Imagine an Oatmeal Stout, stuck at 1.030, then using AE to fix it successfully. Sounds very, very familiar
Maybe you can get some more info from the following thread:Escape from Stuck Fermentation Mountain - AE to the Rescue
Amylase enzyme
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Imagine an Oatmeal Stout, stuck at 1.030, then using AE to fix it successfully. Sounds very, very familiar
Maybe you can get some more info from the following thread:Escape from Stuck Fermentation Mountain - AE to the Rescue
lemy
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Oh that is a great thread, Thanks!
lemy
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I did a gravity check last night and it has gone down from 12brix to 11brix. currently around 1.022
So, where does it stop?
I am happy to see the gravity drop, but I really didn't want a dry stout. My goal was somewhere around 1.017-1.019...
So, where does it stop?
I am happy to see the gravity drop, but I really didn't want a dry stout. My goal was somewhere around 1.017-1.019...
The only way to stop it is to kill the yeast. You'll need heat to do that.
It'll keep fermenting to the limit of fermentation, which is about 85% of the OG. For you, that's 1.012.
Can you cite any references for this please?
Alpha amylase is the same enzyme in barley. At mash temperatures, they are slowly denatured, but not before they cleave the big sugars. At room temperature, they work forever, to the extent that AE can. That's it's "limit of fermentation".
I read it on Kai Troester's site. It's also in this big expensive brewing book I have. I'll cut the quote out of there and drop the link here after I get back from the dog park
MrFancyPlants
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Alternatively, if the gravity goes too low, you could add some lactose in to raise it back up. I bet it'll turn out pretty nice as is.
lemy
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That is true, but I think I will live with the 1.012, which is totally acceptable. I do not want to do any more to this beer than I already have
lemy
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Sulfites would do it too, which is what they do in wine and cider, but 1.012 for a FG is fine with me. I just hope it isn't jet fuel
Thanks for the info!
See links at link below. Got rained on at the dog park btw.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7220531&postcount=33
Starch is made up of amylose and amylopectin. Amylose is a straight chain polymer made of up of lots of glucose molecular units bonded together. Amylopectin is made up of lots of straight chain segments made up of glucose, along with occasional branches. Amylose can be completely converted to fermentable sugars by both alpha and beta amylase. However, the amylase enzymes cannot break the bonds at amylopectin branch points, and in fact cannot even cut off all the glucose molecules near the branch points. So what's left over, after the amylase has done all that it can do, is branched remnants of the amylopectins, with short glucose chains emanating from each of the original branch points. These are known as limit dextrins.
Adding amylase enzyme to the fermenter can finish converting any amylose that was left after the mash, and can convert any dextrins with long glucose chains to limit dextrins, plus maltose & glucose.
(The following paragraph was edited on 2/22/24 by doug293cz. .pdf attachment on Limit Dextrinase added as well.)
There is an enzyme (limit dextrinase) in barley that can break the branching bond in amylopectin,
Beta amylase creates only maltose, so action by it will modify the molecular weight distribution of the sugars created in the mash to have a higher proportion of maltose than if the saccharification was the result of alpha amylase alone. Alpha amylase alone (ie without assistance by beta amylase) can reduce starch to all fermentable sugars and limit dextrins, if given enough time and it is not all denatured before the task is completed. Two common misconceptions are that beta amylase is responsible for the higher fermentability of wort mashed at lower temperatures, and that alpha amylase does not create fermentable sugars. The higher fermentability of wort mashed at lower temperatures is primarily due to the action of limit dextrinase, which converts dextrins to fermentable sugars, so there are less dextrins, and more fermentable sugars in the final wort (see attached paper.)
For more information read: www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Starch_Conversion
Brew on
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Natdavis777
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For my Cream Ale I used it in the mash (I believe it said that on the bottle) and it still finishes around 1.010. Should I be using this rather in the fermentor days before packaging instead?
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I'm not sure a cream ale should be dry. If you want it dryer mash at 147F and add AE in the secondary.
It probably wouldn't do much for you in the mash. The malting process ensures that your barley contains loads of these enzymes. AE in the mash could be useful if you had a mash with poor enzyme content, for example not much barley and a lot of rice and corn etc, where you might need to add additional enzymes. AE would work for that.
Note that when you boil, the AE is denatured and becomes useless.
It might not help much in the fermentor if you already got good attenuation. Just put a teaspoon in the fermentor and see what happens. Might get a couple of points more.
This thread has been extremely helpful. I have an ipa 1.65 OG on day 5 (verdant ipa yeast) that is still sitting at 1.30 FG. After a few more days, if it’s still high, I have some amylase enzyme on hand that I’ll try. If i do, i’ll report back
Are your measuring your current SG with a hydrometer, or refractometer? If a refractometer, are you using a correction calculator to account for the presence of ethanol?
Brew on
I use a tilt. It’s a split batch and both fermenters are showing the same reading. I’m running a propane setup, no recirculation, I think mash temp was pushing 159 - 160. I was aiming for 154…Are your measuring your current SG with a hydrometer, or refractometer? If a refractometer, are you using a correction calculator to account for the presence of ethanol?
Brew on
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The high mash temp is most likely the cause of the high (almost) FG. Amylase in the fermenter may help. But, it won't get you as low as a lower temp mash would have (I can explain if you're into nerdy things.)
Brew on
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I am a beer nerd, explain away!The high mash temp is most likely the cause of the high (almost) FG. Amylase in the fermenter may help. But, it won't get you as low as a lower temp mash would have (I can explain if you're into nerdy things.)
Brew on
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fluketamer
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i am not great at mash temps but i can imagine that if the optimal range to mash is lets say 149 to 166. then i can imagine mashing out of this range or closer to the limits would lead to less sacharification( always wanted to use that word in a post) . so maybe less sugar and more starch so less available sugar for the yeast to eat. so higher fg
also if close to 170 (mash out temps) i think that ireversibly denatures the enzymes that convert the starch to sugar.
not sure if this is right but it seems reasonable
also if close to 170 (mash out temps) i think that ireversibly denatures the enzymes that convert the starch to sugar.
not sure if this is right but it seems reasonable
Totally correct. For those who fly sparge, that mash out can be important to maintaining body that might be lost to the 45-60 minutes lautering the mash...
Cheers!
The high mash temp is most likely the cause of the high (almost) FG. Amylase in the fermenter may help. But, it won't get you as low as a lower temp mash would have (I can explain if you're into nerdy things.)
Brew on
First make sure you have read and understand this post earlier in this thread (recently edited.) By mashing as high as you did, you will have very quickly denatured the limit dextrinase, so very few of the branching bonds in the amylopectin will have been hydrolyzed (broken), leaving you with more branched dextrins in the final wort - that is less fermentable wort. The high temp probably also caused the alpha amylase to denature before the end of the mash, so that you are left with larger dextrins, rather than just limit dextrins. Adding alpha amylase to the fermenter can reduce the size of the dextrin molecules while creating more fermentable sugar, but it cannot reduce the number of branched dextrin molecules. If you had mashed lower, where limit dextrinase survived long enough to do significant work, you would have fewer branched dextrin molecules in the final wort.
Let me know if this didn't answer your question.
Brew on
Do it.
Yes the concepts are right, those denaturing numbers seem reasonable too. I
it bottomed out at 1.024, added a 1/4 tsp of amylase enzyme to each keg and it’s chewing away. I’ll reply back when it’s done eating
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