No carbonation

[Jeffp]

Hello, I'm Jeff and pretty new to brewing and to this form. I have brewed with a friend and done 2 kit beers on my own. The latest one is a hazy IPA. I used spring water and did a water profile to best accommodate a hazy. When getting ready to put the grains in I realized there were only 3 bags of grains and the instructions indicated there were 4. I contacted the company and they said no we confirmed it will be fine with the 3. Long story a little shorter, I brewed it. Followed the directions perfectly even kept air from being in contact with it by using magnets to hold the hops until dsy 4 and day 10. After fermentation I transfered it to a sanitized keg by forcing it with Co2 to avoid oxygen. I tasted it and other than being warm and flat, it didn't tast bad. I started with priming sugar then hooked to Co2 in my kegerator. It's on the third week and if flat and tasts terrible. Any idea where I failed, or was I possibly missing a bag of grain? Not sure what happened.
Pic is when I first keged it.
Thank you,
Jeff

 

[lumpher]

Missing grain wouldn't cause it to be flat. In the picture it looks carbonated. Are the bubbles.just on top and not in the beer? What temp are you storing the beer, and what psi are you carbing it at? How long and what diameter are your beer lines? When you say "tastes terrible", how so... cardboard, sour, very dull, excessively bitter...?

 

[Jeffp]

Yes bubbles are just on top. It looks fantastic but the tast very dull. Wouldn't say like cardboard but just no flavor.
Both lines are 5/16. I originally had the pressure set at about 15 but cranked it up to try to carbonate it. Kegerator is set at 36. Thats as low as it will go. I was very careful to not let oxygen in the keg. But the fact of the matter is it tasts worst now that it did before being kegged. You think it may have oxidized?
Thank you for your response.

 

[Yooper]

Yes bubbles are just on top. It looks fantastic but the tast very dull. Wouldn't say like cardboard but just no flavor.
Both lines are 5/16. I originally had the pressure set at about 15 but cranked it up to try to carbonate it. Kegerator is set at 36. Thats as low as it will go. I was very careful to not let oxygen in the keg. But the fact of the matter is it tasts worst now that it did before being kegged. You think it may have oxidized?
Thank you for your response.

You need 3/16th lines, and about 1 foot for every psi on the regulator to balance the carbonation level and temperature.

15 psi is a pretty high carb level, so you shouldn't need it to be higher, but you'll get foaming like in your picture with short and bigger inner diameter lines.

You don't need priming sugar if you are carbonating with c02, but that's not the issue of course. It just isn't necessary, especially if you put it in the kegerator so cold right away.

As far as the taste now, it could be simply your water. What kind of water did you use? Or the recipe itself could be the issue.

 

[Jeffp]

So the beer and co2 lines should be 3/16? I can change that easy enough. But would that stop it from carbonating?
I used bottled spring water.

 

[mac_1103]

So the beer and co2 lines should be 3/16? I can change that easy enough. But would that stop it from carbonating?

Beer line should be 3/16" or smaller, with the appropriate length to balance carbonation as indicated by @Yooper. Or use an online calculator. At 15 PSI you would need 145 feet of 5/16" beer line to balance the system. I'm going to go way out on a limb and guess that you have a bit less than that.

With 3/16" tubing you only need about 13 feet. With 4 mm (0.1575") EVA Barrier tubing you're down to 5 1/2 feet.

If you have a foamy but undercarbonated pour, the problem may be that the most of the CO2 is coming out of solution because your lines aren't balanced. Increasing the pressure won't solve this because it just throws your system even further out of balance.

CO2 line diameter isn't as important.

I used bottled spring water.

So you know the mineral content you started with to create your water profile?

 

[mac_1103]

I was very careful to not let oxygen in the keg.

Were you as careful to get oxygen out of the keg before you filled it?

 

[Jeffp]

I thought I was. I filled the keg up with sanitizer solution, let it sit for a while, then pushed it out with co2. After it was empty I purged it a few times just in case there was a small amount in the top.
I purchased the kegerator used and it still had co2 in the bottle. No way that it could be bad is there?

 

[Jeffp]

I look up online and found the mineral profile for the brand of spring water I used. About the best I could do without having it tested myself.

Sounds like I need to change out the beer line for sure. Would this prevent the beer from carbonating? Is this batch salvageable or is it junk?

 

[mac_1103]

filled the keg up with sanitizer solution, let it sit for a while, then pushed it out with co2.

That should be fine

I look up online and found the mineral profile for the brand of spring water I used.

and so should that.

Would this prevent the beer from carbonating? Is this batch salvageable or is it junk?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "prevent the beer from carbonating." As I said, I think your beer is carbonated just fine and the foam is CO2 coming out of the beer. If you switch to the correct beer line diameter and length the CO2 will stay in the beer when you pour it.

 

[Jeffp]

Oh ok. Sorry I didn't follow that. I will change out the line and give that a try.

The tast change from after fermentation to now that it has been kegged concerns me that it oxidized? There is no coming back from that correct?

 

[mac_1103]

The tast change from after fermentation to now that it has been kegged concerns me that it oxidized? There is no coming back from that correct?

No there's no coming back. If it is oxidized it will only get worse. And you picked the style that is probably the most susceptible to oxidation of all. The first thing to go is hop aroma and flavor, and then it's downhill from there. There's plenty of good stuff on here about preventing/mitigating oxidation in hazies, so search liberally before you brew again.

But the picture actually looks pretty good and it sounds like you aren't tasting any really off flavors (yet), so I think that if you get the carbonation issue solved and drink it fast it should be at least palatable if not exactly everything you were hoping for.

 

[Jeffp]

Ok. Thank you for your help. I'll maybe go for just an IPA the next round. No hazy

 

[Jeffp]

mac_1103. Changed out the beer lime with a piece of 1/4 inch tubing I had. Carbonation is good now and although beer is a little darker, it is defintly drinkable. Co2 is set at 9 lb and comes out slow.
now the problem i have is it will spit and sputter for a few seconds followed by pure foam, then pour good. Unfortunately its a little late and you get a glass of foam. I ordered a 10' piece of 3/16 and will replace it and see if that fixes it. Any thoughts advice?
Thank you.

 

[mac_1103]

How long is the 1/4" tubing you're using now? Not sure about the sputtering. Does it do that every time? Darkening could be a sign of oxidation.

 

[Jeffp]

The 1/4" tubing is only 6'.
It will do the spit and sputter every time. Even if it's only a couple minutes.