BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
I would not be surprised if there was a no-compete clause for some period of time.
AB acquired Wicked Weed
- Thread starter Harry482
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
I would not be surprised if there was a no-compete clause for some period of time.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
They actually probably have to stay on for a lengthy period; maybe years. The sentiment is the same though...just delayed.
Hopefully they start distributing up north...:rockin:
And they inflated the price to $80.
Luckily, Kenwood liquors sold them for $60, and might still have a few in the back room. You have to ask for it. They have quite a few locations .
EcuPirate07
Beer is a food group
As a local I hate this. I think they will lose a lot of local support but gain more with a wider distro reach....there goes a lot of my trading power
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I can't really understand why anyone would care if ABInBev bought a brewery. The US passed the 5,000 brewery mark in 2016 and will probably go to 6,000 in a year or so. ABInBev can't buy them as fast as they are opening, there will always be more and more breweries, we aren't anywhere close to having a downsizing of the brewing business.
If Wicked Weed beer changes, there are plenty of other commercial beers to buy.
Or just make your own.
If Wicked Weed beer changes, there are plenty of other commercial beers to buy.
Or just make your own.
I always love the people who call breweries out for being "sell outs".
I'll tell ya what.... when someone offers you tens of millions of dollars for some sort of business you built... and you turn it down so you don't "sell out", then come back and preach about it. Until then, I think those people look like total jackazzes.
Will the beer ultimately suffer? Probably. The track record isn't too good with these buy-outs... but that's a different topic.
"Sell outs!" LOL! That's awesome.
I'll tell ya what.... when someone offers you tens of millions of dollars for some sort of business you built... and you turn it down so you don't "sell out", then come back and preach about it. Until then, I think those people look like total jackazzes.
Will the beer ultimately suffer? Probably. The track record isn't too good with these buy-outs... but that's a different topic.
"Sell outs!" LOL! That's awesome.
OP
OP
Harry482
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
Harry482
Well-Known Member
The concern I think is that shelf space and tap handles are going to be in such short supply and who is going to be able to command that space? The companies that can provide the best deals... hmm... who might that be. It's also confusing to customers who might want to support their local businesses.
What I'd like to see is some industry group offer a 'Certified Craft' designation/logo that independent breweries can apply, and be approved, for which would guarantee a certain quality level as well as a level of independence. Breweries with the designation could use the logo on their packaging etc. which might help consumers make more informed choices.
OP
OP
Harry482
Well-Known Member
Exactly... big breweries like Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, New Belgium etc. wouldn't need it, but it would be cool to have a seal like this that would represent top quality, independent brands.
It seems a lot of people here don't understand what AB/InBev has done. They are not good for the craft beer business at all.
I don't begrudge anyone for selling their company or have a distaste for big business, though I do prefer to support local and the little guys. It's the business practices I have a problem with.
I don't begrudge anyone for selling their company or have a distaste for big business, though I do prefer to support local and the little guys. It's the business practices I have a problem with.
I agree with this. I just don't agree with folks who somehow "blame" or talk down about the person that sold their business. Good for them - they worked hard and can have a more relaxing and enjoyable life because of it. I don't think they are obligated to slave away their entire life so that some people can be happy about where they buy their beer from.
As for the buyer - AB. I agree completely - I don't like a lot of their practices either and would likely not support the newer endeavor. Or, at least not to level of a truly independent, small, local business. I would generally always go out of my way to support truly local/craft beer.
I can see being bummed to see a local brewery go under AB, and I can see not supporting AB and any of their purchased breweries. But, to the original owners who made good on their investment. Good for them.
Topic for another thread, and a debate that could go on a bit, but I would love for someone to explain what they mean by a "quality beer" some day
I was just in contact with them on Facebook a month or two ago to get some tips on using passion fruit in a beer. The brewer seemed like a nice guy. I didn't end up taking much of his advice because it wasn't very practical for my situation, but I appreciated that he took the time to offer it, not every pro brewer is willing to help out a lowly homebrewer halfway around the world.
I'll quickly explain my thoughts and if need be start another thread, but I'm talking about objective measures of quality - shelf stability, consistency of product (where that is actually a goal), brewing practices etc. Subjective measures like awards, "boutique"-ness etc. are ignored.
brick_haus
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 1,055
- Reaction score
- 300
Seriously, "Actually probably" ??
Do you know something? If so please give us the details and references. For how long were they actually probably retained?
You don't think you could ever run into a wall of money and political power once you got big enough to be noticed? Open your eyes. It's not just beer. It happens in every industry.
brick_haus
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2012
- Messages
- 1,055
- Reaction score
- 300
I disagree with a few of your other opinions also, but more regulation is not the answer. And if you were to add regulations, rather than make the craft brewer pay to obtain "craft" certification why not have non craft brewers place a "non craft".disclosure on their label. Absurd either way...
bajaedition
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
- Messages
- 1,187
- Reaction score
- 306
I think the entire reason so many craft breweries are selling out is because of the slowdown in growth of the market.
You can not bemoan a person for making a killing on his business. He did not start it to remain a working stiff tied to a job.
And it is pure flattery that IN Bev would want to gobble up your brewery, it means you are a success.
BUT IT SURE SUCKS DONKEY DICKS
You can not bemoan a person for making a killing on his business. He did not start it to remain a working stiff tied to a job.
And it is pure flattery that IN Bev would want to gobble up your brewery, it means you are a success.
BUT IT SURE SUCKS DONKEY DICKS
I don't know what you're referring to by my other 'opinions', but I don't see what bearing that has on this at all... that's like saying I don't like your avatar so your homebrew must suck... but I digress...
For a start, I never said a single word about regulations and nor would I want them. I'm talking about an Industry group like the Brewers Association that already represents craft breweries (and already defines what it means to be called craft) providing a way for its own members to distinguish themselves from the 'faux craft' (for the lack of a better term). These types of things are done by all sorts of industries, and I really don't understand the hostile reaction you have to something like this.
bajaedition
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
- Messages
- 1,187
- Reaction score
- 306
IF we were to identify the Faux Craft brewers, would it include the true craft brewers who have their beer contract brewed by BMC because they do not have the facilities to brew for their total market?
That would be up to the industry group like the BA... geez... why all the hostility to something as simple as a 'seal of quality'. It works so well for the Trappists, for Champagne makers, Cheddar makers etc. etc.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Or a happy one for me, hope I can get it here finally. I assume you want to share your favorite beers with the rest of us. I mean my favorite local breweries avery, Oskar blues, and new belgian have been enjoyed around the country. I am not pissed at the idea of having a steady stream of pernicious ipa.
Are you even a brewery if you have your beer contract brewed? I'd argue that you're more of a "beer company" at that point. One could certainly debate the point, but my gut opinion is that if you're not brewing the beer, you're not a craft brewer.
Unfortunately, I doubt a "craft beer seal" would do much good. It would probably be like CAMRA in the UK, where beer nerds who already know which beers are or aren't "Real Ale" congratulate themselves for buying certified Real Ale while the much larger group of of casual drinkers who could swing the market doesn't take much notice, in part because they're mostly gravitating to cheap adjunct lagers anyway.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Hold up, goose ipa is now being brewed in my home town fort collins by some assumingly pretty bad azz brewers at ab, using our mountain water. I am thrilled by this and at buying it for 12 a 12. 55 for 55, cheap as any keg I ever get.
applescrap
Be the ball!
I am sure there are some good reasons to not like these beer deals, like they are taking over some restaurants taps. But this isnt always a bad thing. Infact a step up in some cases. Bringing craft beer to masses might help everyone in the long run. Maybe the head brewer will finally get paid a little better. Maybe all the volunteers that i have heard breweries are notirious for, will get paid. Maybe it will open up jobs for all the people here who dream of brewing for a living and maybe i can buy pernicious for a dollar a beer. I dont know if I have a reason to stand in line, arm and arm, with you for this cause. But I am also easily swayed. My choice only being goose ipa at chillis for 3 a beer at happy hour isnt one of them, because its a step up from before.
Big corporations get bigger and hold more power and influence. Smaller businesses struggle to compete. You get dollar-a-bottle Goose Island IPA in Colorado and Something-or-Other Craft Brewery down the street goes under because they can't afford to sell their similar IPA for less than $1.50. Instead of opening up more tap handles for local craft beer as the market changes, Chili's is placated by AB's "High End" into offering the same Goose Island IPA in every location across the country so customers know what's on tap wherever they go, while local breweries who used to get an occasional tap at their local Chili's are now out of the rotation because there no longer is a rotation.
In short, you might get cheaper craft-quality beer through deals like this, but it hurts competition for small businesses like actual craft breweries. Let's not even talk about the dreaded drop-off in quality after acquisition (hotly debated, but real in my opinion, based primarily on Ballast Point beers pre- and post-acquisition).
applescrap
Be the ball!
Imo much of this has not been the case. As madscientist pointed out small craft breweries arent closing, they are popping up everywhere. Plenty of restaurants round here serve local beers and we have popping tap houses everywhere. Goose is a massive step up from bud or bud light at chillis and 1 dollar goose island isnt putting heady topper out of business. Even the crappy breweries are filled on fridays with people enjoying 6 dollar pints. If some of these worser breweries close down because their beer sucks, so it goes. People who order goose at chillis are serving our cause better than when they ordered bud light before. What good did that do anyone? Gotta eat green chilli before habanero, no. I could buy the quality argument, i mean hey mass production, but i offer in return that goose island being brewed in my hometown by skilled brewers and our mountain water didnt destroy that average beer and two i dont care if it goes down a little in quality, as a. I cant get it now anyways and b. I dont know, depending on the beer, what it tasted like in the first place. In conclusion, i am not sure i like all this big business as much as anyone but honestly it this stuff doesnt bother me much obviously. I find most these big business beers average and buy other stuff anyways.
Woof, formatting...
The health of the craft beer industry doesn't mean that massive corporations muscling in on their game doesn't hurt them. That's false equivocation. Beer Wars is a good documentary that gives some insight into some of the ways that macros hurt micros.
I recognize the "good for them" argument for brewers selling out to macros and I've made it myself before, but putting MORE money and power into the hands of giant corporations isn't helping anybody.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2008
- Messages
- 64,951
- Reaction score
- 16,516
What's the cut off between big beer and small beer? Big money and small money?
Because the more AB-Inbev (and other mega brewers) are able to control the market (through deals with distributors, advertising, shelf space, tap handles etc), the harder it becomes for new breweries to get a foothold, and i want it to be easy for the next great brewery to get started, not harder.
I know! It's not like there's more breweries now than ever before. Wait, what?
If InBev is destroying the "craft" (however you chose to define it) beer industry, they're failing miserably....
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
Assuming (dangerous), that the fact that you quoted me means this is meant as a response to me, I never said InBev was destroying anything. In fact, I didn't say any of the things you appear to be refuting with your response. If you wish to actually have a discussion about, you know, the things I said, cool. If you're just gonna straw man this thing, then I'll pass.
and if it was just a thing you wanted to say and happened to quote me, then rock on.ircbrewing
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2017
- Messages
- 65
- Reaction score
- 20
Ah....I see now. They were not acquired per se. They just took capital from AB to allow them to expand. Nothing wrong with that. Sounds like AB is going to be a silent partner and allow the original owners/staff of WW to continue the day to day.
Not really an acquisition.
Not really an acquisition.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Why a concern about shelf space? Is anyone concerned about shelf space for loaves of bread or cans of tomatoes? If a retail outlet doesn't have good selection, the customers will go to the retailers that do offer choices.
The real enemy of beer consumers is a corrupt political system that limits entry to the marketplace for retail alcohol sales. Its not ABInBev's problem that the voters don't make "informed choices".
How much "outrage" is expressed that in many states, new restaurants can't sell alcohol, and opening a new bar or liquor store is out of the question because politicians limit liquor licences?
A bar owner can serve whatever they like and what the customers ask for. Will ABInBev someday lower prices and try to drive competition out of the market?
Maybe, but that's completely legal and a legitimate business practice.
Prices at the retail and bar level are too high anyway, we need some price competition. I actually don't see that happening anytime soon.
I've never had Wicked Weed Beer, but I'm hoping their practice of having 25 beers on tap, continuously rotating is adopted by others.
Though this may not have been an outright sale of the company, but AB/InBev is known to shut down the brewery to move it elsewhere and lay off the crew. Then they dabble with the recipe to make it cheaper despite how it effects the taste or how those who loved it feel about it.
And then there are the nefarious and underhanded things they've done to hold back the little guys, and deceitfulness to sell to those who refuse big brewery beers. There's nothing admirable about them.
Shelf space for bread and tomatoes isn't really a fair comparison is it? It's not like there are hundreds of local tomato producers clamorous for 40 square feet of a grocery store. Getting shelf space and tap handles is ALREADY a problem in some areas and if you can't compete at retail, you're fighting with one hand behind your back.
I would agree that our patchwork quilt of archaic laws don't help matters and the 'big boys' are in a much better position to bend or otherwise take advantage of those laws. However, I wasn't suggesting it was AB InBev's problem that consumers don't make informed choices... I was merely suggesting a small way in which craft brewers could distinguish themselves from brands owned or controlled by the big guys. At end of the day folks should drink whatever they want to.
Ah, but they've only begun. Just look at what they did prior to muscle out the little guys. It worked to some degree, but not enough for their greedy appetite. Those just getting started didn't get anywhere. They stayed local and very small. It was only the larger ones not effected quite so. So now they are buying up the larger of those breweries.
Beer Wars, as mentioned, and another that escapes me shows quite a bit.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Even though I would agree monopolies are bad in just the general Spirit of things. Please explain how any of these buyouts have hurt you personally?
Watch Beer Wars and you'll understand what they have done to the craft beer industry. Without behind the scenes knowledge how could one possibly know how the craft beer scene has been effected?
Similar threads
