Environmental Impact of Homebrewing

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+1 on composting with grains.

And do NOT use rain water collected from a shingled roof. TOXIC metals will be leached into the water. In fact, you aren't even supposed to water your plants with it.
 
ghpeel said:
+1 on composting with grains.

And do NOT use rain water collected from a shingled roof. TOXIC metals will be leached into the water. In fact, you aren't even supposed to water your plants with it.
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I've never heard this before. Where are the toxic metals supposed to be coming from? Lots of people collect rainwater runoff from their roofs and use it on their plants and gardens and I have not heard of any problems. What is your source for this information? The only metal I can think of used on a shingled roof would be the galvanized nails. I suppose they could leach minuscule amounts of zinc into the water, but really can't see that as being a TOXICITY hazard. The shingles themselves are usually a composite of fiberglass and asphalt with a topping of some kind of mineral like garnet. Nothing that I would be alarmed about. The run off is usually headed into the ground and I think the EPA would be on that like right now.
 
I participated in a professional seminar on building worm bins yesterday, and the presented mentioned that worms love whole grains. I asked her if they would like spent brewing grains and she mentioned that her old employer used to have spent grains from a local brewery delivered to them to use in both their compost and, especially, their worm bins.

I'm considering building one to keep in the basement for kitchen vegetable scraps and spent grains. She stated that, if used correctly, there should be no noticeable smell. Also, the worm castings that are gathered periodically can be mixed with peat or something like it and used to make amazing potting soil. They can also be used directly as a fertilizer with Miracle-Gro characteristics, but without worrying about overuse (nitrogen burn, etc.). A 'tea' can also be made from the castings, which can be used as a natural pest repellent. I wonder if this would work on hops plants?

I'm getting more information and will post when I get it, if others might be interested.
 
Coprinus said:
The deeper I get into this hobby, the more I become aware that it isn't the most sustainable activity I could be involved in.
The fuel used for growing and transporting the main ingredients, especially if they are imported, are one problem, while the more obvious one is all the water that I use.
Has anyone thought about these issues, and if so, are there any ideas about ways to soften the environmental blow of brewing a batch of the good stuff?
What do hip breweries like New Belgium and Rouge do?
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Here in L.A. water has always been a commodity. This year we are on drought watch anyways so water is pricey and controlled. For this reason I recycle as much as I can. I syphon my cooling water into 5 gal buckets and use it to water my plants and vegetation. I also plan keg cleaning around brewing so I can syphon (with a different hose mind you) my fermenters idophor water to freshly cleaned kegs. 5 gallons can go a long way if you plan it right.

It's not much but I'm probably recyling upwards of 25 gallons a month that would have otherwise gone to the sewer.

As far as the impact of the hops and grains I can't imagine the few lbs I go through a month would make much of a difference.
 
jbambuti said:
I participated in a professional seminar on building worm bins yesterday, and the presented mentioned that worms love whole grains. I asked her if they would like spent brewing grains and she mentioned that her old employer used to have spent grains from a local brewery delivered to them to use in both their compost and, especially, their worm bins.

I'm considering building one to keep in the basement for kitchen vegetable scraps and spent grains. She stated that, if used correctly, there should be no noticeable smell. Also, the worm castings that are gathered periodically can be mixed with peat or something like it and used to make amazing potting soil. They can also be used directly as a fertilizer with Miracle-Gro characteristics, but without worrying about overuse (nitrogen burn, etc.). A 'tea' can also be made from the castings, which can be used as a natural pest repellent. I wonder if this would work on hops plants?

I'm getting more information and will post when I get it, if others might be interested.
Click to expand...

these teas can be made from finished compost as well. put 1 cup of compost/castings in a 2qt mason jar, top with water and shake vigourously, let set to settle particulates and then strain into a spray bottle. use this on plants that show aphid or other leaf eating pests and make sure to spray the undersides of the leafs also.
 
Catt22 said:
What is your source for this information?
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Check out the thread here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/using-rainwater-brewing-142758/index2.html#post1629112

And also the info I quote is from here:
http://home.comcast.net/~leavesdance/rainbarrels/safety.html

Basically, it scared the dog piss outa me. Me and my girlfriend do organic raised-bed gardens and one of the first things we learned is that you can't use rain water from a shingle roof for ANYTHING. Even putting it on your compost heap is a no-no.

If you have a tin or ceramic tile roof, its a different story, but not necessarily safe either.
 
About water - I've lived my whole life in the midwest where we don't worry too much about water (or maybe we don't worry enough). But I'm always struck when I talk with folks from the west how important water conservation is to them.

Currently, I just let my cleaning water, rinse water, and chilling water run down the drain or into the ground.

The current plan is to put in a rain barrel - I think I'll run my chill water output straight into the rain barrel and reuse it for gardening, etc.

Do folks do anything with their cleaning and rinse water? How do you reuse it, since its got oxiclean or whatever residue in it?

Also, just a quick word of thanks to all the folks who have posted info on this thread - I appreciate your experiences and insights!
 
Pappers said:
About water - I've lived my whole life in the midwest where we don't worry too much about water (or maybe we don't worry enough). But I'm always struck when I talk with folks from the west how important water conservation is to them.
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Yeah it is a pain to have to worry about. I live in colorado. Most of the water for the four corners, utah, and nevada come from Colorado. The colorado river supplies water to 4 of 5 fastest growing states in the country.(population) Every drop of water is accounted for before it even hits the ground. Water lawyers thrive in our area. Before this summer it was illegal to capture rain water. You could be fined for having a rain barrel. That law has changed. You can now have one for personal use if you can prove how and why you are using it.

I am also a kayaker, so water issues have become important for me in other ways too. Now that I brew I certainly have it in the back of my head. I am trying to find ways to improve my process. This weekend I soaked bottles in oxyclean to get the labels off. I keep the water in the cooler added ice and used it to recirculate for cooling the beer I made this weekend. I dumped my cleaning water in there as well after cleaning my fermenter and kettle.

I just try to do my part. If it doesn't snow we do not have water. Lucky for us the last year or two have been good winters.
 
ImperialLover said:
Seriously? We're worried about the environmental effects of home brewing?! Of all the crap people can cut down on, we're talking about this...
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Yes, seriously. Those who care about the effect they have on the environment consider the impact in most everything they do.
 
Those who consider the minimal impact on the environment typically don't consider any impact on more important things. (We're past beer and I apologize for the wasted space)
 
ImperialLover said:
Those who consider the minimal impact on the environment typically don't consider any impact on more important things. (We're past beer and I apologize for the wasted space)
Click to expand...

That's an arrogant perspective filled with assumptions -- almost as though you were being intentionally insulting.

This should probably be moved to debates or be shut down as it is just going to get ugly if this is the start of the roll downhill.
 
Nope.
People have been warned.

If you can't keep it non-political and you can't go with the flow, your comments will be deleted and/or you'll be asked to leave.

This is supposed to be an adult beverage hobby, presumably practices by adults with reading comprehension.
 
Doesn't seem like there is a whole lot you can do when brewing in an apartment. Here are some of the things I try to do:

1. Now that it's time to put the heat on, I turn the heat wayyyy down a couple hours before brewing and benefit from the extra heat from my kitchen during the boil.
2. I've always composted the grain but at my new apartment I don't have a place to compost. I DO however make doggie treats - my hubby thought they were cookies and tried to eat them.
3. Since I'm stuck with kitchen brewing and boiling my wort in two pots on the stove, I do an ice bath in my double sink which is quicker and uses less water than my wort chiller.
4. I use 5 gallons of santizer water per brew session and try to plan so that I don't have to mix any extra.
5. Cleaning things right after use saves water! Rinse your bottles well immediately after use and you will save time and water! Simply balancing good stewardship of your time, possessions and the world around you will save resources.

I second the request for any tips for reusing sanitizer water!!! Does anyone out there use a greywater system for flushing toilets or other uses? I'm wondering if there are easy/cheap ways to create a greywater system without having to reroute plumbing. Calling all engineers!

Seems like in a lot of ways, practical and philosophical discussion of any topic often do belong in the same place. However I applaud the fact that the people posting on this thread who are in favor of minimizing the environmental impact of their brewing have kept it largely practical. IMO, that lends credibility to the whole topic. Keep the ideas coming.
 
Easy gray water... Take 5 gallon buckets of gray water into bathroom. No need to do this when a yellow movement occurs as that is just wasteful. Any self respecting environmentalist would have the usual amonia/urea odor to their bathroom. When a brown usage occurs, lift tank lid and dump half of 5 gallon gray water in. This should clear the bowl without using 1.6 gallons of clear water.

I'm not an environmentalist but live in Florida. This was standard operating procedure when water gets knocked out by a hurricane. Easy to adopt though and no plumber needed.

If you were real adventuresome you could freeze the gray water in LDPE bottles, sanitize the exteriors on the next brew day and drop them in the pot to chill.

katja said:
Doesn't seem like there is a whole lot you can do when brewing in an apartment. Here are some of the things I try to do:

1. Now that it's time to put the heat on, I turn the heat wayyyy down a couple hours before brewing and benefit from the extra heat from my kitchen during the boil.
2. I've always composted the grain but at my new apartment I don't have a place to compost. I DO however make doggie treats - my hubby thought they were cookies and tried to eat them.
3. Since I'm stuck with kitchen brewing and boiling my wort in two pots on the stove, I do an ice bath in my double sink which is quicker and uses less water than my wort chiller.
4. I use 5 gallons of santizer water per brew session and try to plan so that I don't have to mix any extra.
5. Cleaning things right after use saves water! Rinse your bottles well immediately after use and you will save time and water! Simply balancing good stewardship of your time, possessions and the world around you will save resources.

I second the request for any tips for reusing sanitizer water!!! Does anyone out there use a greywater system for flushing toilets or other uses? I'm wondering if there are easy/cheap ways to create a greywater system without having to reroute plumbing. Calling all engineers!

Seems like in a lot of ways, practical and philosophical discussion of any topic often do belong in the same place. However I applaud the fact that the people posting on this thread who are in favor of minimizing the environmental impact of their brewing have kept it largely practical. IMO, that lends credibility to the whole topic. Keep the ideas coming.
Click to expand...
 
jkarp said:
I had no kids so I brew guilt free!

A parents' carbon footprint multiplies 5.7 times per child.
Click to expand...

A lot of great stuff in this thread. There are obviously a lot of people who are knowledgeable about environmental issues. However, the post above (the shortest, I believe) is the most relevant.

Virtually all of the "crisis" issues that are constantly cycled (and recycled - HA!) through the media all have one thing at their root: too many two-leggers (and I don't mean birds) consuming resources, occupying more and more risky real estate, etc. and so forth.

Deal with reducing human population, and all these issues go away, or move farther into the future where they can be dealt with.

Allow the human population to rise, or even remain at current levels, then all the "green" strategies I've ever read about just buy a little more time before the day of reckoning.

The Chinese, who have had more experience than anyone in the past 30 years with attempting to control population, made this point a few weeks ago in Copenhagen...although I think it mostly fell on deaf ears.

Note1: I include no "Star Trek" technology or theoretical solutions of any kind, including things like hydrogen cars (that we may see about the same time as cold fusion), and regard them as outside this kind of discussion.

Note2: I have 3 children and 3 grandchildren, so I'm not just a childless person yanking everyone's chain.
 
i use the Colorado malting company's 2 row... the malt house is 20 miles from my parents house and stock up when i visit. local hops off cl for aromatics. use 20 gallons of total water per 5 gallon batch 7.5 for beer rest for cleanup and cooling cooling water goes in to the washer and cleaning water goes into the dishwasher. slant yeast. i don't have any way to compost right now as im in a apartment.
 
That's great! I would very much like to purchase local malt and hops, that would be great! Am still looking for some local hops farmers.


jppostKW said:
i use the Colorado malting company's 2 row... the malt house is 20 miles from my parents house and stock up when i visit. local hops off cl for aromatics. use 20 gallons of total water per 5 gallon batch 7.5 for beer rest for cleanup and cooling cooling water goes in to the washer and cleaning water goes into the dishwasher. slant yeast. i don't have any way to compost right now as im in a apartment.
Click to expand...
 
jppostKW said:
i use the Colorado malting company's 2 row... the malt house is 20 miles from my parents house and stock up when i visit. local hops off cl for aromatics. use 20 gallons of total water per 5 gallon batch 7.5 for beer rest for cleanup and cooling cooling water goes in to the washer and cleaning water goes into the dishwasher. slant yeast. i don't have any way to compost right now as im in a apartment.
Click to expand...

Compost is simply rotting garbage. Why not smell like a hippy and make a statement in your apartment? I'm sure you could just toss the spent grain out the window and yell compost at the offended passers by.
 
Dr_Gordon_Freeman said:
OK, I think this thread is the point where we can clearly recognize that environmentalist scare tactics have gotten completely out of hand.
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BeerCrazy said:
Compost is simply rotting garbage. Why not smell like a hippy and make a statement in your apartment? I'm sure you could just toss the spent grain out the window and yell compost at the offended passers by.
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Really?

Since when has frugality, thrift, and respect for resources, in a way that was once common and that most of our grandparents would be proud of, so offensive?

OT to the OP, but had to be said... I'll STFU now...
 
khanti said:
Really?

Since when has frugality, thrift, and respect for resources, in a way that was once common and that most of our grandparents would be proud of, so offensive?

OT to the OP, but had to be said... I'll STFU now...
Click to expand...

Being frugal and mindful has nothing to do with worrying about the "environmental impact" of brewing.

Are you worried about the environmental impact of baking bread or cooking a casserole?

If you are concerned about such things, start with something that is actually impacting the environment.
 
Doc and others, this isn't a thread in the debate forum about your views of environmentalism. Rather, it's a thread for those who are interested in conservation and "green" brewing to share information, tips, ideas.

The problem with debating in this thread is that it derails the conversation. As an analogy - I hate smoked beers, I don't understand how anyone can like them. If someone starts a thread about how to brew smoked beers and people are talking about the topic, but I come in and post vociferiously about how hideous smoked beers are and how anyone who brews them must be an idiot, what I'm really doing is derailing a thread with off-topic noise.

So, I think it would be great to go to the debate forum and start yet another thread debating environmentalism. This thread, in a beer forum, is for sharing info , experiences, and ideas regarding brewing with an eye to conservation and awareness of the environment.

Thanks!

Dr_Gordon_Freeman said:
Being frugal and mindful has nothing to do with worrying about the "environmental impact" of brewing.

Are you worried about the environmental impact of baking bread or cooking a casserole?

If you are concerned about such things, start with something that is actually impacting the environment.
Click to expand...
 
Back on topic :)

I'm curious about whether anyone here submits bottles to the annual organic brewing competition? A challenge for me is that I use organic base malt, but sometimes (well, often) use non-organic specialty malts, because I don't want to pay to have them shipped from California. I think that means that my beers wouldn't qualify for the competition.

Or maybe I should take my base grain and spend the time to make my own specialty grains from it? Make up 5 lbs of crystal 40 and some roasted barley malt, to start.

Those are the aspects I'm balancing: 1) desire to brew organic beers, 2) a desire to keep costs down, 3) a desire to use more locally available ingredients, and 4) convenience/laziness.
 
Pappers said:
Back on topic :)

I'm curious about whether anyone here submits bottles to the annual organic brewing competition? A challenge for me is that I use organic base malt, but sometimes (well, often) use non-organic specialty malts, because I don't want to pay to have them shipped from California. I think that means that my beers wouldn't qualify for the competition.

Or maybe I should take my base grain and spend the time to make my own specialty grains from it? Make up 5 lbs of crystal 40 and some roasted barley malt, to start.

Those are the aspects I'm balancing: 1) desire to brew organic beers, 2) a desire to keep costs down, 3) a desire to use more locally available ingredients, and 4) convenience/laziness.
Click to expand...

Trying to avoid introducing noise...

The OP was about environmentally friendly and conversationalist brewing techniques. You might want to do more research on the "organic" side if you think it is more environmentally friendly. It may be better for your body, but so are full-sized gas guzzling cars if you get in a wreck. Organic agriculture destroys farmland. Technology has allowed for no-till agriculture through no-till practices. A modern farmer doesn't want to use anymore chemicals then necessary simply because of cost. Don't drink the Kool-Aide! Organic NOT EQUAL Environmental.
 
Beer Crazy, please don't take this the wrong way, I don't doubt your motives or that I would enjoy having a beer with you. But I don't care about your opinions about organics, climate change, recycling, or clubbing baby seals. I don't go in the debate forum because I really don't care about your opinions about those or a host of other issues.

I am interested in hearing from other brewers who use organic grains and hops on issues like availability, or cost, or making/growing their own.

But I officially quit. It is clear that this conversation just cannot happen without others hijacking the conversation with off-topic, debate forum worthy commentary.

It's very disappointing.
 
what? the original post was about eco-friendly and sustainable brewing, not organic brewing.

maybe start an organic brewing thread? :confused:
 
Pappers said:
I am interested in hearing from other brewers who use organic grains and hops on issues like availability, or cost, or making/growing their own.
Click to expand...

So start you own thread instead of hijacking this one. Besides, you'd probably get more responses and better quality ones. Not all environmentalists pay $5 for a dozen eggs from special chickens. Why not target your audience?

Pappers said:
But I officially quit. It is clear that this conversation just cannot happen without others hijacking the conversation with off-topic, debate forum worthy commentary.

It's very disappointing.
Click to expand...

Pot calling the kettle black.
 
with one solitary exception: Water , once used, doesn't go anywhere on a planetary scale.

You can contaminate it and dump it and eventually it finds itself back into an aquifer fresh and clean so long as you didn't contaminate it with intimately bonded VOCs. Even then they break down. So, once we stopped pouring industrial pollutants into the water, it really did clean itself up. The trick of course is not to pollute it any more.

It's an issue ( sort of) when water is transported from one aquifer to some other place. This is done in the desert cities of CA, Boston, NY etc., where water is taken from an aquifer ( in LA's case very far away) and then, when used, dumped in the ocean. A trend that has seen dramatic reversals in recent years. Most cities no longer funnel waste water into the ocean. I think Boston, and NY, Miami, WPB and others still dump storm drains in the ocean.

Another such instance is pumping from one aquifer aspirated into the atmosphere where some falls back as agricultural irrigation, but a fair amount evaporates and is carried away by the air and deposited elsewhere - in someone else's aquifer - and then when the plants transpire they give of yet more water to the air. The amount of water plants like corn transpire per acre is astonishing.

All this water falls back to earth, but there is no reason to think that it will return locally. On the flip side of course is that the same thing is happening with water elsewhere so it's a big game of around the barn under the tree and so forth.

The water that is precipitates and is dumped in the ocean also finds it's way back as fresh water in the form of precipitation.

Some people live in places where water is a local problem such as South California, Arizona, Australia, lots of Africa and east orient - yadda yadda. But then there are places like the north east US where we are literally drowning in excess water. It's so intense that most north east states have riparian legal doctrines that treat water as "common enemy."

The up shot is that water crisis that are felt in some narrow local region like S California end up generating misconceptions that cause legislation to be passed that might make sense in LA don't make any sense in NJ.

My water table is so high and intense that no matter where I dig a hole (with a shovel) on my 6 acres I always end up hitting water.
Try that in LA. Yet here in soggy swampy rainy NJ we still have the whole plethora of regulations from the Fed that make absolutely no sense.

That one exception I mentioned, is where water is broken down at the molecular level and consumed as fuel.
Oddly the exact same people who will encourage that absolute and total destruction of water (insisting that it is unlimited) are the same people who, out of the other side of their mouths claiming there's a crisis.


I ain't buying any of it.
 
Maybe the big impact of home brewing comes from the drinking of the product. I know I sure do pee a lot more after a few beers. Think of the impact on the sewage system after a heavy night of beer consumption. I guess I could just pee on my compost pile, I hear it is a good source of Nitrogen.
 
BeerCrazy said:
Trying to avoid introducing noise...

Organic agriculture destroys farmland.
Technology has allowed for no-till agriculture through no-till practices. A modern farmer doesn't want to use anymore chemicals then necessary simply because of cost.
Click to expand...

Okay I might be stepping in a load of crazy-- but I have waders
How does Organic Agriculture destroy farmland?
Yeah it takes more land and more inputs but destruction?

Also Urine-- NPK ratio in urine is 12 - 1.1 – 3.3
So very useful for lettuce and corn. And with its nitrogen it is an activator for a carbon rich compost.
Compost is a complex mixture governed by time and temperature oxygen and balance. Like beer
No one has mentioned the best composters-- chickens! Sure goats and pigs are great but if you want to turn scraps to eggs and meat and never want to see a sowbug or earwig or grasshopper again-- chickens.
And they love spent grains like crack! My chickens get beyond excited if you go out back and move the propane tank. Never even mind when they smell the wort-- like crack whores running around and preening.

BTW barley is a great crop for water usage and lack of expensive inputs unlike corn or rice. Dryland barley is very good crop for our area

And when we find a deer we don't shoot a picture.....
 

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