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A mother’s worry about alcohol in baked goods?
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TheBluePhantom
Brewing for sport
Alcohol is a lot of places, handy for keeping oils flowing. Like medicines and foodstuffs. Take extract flavorings, I have a regular bottle of vanilla extract that says it is 35% alcohol, that is 70 proof. I probably should not have posted that though, now the booze hounds are raiding the spice cupboard...
Seriously, to get one ounce of alcohol at 1%, you would have to eat 100 ounces. That is 6 1/4 pounds. If you are feeding a toddler that much, he can probably handle the alcohol... Or you can make it thin crust and put more veggies on top.
Seriously, to get one ounce of alcohol at 1%, you would have to eat 100 ounces. That is 6 1/4 pounds. If you are feeding a toddler that much, he can probably handle the alcohol... Or you can make it thin crust and put more veggies on top.
new name for biochemists ( Beer Lovers )Oh come on guys. Give me some credit. I thought I was dealing with biochemists here!
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
If it collapses after reaching a higher volume there probably is too long a fermentation, or too little gluten mash.
I make bread with a bread machine, and I had to spend some time before reaching a good product. I use 100% wholemeal flour and no salt (and no sugar).
I got finally a simple and working recipe:
1 kg wholemeal flour;
3 or 4 level spoons of gluten;
same quantity of DME;
I add a spoon or so of extra virgin olive oil;
I use the "fast cycle" of the machine. It works very well.
Alcohol is a known food. Your adult body processes it without any trouble nor harm and it gives you calories.
This idea that alcohol is poison is a wrong idea that only happens to exist in certain countries (actually probably one) and it just doesn't exist in science and doesn't exist in most places of the world. Small children must consume much less of it but it's food for them as well. After you have the right enzymes, you are fine. That doesn't mean that alcohol is a "poison" for a 16 years old guy or for an adult.
Alcohol is food, wine is food, beer is food. Yes very small children should consume it in moderation. They consume it with their bread, their fresh fruit. Kefir contains alcohol as well. Sandwich bread is often treated with alcohol.
It's the dose that makes the poison. Beyond a certain dose, water is a poison too, or cheese or mayonnaise.
If people go on spreading ideas such as alcohol being a poison, then we end up with mothers who worry because they read on Google that bread contains alcohol. Well, fresh fruit contains probably more and it is eaten raw, by very small babies as well.
As a side note, there is a theory (still waiting for a scientifical verification, but based on a clear historical correlation) that the explosion of autism is due to the explosion in the use of saniters: modern mothers obsess with microbs and feed their children sanitizers through the baby bottles, the clothes which are "disinfected", the floor which is "disinfected" etc.
That's another case of modern obsession that should cease now.
We should begin teaching mothers to obsess less with alcohol and to obsess less with bacteria. Actually we should teach them to obsess less period
I knew a German family who forbid their child (13 years old or so) to drink Coke because it contains coffeine.
Cholesterol is good for your, alcohol is good for you, bacteria are mostly good for you. Relax. Have a homebrew.
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Totally agree. Eliminating added sugar and added salt from our diet would boost the general health in society much more than all the obsessions that are spread around.
That doesn't mean that sugar in itself is bad (sugar which is contained in food, is food) or that salt is bad (salt which is contained in food, is food). But the habit of adding sugar and salt to everything (often both sugar and salt!, as in certain breads or certain sauces) is causing unnecessary stress to your body.
So yes: don't feed sugar to your child. Give him fruit, fruit juices (with no sugar added), proper bread (which in my book is wholemeal bread with little additives). Unhealthy food is everywhere and the tiny alcohol content of food is absolutely not a problem.
Alcohol is also used as a preservative for bread (you can read it among the ingredients in typical bread which is used for toasts and sandwhiches) but, again, that's not the problem. The problem is the white flour which is deprived of most of the micronutrients. I would "worry" about that.
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To be read: three or four level spoons of DME (not 1 kg!).
Yeast like DME and it also gives a nice flavour touch to wholemeal bread.
EDIT: I see what you mean: isn't DME sugar? No, it isn't. DME contains various sugars, simple and complex, as we know. It's not 100% sucrose. Sucrose doesn't contain all the dextrines, the salts, the enzymes, the fat, the proteins etc. which are in DME.
White flour, white sugar, white rice are deprived of micronutrients (oligominerals, vitamins, enzymes) which our body requires not less than organic macronutrients (fat, sugars of all sorts, proteins).
Sucrose is generally speaking bad to add to food but DME is not sugar. Yet, for people who don't have DME on hand, adding a little sugar to the bread might improve the fermentation and make sense.
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An interesting reading about alcohol being food for humans:
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170222-our-ancestors-were-drinking-alcohol-before-they-were-human
The article quoted by the OP also says:
" For ethanol, no tolerable daily intake value has been derived so far. The reasons for this are manifold including (i) ethanol is a natural constituent of the human diet, even if no alcoholic beverages are consumed, (ii) ethanol occurs in very minor amounts in human blood, even if controlled studies guarantee that no alcoholic beverages have been consumed and (iii) there is good evidence that the regular consumption of small amounts of ethanol may be beneficial, at least in healthy adults, for health and life expectancy (7). "
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170222-our-ancestors-were-drinking-alcohol-before-they-were-human
The article quoted by the OP also says:
" For ethanol, no tolerable daily intake value has been derived so far. The reasons for this are manifold including (i) ethanol is a natural constituent of the human diet, even if no alcoholic beverages are consumed, (ii) ethanol occurs in very minor amounts in human blood, even if controlled studies guarantee that no alcoholic beverages have been consumed and (iii) there is good evidence that the regular consumption of small amounts of ethanol may be beneficial, at least in healthy adults, for health and life expectancy (7). "
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Woken up to find this thread has kicked on a bit.
I'm keen on a simple recipe but leaving out the yeast when making bread is pushing it. Yours looks a novel approach , is the virgin olive oil to help let the lump of " lead " drop out of the breadmaker?
Regarding the fresh juice quote doesn't really matter if it has no added sugar, it still has sugar and a low pH so causes teeth erosion as well as providing sugar for bacteria to cause decay. Deciduous teeth ( childrens first ) are even softer enamel than adults so limit sugar, acid insults to mealtimes only. No sugarfree, no milk between meals, no drink except water for night time and use a fluoride toothpaste sparingly no bigger than a pea.
I'm keen on a simple recipe but leaving out the yeast when making bread is pushing it. Yours looks a novel approach , is the virgin olive oil to help let the lump of " lead " drop out of the breadmaker?
Regarding the fresh juice quote doesn't really matter if it has no added sugar, it still has sugar and a low pH so causes teeth erosion as well as providing sugar for bacteria to cause decay. Deciduous teeth ( childrens first ) are even softer enamel than adults so limit sugar, acid insults to mealtimes only. No sugarfree, no milk between meals, no drink except water for night time and use a fluoride toothpaste sparingly no bigger than a pea.
BigDave1303
Well-Known Member
OMG, I drove my car the other day after eating a sandwich. Good job I didn't get pulled over.
That reminds me. Does anyone remember the headlines a few years ago about poppy seeds on bread. People concerned about failing a drugs test. Here's an example-
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-poppy-seeds-make-you-fail-a-drug-test
That reminds me. Does anyone remember the headlines a few years ago about poppy seeds on bread. People concerned about failing a drugs test. Here's an example-
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-poppy-seeds-make-you-fail-a-drug-test
A child would have to eat eight rolls or bread servings to equal one “standard drink“. If a parent is letting their child binge on that much bread, there are much bigger health issues than the alcohol, in my opinion.
That true I saw it on the mythbusters. LOL
This is the post I was trying to relate to when I said it is true I saw it on the Mythbusters. Love that show.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I don't need a scientific study to prove that alcohol can ruin people. I'm calling it poison because it kills people. I've seen it with my own eyes. Spoiled relationships, health problems, criminal activity, a downward spiral, I've seen all those things. Having seen all that helps me moderate my intake. I drink moderate amounts of cider, beer and wine on a regular basis and enjoy life and hope to do so for a long time.
Truth.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Thanks Pappers 
bracconiere
Jolly Alcoholic - In Remembrance 2023
Oh come on guys. Give me some credit. I thought I was dealing with biochemists here!
LOL, as far as i know a lot of people here do yeast slants and stuff.....
Yes I do use yeast! And water!
You can make bread without using yeast, because air contains yeast and it is entirely possible to make bread with spontaneous fermentation, but I do prefer using yeast, the result is faster and more certain (I use spontaneous fermentation when I make roti). At the moment I am using brewer's yeast (or baker's yeast which is the same) but I also used in the past "natural yeast" which is dry yeast with a more complex set of strains and species, which should imitate the variety of yeast strains you have when you use spontaneous fermentation.
Regarding sugar, it depends on what is your take on it. I don't consider sugar that bad when mixed with food. Sugar is bad (for teeth and for your spleen) when it is so concentrated that you feel the "sweet": be it in milk with added sugar or in fruit juice with added sugar or in candies or adding sugar to your coffee or tea. I don't add sugar in all those stuff.
I do add DME in bread because it helps it come better. Bread is not "sweet" if you add a couple teaspoons to a kg flour. My teeth don't object to it, and my spleen doesn't object either. Your teeth and your spleen may vary.
The oil is to make the bread a bit softer (wholemeal bread can come out of the machine as a brick) it probably helps with the entire process, it possibly helps with yeast reproduction. Normal "granmother recipes" for homebread bread contain typically olive oil so I put it in. I think in France or Germany they would add some butter or some margarine. Basically, some fat helps although I don't know exactly why.
My bread improved a lot after the three additions: gluten, DME, olive oil. I never studied the effect of each single ingredient separately. I had serious problems with my wholemeal bread made with the machine until I added these three ingredients.
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But then, you can call "food" itself "poison" because that can ruin people. I have seen with my eyes people dying because of the (too much) food they eat. Spoiled relationship, health problems, work problems, a downward spiral.
That's due to people drinking too much alcohol, or eating too much. Not due to people drinking alcohol or eating.
I believe that you drink moderate amounts of cider, beer and wine and I bet that they do improve your health!
Never forget: teetotallers live less!
As a side note, in many societies food can be taught as a "consolation" and this can ruin the natural relationship between food and person.
In a restricted number of societies (mostly Protestant) alcohol is totally forbidden to young persons before age of majority. This again spoils the relation between alcohol and person. Alcohol is thus mentally constructed as a sin and as a pleasure, rather than as food. A dangerous temptation for the adult only. This is what creates the perverted relationship with alcohol which can be seen in Britain, US, and probably to some extent Germany, Netherlands, and which is not seen in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece. Because in the Mediterranean countries people give alcoholic beverages to children since childhood (in very moderate quantities, that is). And also, possibly, because wine is consumed with food. The mental link is wine = food not wine = refuge from the problems of life, or being drunk = being a grown up adult man, or being drunk = enjoying your life.
I spent one academic year in Britain. On Saturday mornings the stink of vomit coming from the toilets would be apparent as soon as I opened the door of my "niche". The bathrooms were probably 20 steps away, behind two sets of doors. Vomiting appears to be a national sport. You get out in the street on saturday morning and you can see two or three vomits in a 20 minutes walk.
I remember meeting a young first-year student at the Student Union early in the evening who told me with evident pride: "I have already vomited three times!".
Not just I never got drunk in my life, but I also never saw any of my friends drunk, if we except a couple, one of which was half-Swede and the other his close friend of glass. Getting drunk is not something young people do with the extent, the frequency, the system that young British (or Dutch etc.) do. I attribute this difference to a totally different cultural approach toward alcohol. Protestant countries (or: Protestant mentality countries, if you don't consider Britain a Protestant country) demonize it, and make the problem many times worse.
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A well thought out reply. Food for thought if you will. I really appreciate it. I’m a new mother so yes, there is an abundance of information online, and quite frankly, most of it is scary and most likely agenda based anyways. But when someone who is new to all this parenting business sees things that seem to be meant to scare people, it doesn’t help. Just being honest. I’m a very down to earth and humble person. I’m not afraid to admit when I’m wrong or when I’m concerned, even if someone laughs. Lol
TheBluePhantom
Brewing for sport
Sounds like the takeaway even from this group is moderation. Don't hand a 4 year old a beer, but don't sweat trace alcohols in a pizza. If you are doing homemade crust, you are doing it right. Try a nice slice of homemade buttered bread with a bowl of homemade vegetable soup, one of my favorite memories. (I have to try again soon...) Lead by example, too strict and the kid rebels, too wild and the kid doesn't learn how to moderate. My favorite was accidental, I made a batch of rootbeer for the kids, my son was helping. When he measured out the sugar for 5 gallons (5 pounds) he looked at it and asked if there was really that much sugar in all soft drinks. After that he didn't drink as much.
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