American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[elproducto]

I just used it in the one I posted above. It's not bad, but definitely not as good as I remember.

Man, I'm a filthy skimmer, I didn't even see that.

 

[FringeDweller]

Long time reader, first time poster. I've got Green Check's West Coast IPA is Dead in a secondary keg for dry hopping and tons of diacetyl flavors coming off of it. It's been sitting at 68f for 5 days and then I bumped it up to 70 yesterday. But the diacetyl hasn't gone anywhere. I've also been agitating the cake and I even turned it upside down a couple times.

It's a beautiful beer hiding behind the diacetyl, just no idea on how to get rid of it...

 

[beervoid]

Long time reader, first time poster. I've got Green Check's West Coast IPA is Dead in a secondary keg for dry hopping and tons of diacetyl flavors coming off of it. It's been sitting at 68f for 5 days and then I bumped it up to 70 yesterday. But the diacetyl hasn't gone anywhere. I've also been agitating the cake and I even turned it upside down a couple times.

It's a beautiful beer hiding behind the diacetyl, just no idea on how to get rid of it...

Pitch some fresh yeast in it is your best bet

 

[spersichilli]

Long time reader, first time poster. I've got Green Check's West Coast IPA is Dead in a secondary keg for dry hopping and tons of diacetyl flavors coming off of it. It's been sitting at 68f for 5 days and then I bumped it up to 70 yesterday. But the diacetyl hasn't gone anywhere. I've also been agitating the cake and I even turned it upside down a couple times.

It's a beautiful beer hiding behind the diacetyl, just no idea on how to get rid of it...

maybe consider natural carbonating your been in the keg instead of gas. You're going to need some refermentation in order to have the yeast to uptake the diacetyl

 

[JohnSand]

I just found this thread, looks interesting!

 

[Ulisses4677]

My most recent brew
95% gambrinus pils
5% dextrose
Hops: ctz first wort, Nelson @ knock out,Nelson whirlpool
Nelson dry hop, eclipse spectrum second dry hop and aldc. Super juicy

 

[scrap iron]

I'm enjoying my first West Coast style IPA brewed with Rahr North Star Pils malt. I added around 20% light Munich malt and a half pound of white wheat malt. It is around 66 IBU [Tinseth] with some homegrown Vojvodina hops at FWH and Amarillo, Centennial and Sterling.
Has a nice foam head and very refreshing citrus plus a light spice flavor from the Sterling hops. Tastes great on a hot summer day. I might try this recipe with a Lager yeast next time.
cheers and stay cool out there.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

eclipse spectrum second dry hop

I picked up some spectrum for dry hopping myself. I've been trying to think of the best way to DH with it, limiting DO in the finished product.

The current top two options

1. Pull 10-12oz of finished beer, add spectrum. Use my Co2 purging dry hopper to add the mixture back to the beer. This can help to limit oxygen but im sure there will still be some dissolved in solution.
2. Forget using it for DH, add mid-fermentation using similar process as above and hope that the yeast scrub any newly introduced oxygen.

Curious, what process did you end up using to DH with spectrum?

 

[beervoid]

I picked up some spectrum for dry hopping myself. I've been trying to think of the best way to DH with it, limiting DO in the finished product.

The current top two options

1. Pull 10-12oz of finished beer, add spectrum. Use my Co2 purging dry hopper to add the mixture back to the beer. This can help to limit oxygen but im sure there will still be some dissolved in solution.
2. Forget using it for DH, add mid-fermentation using similar process as above and hope that the yeast scrub any newly introduced oxygen.

Curious, what process did you end up using to DH with spectrum?

Just add it at end of fermentation, yeast activity will mix it well and scrub any oxygen introduced.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

add it at end of fermentation

I leaning towards this as well, seems the "safest" option.

 

[Apmarand]

Just add it at end of fermentation, yeast activity will mix it well and scrub any oxygen introduced.

This works. There is also a fourth option - I add it to recirculation lines with biofine 24 hrs after a cold crash, purge with CO2, and recirculate the conical between the racking port and sampling valves for a few minutes.

 

[Jesse Runowski]

i haven't tried recirculating yet, but its on my list. Bubbling co2 for now. Definitely will give it a shot once I got the recirculation equipment

 

[Apmarand]

i haven't tried recirculating yet, but its on my list. Bubbling co2 for now. Definitely will give it a shot once I got the recirculation equipment

I’ve found that the expression of these products (concentrated hop oils and full spectrum extracts) really shine the further back (I.e. closer to packaging) in the process that they’re added.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I picked up some spectrum for dry hopping myself. I've been trying to think of the best way to DH with it, limiting DO in the finished product.

The current top two options

1. Pull 10-12oz of finished beer, add spectrum. Use my Co2 purging dry hopper to add the mixture back to the beer. This can help to limit oxygen but im sure there will still be some dissolved in solution.
2. Forget using it for DH, add mid-fermentation using similar process as above and hope that the yeast scrub any newly introduced oxygen.

Curious, what process did you end up using to DH with spectrum?

add it to a purged keg than rack the beer, gently roll the keg. I also add aldc and some Asorbic acid.

 

[FringeDweller]

Well it's been 10 days since I posted and added Nottingham dry yeast to my dry hop keg with tons of diastole and still no change

Any other ideas?

 

[FringeDweller]

Quick update. It's been 10 days since I posted and added Nottingham yeast and diluted dextrose to the keg to restart fermentation. Unfortunately the beer still has diacetyl...

 

[beervoid]

Quick update. It's been 10 days since I posted and added Nottingham yeast and diluted dextrose to the keg to restart fermentation. Unfortunately the beer still has diacetyl...

Might be infection? Did you check ph?

 

[beervoid]

Quick update. It's been 10 days since I posted and added Nottingham yeast and diluted dextrose to the keg to restart fermentation. Unfortunately the beer still has diacetyl...

Could also be that the dry yeast didnt kick off, if you can krauzen some yeast and take with some beer from an active fermentation it might work better

 

[BongoYodeler]

Fermentation is done, now cooling down for dry hopping. This hydrometer sample tasted wonderful!! I followed OP's recipe very close with the exception of the hops used. I ended up bittering with Chinook, then Cascade/Centennial @ 10mins. Cascade/Centennial @WP. Will be dry hopping with Cascade/Centennial/Citra.

OG: 1.062
FG: 1.009

 

[BongoYodeler]

Experiment time. Decided to try something different dry hopping ^this^ beer, based loosely on this from Scott Janish. I don't have a dedicated fridge to be able to easily cold crash after fermentation is complete, so this time I just stuck my kegmenter in my keezer, set at 36°f, for a couple days to drop the yeast out of suspension. Purged the lines and used the CO2 tank and a shortened dip tube to move the beer off the yeast and into a fermentation-purged keg containing the dry hops. The dry hop keg has a floating dip tube attached. After transfer was complete I removed the dry hop keg from the keezer and laid it horizontally on the carpeted floor. Off and on for the next few hours I rolled the keg back and forth to keep the hops moving and in suspension. Since I don't want to bring the temperature up far enough to wake up whatever yeast made it over from the fermentation keg, I put the dry hop keg back in the keezer until tomorrow. I'll follow the same procedure for three days total. I'm undecided at this point whether to leave the beer in the dry hop keg and just serve from there, or to move it to a third, (serving), keg that I can first purge with Starsan. I've got time to figure out my next move but I will update here when done.

 

[Shenanigans]

Experiment time. Decided to try something different dry hopping ^this^ beer, based loosely on this from Scott Janish. I don't have a dedicated fridge to be able to easily cold crash after fermentation is complete, so this time I just stuck my kegmenter in my keezer, set at 36°f, for a couple days to drop the yeast out of suspension. Purged the lines and used the CO2 tank and a shortened dip tube to move the beer off the yeast and into a fermentation-purged keg containing the dry hops. The dry hop keg has a floating dip tube attached. After transfer was complete I removed the dry hop keg from the keezer and laid it horizontally on the carpeted floor. Off and on for the next few hours I rolled the keg back and forth to keep the hops moving and in suspension. Since I don't want to bring the temperature up far enough to wake up whatever yeast made it over from the fermentation keg, I put the dry hop keg back in the keezer until tomorrow. I'll follow the same procedure for three days total. I'm undecided at this point whether to leave the beer in the dry hop keg and just serve from there, or to move it to a third, (serving), keg that I can first purge with Starsan. I've got time to figure out my next move but I will update here when done.

How are the dry hops added, loose or in a bag?
Just wondering how you are filtering them out of the served beer.

 

[BongoYodeler]

How are the dry hops added, loose or in a bag?
Just wondering how you are filtering them out of the served beer.

Added loose to the dry hop keg prior to fermentation in the ferm keg. Used fermentation CO2 to purge DH keg while the hops were sitting inside. The DH keg has a floating dip tube, and after the hops cold crash to the bottom I can either serve from there or transfer off the hops to a serving keg. I've tested this, (loose hops and a FDT), with a pale ale and it worked fine. Hopefully the same holds true with the additional hops used in this IPA.

 

[Apmarand]

Third batch was a real winner - Ella FWH, 15, and 5, with cashmere and Nelson in WP and DH. 100% Pilsner malt. 34/70 attenuated the s@*t out of this beer. Won’t complain with 8.2% DIPA after shooting for 7ish. Super clean with a bit of alcohol on the nose - definitely bringing the mash temps up next time. Picture from kegging day.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Third batch was a real winner - Ella FWH, 15, and 5, with cashmere and Nelson in WP and DH. 100% Pilsner malt. 34/70 attenuated the s@*t out of this beer. Won’t complain with 8.2% DIPA after shooting for 7ish. Super clean with a bit of alcohol on the nose - definitely bringing the mash temps up next time. Picture from kegging day.

Man that’s an incredible sounding beer! Think about how unique it is - a big boozy, super dry, super hoppy lager bomb! Or just call it WCIPA. Love it. What were your OG/FG, mash temp and how did you treat the 34/70? I just had one go 1056 -1005 and I love how dry it is, still has plenty of body. That was with a complicated overnight step mash (147, 152, 160, 172) and a big healthy pitch from a local brewery.

 

[FringeDweller]

Third batch was a real winner - Ella FWH, 15, and 5, with cashmere and Nelson in WP and DH. 100% Pilsner malt. 34/70 attenuated the s@*t out of this beer. Won’t complain with 8.2% DIPA after shooting for 7ish. Super clean with a bit of alcohol on the nose - definitely bringing the mash temps up next time. Picture from kegging day.

Love me some Nelson! How much cashmere and Nelson did you use?

 

[Shenanigans]

Added loose to the dry hop keg prior to fermentation in the ferm keg. Used fermentation CO2 to purge DH keg while the hops were sitting inside. The DH keg has a floating dip tube, and after the hops cold crash to the bottom I can either serve from there or transfer off the hops to a serving keg. I've tested this, (loose hops and a FDT), with a pale ale and it worked fine. Hopefully the same holds true with the additional hops used in this IPA.

Sounds good; I hope the additional hops didnt cause any issues.
Up until now for IPAs I have been dry hopping in a bag and droping them in the primary at room temperature at the end of the fermentation, for about 5 days.
I probably wont get to brew again until early November but I'm looking to do do something like what you have described.
I still need to build a few things and decide on a recipe but have drafted this:

 

[Apmarand]

Love me some Nelson! How much cashmere and Nelson did you use?

Ended up dry hopping 0.75 oz/gal of Nelson and 0.5 oz/gal of Cashmere

 

[Apmarand]

Man that’s an incredible sounding beer! Think about how unique it is - a big boozy, super dry, super hoppy lager bomb! Or just call it WCIPA. Love it. What were your OG/FG, mash temp and how did you treat the 34/70? I just had one go 1056 -1005 and I love how dry it is, still has plenty of body. That was with a complicated overnight step mash (147, 152, 160, 172) and a big healthy pitch from a local brewery.

Mashed at 148F for 45 minutes and 162F for 30 (probably overkill as I ended up getting mash efficiency over 80% on my system for the first time). Pitched 1 million cells per mL per plato at 60F for 3 days until FG, brought it up to 65F for diacetyl for 3 days, hard crash to 35F for 2 days, dump, and dry hopped for 3 days at 58F. SG was 1.071 and it finished at 1.008. W34/70 is a really forgiving yeast, very clean even at ale temps. Even split if Chloride and Sulfate (~150ppm) which to my palate helps bolster body.

This 5G batch only last 2.5 weeks (I had some help), which didn’t really give it time to clear up post-biofine treatment (it did get a bit brighter - pic attached). Sometimes dryness/crushability works against you

Would definitely make again with a new hop combo. Maybe up the dry hop rate to 2-2.5 oz/gal. @ihavenonickname Thanks for getting this thread going. I absolutely took a lot of inspiration from other posts!

 

[Bill2017]

Followed OP’s revised recipe with Citra, Simcoe, Cascade 63 ibu. Ferment and serve from same keg w/floating dip tube. Cali dry yeast by Cellar Science. 29 day’s conditioning at 38f. 6.5%ABV. Tasting great.
Thanks @ihavenonickname.

Edit: aroma hops at 0.82oz/gal
Dry hops at 2.0 oz/gal.
10 gallon batch into two 5 gal cornys.

 

[ihavenonickname]

This one all pils and all mosaic, 6.5%. Used a knock out dry hop too (with yeast pitch). All inspired by Alvarado street.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

This one all pils and all mosaic, 6.5%. Used a knock out dry hop too (with yeast pitch). All inspired by Alvarado street.

Was your knockout dry hop the only dry hop addition? How is the overall hop flavor and aroma?

I made a couple batches of West Coast Pilsner. Based on research from Omega that dry hopping early in fermentation let to more clear beer, I added my dry hop on day 1. That beer was one of the most crystal clear beers I have ever made. I thought the hop character was great. That beer was dry hopped at the rate of 3 oz per 5 gallons.

 

[Ulisses4677]

This one all pils and all mosaic, 6.5%. Used a knock out dry hop too (with yeast pitch). All inspired by Alvarado street.

I do knockout with incognito, it’s great.

 

[anteater8]

Just kegged my all time favorite NEIPA recipe with one very small change. This recipe got me two of my three highest scores ever (40 & 42.5). After a lot of experimenting this summer with mixed results, I had to go back to what I know. The only change I made was replacing 1 oz of Galaxy with 1 oz of Vic Secret. Very excited to write a true review in a few weeks!

14 lb 2 row
3 lb flaked oats
0.75 lb wheat
0.25 lb honey malt

0.5 oz Warrior 60 min (19 IBU)
2 oz Citra whirlpool (30 min 180 degrees)
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax whirlpool (30 min 180 degrees)
2 oz Amarillo whirlpool (30 min 180 degrees)
2 oz Citra dry hop
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop
2 oz Mosaic dry hop
2 oz Amarillo dry hop
1 oz Vic Secret dry hop

Imperial Juice

O.G. = 1.065
F.G. = 1.014
ABV = 6.7%

 

[ihavenonickname]

Was your knockout dry hop the only dry hop addition? How is the overall hop flavor and aroma?

I made a couple batches of West Coast Pilsner. Based on research from Omega that dry hopping early in fermentation let to more clear beer, I added my dry hop on day 1. That beer was one of the most crystal clear beers I have ever made. I thought the hop character was great. That beer was dry hopped at the rate of 3 oz per 5 gallons.

Oh glad you asked. No I did 4oz on day 1 and 12 oz near terminal on day 6. Apparently Alvarado sometimes does about 4lb/bbl at knock out AND at terminal for Mai Tai their all pils/mosaic west coast. Crazy amount of hops there.

Edit: he talks about this on a CB&B thing, I think the podcast.

Edit 2 I found my source, it’s a vid series on CB&B, JC says they’ll use 1.5-2 lbs/bbl for knock out hops and then 5-6 lbs/bbl at terminal when they’re really going for it.

 

[Shenanigans]

So I made a first draft recipe with Nelson, Citra and Strata.
Does this look OK or should I change the ratios of the 3 hops to be different than 1:1:1?
FG is estimated to be 1.012 if I mash at 66oC for 1 hour.

View attachment 820713

I brewed this beer 17 days ago.
Normally I package on day 13 or 14 but I was away last weekend and will be kegging it after 20 days. I got an OG of 1.061 and FG of 1.009.

2 days ago I started the soft crash and it's sitting at 13oC/55F in the primary at the moment.
I want to dry hop in the primary tonight so I can keg it on Friday after 3 days.
The FV is just a normal plastic bucket so I can't do closed transfer (I'm working on that )
What would you recommend for the 3 day dry hop?
Keep the temperature at 55 or cool it down further?

 

[Shenanigans]

Experiment time. Decided to try something different dry hopping ^this^ beer, based loosely on this from Scott Janish. I don't have a dedicated fridge to be able to easily cold crash after fermentation is complete, so this time I just stuck my kegmenter in my keezer, set at 36°f, for a couple days to drop the yeast out of suspension. Purged the lines and used the CO2 tank and a shortened dip tube to move the beer off the yeast and into a fermentation-purged keg containing the dry hops. The dry hop keg has a floating dip tube attached. After transfer was complete I removed the dry hop keg from the keezer and laid it horizontally on the carpeted floor. Off and on for the next few hours I rolled the keg back and forth to keep the hops moving and in suspension. Since I don't want to bring the temperature up far enough to wake up whatever yeast made it over from the fermentation keg, I put the dry hop keg back in the keezer until tomorrow. I'll follow the same procedure for three days total. I'm undecided at this point whether to leave the beer in the dry hop keg and just serve from there, or to move it to a third, (serving), keg that I can first purge with Starsan. I've got time to figure out my next move but I will update here when done.

So what did you do in the end?

 

[Spivey24]

I brewed this beer 17 days ago.
Normally I package on day 13 or 14 but I was away last weekend and will be kegging it after 20 days. I got an OG of 1.061 and FG of 1.009.

2 days ago I started the soft crash and it's sitting at 13oC/55F in the primary at the moment.
I want to dry hop in the primary tonight so I can keg it on Friday after 3 days.
The FV is just a normal plastic bucket so I can't do closed transfer (I'm working on that )
What would you recommend for the 3 day dry hop?
Keep the temperature at 55 or cool it down further?

I prefer the 50-55 range lately for the dry hop, though I have noticed at the cooler temperatures, it does benefit from a 5 day dry hop as opposed to 3 day for a warmer dry hop. Just my experience.

 

[Shenanigans]

I prefer the 50-55 range lately for the dry hop, though I have noticed at the cooler temperatures, it does benefit from a 5 day dry hop as opposed to 3 day for a warmer dry hop. Just my experience.

Yeah I might just leave it like it is.
It will be about 3.5 days after dry hopping so I can live with that.
In my current setup a hard cold crash will only suck air/starsan into the fermenter anyway.
I'll clear it in the keg with gelatine.

 

[ihavenonickname]

@Shenanigans
in general, if your oxygen reduction techniques are not very involved (like a bucket without pressure) I would suggest dry hopping with a few days of fermentation left and then transferring to keg after fermentation has completely finished without a cold crash/soft crash

But in your scenario (fermentation is definately done) I would consider two ways.:
1 - get that baby into a keg and purge the heck out of it as soon as possible. Then dry hop and drink fast.
Or
2 - dry hop in your bucket now the best way you can (purging with co2? Or very quickly) and add 20mcg of kmeta with the dry hops (this can really make a difference!) for 1-4 days then transfer to keg and drink fast!

Dry hopping at 54f or colder or warmer for a bucket set up should only make you consider the oxidation implications - if you drop the temp much at all it’s almost sure to suck in air and that sucks!

 

[Shenanigans]

@Shenanigans
in general, if your oxygen reduction techniques are not very involved (like a bucket without pressure) I would suggest dry hopping with a few days of fermentation left and then transferring to keg after fermentation has completely finished without a cold crash/soft crash

But in your scenario (fermentation is definately done) I would consider two ways.:
1 - get that baby into a keg and purge the heck out of it as soon as possible. Then dry hop and drink fast.
Or
2 - dry hop in your bucket now the best way you can (purging with o2? Or very quickly) and add 20mcg of kmeta with the dry hops (this can really make a difference!) for 1-4 days then transfer to keg and drink fast!

Dry hopping at 54f or colder or warmer for a bucket set up should only make you consider the oxidation implications - if you drop the temp much at all it’s almost sure to suck in air and that sucks!

OK, thanks for the tips.
They way forward will be to set up one of those fermonster FVs with a liquid and gas ballocks. I have all the parts here, I just need to find the time to build it all together.