Yet another Russian Imperial Stout water profile thread

[bionut]

I am brewing from 2012 and i had pretty good results so far. But as i didn't really liked dark beers i almost never brewed them.

Recently my taste buds started to like dark beers, don't ask me why, and i want to brew some big stouts. The problem is that i don't seem to figure out the recipe and mineral additions for a good mash pH and good, balanced, roastiness.

All the recipes i find online have a lot of roasted malts in them and is very hard to get a good mineral profile. I am using RO water and i only have sodium bicarbonate for raising the pH. I've read that chalk doesn't disolve very easy and pickling lime isn't an option in my country as it's very hard to get.

Here i have a recipe i made based on what malts i have and the mineral additions needed for a good stout pH. What can you say about it? Please note that i only used ~ 7% roasted grains and some dark crystal malt. Still in Beersmith the predicted color is way out of the style range. How can someone use 10% or more roasted grains and still get a good pH and a good beer in the end? What am i missing here?
I want a motor oil like stout so that's why i went with a 1:2 sulfate to chloride ratio, not sure if am right but i think the extra chloride will help with the mouthfeel.
Any advices, critiques or suggestions are welcome!
LE: i do BIAB with no sparge.

 

[FunkedOut]

I’d say your estimated pH is fine.
If you wanted to raise it more, you could remove some (or all) of the dark malts and steep them separately.
Add that to the kettle after the mash.

 

[bionut]

Yep, but i only used aroun 7% roasted malts. If i want to use one of the recipes online that use up to 10-15% roasted malts i would need to use a lot of sodium bicarbonate to get a good pH. I can't wrap my head around those big roasted grains recipes...
Do you think that i will get a good imperial stout with that grain bill?
Is steeping the dark malts a good solution? Will i get the same roastines from going this way?

 

[RM-MN]

Yep, but i only used aroun 7% roasted malts. If i want to use one of the recipes online that use up to 10-15% roasted malts i would need to use a lot of sodium bicarbonate to get a good pH. I can't wrap my head around those big roasted grains recipes...
Do you think that i will get a good imperial stout with that grain bill?
Is steeping the dark malts a good solution? Will i get the same roastines from going this way?

I'm not much help as I brew my stouts with well water and no adjustments. Maybe my beers are horrible but they taste good to me and my relatives (the few that drink anything they can't see through). I do give them plenty of time in the bottle to mature. I think if I were in your position, instead of worrying so much about making the perfect stout, settle for pretty good. Your recipe looks like all the flavors will be muddled together since you have so many different malts so none will stand out. Simplify and quit letting the quest for perfect get in the way of the perfectly acceptable.

 

[HTH1975]

Initial thoughts... your grist is WAY too complicated. Munich has no place in a stout imo. Start off simple with pale malt, plus maybe 10% brown malt, 5% dark crystal, plus 5% roasted barley (split 50/50 with chocolate malt for a bit more complexity).

Aim for OG around 1.050, FG around 1.012, mash at 67C, Saf-04 will work great. 25-30 IBUs, hops at start of boil then 30 mins. You don’t need any aroma hops near the end or dry hops (imo). Let the malt shine.

How is your tap water? Is it useable for brewing? Building up your water from RO might not be required, depending on your tap water.

 

[bionut]

My water is terrible and not consistent, that's why i bought the RO system.
All the imperial stouts i liked had a lot of different malts, so i thought i might try to recreate them. I may cut some of the malts, but the question with the roasted grain percentage and mash pH remains. I am intrigued how can someone brew a RIS with as much as 15% roasted malts and get the pH in range. Maybe the chalk and pickling lime are the key, or a good water source for stouts...

This saturday i will brew a imperial stout because i have a mild ale fermenting with White Labs 002 and it's the perfect starter for a bigger beer. Will see if the mineral additions are ok or not. I used the munich just because i don't have enough pale ale malt left and don't want to use my golden promise on a imperal stout will have to order some more pale ale malt.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is steeping the dark malts a good solution? Will i get the same roastines from going this way?

Absolutely! I keep all dark roasted grains out of the mash, they are steeped on the side and sparged twice.

I even take it a step farther, I don't add the black steeping potion until after the boil, when the wort has chilled down to 170-160F. Let it sit for 10' to pasteurize, then chill down to ferm temps. It never gets boiled that way, which I think keeps the roasted flavors cleaner and brighter. I hate cooked/boiled coffee flavors.

The Brown Malt and dark crystals do go in the mash.

 

[GnenieGone]

Thread of 1000 opinions

1) I love my Russian Imperial Stouts.
2) I steep with about 1/3darks in mash for pH reasons then add the rest at around 45min just prior to clarifying. This will keep harsh bitter tannins out of the final product. But is only if you have maybe 1lbs or higher total. Less then that you should be good.
3) I shoot for 5.4pH and 1:1.5 (Calcium/Chroide). I always use RO then remineralize.
4) I use Munich in all my stouts. But haven't done side by side w/wo. Only know when I started using recipes with Munich I liked them better. The 10-Fidy clone uses 3lbs.
5) That is a complex grain bill. Try just 2-row, Munich, oats, Crystal 80, Chocolate, Roasted Barley. Basic recipe. Darks are around 10% so 1.7lbs total?
6) Aim for 1.070 OG and 1.020 FG (6.25% min) for fuller feel. 1.012 for stout is way too dry for me. IBUs around 35 or so.Good Luck!