AB acquired Wicked Weed

[bob1852]

Yeah - that's true. IIRC, that was to placate Sam Adams. I don't know if it's true or not but on a mailing list I'm on, I just read that Jim Koch wants to do something along the lines of a craft seal too... not sure how I feel about it now

Yep, started when Sam Adams when they exceeded production limits defined by the BA, and then they further tinkered with the definition to allow for certain % of non craft ownership.

That's why I hate the term craft. It depends what the definition of is, is.

 

[Teromous]

When I visited Asheville the Wicked Weed locations were like hipster flytraps, especially the Funkatorium. I imagine news like this would be blood in the water down there right now...

 

[applescrap]

As an interesting side note I'm curious how many of us actually buy any of these Brands anyways? Ill go first, i only buy bud light kegs when im feeling fat and choke it down and now have bought some goose ipa because I can buy cheap to have as a daily drinker.

I'm not willing to see the market get devastated so I can save a dollar or two but that's not what's happening. How many of us have better selections now then we did 5 or 10 years ago in beer stores. I can't see your hands raised but it's about all of us. Almost all of us have more selection in our liquor stores and more selections of breweries to go to and more selection quality. If the only choice in the liquor store was Budweiser and Bud Light than we would all stand arm-in-arm and raise hell. The problem is that's not the case. Many are complaining about shelf dominance and such but is that really truly happening. And if it were don't you think we would all be super pissed.


I'm sure those guys at Wicked Weed counting their millions aren't too angry. You all would do the same thing in their place regardless of what you would write here. Shouldn't you be mad at them? None of us would want a complete takeover but I'm not sure that's what's going on, because my beer world is better than it ever has been, as is most of yours.

So now I'm some sort of guy who wants to see my local home Beer Store go down because I think $20 kits are a good deal. If I'm the consumer isn't the cheaper product what's best for me? A lot of the local home Beer Store people don't know s*** and others are pricks. What the hell do I owe them? The guys at Northern Brewer are always nice to me and they always help me. And I've never even bought a damn thing from them. Imagine that from some of these local businesses, being nice and helpful to people who never buy anything from them.

No one likes bullies, especially me, but these gals/guys selling out to the perceived bully hasnt hurt me, yet. If it did i would be right with you.

 

[treacheroustexan]

As an interesting side note I'm curious how many of us actually buy any of these Brands anyways? Ill go first, i only buy bud light kegs when im feeling fat and choke it down and now have bought some goose ipa because I can buy cheap to have as a daily drinker.

I'm not willing to see the market get devastated so I can save a dollar or two but that's not what's happening. How many of us have better selections now then we did 5 or 10 years ago in beer stores. I can't see your hands raised but it's about all of us. Almost all of us have more selection in our liquor stores and more selections of breweries to go to and more selection quality. If the only choice in the liquor store was Budweiser and Bud Light than we would all stand arm-in-arm and raise hell. The problem is that's not the case. Many are complaining about shelf dominance and such but is that really truly happening. And if it were don't you think we would all be super pissed.


I'm sure those guys at Wicked Weed counting their millions aren't too angry. You all would do the same thing in their place regardless of what you would write here. Shouldn't you be mad at them? None of us would want a complete takeover but I'm not sure that's what's going on, because my beer world is better than it ever has been, as is most of yours.

So now I'm some sort of guy who wants to see my local home Beer Store go down because I think $20 kits are a good deal. If I'm the consumer isn't the cheaper product what's best for me? A lot of the local home Beer Store people don't know s*** and others are pricks. What the hell do I owe them? The guys at Northern Brewer are always nice to me and they always help me. And I've never even bought a damn thing from them. Imagine that from some of these local businesses, being nice and helpful to people who never buy anything from them.

No one likes bullies, especially me, but these gals/guys selling out to the perceived bully hasnt hurt me, yet. If it did i would be right with you.

This post is perfect.

 

[lschiavo]

As an interesting side note I'm curious how many of us actually buy any of these Brands anyways? Ill go first, i only buy bud light kegs when im feeling fat and choke it down and now have bought some goose ipa because I can buy cheap to have as a daily drinker.

I'm not willing to see the market get devastated so I can save a dollar or two but that's not what's happening. How many of us have better selections now then we did 5 or 10 years ago in beer stores. I can't see your hands raised but it's about all of us. Almost all of us have more selection in our liquor stores and more selections of breweries to go to and more selection quality. If the only choice in the liquor store was Budweiser and Bud Light than we would all stand arm-in-arm and raise hell. The problem is that's not the case. Many are complaining about shelf dominance and such but is that really truly happening. And if it were don't you think we would all be super pissed.


I'm sure those guys at Wicked Weed counting their millions aren't too angry. You all would do the same thing in their place regardless of what you would write here. Shouldn't you be mad at them? None of us would want a complete takeover but I'm not sure that's what's going on, because my beer world is better than it ever has been, as is most of yours.

So now I'm some sort of guy who wants to see my local home Beer Store go down because I think $20 kits are a good deal. If I'm the consumer isn't the cheaper product what's best for me? A lot of the local home Beer Store people don't know s*** and others are pricks. What the hell do I owe them? The guys at Northern Brewer are always nice to me and they always help me. And I've never even bought a damn thing from them. Imagine that from some of these local businesses, being nice and helpful to people who never buy anything from them.

No one likes bullies, especially me, but these gals/guys selling out to the perceived bully hasnt hurt me, yet. If it did i would be right with you.

I think this is exactly the way big business wants people to think. From a consumer's perspective, everything is great.

 

[FatDragon]

Even though I would agree monopolies are bad in just the general Spirit of things. Please explain how any of these buyouts have hurt you personally?

These are macro events, so no they haven't hurt me personally in any measurable way. Macrobreweries have hurt my ability to get good, affordable, widely-distributed beer though, by influencing regulations that severely limit craft brewers' ability to brew and sell beer in China - where I've lived for the last decade - such that there is almost no domestic craft beer sold outside of the rare brewpub, and it's just as expensive as imported craft beer because of the costs associated with entering the market through all of the regulations.

However, judging something based entirely on how it overtly affects you is wholly inadequate. To avoid the inevitable Hitler reference in an online argument, I'll defer to Pol Pot instead . Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge didn't personally affect me by committing genocide against the Cambodian people, but I'm still pretty secure in judging that what they did was a bad thing.

I think this is exactly the way big business wants people to think. From a consumer's perspective, everything is great.

I suspect we're gonna get shut down and moved to the debate forum pretty soon, but I'm right with you on this one. It's the same kind of argument that mobilizes blue-collar workers to vote for the politicians who want to give tax dollars to their bosses and not to them, and it's the same kind of economics that has transformed those blue-collar workers' towns from Main Street America communities with local diners and dime stores into Wal-Mart and McDonald's strip malls. But I'll be damned if extra-soft toilet paper isn't cheaper at Wal-Mart than it was at the Five and Dime.

 

[bford]

People hate it because ABInbev will expand them, and then use them to take over more taps and more shelf space. That is it.... also just tell it like it is... the money was to good to pass up OR this is what we planned and wanted all along.. It isn't to make it bigger and better and really push the envelope... that is just baloney and marketing talk.

ABInbev controls the profits and they will use some of them from Wicked Weed to push legislation that will hurt smaller breweries across the country.

Wicked Weed had a great name and rep and they would have continued to grow and expand without ABInbev. Nothing wrong with selling out. Just be honest about it.

 

[bford]

As an interesting side note I'm curious how many of us actually buy any of these Brands anyways? Ill go first, i only buy bud light kegs when im feeling fat and choke it down and now have bought some goose ipa because I can buy cheap to have as a daily drinker.

I'm not willing to see the market get devastated so I can save a dollar or two but that's not what's happening. How many of us have better selections now then we did 5 or 10 years ago in beer stores. I can't see your hands raised but it's about all of us. Almost all of us have more selection in our liquor stores and more selections of breweries to go to and more selection quality. If the only choice in the liquor store was Budweiser and Bud Light than we would all stand arm-in-arm and raise hell. The problem is that's not the case. Many are complaining about shelf dominance and such but is that really truly happening. And if it were don't you think we would all be super pissed.


I'm sure those guys at Wicked Weed counting their millions aren't too angry. You all would do the same thing in their place regardless of what you would write here. Shouldn't you be mad at them? None of us would want a complete takeover but I'm not sure that's what's going on, because my beer world is better than it ever has been, as is most of yours.

So now I'm some sort of guy who wants to see my local home Beer Store go down because I think $20 kits are a good deal. If I'm the consumer isn't the cheaper product what's best for me? A lot of the local home Beer Store people don't know s*** and others are pricks. What the hell do I owe them? The guys at Northern Brewer are always nice to me and they always help me. And I've never even bought a damn thing from them. Imagine that from some of these local businesses, being nice and helpful to people who never buy anything from them.

No one likes bullies, especially me, but these gals/guys selling out to the perceived bully hasnt hurt me, yet. If it did i would be right with you.

No problem with what you posted EXCEPT.... where you said you guys would do the exact same thing regardless of what you would write here.... there are people here who would turn down a HUGE crapload of money to continue making a very nice crapload of money.. all the while controlling every decision about their brewery.

There are plenty of great breweries that have turned down ABInbev and SABMiller. I've talked to one owner of an extremely well known and thought of Texas brewery. He was offered BIG money to sell. He laughed and told them it would never happen. He didn't need their money. Soon after a different large Texas craft brewery was purchased. They had been in it all along to sell and got their wish.

Again, I'm sure some would say one thing and do another, but using absolutes in situations like this rarely work out. Plenty of people would be happy where they are at or with smaller sustained growth.

 

[BrewKnurd]

If you look at the wine market, it's dominated by a handful of major companies. This is from 2011, so it's a bit old, but I'm guessing the rough numbers are still similar.

Gallo has like 23% market share (including a bunch of subsidiary brands you've heard of and drink--if you drink wine). The company that makes Franzia has 16% market share. In fact, most of the brands that you've probably heard of are owned by one of those companies.

• The top 6 control 64% of the market.
• The top 30 control over 90% of the market.

Yet there are over 8,000 wineries in the US. And nobody is sitting here lamenting the state of "independent winemakers selling out" that I'm aware of.

Like it or not, this is where the beer industry is going. And it's ok. What it means is that there's room for the big guy AND the little guy.

Hey, I hope that's where the beer market is going, because it would mean a significant *decrease* in the market share of the big brewers.

2015 stats:
AB-Inbev - 43.5%
Miller Coors - 25.1%
Top 5 control 82.5% of market

 

[bob1852]

I think this is exactly the way big business wants people to think. From a consumer's perspective, everything is great.

What's the split between big and small?

 

[FatDragon]

What's the split between big and small?

Compared to most craft breweries, Sierra Nevada is huge. Compared to AB-Inbev, Sierra Nevada is tiny. If we're drawing a line between "big" and "small" in the US beer world, we could probably safely draw it just two or three spots down the "market share" list.

In general, though, "big business" is a business that uses its dominant market share to bully smaller businesses out of the marketplace. It's like the guy who has a $4,000 stack at a $500 buy-in poker table - you buy into that table and you're almost certainly going to walk away empty-handed.

 

[applescrap]

These are macro events, so no they haven't hurt me personally in any measurable way. Macrobreweries have hurt my ability to get good, affordable, widely-distributed beer though, by influencing regulations that severely limit craft brewers' ability to brew and sell beer in China - where I've lived for the last decade - such that there is almost no domestic craft beer sold outside of the rare brewpub, and it's just as expensive as imported craft beer because of the costs associated with entering the market through all of the regulations.

However, judging something based entirely on how it overtly affects you is wholly inadequate. To avoid the inevitable Hitler reference in an online argument, I'll defer to Pol Pot instead . Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge didn't personally affect me by committing genocide against the Cambodian people, but I'm still pretty secure in judging that what they did was a bad thing.



I suspect we're gonna get shut down and moved to the debate forum pretty soon, but I'm right with you on this one. It's the same kind of argument that mobilizes blue-collar workers to vote for the politicians who want to give tax dollars to their bosses and not to them, and it's the same kind of economics that has transformed those blue-collar workers' towns from Main Street America communities with local diners and dime stores into Wal-Mart and McDonald's strip malls. But I'll be damned if extra-soft toilet paper isn't cheaper at Wal-Mart than it was at the Five and Dime.

China I don't know about, but you mention hitler to a jew in this discussion. Then genocide, wtf?

 

[applescrap]

No problem with what you posted EXCEPT.... where you said you guys would do the exact same thing regardless of what you would write here.... there are people here who would turn down a HUGE crapload of money to continue making a very nice crapload of money.. all the while controlling every decision about their brewery.

There are plenty of great breweries that have turned down ABInbev and SABMiller. I've talked to one owner of an extremely well known and thought of Texas brewery. He was offered BIG money to sell. He laughed and told them it would never happen. He didn't need their money. Soon after a different large Texas craft brewery was purchased. They had been in it all along to sell and got their wish.

Again, I'm sure some would say one thing and do another, but using absolutes in situations like this rarely work out. Plenty of people would be happy where they are at or with smaller sustained growth.

Im calling bs here, we have to agree to disagree with all the zeroes in front of you, I think you would sell.

 

[RevKev]

Oh wait is this another AB bought something thread? I'm guessing the strongly opinionated folks also are a transfer from the NB thread.

I would sell and I think threads like this reinforce the negative stereotype craft beer enthusiasts get. Albeit a Bud Light or a mago pineapple milkshake juice quadruple dry hop triple IPA brewed with holy water. Beer is beer and we should all learn to drink together and not further segregate our own side.

 

[bob1852]

In general, though, "big business" is a business that uses its dominant market share to bully smaller businesses out of the marketplace. It's like the guy who has a $4,000 stack at a $500 buy-in poker table - you buy into that table and you're almost certainly going to walk away empty-handed.

InBev's market share is on the decline.

If they're a bully, they're not a very good one.

And, all businesses are in competition which each other. Look at all the name/label lawsuits popping up everywhere between "craft" breweries...

 

[FatDragon]

China I don't know about, but you mention hitler to a jew in this discussion. Then genocide, wtf?

How am I supposed to know that you're Jewish, and how does it matter anyway? The point I was making (perhaps a bit too bluntly for your taste) is that how an event affects one personally is a poor criterion for judging the overall positive or negative impact of that event.

 

[applescrap]

How am I supposed to know that you're Jewish, and how does it matter anyway? The point I was making (perhaps a bit too bluntly for your taste) is that how an event affects one personally is a poor criterion for judging the overall positive or negative impact of that event.

I hear you. the problem is judging how Anheuser-Busch buying a Brewery affects you personally and judging how the death of 11 million people, 1.1 million of which were children, and mass genocide affect you personally seem a little different to me.

 

[FatDragon]

InBev's market share is on the decline.

If they're a bully, they're not a very good one.

And, all businesses are in competition which each other. Look at all the name/label lawsuits popping up everywhere between "craft" breweries...

As for declining market share, I'm not convinced that tells us anything. The craft beer movement has grown rapidly and taken business from the macros. Macros buying out major craft breweries gives them footing to use the same bullying tactics in the craft beer market that brought them to the top of the pisswater market.

In the last five years, how many new breweries have opened in the States? A couple thousand? I'll bet even if the craft beer section of your supermarket's beer fridge has expanded in that time (not my observation for most supermarkets on my trips to the US), AB-Inbev's percentage of the fridge has increased rather than decreased in that time, since they're getting chunks of the craft section as they buy breweries and expand their distribution.

The problem with the argument that all businesses are competing is that "big business" competes in a way that small businesses can't compete with. They don't win on merit, but on their sheer economic mass.

 

[FatDragon]

I hear you. the problem is judging how Anheuser-Busch buying a Brewery affects you personally and judging how the death of 11 million people, 1.1 million of which were children, and mass genocide affect you personally seem a little different to me.

Of course it's different. I'm not equating brewery buyouts with genocide. I'm using that extreme example to show that even something that doesn't affect you personally can be a bad thing.

 

[applescrap]

My beer store guy is so good, i have had pernicious and look what he had two sixers of. I got it, the fort collins gooser and odd 13 limited release thirdeen cent, which is like 3 days old. All 3 are good for different reasons. He assured me wicked weed was coming our way.

View attachment 1493958219723.jpg

View attachment 1493958371293.jpg

 

[Ed-Wort]

As sad as it is, at least Lagunitas went to heineken and not Inbev...as sad as it is.

 

[rodwha]

As an interesting side note I'm curious how many of us actually buy any of these Brands anyways? Ill go first, i only buy bud light kegs when im feeling fat and choke it down and now have bought some goose ipa because I can buy cheap to have as a daily drinker.

I'm not willing to see the market get devastated so I can save a dollar or two but that's not what's happening. How many of us have better selections now then we did 5 or 10 years ago in beer stores. I can't see your hands raised but it's about all of us. Almost all of us have more selection in our liquor stores and more selections of breweries to go to and more selection quality. If the only choice in the liquor store was Budweiser and Bud Light than we would all stand arm-in-arm and raise hell. The problem is that's not the case. Many are complaining about shelf dominance and such but is that really truly happening. And if it were don't you think we would all be super pissed.


I'm sure those guys at Wicked Weed counting their millions aren't too angry. You all would do the same thing in their place regardless of what you would write here. Shouldn't you be mad at them? None of us would want a complete takeover but I'm not sure that's what's going on, because my beer world is better than it ever has been, as is most of yours.

So now I'm some sort of guy who wants to see my local home Beer Store go down because I think $20 kits are a good deal. If I'm the consumer isn't the cheaper product what's best for me? A lot of the local home Beer Store people don't know s*** and others are pricks. What the hell do I owe them? The guys at Northern Brewer are always nice to me and they always help me. And I've never even bought a damn thing from them. Imagine that from some of these local businesses, being nice and helpful to people who never buy anything from them.

No one likes bullies, especially me, but these gals/guys selling out to the perceived bully hasnt hurt me, yet. If it did i would be right with you.

You seriously just don't get it what so ever. It is pointless it seems...

 

[madscientist451]

In general, though, "big business" is a business that uses its dominant market share to bully smaller businesses out of the marketplace.

Is this really happening in the US beer industry? One recent article said there are two new breweries opening every day in the US.
Also the "craft" sector of the beer market is growing faster than the overall beer market.
And other than complaining about AB partnerships or takeovers, is actually doing something to try to contain ABInBev really a good idea?
I don't go to pubs much anymore, but every time I go in the local liquor stores there's more and more inventory from producers I've never heard of.
If ABInBev is trying to control the beer market, it doesn't look their efforts are successful.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Is this really happening in the US beer industry? One recent article said there are two new breweries opening every day in the US.

Also the "craft" sector of the beer market is growing faster than the overall beer market.

And other than complaining about AB partnerships or takeovers, is actually doing something to try to contain ABInBev really a good idea?

I don't go to pubs much anymore, but every time I go in the local liquor stores there's more and more inventory from producers I've never heard of.

If ABInBev is trying to control the beer market, it doesn't look their efforts are successful.

Yes, it is absolutely happening in extremely meaningful ways.

Google "franchise laws".

 

[jmark]

So it looks like Lagunitas has now sold their remaining 50% to Heineken?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-heineken-lagunitas-20170504-story.html

 

[applescrap]

Apparently it's all just lost on some...


Again you seem to just miss it all



You seriously just don't get it what so ever. It is pointless it seems...

Three posts in a row, srsly. Maybe you dont get how to make a point, rodwha.

 

[Grannyknot]

This could be photoshopped, but dear lord if it isnt. Their premier event, which used to be the best of the best, is now just the breweries owned by ABinbev and its subsidiaries....some of which don't even have barrel programs, iirc.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Three posts in a row, srsly. Maybe you dont get how to make a point, rodwha.

He just doesn't get why you don't get it. Get it?

 

[bleme]

I'd put money on photoshopped.

 

[Grannyknot]

I'd put money on photoshopped.

i'm leaning that way as well. I know a lot have said they aren't coming, but to replace them with that....shew. Blue Point LOL.