Amylase enzyme

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Wino24

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Can anyone tell me the "proper" way to use amylase enzyme? I saw a recipe where the OP stated he used amylase in the secondary to dry out the beer and I saw another post where someone stated to NEVER use it in the secondary. I brewed a light beer and I am looking to dry it out a bit more and thought that using the amylse in the secondary was the answer, but now I'm not so sure. Thoughts....comments?
Thanks
 

planenut

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I am trying some currently. There is not a lot of info and it is kind of a test for me.

I had two recent batches that finished a little higher than I would have liked.

FYI for how I did it.

Drish Irish Stout
Mashed @148 with good thermometer
1084 Irish Ale yeast with 1 liter starter on stir plate
Ferment temp - Started at 64 and ramped up to 67 after a few days
Brewed 11/19/09
OG 1.038
12/15/09 FG before AE 1.014 Then Added 1/2 tsp AE
12/24/09 FG 1.010


Dead Guy Clone
Mashed @ 156 w good thermometer
Pacman yeast with 1600 ml starter on stir plate
Ferment temp 62
Brewed 11/30/09
OG 1.-64
12/15/09 FG before AE 1.022 Then Added 1 tsp AE
12/24/09 FG 1.012 and now crash chilling

I believe it has stopped fermenting after about a week. No more bubbles (although I know that is not the only indication of fermentation). When I first added the AE, there was an immediate foaming action on the surface (not krausen, just about 1/8 inch of foam that dissipated quickly). Slow bubbling within 4 hours. Never a krausen, just small pockets of bubbles about the size of a quarter on the surface.

We will see how it tastes in a few weeks.
 

david_42

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You can safely use it in the secondary. Amylase enzyme has a branching limit and will not completely breakdown the complex malts.

Unlike Beano that will reduce your beer to colored water + alcohol if used in the secondary. Only use Beano if you need a low-carbohydrate beer.
 

annasdadhockey

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I used AA in secondary, and it took my IPA from 1.028 down to 1.017. Worked out perfectly, however YMMV.
 
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Wino24

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If anyone has experience using AE maybe they could answer another question.
The bottle of AE I got says 1tsp=5gal. I am doing a 2 gallon batch. So, after scaling (hopefully done correctly) I came up with 1gram per gallon( I am using 2 1-gallon jugs).
Anyway, after adding the AE I have not seen any activity at all, not even the small bubbles rising to the top that I have read about. Any ideas? Comments?
Thanks
 

annasdadhockey

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If anyone has experience using AE maybe they could answer another question.
The bottle of AE I got says 1tsp=5gal. I am doing a 2 gallon batch. So, after scaling (hopefully done correctly) I came up with 1gram per gallon( I am using 2 1-gallon jugs).
Anyway, after adding the AE I have not seen any activity at all, not even the small bubbles rising to the top that I have read about. Any ideas? Comments?
Thanks
I don't think you really need to be perfectly exact. It's only going to do so much, break so many chains, etc. I wouldn't go nuts with it. Just put about 1/4 tsp in each 1 gallon jug.

EDIT: I see you already added it. Keep us informed as to how it turns out. It may take a little bit to get some re-krauesening(sp?)...your hydrometer will tell you if it's working. Good Luck to you.
 

Sawdustguy

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I have used AE during primary fermentation to help along a brew I did with some under modified malt to hit a target gravity, but I never knew it would dry out a brew. I guess you learn something every day.
 
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Wino24

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The gravity when I racked and added the AE was 1.008...was hoping squeeze it a touch more...
 

bigred

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I got some of this to use in a light recipe that I'm making for BMC drinking friends and family. I am just wondering how you add it to the secondary? Do you have to mix it with a bit of water, or just dump it dry on top of the beer after it's racked?

Any help is appreciated.:mug:
 

android

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LHBS should have it. i've used it twice on a cream ale. it really does a nice job of getting it down there. combined with a low mash, i've gotten them to finish at 1.002 and 1.004, respectively. the first time i added it to secondary, just put the tsp in the bottom of the secondary and racked on top of it, i didn't see much activity, but it clears the hell out of the beer. the second time, i don't think i left the beer in primary long enough and racked it to secondary before most of the yeast had cleared and saw some foam (kindof a second krausen), but not thick like a normal krausen. again, it cleared really well, it was like a filtered beer right out of the keg.
 

KYB

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I was having thermometer issues and inadvertently mashed way too high. OG of 1.075-.1080 on 2 batches and a FG of 1.032. Used amalyse enzyme and it brought them both to 1.022. Seems to work very well. I couldn't find much info so decided to try it out myself. Some info said it would dry the hell out of my beer, which apparently it never does. One of the batches was primary after 4+ weeks and the other was kegged and decarbed.
 

sjlammer

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Sh*t. I wish i had seen this a few months ago. I had some thermometer troubles while mashing and ended up with an Oktoberfest with a FG of 1.030. I just kept letting it sit until it finally tasted like cardboard, then i finally dumped it.
 

Schlenkerla

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I have used AE on a lot light beers through out the summer last year. It does a good job of lowering the FG and clearing up the beer. Some say it looks as if its lager some swear its looks filtered.

I used it in my Miller Light Clone & Biermunchers Cream of 3-Crop. Every instance the beer was outstanding for not being lagered.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/miller-lite-really-triple-hopped-123937/
 

wendelgee2

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I have used AE during primary fermentation to help along a brew I did with some under modified malt to hit a target gravity, but I never knew it would dry out a brew. I guess you learn something every day.
where did you find under-modified malt in this day and age??
 

StAnthonyB

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I've actually never thought of using Amylase Enzyme in the primary or secondary. The idea does totally make sense. A few years ago I gave it a try in the mash and decided it wasn't doing anything for me there. Again, in all these years of brewing I never thought about adding it to my fermenters.

I could have recently used it when I had a 1.042OG finish off at 1.012FG that I was hoping to get down to 1.009. After six weeks it never got there.

I also have a 1.054OG that is down to 1.012 right now after 3 weeks. I would like to push it to 1.010FG. I expect it will finish off there in the next week or so.

I am using the Yorkshire Square yeast which drops out like a son of a gun. A little tip that I figured out is that the Yorkshire yeasts like get a little breathing rooml; that is, standard atmospheric pressure; so, I pop the manhole on my fermenter for like 10 second per day for the first 3 or 4 days and then once per week after the primary fermentation stage is over.
 

ChrisS68

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If I may ask, what is the reasoning behind using Amylase in the seconcondary rather than using it in the primary?
Thanks!
 

StMarcos

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My LHBS carries amylase. Not refrigerated. In the back of a drawer. Used some once to convert some corn and it didn't work. Bought some from mile high and it is a whole different ball game. I keep it refrigerated.
 

KYB

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If I may ask, what is the reasoning behind using Amylase in the seconcondary rather than using it in the primary?
Thanks!
I used it in a primary that had been stuck for weeks and in a keg (decarbed). Both worked great to bring down the high FG.
 

dstar26t

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I've used it once, and just recently.
Brewed a no-sparge Munich Dunkel and got 10% higher efficiency than expected (never tried no-sparge before). Obviously, due to the higher efficiency, the yeast starter I made previously was smaller than optimal. Also, mis-calculated the strike temp so the mash was 4F higher than planned. After 10 minutes of recirculating I got it down to 154. The beer went from 1.068 down to 1.029 after 4 weeks @ 50F. Transferred to secondary and harvested the yeast (no washing). Added 1 tsp Amylase Enzyme to the secondary and after 1 week there was no change (50F). I woke up 200mL of the slurry from the primary with a cup of wort and pitched it at high krausen. 2 weeks later the gravity was 1.017 (still kept at 50F). There was very little indication of fermentation, the only thing I saw was a few bubbles on the surface. I've since transferred it again and it is lagering now. Tastes fine so far.
 

lemy

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Great thread!

I have an Oatmeal Stout that was supposed to come in at 1.060, but instead came in at 1.080 (Somewhere I have a measurement off...) I mashed high, 155, with the intention of not letting it dry out and have a fuller bodied.

the problem is that at 1.080 my yeast brought it down to 1.030 and quit. I roused the yeast (safale-04) with CO2, elevated the fermentation chamber temp from 68 to 70, and re-pitched with champagne yeast. Nothing works!

Now is my final attempt at saving my Stout, I purchased Amylase Enzyme Formula by BSG at my LHBS. BSG has zero instructions on usage. I even called them asking for some sort of information, which they had none. The label says 0.1-0.3 tsp per gallon.

I have 10 - 11 gallons of Stout in a conical fermenter. From what I have come to understand, after reading this thread, dump 3 tsp into the fermenter and check back in a couple days. Do not dissolve in a solution, no fus whatsoever.

Do I have this right?
Thanks!
 

MrFancyPlants

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I think it would take more than a couple days since it will be operating at much lower than it's optimum conversion temperature, and it will only work if there is remaining starch to be converted. Like when I accidentally boiled one of my first mashes in a crockpot.

I would give it 3 teaspoons and then wait a few weeks to see if it starts moving in the right direction. If that doesn't work you could always try a beano tab for cleaving longer chained sugars, but probably only a good idea as a last resort and if you plan on kegging, since there is a risk of bottle bombs, when bottled, as the enzyme doesn't break down.
 

lemy

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I guess I did not consider the temperatures involved and how that relates to time.

I do keg, so no worries there I guess.

Thanks for the reply
 

lemy

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The fermentation is stuck at 1.030, with a 1.080 OG.
Last evening (11/16/2015 - 5:30pm PST) I pulled the lid back from my conical and spooned in 3 to 3.5 teaspoons of BSG Amylase formula powder.

By 9:00pm PST there was activity in the airlock. Today 11/17/2015 6:30am PST I witnessed airlock activity.

Video of my fermenter and chamber
This is after 5 days of zero activity and no change in gravity, I am amazed!
 

MrFancyPlants

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Hey, that's good news. Looks like you did have some starch left from your mash. Also good that you didn't have to resort to beano as I hear that can turn your beer to mich ultra, and I'm not sure what an ultra stout would taste like, but probably not good.

How long was your original mash? Maybe too short or your temperature reading was off? Probably a good time to calibrate your thermometer.

Also, looks like a pretty sweet setup.

Unfortunately, I probably won't be doing any brewing for a long time as we had to vacate our house due to health and safety reasons stemming from an elderly hoarder living next door in our duplex. Now we are paying rent and mortgage and forced into a small apartment with a terrible commute etc. etc.
 

augiedoggy

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Unfortunately, I probably won't be doing any brewing for a long time as we had to vacate our house due to health and safety reasons stemming from an elderly hoarder living next door in our duplex. Now we are paying rent and mortgage and forced into a small apartment with a terrible commute etc. etc.
its comments like these that make me worry about renting the empty side of my duplex out....
 

Owly055

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I frequently use amylase. I bought a pound of powder about a year and a half ago, and it goes a LONG way. Just a tad in the mash will speed up conversion, and it's particularly useful when you use unmalted grains in any significant percentage. It's a great tool. Screw up and get your mash temp too high.... Let it cool a bit and toss in a bit, etc. I recently bought some AG300 fungal amylase with the idea of using it in secondary. I don't believe the powder really does much in secondary, but I've never done a side by side. It's a great tool in a number of applications. I wouldn't be without it, considering the small cost. A pound is about $15 including freight. 500ML of AG300 was about $25 including shipping, and should last for years!!

H.W.
 

lemy

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Hey, that's good news. Looks like you did have some starch left from your mash. Also good that you didn't have to resort to beano as I hear that can turn your beer to mich ultra, and I'm not sure what an ultra stout would taste like, but probably not good.

How long was your original mash? Maybe too short or your temperature reading was off? Probably a good time to calibrate your thermometer.
I originally wanted to make a 5-6%abv oatmeal stout that was a bit on the sweeter side, like a milk stout. I mashed at 155 for an hour and it is possible my analog thermometer in the thermowell of the mach tun is not calibrated. I typically use my digital thermocouple to check, because I have been burned with bad thermometers before. The OG was supposed to be 1.060, but I have a problem, which, I think, is in my volume measurement of the boil kettle. My pre-boil gravity was way low, so I had to do a 2 hour boil to get my OG in the right pace and also added a pound of corn sugar, but I overshot and ended up with 1.080. I think the fermentables were all fermented out at 1.030. It looks as though Amylase enzyme is doing the trick to break down some of the unfermentables.

We'll see how it ends up. I hope I saved my beer because it is the first I have brewed in almost a year, and I need some Holiday stout!
 

StMarcos

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Enzymash has high quality enzymes in small quantities. The problem I see with cultured enzymes is getting them to stop where you want them. It's easy to have a ferment drop to 0sg.
 

Owly055

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Enzymash has high quality enzymes in small quantities. The problem I see with cultured enzymes is getting them to stop where you want them. It's easy to have a ferment drop to 0sg.
Heat stops them just fine........ I find that they do not survive the boil..........
 

mredge73

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I have used it from time to time in the mash to aid conversion and dry thin bodied beers to colored water. Great for BMC clones.
I also use it with my rice wine; this stuff will turn steamed rice to syrup.

How does the branching limit work? I thought that this stuff had the potential to run away like Beeno so I have never used it post boil.
 

lemy

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Enzymash has high quality enzymes in small quantities. The problem I see with cultured enzymes is getting them to stop where you want them. It's easy to have a ferment drop to 0sg.
I was wondering about that. In my specific situation, I felt I had not other option to save the beer, because 1.030 just isn't palatable.

thanks for the info
 

Owly055

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Sure, but how do you know where the conversion is at when you denature?
Thus far, I have only used enzymes in the mash........ I use a refractometer, which tells me very easily when the conversion is complete. Fermentability is another matter altogether, and as I do not have any kind of fermentable sugar meter, it's purely a matter of experience, and developing techniques that give you the results you want. For example, one technique I often use is to dough in and leave the mash for the afternoon while I go out and fix somebody's tractor, or whatever. Doughing in at the typical 152, I know that the attenuation will be about the same as for a one hour mash. At the end of 4 hours, the temp will be around 130. As I do BIAB (more or less), I can easily reheat. I know from experience that if I add amylase at this point and heat very slowly up to 155 or so, I will end up with a very nice dry beer. When I put it in, and how slowly I reheat make a difference. I call this a "reverse step mash". It works for me, but I can't tell you how to do it. The results are very consistent, but you have to figure it out on your system. I brew small (3 gallons), and do not have any aversion to experimentation. You don't want to play with 11 gallon brews.

H.W.
 

jammin

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I've used amylase in the fermentor several times. 1/2tsp per 6gal aids in healthy attenuation. 1tsp per 6 gallons will yield a nice dry beer even with higher gravity worts.

I've had dipa's over 1.080sg finish at 1.005 using enzyme, Cali ale yeast and a little dex in the grist
 
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