New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Hannabrew]

That blowoff to keg setup is something I've never thought of before, having never kegged, but now that I have a setup I think I have ll the parts to do this successfully. What a great idea.

Couple questions:

1) Is the purging keg just clean/sanitized and empty (filled with normal air) to get pushed into the other keg and then out.

2) If I wanted to fill my purging keg with star san to the top, would the off gassing of the fermentation provide enough pressure in the head space push the liquid out, like doing a normal star san purge would under pressure (just saving on the CO2)

3) Could you use a spunding valve on the purging keg and essentially to a chain pressurized fermentation all the way back to the carboy under low pressure (3-5psi) and still fully purge the keg

I'm so interested to try this.

Yeah I usually just sanitize them, let them dry out completely and then fermentation purge. No need to push out star San...only reason for that is to maximize the purging but fermentation purging is even more effective.

If you really wanted to push star San you'd have to have a fermenter that could hold a good amount of pressure. Never tried it

You could definitely throw a spunding valve on the end of the chain and keep the whole system pressurized

 

[couchsending]

[QUOTE="leesmith, post: 8516341, member: 153239”]

I remember sitting at Sloop watching my kids play on the play set and this guy was raving about Eq and how they were soo much better than Suarez. I just smiled.

[/QUOTE]

Smiled and hoped that person told everyone they knew the exact same thing!!

 

[leesmith]

Smiled and hoped that person told everyone they knew the exact same thing!!

More Suarez for us.

 

[tld6008]

Yeah I usually just sanitize them, let them dry out completely and then fermentation purge. No need to push out star San...only reason for that is to maximize the purging but fermentation purging is even more effective.

If you really wanted to push star San you'd have to have a fermenter that could hold a good amount of pressure. Never tried it

You could definitely throw a spunding valve on the end of the chain and keep the whole system pressurized

If your are just pushing CO2 into an MT keg full of air (20% O2) instead of replacing the full liquid volume with gas, i.e. starsan or water with CO2, you will not remove all O2 from the keg.

 

[stickyfinger]

I’ve alway let my 1318 hang out in the high 60’s then finish out at 72. My brother on the other hand does 62-63, his ester profile is about the same as mine, usually. I will say his last batch was spund and I think he only did a 9 day ferment, but it had a bad case of hop creep, it was a diacetyl bomb. I’ve never personally had this problem.

thanks for the info. had diacetyl issues before spunding but never since. cold ferm temps could be a hazard for sure!

 

[jakturner]

If your are just pushing CO2 into an MT keg full of air (20% O2) instead of replacing the full liquid volume with gas, i.e. starsan or water with CO2, you will not remove all O2 from the keg.

I used to water purge kegs then I switched to fermentation purge after reading this thread, no difference in beer quality but it’s saves on co2 refills and its easy to do. Plus I like to imagine my hop aromas from fermentation are being magically trapped in that receiving keg. LOL

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/keg-purging-with-active-fermentation.628658/

Somebody in this thread does some serious math!

 

[Hannabrew]

If your are just pushing CO2 into an MT keg full of air (20% O2) instead of replacing the full liquid volume with gas, i.e. starsan or water with CO2, you will not remove all O2 from the keg.

How do you figure?

http://www.********************/bre...rging-transferring-stabilizing-finished-beer/

 

[tld6008]

How do you figure?

http://www.********************/bre...rging-transferring-stabilizing-finished-beer/

Well I don't figure as well as the Low O2 Brewing guys do. I am impressed with their analysis. I never would have imagined that a fermenting 5 gal. batch of beer produced the volume of CO2 they describe. If that is correct I would agree that you can purge a keg of air efficiently using that method. Thanks for schooling me.

 

[nick sekerak]

You can drive your temps. Start 68-70 first day or so. Then up to 72 during aftive fermentation. Once it starts to slow a tad let it sit at 74-75 and then slowly bring it back down around 70-72 to clean up. I have success with this drive. But also some people swear by keeping it at 63 the entire fermentation to pick up the esters

After peak ferment slows How long do you let it sit at 74/75 before you cool to 70-72. Is it based on gravity points or times?

 

[nick sekerak]

they drive it higher to get more flavor

I have had apple cider/sour apple off flavors from it getting higher in the summer like 78* before I could control it.

 

[Hannabrew]

Well I don't figure as well as the Low O2 Brewing guys do. I am impressed with their analysis. I never would have imagined that a fermenting 5 gal. batch of beer produced the volume of CO2 they describe. If that is correct I would agree that you can purge a keg of air efficiently using that method. Thanks for schooling me.

Ha, for what it's worth the math is all taken from a thread on this site by Doug293cz

 

[Dgallo]

After peak ferment slows How long do you let it sit at 74/75 before you cool to 70-72. Is it based on gravity points or times?

I once it starts to slow I let it sit 74-75 for about a day or so. After that I slowly drop the heat to 70-72 and then I let it sit there for 3 days to clean up. I have a transparent FV so I can see it slow, if you don’t, make the change once you see your airlock start to slow.

I have had apple cider/sour apple off flavors from it getting higher in the summer like 78* before I could control it.

The off flavor you are experiencing is acetaldehyde. This is not caused by temperature. It’s due to removing the beer off its yeast cake too early when fermentation isnt quite done or before the yeast has been given enough time to clean its self off. Acetaldehyde is a precursor of alcohol and many yeast strains will form it in the begging stages of fermentation. During the final stage of fermentation the yeast will reconsume it and full convert it into alcohol. Many people get this due to using a secondary fermenter. If you are, stop using it. Otherwise just give the beer 48-72 at 70-72 degrees once it hits FG

 

[Hannabrew]

@Braufessor are you still pitching starters at high krausen?

If so, curious about your process.

How large of a starter for a typical batch (our this recipe)? DME or leftover wort? And do you save any of the yeast for the next batch?

Four heavily hopped beers, I've done traditional overbuilt stir plate starters, chilled, decanted, and pitched but just got through reading the shaken not stirred thread and I'm interested...

 

[nick sekerak]

I once it starts to slow I let it sit 74-75 for about a day or so. After that I slowly drop the heat to 70-72 and then I let it sit there for 3 days to clean up. I have a transparent FV so I can see it slow, if you don’t, make the change once you see your airlock start to slow.

The off flavor you are experiencing is acetaldehyde. This is not caused by temperature. It’s due to removing the beer off its yeast cake too early when fermentation isnt quite done or before the yeast has been given enough time to clean its self off. Acetaldehyde is a precursor of alcohol and many yeast strains will form it in the begging stages of fermentation. During the final stage of fermentation the yeast will reconsume it and full convert it into alcohol. Many people get this due to using a secondary fermenter. If you are, stop using it. Otherwise just give the beer 48-72 at 70-72 degrees once it hits FG

I will try this on my batch currently in my FV.

I once it starts to slow I let it sit 74-75 for about a day or so. After that I slowly drop the heat to 70-72 and then I let it sit there for 3 days to clean up. I have a transparent FV so I can see it slow, if you don’t, make the change once you see your airlock start to slow.

The off flavor you are experiencing is acetaldehyde. This is not caused by temperature. It’s due to removing the beer off its yeast cake too early when fermentation isnt quite done or before the yeast has been given enough time to clean its self off. Acetaldehyde is a precursor of alcohol and many yeast strains will form it in the begging stages of fermentation. During the final stage of fermentation the yeast will reconsume it and full convert it into alcohol. Many people get this due to using a secondary fermenter. If you are, stop using it. Otherwise just give the beer 48-72 at 70-72 degrees once it hits FG

Thanks for the breakdown, i am going to use this schedule on my next batch to compare it to what i am doing now, holding the temp at 65-68 the entire time.

I was not aware of Acetaldehyde was producing that off flavor. A few people told me it was from ferment temps being high. I never rack to secondary with my conical, so i may have not given it enough time to rest after hitting FG. My process was when i hit the presumed FG, i would wait two days check gravity again and if no movement happened i would them keg.

 

[Dgallo]

I will try this on my batch currently in my FV.


Thanks for the breakdown, i am going to use this schedule on my next batch to compare it to what i am doing now, holding the temp at 65-68 the entire time.

I was not aware of Acetaldehyde was producing that off flavor. A few people told me it was from ferment temps being high. I never rack to secondary with my conical, so i may have not given it enough time to rest after hitting FG. My process was when i hit the presumed FG, i would wait two days check gravity again and if no movement happened i would them keg.

It could have also been underpitching. Overall yeast health issue. Anyway, you no longer have that issue so you def fixed it. Good luck man. Let me know if you see a increased ester profile

 

[leesmith]

I will try this on my batch currently in my FV.


Thanks for the breakdown, i am going to use this schedule on my next batch to compare it to what i am doing now, holding the temp at 65-68 the entire time.

I was not aware of Acetaldehyde was producing that off flavor. A few people told me it was from ferment temps being high. I never rack to secondary with my conical, so i may have not given it enough time to rest after hitting FG. My process was when i hit the presumed FG, i would wait two days check gravity again and if no movement happened i would them keg.

If you had no temperature control...your 78 degrees in the day could drop at night due to ambient temps dropping...this also causes the beer to contract especially if it’s hit final gravity and not producing any co2....and then it pulls in o2.

So...possibly the beer was being jerked around in temperature and possibly sucking in o2 at the end. Both things not good for yeast clean up.

Never cool you beer back down until you are sure it’s done. You can cause to yeast to stop and drop out. Then any off flavors could possibly not be cleaned up.

Stick to a steady fermentation temp and if you raise it...keep it there until you want to drop the yeast. Smell and taste a sample....

 

[Dgallo]

If you had no temperature control...your 78 degrees in the day could drop at night due to ambient temps dropping...this also causes the beer to contract especially if it’s hit final gravity and not producing any co2....and then it pulls in o2.

So...possibly the beer was being jerked around in temperature and possibly sucking in o2 at the end. Both things not good for yeast clean up.

Never cool you beer back down until you are sure it’s done. You can cause to yeast to stop and drop out. Then any off flavors could possibly not be cleaned up.

Stick to a steady fermentation temp and if you raise it...keep it there until you want to drop the yeast. Smell and taste a sample....

Totally disagree. Belgian beer styles purposely are given constant temp changes to create desirable ester profiles. Also what your claiming goes against physics with temp changes. As long as the beer temp does not fall below the ambient air temperature of the room, it will not create suction. So if the room is at 64, the beer would have to drop below that before the pressure change could occur

 

[leesmith]

I have had apple cider/sour apple off flavors from it getting higher in the summer like 78* before I could control it.

He couldn’t control the temp as he stated above. So once fermentation slows down the temperature of the liquid will cool especially if no temperature control with the ambient temp surrounding the beer. Ambient temp will fluctuate from day to night. Unless something is done about it.

He’s not brewing a Belgian beer style.

I think the cons outweigh the pros in this case. The yeast being slowed down by a temp drop may not recover and clean up either Acetaldehyde or diacetyl.

As stated by other contributors to this forum, people have not experienced greater ester production due to messing with temperatures within the advertised ferm temps of this particular yeast.

Safe advise would be to ferment steady with an increase in temp towards the end and let it finish cleaning up.

If you want more esters to come through...don’t cover them up with greater amounts of hops. Hop less like you have supported.

I just pulled a sample of my pale ale to check for diacetyl yesterday. It was fermented at 66...ramped to 68...then to 70 and I’ve been holding it there to clean up. I have not dry hopped it yet.
The sample had a generous aroma of stone fruit...peach if you want to call it that. At this point it’s a recipe decision if I want to dry hop less and show off those esters or dry hop more and have them be a back note.

 

[stefan646]

HOPS: (I have gone to 1 whirlpool/flameout addition and 1 dry hop)
**60 Min. = .5 oz Warrior (Or, none at all if you want to lay off bittering addition).

**Flameout/whirlpool =
Chill to 160 or below and add 6 ounces of Hops.
I generally go with 3 ounces of Citra, 2 ounces Mosaic, 1 ounce of Galaxy – but there are plenty of other combinations (listed later on).

I continue chilling at this point now…. No real “hop stand” at a particular temperature. I just like to get the temperature down to 160 or so, get the hops in, and continue chilling. It still takes 20-30 minutes from this point to going into fermenter anyway.

Stir up/whirlpool wort every 5 minutes or so to get hops in suspension.
Chill to 62-65 and let hops settle out as much as possible (just let it sit for 10minutes or so after it is chilled). Transfer wort to fermenter. I tend to leave behind .75 gallons of trub and hops (this is why I brew 6.5 gallon batch).

**Dry Hop – I now do a single, 6 ounce dry hop around day 2-3. Hops go in loose and they stay in for duration of fermentation. My standard recipe dry hop is 3 ounces of citra, 2 ounces Mosaic, 1 ounce of Galaxy.

Hello guys,

I am preparing to make this recipe(my first IPA) using no chill method and bottling - I have no other options !
My questions are: 1) regard the flameout/whirlpool hops addition: should I move all the 6 oz hops to FWH or should I wait until the wort chills to 160 and then add the hops and let it chill until pitch temp(usually the next day)? - I am guessing I should use the FWD method
2) what is the benefit of adding the dry hops when the beer is still fermenting vs after the fermentation ? All the recipes that I made and saw so far, suggest to add the dry hops after the fermentation is done, so that the flavor is preserved. It's for avoiding oxidation?
3)regard the oxidation and bottling I should take: a) the usual way- fermenting in bucket, transfer to priming bucket, bottle; b) skip the priming bucket and use a fermenting bucket with a spigot so I could bottle directly, using with priming sugar in the bottle; c)skip the bucket and ferment in a carboy(I don't have one yet, but I will buy one if necessary) and then bottle with a siphon directly in the bottles

Thank you !

 

[SRJHops]

Hello guys,

I am preparing to make this recipe(my first IPA) using no chill method and bottling - I have no other options !
My questions are: 1) regard the flameout/whirlpool hops addition: should I move all the 6 oz hops to FWH or should I wait until the wort chills to 160 and then add the hops and let it chill until pitch temp(usually the next day)? - I am guessing I should use the FWD method
2) what is the benefit of adding the dry hops when the beer is still fermenting vs after the fermentation ? All the recipes that I made and saw so far, suggest to add the dry hops after the fermentation is done, so that the flavor is preserved. It's for avoiding oxidation?
3)regard the oxidation and bottling I should take: a) the usual way- fermenting in bucket, transfer to priming bucket, bottle; b) skip the priming bucket and use a fermenting bucket with a spigot so I could bottle directly, using with priming sugar in the bottle; c)skip the bucket and ferment in a carboy(I don't have one yet, but I will buy one if necessary) and then bottle with a siphon directly in the bottles

Thank you !

1. I would not move those hops to FWH unless it's in the recipe and/or you really want to make a bitter beer. Put them in at 160, where the flavor will be extracted. (Also, it sounds like you are committed to no-chill, but have you considered chilling with ice?)

2. A lot of NEIPA recipes will say to add the first round of dry hops on day 1-2 of fermentation, during high krausen. It has to do with "biostransformation" of the hops, which causes some of the haze and flavor.

Of course, you probably already have hops in there, and not everyone is on board with this step anymore. But if it's the only dry hop you do, and you don't open the bucket/carboy again until bottling, then you will be taking some good steps to avoid oxidation.

If you dry hop a few days before bottling, you could get some oxidation. But adding that 2nd hop charge should bump up flavor and aroma. Personally, as a bottler worried about oxidation, I am leaning toward maybe just doing the one dry hop on day 2. (But let me try my latest batch -- which did get the second charge 3 days before bottling -- and get back to you. It's on Day 7 of bottle conditioning.)

3. Avoid transferring beer with this style - it will oxidize it. Better to ferment right in the bucket with the siphon, and then right into bottles with sugar in them. I use Cooper's sugar tabs, but you can also just put in drops of dissolved sugar -- I personally worry about getting the amount right. Others have said to drop the sugar right into the carboy, but I worry it won't get mixed in right.

The best NEIPA I've made so far was done the way I described -- just dry hopped on Day 2 and I didn't open the fermenter until bottling straight into bombers (with sugar tablets) on Day 14.

Good luck and please report back!

 

[nick sekerak]

If you had no temperature control...your 78 degrees in the day could drop at night due to ambient temps dropping...this also causes the beer to contract especially if it’s hit final gravity and not producing any co2....and then it pulls in o2.

So...possibly the beer was being jerked around in temperature and possibly sucking in o2 at the end. Both things not good for yeast clean up.

Never cool you beer back down until you are sure it’s done. You can cause to yeast to stop and drop out. Then any off flavors could possibly not be cleaned up.

Stick to a steady fermentation temp and if you raise it...keep it there until you want to drop the yeast. Smell and taste a sample....

This information is coming at the perfect time for my brew in the FV. I have a NEPA getting ready to finish. It was at 1012 yesterday and i raised the temp to 70*, and it should be at about 71-72* by tonight. On average my FG's only get two or three more gravity points lower from this point on. So if i understand you all, once the gravity has stopped dropping, is that defined as no movement within 24hrs...Right? Then i should wait 2 more days for cleanup to finish then i can drop the temps and keg.

 

[WBCo]

IMO bottle carbing or conditioning in itself is not going to detrimentally affect the taste of your beer. Many of the beers we are trying to emulate have been bottle or can conditioned and have the results in the bottom which many people end up reviving to brew with again. I would think if you added your priming sugar to your carboy you would need to distribute it thereby stirring up unnecessary debris that shouldn't be in the bottle. Seems like the carb drops in the each bottle would be the best option if bottling from your fermenter.

Do you know of any breweries specifically that are bottle or can conditioning their beer? I know some of them naturally carb with spiesse or krausening, but it's my understanding that the carbonation is happening in bright tanks, completely free of oxygen. The then unfiltered, carbonated beer is packaged. Just curious if someone is doing something differently.

 

[Braufessor]

@Braufessor are you still pitching starters at high krausen?

If so, curious about your process.

How large of a starter for a typical batch (our this recipe)? DME or leftover wort? And do you save any of the yeast for the next batch?

Four heavily hopped beers, I've done traditional overbuilt stir plate starters, chilled, decanted, and pitched but just got through reading the shaken not stirred thread and I'm interested...

Yes - I am making a 1 liter starter 12-18 hours in advance and pitching the entire thing into 6 gallons.

For starters, I almost always use a 1L starter made from RO water, yeast nutrient and DME to hit around 1.030 or so gravity.

Generally, if I have a new pack of yeast, I will make a 1 liter starter and pitch 12-18 hours later into some generic low gravity beer.

When I keg the generic beer, I will harvest about 3-5 one pint jars of slurry from the fermenter and put in fridge.

When I want to brew another beer (like this one), I take out a jar of the slurry, boil up 1 L of 1.030 starter wort using DME. I decant most of the liquid off my harvest yeast and then add it to the cooled wort..... making a 1L starter. I either shake or put starter on stipulate for an hour or so.

12-18 hours later, I pitch the entire thing.

I generally don't over build starters to save for next time as I am harvesting and saving yeast that way.

I have never looked back once I went this route based on that "Shaken/Stirred" thread and others that were related.

 

[leesmith]

This information is coming at the perfect time for my brew in the FV. I have a NEPA getting ready to finish. It was at 1012 yesterday and i raised the temp to 70*, and it should be at about 71-72* by tonight. On average my FG's only get two or three more gravity points lower from this point on. So if i understand you all, once the gravity has stopped dropping, is that defined as no movement within 24hrs...Right? Then i should wait 2 more days for cleanup to finish then i can drop the temps and keg.

When I think my beer has hit final gravity...I then wait until I can’t smell or taste diacetyl (look up a forced diacetyl test). Predicted FG will be hit in 2-5 days depending on gravity and then the beer needs 2-5 more days to clean up. Once I can’t detect the diacetyl....I crash it and get it off the yeast.

This is a relatively new process for me but feel it is a reliable one. I used to just prescribe to the 2 day rule after hitting FG...but every beer and yeast is different.

 

[tld6008]

Do you know of any breweries specifically that are bottle or can conditioning their beer? I know some of them naturally carb with spiesse or krausening, but it's my understanding that the carbonation is happening in bright tanks, completely free of oxygen. The then unfiltered, carbonated beer is packaged. Just curious if someone is doing something differently.

I am told Sierra Nevada may still do this, Bass, The Alchemist and Parish Brewing for a couple others. Parish Brewing is a small brewery in Broussard Louisiana and I have grown the yeast from their cans. Several other forums on this site discuss harvesting live yeast from various different brands. Check out this link
https://blog.eckraus.com/harvest-yeast-from-commercial-beer

 

[Hannabrew]

Yes - I am making a 1 liter starter 12-18 hours in advance and pitching the entire thing into 6 gallons.

For starters, I almost always use a 1L starter made from RO water, yeast nutrient and DME to hit around 1.030 or so gravity.

Generally, if I have a new pack of yeast, I will make a 1 liter starter and pitch 12-18 hours later into some generic low gravity beer.

When I keg the generic beer, I will harvest about 3-5 one pint jars of slurry from the fermenter and put in fridge.

When I want to brew another beer (like this one), I take out a jar of the slurry, boil up 1 L of 1.030 starter wort using DME. I decant most of the liquid off my harvest yeast and then add it to the cooled wort..... making a 1L starter. I either shake or put starter on stipulate for an hour or so.

12-18 hours later, I pitch the entire thing.

I generally don't over build starters to save for next time as I am harvesting and saving yeast that way.

I have never looked back once I went this route based on that "Shaken/Stirred" thread and others that were related.

Thanks that's what I was wondering.

My only issue with it is it's nearly impossible to harvest clean yeast from a neipa so if I'm not saving anything from my starter it's a new smack pack each time. I suppose I could purposely brew something other than a neipa or only keg hop for one batch and use that cake for multiple pitches afterwards.

 

[leesmith]

Thanks that's what I was wondering.

My only issue with it is it's nearly impossible to harvest clean yeast from a neipa so if I'm not saving anything from my starter it's a new smack pack each time. I suppose I could purposely brew something other than a neipa or only keg hop for one batch and use that cake for multiple pitches afterwards.

Ferment a beer. Do a closed transfer to a keg with hops. Harvest clean yeast from the primary vessel.

This particular jar pictured below is fresh from when I transfer to spund....that's why its got a krausen...but you could easily wait until gravity has become stable and transfer to a purged keg to dry hop in.

This first single dry hopped batch (still a NEIPA) could then provide enough yeast for probably four more batches and some of those you could double dry hop if you wanted. I personally don't double dry hop anymore.

 

[stickyfinger]

I've been having good results harvesting from starters for beers like NEIPA. I start with a fresh pack and grow up 1L for every ~5G batch or harvest that I want. So, if I want to pitch two batches and have one to harvest, I just make a 3L starter using the one pack. If I am feeling motivated I might grow up a 1L and then grow that up into larger volumes to get more growth. I usually do the starter the day before the brew sometime and pitch when it is still active somewhat at least. I use a sterilized liter plastic bottle to measure out my pitch for each batch and then pour the final starter into the plastic bottle and let rest warm for another day before sealing it up and storing in my beer fridge. I used to use mason jars with plastic wrap and white plastic lid on top but I like the sterile plastic jars better (cynmar.com has them.)

I used to spend more time and energy planning out the starter so I could get a better estimate of the pitch rate (using mrmalty or homebrew dad calculators) but now I just go with the 1L starter method of active yeast and it seems to give great results for beers up to like 1.085 OG at least. If I'm going over 1.085 or 1.100, I'd want to pitch more yeast. I've done comparisons of the exact same worth fermented by friends with US-05 or yeast cakes or what not, and I've usually been very close to them for FG, shockingly close in some cases. Of course, I am could be getting variability in flavor from different pitch rates - haven't looked into that much. As long as it tastes good and attenuates reasonably I'm happy!

Thanks that's what I was wondering.

My only issue with it is it's nearly impossible to harvest clean yeast from a neipa so if I'm not saving anything from my starter it's a new smack pack each time. I suppose I could purposely brew something other than a neipa or only keg hop for one batch and use that cake for multiple pitches afterwards.

 

[Hannabrew]

Ferment a beer. Do a closed transfer to a keg with hops. Harvest clean yeast from the primary vessel.

This particular jar pictured below is fresh from when I transfer to spund....that's why its got a krausen...but you could easily wait until gravity has become stable and transfer to a purged keg to dry hop in.

This first single dry hopped batch (still a NEIPA) could then provide enough yeast for probably four more batches and some of those you could double dry hop if you wanted. I personally don't double dry hop anymore.

View attachment 612144

Yeah i mentioned keg hopping only but there would still be a decent amount of whirlpool hops in there most likely and my recent process with these beers is only a single dry hop in the primary. I don't like the beer sitting on hops for extended periods in the keg and I also don't like using filters when DHing.

 

[Hannabrew]

I've been having good results harvesting from starters for beers like NEIPA. I start with a fresh pack and grow up 1L for every ~5G batch or harvest that I want. So, if I want to pitch two batches and have one to harvest, I just make a 3L starter using the one pack. If I am feeling motivated I might grow up a 1L and then grow that up into larger volumes to get more growth. I usually do the starter the day before the brew sometime and pitch when it is still active somewhat at least. I use a sterilized liter plastic bottle to measure out my pitch for each batch and then pour the final starter into the plastic bottle and let rest warm for another day before sealing it up and storing in my beer fridge. I used to use mason jars with plastic wrap and white plastic lid on top but I like the sterile plastic jars better (cynmar.com has them.)

I used to spend more time and energy planning out the starter so I could get a better estimate of the pitch rate (using mrmalty or homebrew dad calculators) but now I just go with the 1L starter method of active yeast and it seems to give great results for beers up to like 1.085 OG at least. If I'm going over 1.085 or 1.100, I'd want to pitch more yeast. I've done comparisons of the exact same worth fermented by friends with US-05 or yeast cakes or what not, and I've usually been very close to them for FG, shockingly close in some cases. Of course, I am could be getting variability in flavor from different pitch rates - haven't looked into that much. As long as it tastes good and attenuates reasonably I'm happy!

Not sure I follow...are you saying you'd pitch 1 pack into 3L, split the 3L into 3 1L bottles, pitch two of those at high krausen the next day and let one finish out before storing for the next batch?

 

[stickyfinger]

I pitch one pack into as much wort as I need for whatever I am doing, which is usually 2-4L of wort (for 1-3 batches of beer with one harvest volume). So, if I were making a 10G batch of beer, I'd make a 3L starter the day before the brew and get it spinning in an Erlenmeyer flask. After my brew the next day is finished, when my beer is in the fermentation kegs and ready to pitch, I'd take the 3L starter and pour off 1L of it into my sterile jar and then pour that into the first keg. I'd do that again for the second keg and then finally pour the rest of the starter into the sterile jar and let that rest a day before chilling down for future use. You can plan your starter start time if you want, but I usually just do it like 12-18 hrs before I will be ready to pitch it.

Not sure I follow...are you saying you'd pitch 1 pack into 3L, split the 3L into 3 1L bottles, pitch two of those at high krausen the next day and let one finish out before storing for the next batch?

 

[leesmith]

Yeah i mentioned keg hopping only but there would still be a decent amount of whirlpool hops in there most likely and my recent process with these beers is only a single dry hop in the primary. I don't like the beer sitting on hops for extended periods in the keg and I also don't like using filters when DHing.

That yeast pictured came from a beer with three ounces in the whirlpool....from a 2.5 gallon batch of beer. Whirlfloc at 5 min, do whatever whirlpool you want, and let settle before racking to a fermentor.

Didn’t you post a picture where you were purging two kegs off the fermenter?
Push from primary to a dry hop keg to a serving keg.
Of course you’d have to bag the hops.....this may be too much like a filter to you though.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[Hannabrew]

Yeah I have the kegs to do it I just prefer not to rack another time.

 

[Hannabrew]

I pitch one pack into as much wort as I need for whatever I am doing, which is usually 2-4L of wort (for 1-3 batches of beer with one harvest volume). So, if I were making a 10G batch of beer, I'd make a 3L starter the day before the brew and get it spinning in an Erlenmeyer flask. After my brew the next day is finished, when my beer is in the fermentation kegs and ready to pitch, I'd take the 3L starter and pour off 1L of it into my sterile jar and then pour that into the first keg. I'd do that again for the second keg and then finally pour the rest of the starter into the sterile jar and let that rest a day before chilling down for future use. You can plan your starter start time if you want, but I usually just do it like 12-18 hrs before I will be ready to pitch it.

I think this is what I would do. 2 liter starter and pitch half of it at high krausen and let the other half finish out to store for the next batch.

 

[stickyfinger]

I think this is what I would do. 2 liter starter and pitch half of it at high krausen and let the other half finish out to store for the next batch.

try it out. you'll love it! fresh, active yeast substitute for a large cell count in many cases i think.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I have the kegs to do it I just prefer not to rack another time.

I’m with you here. A $10 yeast pack isn’t worth another rack to me. Rather buy a new one each time if that’s the case.

But Like @stickyfinger I would just over rebuild a starter or rebuild a left over one

 

[leesmith]

I think this is what I would do. 2 liter starter and pitch half of it at high krausen and let the other half finish out to store for the next batch.

Nice....that works good....done it many times.

Yeah another rack isn’t perfect (good enough for my house though)...just trying to help you with a version of Braufessor’s technique.

 

[troglodytes]

Ignore me if this is the wrong place for this question, but I think it may be relevant as I want to employ the same practices I should be using with my NEIPA (my next batch) with the Red IPA I'm currently working on.

This has to do with large dry hops, restarting fermentation and cleaning up diacetyl.

First off, I made a mistake in cold crashing too soon. I'm used to my yeast being done fast and I can usually judge a beers done-ness based on timing. I am however, using a new yeast to me (WY1272) and I fermented on the low end (64-66F) for about 9 days. I under pitched an active starter (possible first mistake). And in attempts to mitigate O2 I never opened to take a gravity reading(second mistake for assuming). I dry hopped on day 9 after soft crashing from 66F to 58F, and at the same time took a gravity reading only to find out that the beer has a little diacetyl (its not that bad but just enough to taste) and it is only at 1.020 from 1.057.

The slightly higher gravity is not my worry as a Red IPA, the sweetness is more welcomed than in other IPA varieties, but it was brewed sort of as if it were a NEIPA, just with more Rye/crystal, etc. This thing is getting 8 oz of dry hops, and in dry hopping and warming to 61F it is apparent that fermentation has found some new vigor. Now from what I've heard of hop creep, the pH should rise with that amount of hops, and with the O2 (albeit a small amount) introduced while dry hopping, more diacetyl should be produced.

So finally here's the question. The DH is in and the beer is sitting at the cool range of the yeast, a lot of which has flocced out with the soft crash. Do I raise the temp to 68-70F in hopes there is enough yeast to do a D-rest? Or do I let the hops ride in a cool environment as there isn't enough yeast left to do a true D-rest in order to maintain the best hop aroma and flavor?

 

[Dgallo]

Ignore me if this is the wrong place for this question, but I think it may be relevant as I want to employ the same practices I should be using with my NEIPA (my next batch) with the Red IPA I'm currently working on.

This has to do with large dry hops, restarting fermentation and cleaning up diacetyl.

First off, I made a mistake in cold crashing too soon. I'm used to my yeast being done fast and I can usually judge a beers done-ness based on timing. I am however, using a new yeast to me (WY1272) and I fermented on the low end (64-66F) for about 9 days. I under pitched an active starter (possible first mistake). And in attempts to mitigate O2 I never opened to take a gravity reading(second mistake for assuming). I dry hopped on day 9 after soft crashing from 66F to 58F, and at the same time took a gravity reading only to find out that the beer has a little diacetyl (its not that bad but just enough to taste) and it is only at 1.020 from 1.057.

The slightly higher gravity is not my worry as a Red IPA, the sweetness is more welcomed than in other IPA varieties, but it was brewed sort of as if it were a NEIPA, just with more Rye/crystal, etc. This thing is getting 8 oz of dry hops, and in dry hopping and warming to 61F it is apparent that fermentation has found some new vigor. Now from what I've heard of hop creep, the pH should rise with that amount of hops, and with the O2 (albeit a small amount) introduced while dry hopping, more diacetyl should be produced.

So finally here's the question. The DH is in and the beer is sitting at the cool range of the yeast, a lot of which has flocced out with the soft crash. Do I raise the temp to 68-70F in hopes there is enough yeast to do a D-rest? Or do I let the hops ride in a cool environment as there isn't enough yeast left to do a true D-rest in order to maintain the best hop aroma and flavor?

Since you know your mistakes I won’t mention those. What did you mash at? 1.020 seems high for a 1.057 unless you mashed at like 158-160. If you mash lower than that, you def did not hit your fg. Try warming it up, should still be enough yeast to finish your points or at the very least clean it up. You could also pitch a champagne yeast to finish it off if you so choose.

 

[leesmith]

Ignore me if this is the wrong place for this question, but I think it may be relevant as I want to employ the same practices I should be using with my NEIPA (my next batch) with the Red IPA I'm currently working on.

This has to do with large dry hops, restarting fermentation and cleaning up diacetyl.

First off, I made a mistake in cold crashing too soon. I'm used to my yeast being done fast and I can usually judge a beers done-ness based on timing. I am however, using a new yeast to me (WY1272) and I fermented on the low end (64-66F) for about 9 days. I under pitched an active starter (possible first mistake). And in attempts to mitigate O2 I never opened to take a gravity reading(second mistake for assuming). I dry hopped on day 9 after soft crashing from 66F to 58F, and at the same time took a gravity reading only to find out that the beer has a little diacetyl (its not that bad but just enough to taste) and it is only at 1.020 from 1.057.

The slightly higher gravity is not my worry as a Red IPA, the sweetness is more welcomed than in other IPA varieties, but it was brewed sort of as if it were a NEIPA, just with more Rye/crystal, etc. This thing is getting 8 oz of dry hops, and in dry hopping and warming to 61F it is apparent that fermentation has found some new vigor. Now from what I've heard of hop creep, the pH should rise with that amount of hops, and with the O2 (albeit a small amount) introduced while dry hopping, more diacetyl should be produced.

So finally here's the question. The DH is in and the beer is sitting at the cool range of the yeast, a lot of which has flocced out with the soft crash. Do I raise the temp to 68-70F in hopes there is enough yeast to do a D-rest? Or do I let the hops ride in a cool environment as there isn't enough yeast left to do a true D-rest in order to maintain the best hop aroma and flavor?

Once you have crashed the yeast, the diacetyl precursors are locked in.

I doubt warming it back up will help much. Even if it’s still on the cake. But you could try (I say this because of the gravity points you have left which may be enough to get the yeast active again) and if the diacetyl doesn’t go away....

Research indicates Krausening will clean up diacetyl.

So...krausen to carbonate the beer. The fresh yeast will clean it up and carbonate it.