Domestic Ingredients

[beersk]

Hey, all.

In the last several years I've made a push for using a lot more domestic ingredients for my beers. I used to exclusively get German and British malts for everything I brew. I brew primarily German lagers and British ales. I have found that Briess Pale Ale malt is a pretty decent replacement for Maris Otter, though I struggle to find a domestic pilsner malt that compares to the richness I get from Weyermann or Best Malz. Some experimentation could be done with mixing in a little vienna or munich to add richness. But I just love the idea of using more locally grown ingredients which, in theory would mean they're fresher.

I used to also use German and British hops. Anymore I use US Goldings for British style and Liberty for German styles and I like the beers I make with them a lot.

I feel that, much like coffee, that process is key to taking you from making good beer to making great beer. As an early adopter of the low O2 brewing method, I feel it makes a difference. Though I am not dogmatic like some are about it. I actually did a side-by-side with a helles back in 2017 and it did indeed make a perceptible difference. The low O2 beer was much smoother without the malt bitterness. That's what several people I had try it told me. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's right for all styles.

Anyway, that aside, I wanted to get a feel from others about using only local grains and hops to feel more connected to the beer and support local/domestic companies as well as being more sustainable. What do you all think?

 

[MaxStout]

I've had good luck using Briess malts, as well. Their Synergy Select Pilsner and Bonlander Munich come close to the German offerings, and my taste buds probably aren't sophisticated enough to tell the diff, anyway. Their cherrywood smoked malt is nice, too.

Another one to look for is Rahr's North Star Pils. Never done a side-by-side comparison against Weyermann, but both the Kolsch and lager I brewed with Rahr a couple years ago turned out well. I would brew with it again.

 

[AlexKay]

Where are you? Find a local craft maltster and see if their products work well for you. I’m in Indiana and buy nearly everything from Sugar Creek.

Except for English crystal. The English have some secret sauce as far as crystal goes. There is no substitute.

 

[mac_1103]

There's a relatively new local maltster in my area that sources all of their grain from local farms. It's a little bit pricier that the big boys (although buying in bulk without shipping charges mitigates that somewhat). I haven't been using them for very long and I'm not sophisticated enough to say much more than "it makes good beer" but I like to support local businesses and I like the idea that my brews feature some of the local terroir.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I haven’t bought any non domestic base in a long time. No local carries the base that I always used. My favorite was Best. My favorite, when I find it, is Rahr North Star. I generally use it @ 80%, mixed with 20% 2 row. I feel like it gives the domestic pils a boost. There are a few localish maltsters. I want to try them. They come at the same price point as GP, or the like. Price doesn’t matter too much. Still cheaper considering a 4 pint pack is $18. Sugar Creek is the maltster. I want to try a sack of their Pils.

 

[AlexKay]

I haven’t bought any non domestic base in a long time. No local carries the base that I always used. My favorite was Best. My favorite, when I find it, is Rahr North Star. I generally use it @ 80%, mixed with 20% 2 row. I feel like it gives the domestic pils a boost. There are a few localish maltsters. I want to try them. They come at the same price point as GP, or the like. Price doesn’t matter too much. Still cheaper considering a 4 pint pack is $18. Sugar Creek is the maltster. I want to try a sack of their Pils.

My personal experience (established through a fair number of side-by-side batches) is that all Pilsner malt tastes pretty much the same -- it's when there's a little more kilning that differences between malt houses really come out. Sugar Creek's Ye Olde Pale Ale is just lovely, an upgrade even when compared to floor-malted Maris Otter.

 

[beersk]

I've had good luck using Briess malts, as well. Their Synergy Select Pilsner and Bonlander Munich come close to the German offerings, and my taste buds probably aren't sophisticated enough to tell the diff, anyway. Their cherrywood smoked malt is nice, too.

Another one to look for is Rahr's North Star Pils. Never done a side-by-side comparison against Weyermann, but both the Kolsch and lager I brewed with Rahr a couple years ago turned out well. I would brew with it again.

I'll have to try Synergy Select again. Last time I used it it definitely has a unique flavor as compared to other pilsner malts I've used. Maybe mixed with some vienna/munich to add complexity. I've tried Rahr pils in the past and found that if you don't pay attention, beers can get a bit tart. I remember Martin Brungard saying years ago that Rahr 2-row (and pils) should be treated as if they're 5L rather than the 1.5L or whatever they are. They tend to drop the pH even further. I had some beers that weren't so good with that malt from absentmindedly over adjusting pH (forgetting the malts dropped the pH that much).

Where are you? Find a local craft maltster and see if their products work well for you. I’m in Indiana and buy nearly everything from Sugar Creek.

Except for English crystal. The English have some secret sauce as far as crystal goes. There is no substitute.

In Iowa City, home of the Hawkeyes. I am in a brew club and we only get domestic malt orders anymore, primarily from a local brewery (Millstream) for Briess malts. We used to do Import malt orders, but that stopped right around the pandemic, I think. Been years since we did one. Getting import malt shipped (usually from RiteBrew) can get quite spendy. But, really the point of me posting this was more about using local ingredients as a matter of principal rather than perceived quality. Quality can still be had with domestic ingredients, no doubt.

 

[AlexKay]

Useful link.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I've never been a fan of Weyermann, there's a reason why they don't sell much malt in Germany and I don't appreciate them putting rocks through my mill on the regular. Just because it's German doesn't mean it's good.

When my prior sack of Best Maltz pils died last summer (that is a quality malt) I looked at the current prices for German malt and said, "No, come back when you're serious."

Fortunately, as a resident of the Mid-Atlantic, I had learned about Riverbend Malthouse and was actively using their Chesapeake Pils, 6-row, and Heritage malts in my fizzy yellow swills. It's not a German malt, it's much better. It's so much more alive in the glass, it's flat-out floral, aromatically floral. There's also some fresh bread and a bit of grain backing it up, but it's floral! It really lifted my fizzy yellow swills. There's nothing I love more than a really floral crop of Hallertau Mittelfruh, which sadly doesn't happen much, but Riverbend's pils seems to accentuate the floral quality of hops. I'm much happier with their pils malt than I ever was with, likely years old, German malt that tasted like day-old bread.

I haven't tried their version of UK 2-row just yet, I can still get a sack of Warminster Otter for about the same price. I doubt that will last. When the time comes, I'll confidently switch over to Riverbend's offering. I doubt it'll be the same, but I'm confident it will be excellent.

 

[bike2brew]

Despite living in TN, I try to brew Wisconsinibly with Briess malts whenever I can. However I find a few of their malts are a bit more difficult to locate. Yakima valley hops, etc trying to be true to my American style ales. I probably need to add White labs yeast to my production profile as they are reasonably local to me just over the mountain. Great thread, love reading about everyone's perspective and experience.

 

[Conehead]

Shipping is making German malts too expensive. I am back to buying Canadian malts now.

 

[MaxStout]

I brew a fair amount of British and Irish ales, so I use a lot of MO. I usually get Bairds or Fawcett. Tried some Warminster once, it was rife with stems and twigs.

Anyone know a good North American replacement that's close to the UK Maris?

 

[beersk]

I brew a fair amount of British and Irish ales, so I use a lot of MO. I usually get Bairds or Fawcett. Tried some Warminster once, it was rife with stems and twigs.

Anyone know a good North American replacement that's close to the UK Maris?

I've been happy with the British beers I'm making with Briess Pale Ale Malt. It's about 3.5L and has a nice flavor. Like using American pilsner malt in place of German pilsner malt, it's not going to be the same, but it works for me.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I can't speak much to German malts because I brew almost exclusively British ales. But I seem to recall liking Weyermann's munichs, as well as their carafa line. Now, at my store, we have Avangard and Bestmalz.

I decidedly prefer MO to any of the pale offerings by Briess. I really like Warminster, it has worked great for me, though I seem to recall a British brewer from another site saying he'd had turbidity issues with it so no longer uses it. I've had great luck with Fawcett's, and Simpson's as well.

I also prefer British crystal malts to Briess's.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

In combination with a bunch of process changes, I'm back brewing with Great Western base (two row, pale) and crystal (40 / 60 / 75 /120) malts - and enjoying the results.

In the past, I've also used Rahr two row, Canada Malting two row, and some of the Mecca Grade malts with enjoyable results.

 

[mashpaddled]

I'd check out some of the craft maltsters for sure. Over here in Colorado I pick up Root Shoot's products. I believe they sell through the NB/Midwest/AiH/AHB conglomerate as well. Their pilsner and pale malts are both superior to anything I've found from the larger domestic maltsters. (Everything I've used from them is spectacular.) You will pay a premium but even with an extra $10-20 per batch you're still brewing cheaper than you can buy equivalent beers.

 

[Zippy123]

Useful link.

Thanks for this resource. Looks like I'll need to stop at one or more of these maltsters on my next road trip. I am 7 miles from my RiteBrew and therefore only 30 miles from Briess so I use almost exclusively Briess malts. I consider Briess local but not a "craft" malter. Anyway they are not included on the above link to craft malters.

I do not consider my flavor perception / flavor discrimination to be highly evolved. So I suspect I could be missing something when I taste one of my beers made with base malt from Best vs Briess. Same with Briess's crystal (which they call caramel) malts. Not sure I would be able to taste the difference side-by-side. This might not be true for the supertasters and competition judges out there. For the sake of simplicity, I'm glad that's not me!

 

[beersk]

I'd check out some of the craft maltsters for sure. Over here in Colorado I pick up Root Shoot's products. I believe they sell through the NB/Midwest/AiH/AHB conglomerate as well. Their pilsner and pale malts are both superior to anything I've found from the larger domestic maltsters. (Everything I've used from them is spectacular.) You will pay a premium but even with an extra $10-20 per batch you're still brewing cheaper than you can buy equivalent beers.

Extra $10-20 per batch? Of beer? That doesn't seem right. You mean per sack?

 

[corncob]

This is a great thread. I'm very interested in the domestic craft malt. A lot of it seems hard to actually buy, but I'm going to start experimenting with what I can get soon.

I've used a ton of Maris Otter at this point, but have recently been trying the domestic malts out of curiosity/poverty. They really aren't bad at all. Turns out US pilsner can be used to make a delicious English ale. Different, but good.

 

[hottpeper13]

If I make all the lights and there is no traffic(happened once) I can be at Proximity Malt in Milwaukee in 17 min. I buy these buy the sack, pale ale , pils, munich, and wheat malt. These are the base malts I use in various combinations to make ALL my beer since covid. I got 20 lbs of the Barke Pils and am not impressed with the flavor or the super light color. If you're looking for a local dark crystal for english brews try Proximity C-150.

 

[madscientist451]

Deer Creek malt house accessible to me, a 55 lb sack of pale malt is $62, the Pilsner is $88. Seems high, but about the same if I get grain like Rahr or Briess shipped to me. When I use up what I’ve got on hand I may try it.

 

[beersk]

If I make all the lights and there is no traffic(happened once) I can be at Proximity Malt in Milwaukee in 17 min. I buy these buy the sack, pale ale , pils, munich, and wheat malt. These are the base malts I use in various combinations to make ALL my beer since covid. I got 20 lbs of the Barke Pils and am not impressed with the flavor or the super light color. If you're looking for a local dark crystal for english brews try Proximity C-150.

That's great. If I had some place like that near me I'd totally switch. As it is now, my brew club gets Briess for cheap through a local brewery. The beer, while still good isn't quite the same. But at least I know the grains are fresh and it's a bit more economical from a shipping and environmental standpoint. And you can't beat $25-30/sack.

 

[Conehead]

You want to see crazy malt prices, go to www.torontobrewing.ca.

 

[McMullan]

You want to see crazy malt prices, go to www.torontobrewing.ca.

WTF! I hope they go out of business.

 

[Agent]

If I make all the lights and there is no traffic(happened once) I can be at Proximity Malt in Milwaukee in 17 min.

Huh. Today I learned Proximity has multiple locations, including one in MKE.
Too bad they are closed weekends, which is the only time I make it down there.

 

[Conehead]

WTF! I hope they go out of business.

One of the biggest homebrew stores in Canada went out of business in Toronto. This one has raised their prices at least 4 times in the last few months. I guess they are taking advantage of supply and demand.

 

[beersk]

You want to see crazy malt prices, go to www.torontobrewing.ca.

Those are high, but they don't look any worse than Northern Brewer to me. Have you looked there recently? https://www.northernbrewer.com/collections/base-malts?_=pf&pf_t_quantity=GrainQty:Full Sacks

 

[kevin58]

For almost a year I only used Michigan malts and hops. They worked great... especially the hops. It seems the soil and climate in our state is very good for C hops. The issue I had is that the maltster got a large contract with a Michigan craft brewer and stopped selling to homebrew stores. That kind of let the air out of my "only brew local" experiment and I went back to what I always used before. Not long ago however another maltster opened in the state and I may revisit the local malt/local hops venture.

 

[McMullan]

One of the biggest homebrew stores in Canada went out of business in Toronto. This one has raised their prices at least 4 times in the last few months. I guess they are taking advantage of supply and demand.

Same here, in Norway. One of the biggest went under early last year. I stopped using them years ago, though. They were always profiteers milking it, imo. Their main competitor got more customers then bumped prices, but I think it backfired and now they’ve dropped pricing back. I’m happy paying extra and importing what I need from the UK now. There’s definitely signs the HB market is contracting, but, oddly, not much competition for some reason. The HB shops remaining are kidding themselves if they believe the market is actually growing. Used market is flooded with HB stuff.

 

[Franktalk]

I use local! Stone Path Malt is less than about 45 minutes away. Excellent craft malt using German equipment and processes. Like others on this thread I make lagers and English styles mostly. When brewing bitters, I use 2-row and a half lb. of biscuit malt.

Also, Great Western American Pale is an excellent substitute for Maris Otter. I have used that a lot, and it's so close to MO, no one will know the difference.

 

[beersk]

I use local! Stone Path Malt is less than about 45 minutes away. Excellent craft malt using German equipment and processes. Like others on this thread I make lagers and English styles mostly. When brewing bitters, I use 2-row and a half lb. of biscuit malt.

Also, Great Western American Pale is an excellent substitute for Maris Otter. I have used that a lot, and it's so close to MO, no one will know the difference.

Nice call on the biscuit malt. I've found I really like Special Roast if I'm not using a good Maris Otter. I also use special roast in my Irish Reds. Absolutely love what it adds to the beer.

 

[beersk]

Same here, in Norway. One of the biggest went under early last year. I stopped using them years ago, though. They were always profiteers milking it, imo. Their main competitor got more customers then bumped prices, but I think it backfired and now they’ve dropped pricing back. I’m happy paying extra and importing what I need from the UK now. There’s definitely signs the HB market is contracting, but, oddly, not much competition for some reason. The HB shops remaining are kidding themselves if they believe the market is actually growing. Used market is flooded with HB stuff.

Where in Norway are you? Is shipping reasonable or pretty high to get malt from the UK? I'm not sure what I'd do if I was in a situation like that. Not sure I'd want to drink Ringnes exclusively knowing that Norway doesn't have a huge craft beer scene...unless that's changing.

 

[McMullan]

Where in Norway are you? Is shipping reasonable or pretty high to get malt from the UK? I'm not sure what I'd do if I was in a situation like that. Not sure I'd want to drink Ringnes exclusively knowing that Norway doesn't have a huge craft beer scene...unless that's changing.

Just over an hour’s drive from Oslo. Shipping from the UK is about $30 up to 30kg and they remove UK VAT, so not too bad if getting stuff not available locally. Although the value of the NOK is pretty weak these days. Craft beer took off here quite late, not much more than 10 years ago. Very expensive for mediocre, tbh. And far too hazy. Ægir have been consistently good, imo. But it’s a tiny market and oversaturated so unlikely to grow much without exporting, which is a problem for most due to costs and better competition elsewhere.

 

[beersk]

Just over an hour’s drive from Oslo. Shipping from the UK is about $30 up to 30kg and they remove UK VAT, so not too bad if getting stuff not available locally. Although the value of the NOK is pretty weak these days. Craft beer took off here quite late, not much more than 10 years ago. Very expensive for mediocre, tbh. And far too hazy. Ægir have been consistently good, imo. But it’s a tiny market and oversaturated so unlikely to grow much without exporting, which is a problem for most due to costs and better competition elsewhere.

Hmm, well $30 is about what it is for me in Iowa for 25kg. Maybe a tad less. I'm not sure what I'd do if i were in your shoes, probably just what you're doing now. I imagine craft beer that is available is essentially jumping in on the trends going on here in the US: hazy, fruity, sour, and barrel-aged. In other words, very unbeer-like.
But what Norway does better than the US is metal! Anyone argues against that is high on magic markers.

 

[MaxStout]

Nice call on the biscuit malt. I've found I really like Special Roast if I'm not using a good Maris Otter. I also use special roast in my Irish Reds. Absolutely love what it adds to the beer.

I bought a pound of Special Roast, out of curiosity, though I haven't used it yet. I have a ton of Pilsner malt I got free, wondering if 4 or 5% Special Roast added to that might be a good "faux Maris" base for a British brew.

 

[beersk]

I bought a pound of Special Roast, out of curiosity, though I haven't used it yet. I have a ton of Pilsner malt I got free, wondering if 4 or 5% Special Roast added to that might be a good "faux Maris" base for a British brew.

I like what it adds, kind of a sourdough kind of thing with a toasty/biscuit character. Really nice in Irish Red. I first read about it in Brewing Classic Styles ages ago.

 

[Bassman2003]

I do not quite get how a local maltster has a product that is priced the same as a German competitor. It seems to me there should be some savings for the end consumer. Volume plays a part no doubt but I will never try it if I can get solid continental malts for the same or lower price. If I could pick it up at the maltster it might be better but then you are not supporting your LHBS...

 

[MaxStout]

I like what it adds, kind of a sourdough kind of thing with a toasty/biscuit character. Really nice in Irish Red. I first read about it in Brewing Classic Styles ages ago.

I might throw 1/2 lb in with some Pilsner just to see its characteristics. DMASH.

 

[Conehead]

Those are high, but they don't look any worse than Northern Brewer to me. Have you looked there recently? https://www.northernbrewer.com/collections/base-malts?_=pf&pf_t_quantity=GrainQty:Full Sacks

My god!! Convert those prices to Canadian dollars and see what you get. What's going on? Unbelievable.

 

[Conehead]

I asked about the high prices here on our Canadian Beer forum and got quite a few responses from homebrew shop owners. They said it is not just the ingredients that make up the price. Utilities and taxes are high here in Canada and that all has to go into the price of ingredients. They said they are under a lot of pressure to raise prices just to make a living.