. I'll be adding Amylo 300 (a dextrin eater) the the fermenter. Yeast will be Chico strain, with EC-1118 pitched late if it looks like it's stalling out.

Brew on :mug:
I haven't brewed one of those so my aim is to keep it as simple as possible and move forward from there. I use only mo because I have a lot of it on hand. Your combination of lager and mo sounds fine but I would skip any additional malt.
 

stickyfinger

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Does anyone know if some Beano from the drug store would be equivalent to the brewing enzymes? I want to try this style out for sure!
 

cactusgarrett

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I doubt it. Beano is not amyloglucosidase, it's alpha galactosidase. Chris Colby, in his writeup on this, didn't mention using beano, where that would seem to be low-hanging fruit if it were an option. Additionally, the list of things the amyloglucosidase works on sounds longer than that of beano.

Hell, even the ones he mentioned (Ultra Ferm and Amlo 300) appear to work on the 1-4 AND 1-6 linkages, where i think i read the typical amylase enzyme found in brew shops only works on the 1-4 linkage. I made sure to get the 1-4 and 1-6 enzyme for my attempt, but i would wager i wouldn't be able to tell the difference between beers that used that vs the "1-4 only" enzyme sourced at any LHBS.
 

couchsending

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I'm looking at doing something about half/half with MO and Pilsner. What do you think about tossing in a little Victory for some added complexity? Thinking cascade, simcoe and amarillo for hops. I'll be adding Amylo 300 (a dextrin eater) the the fermenter. Yeast will be Chico strain, with EC-1118 pitched late if it looks like it's stalling out.

Brew on :mug:
If you use the enzyme and do everything to maximize fermentability in the mash I don’t see any reason why Chico would stall out. You can easily get it down to 1.006 without the enzyme. I would pitch a diastaticus strain over EC-1118 personally. It can’t ferment long chain sugars and I would assume that would be all that’s left if Chico “stalls”. I doubt Chico will need any help.
 

doug293cz

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If you use the enzyme and do everything to maximize fermentability in the mash I don’t see any reason why Chico would stall out. You can easily get it down to 1.006 without the enzyme. I would pitch a diastaticus strain over EC-1118 personally. It can’t ferment long chain sugars and I would assume that would be all that’s left if Chico “stalls”. I doubt Chico will need any help.
With the Amylo 300 enzyme, I shouldn't need a diastaticus strain, as the Amylo will reduce all starches, and dextrins, etc. to glucose.

Brew on :mug:
 
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RocketBrewer

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I brewed my first Brut last weekend using pilsner malt, about 27% flaked corn, and some acid malt to bring down the PH. I mashed for 90 minutes at 147-148f (BIAB). After removing the grain, l let it cool to below 140 and added 1 gram per pound of grain of amyloglucosidase enzymes and held it for an hour at 135-138f. After that, I brought it to a boil and continued as normal. After chilling to 64f, I pitched a healthy starter of Imperial Flagship (Chico) yeast. Fermentation stopped at 1.005, a little higher than I would have liked. I've heard others say they've had to add enzymes to the fermenter also to get it to come down below 1.000 where it probably should be. Not sure if I should just sprinkle more in dry, or try to dissolve some in a little water before adding it. Not sure how much more to add either. Anyone have any suggestions?
 

couchsending

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I brewed my first Brut last weekend using pilsner malt, about 27% flaked corn, and some acid malt to bring down the PH. I mashed for 90 minutes at 147-148f (BIAB). After removing the grain, l let it cool to below 140 and added 1 gram per pound of grain of amyloglucosidase enzymes and held it for an hour at 135-138f. After that, I brought it to a boil and continued as normal. After chilling to 64f, I pitched a healthy starter of Imperial Flagship (Chico) yeast. Fermentation stopped at 1.005, a little higher than I would have liked. I've heard others say they've had to add enzymes to the fermenter also to get it to come down below 1.000 where it probably should be. Not sure if I should just sprinkle more in dry, or try to dissolve some in a little water before adding it. Not sure how much more to add either. Anyone have any suggestions?
I’ve only ever used the liquid form of Ag300 but I’ve added it after primary was over and fermentation definitely starts right back up. It doesn’t take much. In liquid I’ve onmy ever added 1ml to 6 gallons.
 

duelerx

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What about Wyeast 2565 for this style?, i think the winey esters could pair well with other hops as Nelson or Blanc.
 

day_trippr

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I just had a couple of pours of my first Kolsch using 2565. Given there's not a lot to a Kolsch the yeast character can really shine (or trash it all) and the flavor of this beer is fabulous.
So I'm digging the 2565, but can it dry out a beer enough for this style?

Cheers!
 

doug293cz

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If you use Amylo 300 in the fermenter, just about any yeast should work, as long as you don't exceed its alcohol tolerance. Amylo 300 will reduce all starch and dextrin in the fermenter to glucose, which any yeast can eat easily. Don't know how long it takes (yet.)

Brew on :mug:
 

stickyfinger

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i used 1007 in a few ipas. i didnt like it at the end of the day. had too much sulfury flavor. not sure if 2565 would work better
 

day_trippr

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Wrt 2565 at least, time is a friend.

I ran this Kolsch at 60°F then slowly took it down to 34°F before kegging, then gave it another 3 weeks of lagering (so far).
I noticed a faint whiff of sulphur while cleaning up after kegging, but that wasn't the first time that's happened, especially with lager strains.
Anyway I had about a quart that wouldn't fit so I stuck it in a carbonation bottle and after 3 weeks (today) the pours from that bottle were wonderful with not a hint of sulphur. Again, that's consistent with past experience with other cold-run yeasts. They tend to clean up after themselves if given enough time.

Anyway...I reckon the 10% abv Wyeast assigns to 2565 ought to work.
I'm always trawling around for new styles to trial, this might be interesting.
At 10 gallons per crack there's a rather significant commitment level required but somehow - with enough reading - I've always lucked out :)

Cheers!
 

cactusgarrett

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Trying my hand at this style on Saturday with an addition of amylo to the kettle before boil. Anyone who has used the amylo powder have suggestions on how much to add? I think i saw 10g but didn't see per volume referenced.

Edit: after doing some reading up and trending of people's experiences with the amylo, I think I'll use it in the fermenter, as it sounds like it needs more than kettle-amounts-of-time to get it down near 1.000.
 
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Crice

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Brewed one 2 weeks ago, getting ready to package this weekend. Here's what I did:

7# 2-Row
1# Golden Promise
1# sugar (Plain old C&H white sugar)

1/4 ounce Nelson Sauvin @ 60
1/4 ounce Nelson Sauvin @ 20
1/2 ounce Sorachi Ace @20
1/2 ounce Sorachi Ace @ 5

Dry hop for 7 days with
1/2 ounce Sorachi Ace
2 ounces Centennial

Mash @ 140 for 30 minutes with 1 Tsp amylase enzyme
Raise to 150 for another 30 minutes

Amylase I used: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006O2D7DA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Ferment with Imperial A38 Juice at 66 with another Tsp amylase enzyme, raise 2 degrees per day to 72 after 3 days.

O.G. 1.052
F.G. 1.000

Smelled and tasted amazing out of the fermenter, can't wait to taste it cold and carbonated!
 
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Dcpcooks

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https://www.homebrewing.org/FermFas...MIg7a3quXT2wIVD77ACh2K5gz8EAQYAiABEgI5DfD_BwE

My buddy brewed two different batches last month and used this enzyme. Both beers finished below 1.000. Pretty bone dry stuff. I enjoyed the beers and will probably make a batch at some point soon.

The take aways we noticed were 1) bittering hop rates needed to be reduced by about 5% to offset the lack of malt backbone ie residual sweetness from the low FG relative to a traditional ipa.

It was also somewhat like making a clean light crisp pilsner in that there isn’t much to hide behind. Fermentation control and fresh ingredients are important to the finished taste.

It’s a nice style for summer weather
 

stickyfinger

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Dang, I got the amylase enzyme formula from BSG. Turns out it only does the 1,4 linkages. Anyone have any idea how much less fermentable my wort will be? Maybe I'll use these this time and do a step mash and see what happens.
 

radwizard

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Imperial Yeast just released A30 "Corporate". Apparently it is a strain for Brut IPA. I haven't tried it but thought I would pass it along as I have been following this thread. It looks like a seasonal that was released today.
 
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