BrewersBest - American IPA(BIAB) How to reduce bitterness?

[gregmosu]

I brewed this up a little over a month ago and while I like it, I'd like to dial the bitterness down just a bit. Here are the hop additions:

Hops:
1 oz. Simcoe - at the start
2 oz. Amarillo - w/15 min left and 10 min left.
1.5 oz. Cascade - for dry hopping.

Recipe: http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1088 2014 BIAB IPA Recipe.pdf

I need to also mention that I didn't use a nylon bag. I tossed the hops in and did my best to strain them out. This may be why the hops are too strong. If not, how can dial down the bitterness w/out ruining it?

 

[ErieShores]

By start you mean 60 minutes? If you want to reduce the biterness, add the hops later in the boil or add less.

 

[gregmosu]

Yes, it's a 60 min boil. Should I focus on the Simcoe hops only? Maybe add then a little later in the boil and/or reduce the amount?

 

[craigmw]

I brewed this up a little over a month ago and while I like it, I'd like to dial the bitterness down just a bit. Here are the hop additions:

Hops:
1 oz. Simcoe - at the start
2 oz. Amarillo - w/15 min left and 10 min left.
1.5 oz. Cascade - for dry hopping.

Recipe: http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1088 2014 BIAB IPA Recipe.pdf

I need to also mention that I didn't use a nylon bag. I tossed the hops in and did my best to strain them out. This may be why the hops are too strong. If not, how can dial down the bitterness w/out ruining it?

What's your water look like? If you have high sulfate (SO4), you may need to add some calcium chloride to better balance the SO4:Cl ratio to reduce bitterness. Burton on Trent water is noted for its high sulfates and hardness, which lend to improved bitterness, but I find a little CaCl2 helps my own high sulfate water to tame hop bitterness and emphasize a little malt backbone in my IPAs.

 

[CA_Mouse]

I brewed this up a little over a month ago and while I like it, I'd like to dial the bitterness down just a bit. Here are the hop additions:

Hops:
1 oz. Simcoe - at the start
2 oz. Amarillo - w/15 min left and 10 min left.
1.5 oz. Cascade - for dry hopping.

Recipe: http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1088 2014 BIAB IPA Recipe.pdf

I need to also mention that I didn't use a nylon bag. I tossed the hops in and did my best to strain them out. This may be why the hops are too strong. If not, how can dial down the bitterness w/out ruining it?

Not using a hop bag will be better in the end as you will get better isomerization. You can try using the Amarillo all at flame out, that will lessen the amount of IBUs that you get, which will cut some of the bitterness and give you more flavor and aroma. Or you can cut the Simcoe down to .75 ounce and add the .25 ounce at flameout.

I've started only doing flame out and bittering additions for all of my IPAs, they tend to have a longer lasting flavor and aroma.

 

[kev211]

Not using a hop bag will be better in the end as you will get better isomerization. You can try using the Amarillo all at flame out, that will lessen the amount of IBUs that you get, which will cut some of the bitterness and give you more flavor and aroma. Or you can cut the Simcoe down to .75 ounce and add the .25 ounce at flameout.

I've started only doing flame out and bittering additions for all of my IPAs, they tend to have a longer lasting flavor and aroma.

I was gonna say the same thing. I would keep the simcoe at 60min and add the Amarillo at flameout. With 2 oz of hops in the boil even for 15 mins you're still gonna pull some bitterness from them. At flameout you'll get all the nice Amarillo flavor without the bitterness

 

[Mer-man]

A hop bag will only lessen isomerization if it impedes wort movement through the hops.

 

[jahdub]

I doubt a hop bag makes a difference either way, but saying not to use it because it lowers isomerization doesn't make sense. He wants less isomerization, anyway.

 

[Bosh]

Move some hops to a hop stand? Maybe throw them in after boil once the wort has cooles down a bit and let em steep. I put my hop stand hops in when my wort had cooled to 180 and let em sit for 40 minutes in my last beer.

 

[kev211]

My past few ipas I've started adding the aroma hops straight to the carboy and pour the wort on them. Seems to mellow the bitterness and smooth the ipa out a lot

 

[gregmosu]

Thanks for all the advice! I'm going to try combining a few ideas and give it a shot this weekend.

 

[jason.mundy]

I am wondering how long it takes you to cool down your wort after flame out. I can't remember the exact number, but I believe that you want to get your wort down to 170F as soon as possible to stop your flavor and aroma hops from turning into bittering hops.

If it takes you a long time to cool your wort, consider an immersion chiller... or save your late hops to use for dry hopping.

 

[brewprint]

I would just cut that 15 minute addition to 5. That should make a big difference right there and make it more flavorful as far as hops go.

You did a full volume boil I assume?

Also you could reduce the Simcoe at the beginning and swap it out for the end.

Either way I'm surprised you say this beer is too bitter. I put way more hops and IBUs in my IPAs than this and there's barely any bitterness. Of course I used to think a beer like this would taste bitter. I have an pale ale that was supposed to be an IPA that has 100 IBUs and I can finally taste some bitterness. That's only because I only hit 60% efficiency though.

Drink a few and you won't want to decrease the IBU. I can assure you.

 

[Yooper]

What's your water look like? If you have high sulfate (SO4), you may need to add some calcium chloride to better balance the SO4:Cl ratio to reduce bitterness. Burton on Trent water is noted for its high sulfates and hardness, which lend to improved bitterness, but I find a little CaCl2 helps my own high sulfate water to tame hop bitterness and emphasize a little malt backbone in my IPAs.

That's not so. Adding calcium chloride doesn't "erase" bitterness in the beer.

That's like saying adding sugar to your mash potatoes makes them less salty if you oversalt them.

It does bring a fullness or "roundess" to the flavor, but it won't make his too-bitter beer less better.

The S04/CL ratio is a load of bunk. Here's why- say you have 200 ppm of chloride and 400 ppm of sulfate- that's 2:1, but the beer would be mostly undrinkable. If you have 20 ppm of chloride and 40 ppm of sulfate, that's also a 2:1 ratio, but the amounts are so miniscule to not even matter.

If you're going to increase the sulfate, and hence the perception of dryness and possibly bitterness, that's fine. But it has nothing to do with the ratio of the amount of chloride.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic but I didn't want anybody to think dumping a load of Burton's salts in a beer is a good idea, or that adding calcium chloride will fix a too-bitter beer.

In this case, simply reducing the simcoe at 60 minutes to .75 ounce instead of 1 ounce may be all that's needed, and will work quite well.

 

[craigmw]

This could be my own mis-interpretation of Martin Brugard's descriptions of the impacts of sulfate and chloride ions on beer flavors, compounded by Brewersfriend's water chemistry calculator (which provides qualitative phrases like "balanced" or "highly bitter" based on SO4:Cl ratios). I also agree that a likely culprit is the hop additions in this recipe. Nevertheless, I still think it is valid to address the potential that the brewing water could be a problem. In my case, our water here in Southern California is very alkaline and with high sulfates, which means that I usually use distilled/RO for lagers and lighter ales.

That's not so. Adding calcium chloride doesn't "erase" bitterness in the beer.

That's like saying adding sugar to your mash potatoes makes them less salty if you oversalt them.

It does bring a fullness or "roundess" to the flavor, but it won't make his too-bitter beer less better.

The S04/CL ratio is a load of bunk. Here's why- say you have 200 ppm of chloride and 400 ppm of sulfate- that's 2:1, but the beer would be mostly undrinkable. If you have 20 ppm of chloride and 40 ppm of sulfate, that's also a 2:1 ratio, but the amounts are so miniscule to not even matter.

If you're going to increase the sulfate, and hence the perception of dryness and possibly bitterness, that's fine. But it has nothing to do with the ratio of the amount of chloride.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic but I didn't want anybody to think dumping a load of Burton's salts in a beer is a good idea, or that adding calcium chloride will fix a too-bitter beer.

In this case, simply reducing the simcoe at 60 minutes to .75 ounce instead of 1 ounce may be all that's needed, and will work quite well.

 

[Britinusa]

Just plugged this into brewers friend, your IBU's should be 79.9 if you use 1/2 oz of Simcoe in the beginning of the boil you will reduce that to 54 IBU's
Or you can use 1/2 oz at the 30 minute mark, which is still in the range to be an IPA.

 

[Magnus314]

Switch 60 minute hops to first wort hops, and 15 minute to flame out. It'll be great.

 

[gregmosu]

I would just cut that 15 minute addition to 5. That should make a big difference right there and make it more flavorful as far as hops go.

You did a full volume boil I assume?

Also you could reduce the Simcoe at the beginning and swap it out for the end.

Either way I'm surprised you say this beer is too bitter. I put way more hops and IBUs in my IPAs than this and there's barely any bitterness. Of course I used to think a beer like this would taste bitter. I have an pale ale that was supposed to be an IPA that has 100 IBUs and I can finally taste some bitterness. That's only because I only hit 60% efficiency though.

Drink a few and you won't want to decrease the IBU. I can assure you.

I'm not sure I'm describing what's going on properly. I would like to tone down the bitterness just a bit to see what I get, but with this batch, everytime I take a drink, it's like the hops stick to the back of my tongue. I feel like it would have probably turned out a whole lot better had I filtered it.. or something along those lines.

 

[brewprint]

I'm not sure I'm describing what's going on properly. I would like to tone down the bitterness just a bit to see what I get, but with this batch, everytime I take a drink, it's like the hops stick to the back of my tongue. I feel like it would have probably turned out a whole lot better had I filtered it.. or something along those lines.

Time mellows out bitterness. Also I believe that sediment has more bitterness than actual beer. I can't remember if you said you bottled this but I'm guessing so.

I tapped a keg the other night after fermenting for 10 days. I force carbed it 36 hours or so and started to drink it. The first 2 glasses were super bitter and this IPA is only coming in at 75 IBU. After that I can now taste the malt and the beer is solid.

What I'm getting at is sediment can increase bitterness. At least in my experience. Also time can take it away as well.

 

[gregmosu]

Time mellows out bitterness. Also I believe that sediment has more bitterness than actual beer. I can't remember if you said you bottled this but I'm guessing so.

I tapped a keg the other night after fermenting for 10 days. I force carbed it 36 hours or so and started to drink it. The first 2 glasses were super bitter and this IPA is only coming in at 75 IBU. After that I can now taste the malt and the beer is solid.

What I'm getting at is sediment can increase bitterness. At least in my experience. Also time can take it away as well.

I think this was the biggest problem. I'm going to make sure I continue to do a better of filtering my batches.

 

[CA_Mouse]

What I'm getting at is sediment can increase bitterness. At least in my experience. Also time can take it away as well.

Actually this is a very true statement! Yeast that gets racked with the beer will have a bitter taste as well as the bitterness from the hops.

 

[browder]

I drank a version of this back in October and boiled off 9 gallon batch...had to sub out the hops cause couldn't get Amarillo or Simcoes mine is tasting really nice my wife won't leave it alone...l just realized this thread was about the same recipe..hope your next batch turns out as good as mine.

 

[gregmosu]

Actually this is a very true statement! Yeast that gets racked with the beer will have a bitter taste as well as the bitterness from the hops.

Do you do any filtering to get the yeast out or just let it settle out?

I drank a version of this back in October and boiled off 9 gallon batch...had to sub out the hops cause couldn't get Amarillo or Simcoes mine is tasting really nice my wife won't leave it alone...l just realized this thread was about the same recipe..hope your next batch turns out as good as mine.

Thanks! I'm thinking about not doing any dry-hopping this time. Shouldn't change it too much, right?

 

[CA_Mouse]

Do you do any filtering to get the yeast out or just let it settle out?

I don't filter my beer, but I do cold crash all but wheat beers for 2-3 days before I rack it to a keg. I let it settle for a few days while it carbonates and generally pull a pint or two with any remaining debris/trub/yeast that made it to the keg. After that, usually extremely clear beer. I bottle off of the keg for competitions and taking to family and friends.

 

[gregmosu]

I don't filter my beer, but I do cold crash all but wheat beers for 2-3 days before I rack it to a keg. I let it settle for a few days while it carbonates and generally pull a pint or two with any remaining debris/trub/yeast that made it to the keg. After that, usually extremely clear beer. I bottle off of the keg for competitions and taking to family and friends.

Do you re-rack to a secondary before you cold crash?

Also, can you dry hop at the same time you pitch the yeast?? Or will that cause problems w/fermentation? I'm just not a fan of opening up the beer to air until the moment I keg it. I think I infected a batch recently while dry hopping.

 

[m00ps]

Also, can you dry hop at the same time you pitch the yeast?? Or will that cause problems w/fermentation? I'm just not a fan of opening up the beer to air until the moment I keg it. I think I infected a batch recently while dry hopping.

If you dry hop too early into fermentation, most of the aroma escapes out the airlock with the CO2. I would never advise to dry hop before airlock activity has mostly ceased

 

[CA_Mouse]

Do you re-rack to a secondary before you cold crash?

Also, can you dry hop at the same time you pitch the yeast?? Or will that cause problems w/fermentation? I'm just not a fan of opening up the beer to air until the moment I keg it. I think I infected a batch recently while dry hopping.

I never rack to secondary, unless I'm adding fruit, and then sometimes I don't cold crash for that even, since I want a healthy amount of yeast to work on the fruit.

If you dry hop too early into fermentation, most of the aroma escapes out the airlock with the CO2. I would never advise to dry hop before airlock activity has mostly ceased

This^^^. If you dry hop during active fermentation, the aroma will be carried away during the push of CO2. Additionally, the oils from the hops (these are what give the flavor and some aroma) will bind to the yeast causing them to settle out of suspension and not finish their job of eating the sugars. I have never gotten an infection from dry hopping, dry fruiting or dry spicing, most likely that can be attributed to something in the process before you dry hopped (IE: incomplete cleaning, improper sanitization, lid open in a drafty area where spores are allowed to fall into the fermenter).