20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient

[TANSTAAFB]

I kept reading about spiting and spluttering super heated sugar as folks added the water so a was scared to use a small pot. Used my 3 gallon stainless kettle...what a PITA!!! I ended up having to put a 4-sided cheese grater in the pot to hang my thermometer off of just to get readings

Make sure it is big enough to hold your volume but small enough to hang your thermometer off of!!!

 

[Yalpe]

Can anyone be more specific on how they find DAP? I can't find this anywhere.

 

[Hermit]

Can anyone be more specific on how they find DAP? I can't find this anywhere.

It is available at local home brew stores if that is what you are asking. If you can't get it locally I'd ask them to get it in before doing mail order where shipping will be more than the product.

http://www.beer-brewing-wine-making.com/store/product.php?productid=17956

 

[Crustovsky]

Actually I'm curious to know if anyone has ever used this stuff in place of pure DAP: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=15

My understanding is that this stuff is essentially DAP + other stuff so I'm assuming it would work although more would be required. If anyone has any experience with it and can let me know what their experience was like I'd be pleased to hear about it.

 

[mezzoblue]

You can order DAP online from numerous places, which is the route I went. I later discovered my LHBS actually did carry it, labelled as "yeast energizer" and nothing else. So even if you don't see it on shelves, you should ask for it by name.

 

[Crustovsky]

Eh, the issue is that most of the stores around here have phased out pure DAP in favour of the wyeast nutrient I linked to above. The two stores I usually go to for supplies both had staff who were fully aware of what it was, so I trust that they don't have it somewhere just labelled as a yeast energizer or nutrient. Finally got my hands on some today (100g worth, whoohoo) at the only group of stores who still stock the stuff in the city (the other damn side of the city sadly) though, so hooray.

Armed with 100g of DAP, 4kg of sugar, and some Belgian Ardennes yeast (wyeast strain 3522) it's time to brew various delicious beers.

 

[Centexbear]

you can buy it online too. i know austin homebrew carries it.

 

[Yalpe]

I tried sugar #4 @ 290F last night. I finally found DAP at a local brew shop. Ordering online from the US for small items is not worth it in Canada. Anyways.

The sugar came out fine (I think). The taste is good as in its not bitter. The texture reminds me of maple syrup (is that how its supposed to be?). One thing I don't understand though is that the color looks a lot more like the light amber sugar instead of dark amber (looks like an APA). Why is that? Did I pour the water too fast? I clearly hit 290F on the thermometer (candy). I'll try again @ 295 and see how that goes.

I re-read the thread and a lot of you seemed to not bring the solution back to 240F, which is what I did. This morning it was not crystalized. I hope it will stay like this.

 

[Crustovsky]

Keep in mind altitude will affect what temperatures you need to hit to the tune of about 1C/2F per 300m/1000 feet (decreasing the higher you are, increasing the lower you are). Don't know what Snick's altitude was for the adjustment from his temperatures but given that Montreal's highest elevation is only 233m while it's lowest is 6m I'd say it's safe to say you might want to add a few more degrees to your target temperature. Perhaps try again with a target temperature of 300F and see what you get out of it.

There's also the issue of the PH having effect on just how much the sugar is going to darken; I'd imagine differences in water might result in a more acidic solution and thus the mixture not getting as dark. I wouldn't worry about that until you've done more experimenting with temperatures first though.

 

[elucify]

I made this sugar a while ago, and then used it to make a dubbel that came out very well.

When I made it, I cycled between 240 and 290 four or five times. Each time it got darker, until by the last time it was the color of cola. I'm guessing each time you cycle it, you produce more melanoidins. I can't remember whether I added more DAP in the middle or not. The ammonia smell was gone by the last couple of cycles.

 

[bknifefight]

Has anyone made this just to eat? I did some for a beer (which turned out great) and decided to make more for ice cream and stuff. The first time I did Sugar 4 290* but this time I did Sugar 5 290*. It is good but is a little gritty. Has anyone else had this?

 

[Yalpe]

Keep in mind altitude will affect what temperatures you need to hit to the tune of about 1C/2F per 300m/1000 feet (decreasing the higher you are, increasing the lower you are). Don't know what Snick's altitude was for the adjustment from his temperatures but given that Montreal's highest elevation is only 233m while it's lowest is 6m I'd say it's safe to say you might want to add a few more degrees to your target temperature. Perhaps try again with a target temperature of 300F and see what you get out of it.

There's also the issue of the PH having effect on just how much the sugar is going to darken; I'd imagine differences in water might result in a more acidic solution and thus the mixture not getting as dark. I wouldn't worry about that until you've done more experimenting with temperatures first though.

Good point. I will try again maybe @ 295F and see how that goes. Id on't want to burn it because its for a dubbel and I don't want it to be too dark.

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

Just made the 290. Holy cow! I didn't know I could make something so delicious!!!

Thanks so much for this!

 

[smizak]

I've been using 2 lbs of the deep amber in my Apfelweins. Leaves a nice residual sweetness while still fermenting down to sub-1.000. Fermentation have been taking off compared to using just corn sugar, must be the added nutrients.

 

[Beernewb]

worked pretty well, my only issues:

took what seemed forever to get the temp back up to 240 after I added the water to break the boil at 290...

then when i hit 240, i cooler the pot and then poured into a heated mason jar...what was left in the pan was a chewy gooey consistency, perfect, but in the mason jar everything crystalized. i kept stirring to try and cool it quicker, but now it is grainy and has the consistency of apple butter

can i still use it??

 

[Nateo]

worked pretty well, my only issues:

took what seemed forever to get the temp back up to 240 after I added the water to break the boil at 290...

then when i hit 240, i cooler the pot and then poured into a heated mason jar...what was left in the pan was a chewy gooey consistency, perfect, but in the mason jar everything crystalized. i kept stirring to try and cool it quicker, but now it is grainy and has the consistency of apple butter

can i still use it??

Just warm it up again to liquefy it. I usually use a little bit of hot wort during my boil to mix with and dissolve the syrup.

 

[BeerLogic]

Just made some of the 290 stuff. Lesson learned - do not sniff the sugar until it is done caramelizing unless you want a nose full of ammonia. Gross.

 

[mezzoblue]

Just made some of the 290 stuff. Lesson learned - do not sniff the sugar until it is done caramelizing unless you want a nose full of ammonia. Gross.

Interesting. Of the 4 or 5 test batches I made, not once did I smell ammonia. From reading the rest of the thread your experience is more typical, I'm not sure what I'm missing out on... but I'm not complaining!

 

[bknifefight]

I always get a little ammonia. I told my wife that we would pour it over ice cream and she gave me very skeptical looks. It turns out great every time though.

 

[BeerLogic]

I always get a little ammonia. I told my wife that we would pour it over ice cream and she gave me very skeptical looks. It turns out great every time though.

Ammonia boils at -28F. There is no way any significant quantity of it will remain dissolved in boiling sugar at 290F, so there is nothing to worry about. (Except that it smells nasty. There certainly isn't enough produced to be dangerous.)

 

[Zlosk]

Hi. I'm new to this board, and I attempted to make (and finally did make) the #4 Deep Amber today. I read through all 20 pages of this discussion and it looked like while some people had some of the same issues as I did, I didn't see a fix for those issues that used the resources that were available to me.

When making the #4 Deep Amber, I used L.D. Carlson Company yeast nutrient (contains food grade urea and di-ammonium phosphate) instead of pure DAP, as that's what my local homebrew shop had in stock. After running through the process and then cooling it, I ended up with a crystallized slurry of a color that was in between the 260 F and 270 F color samples per post 36 of this discussion. It didn't really have much flavor, and certainly wasn't what I expected.

I decided that maybe my thermometer was off, and reheating to a higher temperature might allow me to hit my color target. I also decided that inverting the sugar might help with the crystallization. I added 1/4 tsp of acid blend (a blend of citric and malic acids sold at my local homebrew shop; I don't know the ratio) and started the reheat. This time around, the color at 290 F was spot on, so I figured that maybe my thermometer wasn't the issue after all. I added 1 cup of water (a little at a time), which brought the temperature to around 235 F, heated it back up to 240 F, and then cooled it. It stayed a syrup after cooling, and it tastes pretty great.

In the future, I plan to add some acid at the start to invert the sugar before the Maillard reactions start. Is there any reason why this would not be a good idea?

 

[Nateo]

After running through the process and then cooling it, I ended up with a crystallized slurry

In the future, I plan to add some acid at the start to invert the sugar before the Maillard reactions start. Is there any reason why this would not be a good idea?

I've found that diluting the syrup with more water at the end of the process, and reheating to just boiling will help keep the crystallization down.

I know a lot of people say you need to add acid to invert the sugar first, but I think that's unnecessary. Most (perhaps all) of the sugar will invert from heat alone. Adding acid will lower the pH, and as the syrup darkens, the pH will drop further. Maillard reactions increase at higher pH.

IIRC, when I added acid to invert the sugar first, then darkened it to the color I wanted, the pH of the final syrup was around 4. Increasing the pH to the 5-6 range made a better tasting syrup, IMO. I'm not sure the optimum pH yet, but that's something I plan on looking into.

So if you add acid to invert, you'll want to add a base to adjust the pH into the proper range pre-boil. I've used potassium bicarbonate, which worked pretty well, but pickling lime is what I plan on using in the future.

 

[EllisTX]

I attempted the 290 degree version last night. I hit all the temps in the directions but my syrup came out more like light amber. It tastes great but not the color I was going for. Other than maybe my thermometer being off, could bringing it up to the temp too fast not develop the right color?


Edit: I made another batch last night and left the burner between medium and med-low. Turned out right on with a lower temp.

 

[Chia]

ok, i have searched the net and do not know what DAP is. what is it and where can i purchase it? thanks, Chia

 

[Nateo]

ok, i have searched the net and do not know what DAP is. what is it and where can i purchase it? thanks, Chia

I just blew through 20 lbs of sugar and a jar of DAP yeast nutrient

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dap+yeast+nutrient

 

[rebrandsoftware]

It seems that the distributor of the commercial Dark Candi Syrup is having some trouble and I can't find it anywhere, so I stumbled across this thread and made my own!

I had a very interesting time with #5 yesterday:

First try: the thermometer only read 240 when the whole 2 lbs. of sugar turned into a giant brown cake with volcano-like holes blowing smoke and turned my pot into a disgusting mess which is still sitting in the sink filled with PBW in the hopes that SWMBO will forgive me one day.

Second try: I held the thermometer on its side so that it was submerged more. This time, reading the temperature correctly, it turned out perfectly. It's amazing how the smell changes over time, starting with ammonia and ending with one the best smells ever: cherry plum christmas rum molasses candy.

Anyway, I'm so incredibly pleased with this. I can't thank the OP enough! So much fun to make!

To the poster who said they were getting solids: check your thermometer. It is not accurate unless it is submerged about 2".

-Mike

 

[Zlosk]

I recently aimed to make a 10 lb batch in a 10 quart pot, scaling up the the Deep Amber (290F) recipe by 5. I started by mixing the 10 lb of sugar with 5 cups of water, to make sure that all of the sugar was wetted before firing up the stove. After the sugar syrup clarified, approximately at 225F, I added 1/4 cup + 1/2 tsp (2-1/2 tsp x 5) of yeast nutrient. I kept my gas stove on medium; though the syrup never really got hotter than 235F, it did develop a beautiful dark amber over the course of about an hour. Since I was still at the soft ball stage, I did not add the final water addition. I ended up with 12.4 lb of deep amber syrup, which fit into about 3-2/3 of 3.3 lb liquid malt extract containers.

I can report that large batches work, although not quite the same as a small batch. Also, it seemed to take longer to pass through the various colors, so I believe that it's easier to hit a target color.

I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do with all of this syrup, but I'm sure I'll find something to do with it.

 

[Shift]

I made a 4 lb batch today, two lessons learned:

1) It stayed at 230 for a while(15 mins or so), so I got tired and cranked my stove up from 5/9 to ~8/9. The temperature, very, slowly started climbing upwards but once it hit somewhere around 245-260 or so it rushed up. I don't really have any accurate numbers since it was so stable at 240ish I left it at the stove to check the internets. Couple of minutes later when i checked on it, it was up at 293ish(what i was aiming for :rockin.

2) I didn't really care about if the end product crystalised or not, so I didn't add any water once I hit my temperature.
It was a pain in the A** to get it out of the pot and into my container, so i ended up boiling about half a quart to help steam down the residues on the pot walls and such. So even if you don't care about the final consistency I suggest you add some water just to get it out of the pot.

Now to see how much color it'll add once mixed into the wort, I'm aiming for something a wee bit darker than Leffe 9 I think.

 

[HItransplant]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread... love the DIY stuff.

I made the sugar #5 last night, hit all the temps, though i was a little short on hardball for the last step-- looked away for a moment and had a boil over-- too much of a mess to get it back on heat (temp got to just under 240). Finished product was really close to the D2 I have in my cupboard from my rye saison. It has an extra flavor; however, almost like roasted marshmallow. This flavor is slight, but im wondering if there are any thoughts on what might have caused this.

Im also wondering if there is a consensus on fermentibility of this product vs. store bought candi sugar.

 

[hungrymonkey]

I bumbled my way through making 2.5 lbs of the 290* syrup today. Came out well, although the color is not as dark as the pic.

Of note, I used a mesh skillet screen (we always used to for bacon splatter) and poured the 2nd water addition through it. It saved me from the splatter when the water hit the syrup.

Thanks OP.