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This past weekend I decided I am going to stop roasting. I am going to donate the roaster, espresso machine, grinder, etc and be done with it. After much discussion with my wife over too many shots of Honduras and Makers 46, we decided we're moving to southern Italy. I am going to tour southern Italy to find the best of the best espresso bar, and make them an offer they can't refuse. I will own the coffee shop, and thus never have to pay for an espresso ever again.

I'll likely be moving in the next 3 weeks; if I can get internet service set up there I will be sure to check in and keep you apprised of the progress. You are all welcome to visit, but you'll have to buy your own coffee. That stuff isn't free.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
This past weekend I decided I am going to stop roasting. I am going to donate the roaster, espresso machine, grinder, etc and be done with it. After much discussion with my wife over too many shots of Honduras and Makers 46, we decided we're moving to southern Italy. I am going to tour southern Italy to find the best of the best espresso bar, and make them an offer they can't refuse. I will own the coffee shop, and thus never have to pay for an espresso ever again.

I'll likely be moving in the next 3 weeks; if I can get internet service set up there I will be sure to check in and keep you apprised of the progress. You are all welcome to visit, but you'll have to buy your own coffee. That stuff isn't free.
Click to expand...
I'm accepting donations!
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
This past weekend I decided I am going to stop roasting. I am going to donate the roaster, espresso machine, grinder, etc and be done with it. After much discussion with my wife over too many shots of Honduras and Makers 46, we decided we're moving to southern Italy. I am going to tour southern Italy to find the best of the best espresso bar, and make them an offer they can't refuse. I will own the coffee shop, and thus never have to pay for an espresso ever again.

I'll likely be moving in the next 3 weeks; if I can get internet service set up there I will be sure to check in and keep you apprised of the progress. You are all welcome to visit, but you'll have to buy your own coffee. That stuff isn't free.
Click to expand...

#FakeNews!!! Haha
I can’t take this seriously. Post again at 12:01am and then I will reconsider taking you serious. [emoji6][emoji6]
You’ve gone down this rabbit hole so far that it isn’t unreasonable. Cheers bud!
 
Wow. I think I really need to start resting my coffee longer. A full week rest seems to dramatically change the entire cup on a recent Kenya roast, and all for the better. Sometimes Ethiopian natural process seems to have best aroma after 3-4 days, and fades fast after that, falling flat in about 5 days. What are others experience ? I think bean origin plays a role, and probably the roast profile does too, but I haven’t been able to figure it out yet.
 
All,
I changed my mind and will be staying in the States. Turns out I hate Italian coffee, can't stand southern Italy, and would like to continue making an income. You all are still welcome to visit me, though it will have to be on the north side of Chicago...not Italy.
 
TrickyDick said:
Wow. I think I really need to start resting my coffee longer. A full week rest seems to dramatically change the entire cup on a recent Kenya roast, and all for the better. Sometimes Ethiopian natural process seems to have best aroma after 3-4 days, and fades fast after that, falling flat in about 5 days. What are others experience ? I think bean origin plays a role, and probably the roast profile does too, but I haven’t been able to figure it out yet.
Click to expand...
I basically have a similar experience with my coffee as I do with my malty beers. The last cup/glass is always the best. That's because I procrastinate with the roasting and (as we discussed here a couple days ago) wind up starting to drink the coffee within 24 hours of roast. The longest rest any of my coffee ever gets is about a week.

The exception is small amount of decaf that i roast for my wife. I have the opposite problem there: it sits around forever.
HarborTownBrewing said:
All,
I changed my mind and will be staying in the States. Turns out I hate Italian coffee, can't stand southern Italy, and would like to continue making an income. You all are still welcome to visit me, though it will have to be on the north side of Chicago...not Italy.
Click to expand...
This is a kind of joke, and you really are moving, right? ;)
 
I really try hard to plan my coffee out so I don't end up short but I got behind last weekend. Had to roast some Tanzanian for a friend and I wasn't very happy with the roast so I decided I'd just drink it right away since I was out. Funny thing was, it was delicious even just a few hours after the roast. I'm used to waiting 2-3 days before I start to get much flavor but this one seemed to take on flavor quick.

Each bean is so different it's tough to have hard and fast rules. I'm amused by some of the people on the coffee roasting facebook pages because some people get such firm thoughts in their heads and they won't consider anything else (one-way valve discussions are always my favorite to read).

Edit:
And no, @TallDan I will not be donating my coffee stuff to you hahaha.
 
darn
*shreds the 501c application*

Bullet users: In your experience, what's the sweet spot and minimum for batch size? Can you go as low as a 114g batch?
 
TallDan said:
Bullet users: In your experience, what's the sweet spot and minimum for batch size? Can you go as low as a 114g batch?
Click to expand...

From the previous version of the roaster, they said the recommended minimum charge was 350g. However (and that's a big "however"), with the new sensor I have read you can get away with lower charges and the sensor will still be able to accurately determine bean temp.

The new sensor is a big game changer and a lot of people are still trying to figure out what it's limits are. There are about 10 "super users" that have had the roaster from pre-release and they also tend to get to sample new parts from Aillio before release. They also get to compare the roaster to others (one guy just did a side by side with 4 Huky owners and himself on the Bullet and the 5 of them all blindly chose the Bullet's coffee unanimously as the best). If you are on FB and even remotely considering a Bullet, there's a fantastic page you can request to join. It's well moderated and mostly on topic. You can search the page and find answers to just about any question you could think of asking.

I don't know if there's a firm answer on the new minimum charge they would recommend, but I will say it would probably take some finesse to roast a 114 g batch. I did a 225 g batch and it went well, though I had to slow things down compared to my normal 450 g batches.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
From the previous version of the roaster, they said the recommended minimum charge was 350g. However (and that's a big "however"), with the new sensor I have read you can get away with lower charges and the sensor will still be able to accurately determine bean temp.

The new sensor is a big game changer and a lot of people are still trying to figure out what it's limits are. There are about 10 "super users" that have had the roaster from pre-release and they also tend to get to sample new parts from Aillio before release. They also get to compare the roaster to others (one guy just did a side by side with 4 Huky owners and himself on the Bullet and the 5 of them all blindly chose the Bullet's coffee unanimously as the best). If you are on FB and even remotely considering a Bullet, there's a fantastic page you can request to join. It's well moderated and mostly on topic. You can search the page and find answers to just about any question you could think of asking.

I don't know if there's a firm answer on the new minimum charge they would recommend, but I will say it would probably take some finesse to roast a 114 g batch. I did a 225 g batch and it went well, though I had to slow things down compared to my normal 450 g batches.
Click to expand...
I'm not on FB. Honestly, the fact that the bullet community seems to be centered there goes solidly in the negative column for me. I don't see a lot of good conversation about the bullet outside of there, but a monoculture of people who roast on the bullet (while useful to current owners) isn't likely to provide the kind of balanced discussion I'm looking for right now anyway. I saw that there is an aillio forum as well, have you joined that? Is there much useful discussion/information there?

I am really considering the bullet though. It checks a lot of boxes for a roaster for me, and the super small batches aren't a deal breaker, just a consideration. It seems to me that any roaster is going to have a sweet spot and a range for batch size, I'm just trying to get an idea if the sweet spot and range of the bullet is a good match for me.

If I got an email notification from SM right now that they were in stock, I'd give myself 50% odds of ordering before they sell out. There's also another roaster for sale locally that is awfully tempting, if the seller decides that they're a little flexible on price, I could easily go in that direction instead, and even if they stay firm I may go for it. It's a rough life for my bank account these days...
 
TallDan said:
I'm not on FB. Honestly, the fact that the bullet community seems to be centered there goes solidly in the negative column for me. I don't see a lot of good conversation about the bullet outside of there, but a monoculture of people who roast on the bullet (while useful to current owners) isn't likely to provide the kind of balanced discussion I'm looking for right now anyway. I saw that there is an aillio forum as well, have you joined that? Is there much useful discussion/information there?

I am really considering the bullet though. It checks a lot of boxes for a roaster for me, and the super small batches aren't a deal breaker, just a consideration. It seems to me that any roaster is going to have a sweet spot and a range for batch size, I'm just trying to get an idea if the sweet spot and range of the bullet is a good match for me.

If I got an email notification from SM right now that they were in stock, I'd give myself 50% odds of ordering before they sell out. There's also another roaster for sale locally that is awfully tempting, if the seller decides that they're a little flexible on price, I could easily go in that direction instead, and even if they stay firm I may go for it. It's a rough life for my bank account these days...
Click to expand...
I think you'd have to see the conversation on Facebook to judge it appropriately. The majority of users are serious hobby roasters or small commercial roasters - all of whom have good input on the roaster, troubleshooting, optimizing, etc.

There's not a whole lot of discussion on other forums but something to keep in mind is, the roaster is still very young. I happened to get one in the second public offering on SM not quite a year ago, and mine is serial number 1,200 ish if I remember right. Point is, it's still a small scale company and not a ton of people that have them yet. In the last year they have greatly ramped up production but obviously they still can't keep up with the demand.

There are some forums but from what I've seen most discussion takes place on fb. There's a good website though called Coffee Navigated where the author has documented a TON of info on the Bullet, along with the input of the first adopters. You might want to check that out.

Personally I think the roaster is underpriced pretty significantly. Especially to get it through SM with no import taxes, no sales tax, 8lbs of greens, and $15 shipping. I like it because it's portable, efficient, safe, and roasts coffee as good as anything I've ever tasted at top shops like Intelli, Blue Bottle, etc etc. It's just different than a Mill City roaster, which is different than Sonofresco, which is different than a Diedrich, etc.

Hope that helps. You may be interested in creating a faux fb page just to view the Bullet group and discussion.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
All,
I changed my mind and will be staying in the States. Turns out I hate Italian coffee, can't stand southern Italy, and would like to continue making an income. You all are still welcome to visit me, though it will have to be on the north side of Chicago...not Italy.
Click to expand...
Well darn, you had a better chance of me visiting you in southern Italy.
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
Personally I think the roaster is underpriced pretty significantly. Especially to get it through SM with no import taxes, no sales tax, 8lbs of greens, and $15 shipping. I like it because it's portable, efficient, safe, and roasts coffee as good as anything I've ever tasted at top shops like Intelli, Blue Bottle, etc etc. It's just different than a Mill City roaster, which is different than Sonofresco, which is different than a Diedrich, etc.
Click to expand...

While I'm inclined to agree with you on this point, I'm not entirely convinced. I don't think you can directly compare the bullet to a Mill City, Sonofresco, or Diedrich. While home roasters may comparison shop those, home roasting is not the target market for them. They are sample roasters that behave similarly to their bigger brothers. In fact, I don't think any of those three (or SF, Probat or the others) really want any part of the home/hobbiest roasting market unless it's a gateway to starting a business and moving up to a bigger roaster. Just a quick look at their websites makes that pretty clear to me. The bullet doesn't have a production roasting big brother, so sampling in it with the intent to scale up to a production batch is not as useful to a pro.

So, that leaves you with competition from the quest m3, huky, hot top, etc. All of which are significantly less expensive than the bullet. The bullet easily has them beat on features, so that justifies the price jump. So far, Aillio has proven that there is enough room at the high end of home roaster market for them to play, and right now they can't keep up with demand, so resale value of a bullet is effectively the same as new due to limited supply. But what happens in a year when they meet demand and SM can easily keep them in stock? How many home roasters really want to pay $2500 for a roaster when they know they can get great results with a whirlypop or a popcorn popper? Could we see the price of used bullets take a dive once aillio can keep up with demand and hobbyists either lose interest or go pro and and no longer have a use for the bullet?

Like I said, I'm inclined to agree with you, and I think Aillio could increase their prices right now. However, they need to be careful, they don't know how big their market really is, and it would be easy to overestimate that, then boom and bust. If they do that, home roasters lose.
 
Yeah I think the key thing is, and it's discussed pretty regularly, the Bullet isn't really a hobby person's roaster. It's more used by small cafes and farmers markets. I wouldn't have gotten it if I didn't sell coffee on the side, and I think just about everyone else feels the same (unless they don't mind spending the money on a hobby).

Like I said, it's getting more and more buzz as a light commercial roaster and competing with the big names.

Actually. We live like 15 miles away from each other. You should come over and mess around with mine haha!
 
HarborTownBrewing said:
Yeah I think the key thing is, and it's discussed pretty regularly, the Bullet isn't really a hobby person's roaster. It's more used by small cafes and farmers markets. I wouldn't have gotten it if I didn't sell coffee on the side, and I think just about everyone else feels the same (unless they don't mind spending the money on a hobby).

Like I said, it's getting more and more buzz as a light commercial roaster and competing with the big names.

Actually. We live like 15 miles away from each other. You should come over and mess around with mine haha!
Click to expand...
I think it is a hobbyist roaster first and a small buisness roaster second. Compare aillio's website to sonofresco's. Aillio is definitely geeking out about roasting, and sonofresco talks right up front about expanding your buisness by adding a roaster to your cafe. The 1lb sonofresco is also priced similarly to the bullet, and what it lacks in batch size, it makes up for in daily/monthly volume. Sonofresco's website (and roasters) don't appeal to me as a hobbyist roaster, but if i were looking at this from a business perspective, they're speaking that language, lease options and everything. If I don't know much about roasting, but want to add it to my buisness, aillio doesn't look like much help to me. I'm sure the bullet is going to make it's way into a lot of small shops, but the selling points of the bullet (110v power, fine tuning of batches) really speak more to hobbyists.
 
TallDan said:
I'm not on FB. Honestly, the fact that the bullet community seems to be centered there goes solidly in the negative column for me. I don't see a lot of good conversation about the bullet outside of there, but a monoculture of people who roast on the bullet (while useful to current owners) isn't likely to provide the kind of balanced discussion I'm looking for right now anyway. I saw that there is an aillio forum as well, have you joined that? Is there much useful discussion/information there?

I am really considering the bullet though. It checks a lot of boxes for a roaster for me, and the super small batches aren't a deal breaker, just a consideration. It seems to me that any roaster is going to have a sweet spot and a range for batch size, I'm just trying to get an idea if the sweet spot and range of the bullet is a good match for me.

If I got an email notification from SM right now that they were in stock, I'd give myself 50% odds of ordering before they sell out. There's also another roaster for sale locally that is awfully tempting, if the seller decides that they're a little flexible on price, I could easily go in that direction instead, and even if they stay firm I may go for it. It's a rough life for my bank account these days...
Click to expand...

The bullet also has a user pseudo forum, called roast world if you want to explore that without using “Facebook” (I hear you about FB)
 
TallDan said:
While I'm inclined to agree with you on this point, I'm not entirely convinced. I don't think you can directly compare the bullet to a Mill City, Sonofresco, or Diedrich. While home roasters may comparison shop those, home roasting is not the target market for them. They are sample roasters that behave similarly to their bigger brothers. In fact, I don't think any of those three (or SF, Probat or the others) really want any part of the home/hobbiest roasting market unless it's a gateway to starting a business and moving up to a bigger roaster. Just a quick look at their websites makes that pretty clear to me. The bullet doesn't have a production roasting big brother, so sampling in it with the intent to scale up to a production batch is not as useful to a pro.

So, that leaves you with competition from the quest m3, huky, hot top, etc. All of which are significantly less expensive than the bullet. The bullet easily has them beat on features, so that justifies the price jump. So far, Aillio has proven that there is enough room at the high end of home roaster market for them to play, and right now they can't keep up with demand, so resale value of a bullet is effectively the same as new due to limited supply. But what happens in a year when they meet demand and SM can easily keep them in stock? How many home roasters really want to pay $2500 for a roaster when they know they can get great results with a whirlypop or a popcorn popper? Could we see the price of used bullets take a dive once aillio can keep up with demand and hobbyists either lose interest or go pro and and no longer have a use for the bullet?

Like I said, I'm inclined to agree with you, and I think Aillio could increase their prices right now. However, they need to be careful, they don't know how big their market really is, and it would be easy to overestimate that, then boom and bust. If they do that, home roasters lose.
Click to expand...

They have planned a larger roaster called the bullseye. I forget but could be 2-3 kg I want to say?
 
TrickyDick said:
They have planned a larger roaster called the bullseye. I forget but could be 2-3 kg I want to say?
Click to expand...
Hot Top has had a bigger roaster planned for years. Same with Behmor. I have more confidence in Aillio right now then the two of them, but the track record for home roaster makers scaling up their products is not good.

And the only reason why I brought that up is to put the price of Mill City, Probat and similar sample roasters into the perspective of their real target markets. I would actually prefer it if Aillio came out with a smaller roaster. Call it the BB and eat Hot Top's lunch. 1lb max batch size and $1800. I don't think I could resist a pre-order for that.
 
I like the sax player with gold teeth and the long haired hippy. I hope to score a commercial roaster some day on craigslist for a deal, dunno how realistic that is or of if I would even like it. If you can afford it you will probably like it.
 
TallDan said:
Hot Top has had a bigger roaster planned for years. Same with Behmor. I have more confidence in Aillio right now then the two of them, but the track record for home roaster makers scaling up their products is not good.

And the only reason why I brought that up is to put the price of Mill City, Probat and similar sample roasters into the perspective of their real target markets. I would actually prefer it if Aillio came out with a smaller roaster. Call it the BB and eat Hot Top's lunch. 1lb max batch size and $1800. I don't think I could resist a pre-order for that.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more! That would be impressive! I will say I was skeptical, but it CAN do 1kg. Probably not doing the best job at it, but its got the power. From what I've read they have a new induction power board coming out to retrofit the 1st gen boards that will improve the function even more. I have the 220V version because why not - more power. They've specifically neutered the 220V output so it roasts the same as the 120V. Someday I predict a hack or unlock to give true control to roaster to use unfettered power. I don't need a 1kg roaster, but a 1lb roaster or 1/2 kilo is perfect for home user. It seems I've been struggling because I been using subprime beans that are old and not well stored - can't wait to see how I do once I purge the stash and roast only fresh crop.

The LHBS owner recently installed a Mill City machine in his shop. very impressive. he selling more coffee than homebrew supplies I think. Its a nice looking machine. He previously ran two Behmor roasters, so its a huge upgrade for him. I've not tried any of his stuff yet.

TD
 
applescrap said:
I like the sax player with gold teeth and the long haired hippy. I hope to score a commercial roaster some day on craigslist for a deal, dunno how realistic that is or of if I would even like it. If you can afford it you will probably like it.
Click to expand...

A cursory CL search in my area turned up this beauty. Primo unit with a 25 lb. drum. Only 18K if you have a truck and you're up for a road trip. ;)
 
applescrap said:
I like the sax player with gold teeth and the long haired hippy. I hope to score a commercial roaster some day on craigslist for a deal, dunno how realistic that is or of if I would even like it. If you can afford it you will probably like it.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. Take a look at higher end espresso machines. Entry level commercial machines are priced similarly to high end home machines, but the feature sets are completely different. I initially assumed that commercial machines would just be better than home machines all around, but that's just not the case.

MaxStout said:
A cursory CL search in my area turned up this beauty. Primo unit with a 25 lb. drum. Only 18K if you have a truck and you're up for a road trip. ;)
Click to expand...
This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!
 
TallDan said:
I'm not sure. Take a look at higher end espresso machines. Entry level commercial machines are priced similarly to high end home machines, but the feature sets are completely different. I initially assumed that commercial machines would just be better than home machines all around, but that's just not the case.


This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!
Click to expand...

I noticed the seller has a step-up transformer to run it on 120V. Don't know the amperage at 240 but it's got to be a lot. Double that for 120, bet it will trip some breakers. o_O

Had to look up Mill City. Noticed that it's local for me, and they sell a few green coffees in 10lb lots. Might have to check that out further.
 
MaxStout said:
I noticed the seller has a step-up transformer to run it on 120V. Don't know the amperage at 240 but it's got to be a lot. Double that for 120, bet it will trip some breakers. o_O

Had to look up Mill City. Noticed that it's local for me, and they sell a few green coffees in 10lb lots. Might have to check that out further.
Click to expand...
Actually, it's only 1024w with the heat, drum motor and fans all running full tilt, so 8.5A on 120v or 4.65A on 220v. Even with some added overhead for the step up transformer, it would still safely run on a standard household 120v 15a circuit, which is how the seller said he's been using it.

They are actually made for 208v power. North Roasters is the manufacturer in China, and i guess that's the standard there.
 
MaxStout said:
A cursory CL search in my area turned up this beauty. Primo unit with a 25 lb. drum. Only 18K if you have a truck and you're up for a road trip. ;)
Click to expand...
Haha, front me, I'll be by to pick it up in a couple hours. But yeah kind of like that. I have dreams and visions. But ultimately I am way too lazy and I prefer golf over work and of course would not be a very good production roaster.
 
TallDan said:
I'm not sure. Take a look at higher end espresso machines. Entry level commercial machines are priced similarly to high end home machines, but the feature sets are completely different. I initially assumed that commercial machines would just be better than home machines all around, but that's just not the case.


This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!
Click to expand...
I meant you would like the bullet. That mill city roaster is nice too. Asking new price for used? I don't want commercial for quality as much quantity. Yes Im lazy. It would be sweet to roast 5 pounds at a time. Roast less, age a little, experiment, work, home, sell a little. I can roast 3 pounds an hour easily with hg. But with four of them going that's 12 pounds an hour. I have seen videos. Way to lazy for that.
 
TallDan said:
This is the one that's been turning my gears this week:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/app/d/chicago-mill-city-500g-coffee-roaster/6851932734.html
Now, I might argue that this isn't a true commercial machine. I think Mill City had a few good reasons to stop selling this model, which is all electric. It's underpowered compared to the rest of their line and it sounds like the heating elements don't have a long life when used at commercial volumes, particularly on 220v power instead of 208v. BUT! do those things really matter to me? for basically the same price would i be better off with the bullet? Asking price is basically what these machines sold for new. Is that a sign of great resale value, or a seller with too high of an asking price? ARGH! I don't know!
Click to expand...

Assuming you didn't get this - looks like it's now posted as "Expired".

I couldn't see it but if the price was similar to the Bullet I absolutely would not have gotten the Mill City one. I can't imagine the power is as responsive as the Bullet's induction system, plus the capacity is half the size.

On the other hand, if you DID get it...congrats! Hahahaha.
 
Yemen coffee rested for 10 days. Nice flavor, unique, hard to describe. Probably be great blended with some Kenyan or Central American sweet coffee.
Anyone try that microlot Columbian for GCBC yet??
 

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