Yeast wisdom

[THESULLI]

Hi all!

First off let me say that I hope everyone is staying safe out there in this crazy world we are living in now... I am a bit of a germaphobe myself. It kinda makes this whole Covid-19 thing a bit more interesting...

It has been a while since I have had a chance to make any beer! I just finished up my 5th batch, minus pitching the yeast. I am concerned that I might be under pitching with just 1 packet of US-05.

5 gallon batch
6 lbs - Golden Light DME
2 lbs - Pilsen Light DME
1 lb - Crystal 20L
1 lb - Carapils
2 oz - Nugget Hops
2 oz - Falconers Flight Hops
2 oz - Amarillo Hops
8 oz - Dextrose added in the boil. It was for bottling but I got excited and spent a lot of money building a keezer... So this will end up in the keg.
1 packet - US-05. I was planning on just sprinkling it on dry.

Starting Gravity of 1.080! Did not see that coming. I got this recipe from my LHBS. I added about 1/2 lb extra of Golden Light DME than what the recipe called for because I had it sitting there. So why not? Other than that, the recipe was followed exactly.

My question is this... Will 1 packet of US-05 be enough for this beer? I was not expecting a 1.080 at all. I guess that extra 1/2 lb of Golden Light DME went further than I thought it would. I sometimes see videos online of guys doubling up their yeast pitch to accommodate such a high original gravity. On the other hand I have seen a lot of videos talking about how important it is NOT to over pitch... When I looked in to how to solve this, it ended up being more math than my brain was designed for HAHA! I was hoping someone could give me a general rule of thumb when it comes to high gravity beers so I can pitch the yeast tonight. Don't get me wrong, I know I need to learn the math as well. I am just under a slight time constraint for tonight.

Any and all help would be appreciated guys. Thanks!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

One packed will be fine. Maybe not ideal (you'll get different opinions on that) but it will work.

 

[THESULLI]

Awesome thank you! I just plugged everything into beersmith and come up with an original gravity of 1.067? First time using beersmith. I might be using it wrong haha.

I will go ahead and just pitch the 1 packet for now and see what happens. I have another packet of expired US-05. Maybe if it stalls out I can pitch that too?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Your OG will depend on how much trub you lost. If you dumped everything into your fermenter, it's up close to 1.080. If you left a gallon of trub behind (6 gal in total - 5 in fermenter, one left behind), your gravity is around 1.067. You need to set up an equipment profile to match how you're brewing.

Pitch both packs of US-05 - the good one and the expired one.

 

[THESULLI]

Ohhh... That makes sense. Cool thanks! I will pitch the other packet as well. It is 2 years past its expiration date but it looks like a lot of people have used REALLY old yeast on this forum before with little to no issue.

 

[hottpeper13]

If you have 1.080 in 5 gal in the fermenter then the trub and wort of 1 gal left in the kettle will also be 1.080 not 1.067. I always fill my fermenter then shut off the pump and let some drain into a hydro sample tube, and their both the same.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

If you have 1.080 in 5 gal in the fermenter then the trub and wort of 1 gal left in the kettle will also be 1.080 not 1.067. I always fill my fermenter then shut off the pump and let some drain into a hydro sample tube, and their both the same.

Simple maths. If you have 5 gallon in the fermenter with no trub, then all of it is 1.080.
If you have 5 gallon in the fermenter and 1 gallon of trub, then all of it is 1.067. The fermentables in the recipe give close to 400 points of gravity, which is 1.080 in 5 gallons. If the default BeerSmith profile assumes a gallon of trub, it will estimate the gravity at 1.067.

 

[THESULLI]

So I ended up pitching 2 packets of the US-05. 1 of them was brand new and the other expired 2 years ago. Everything seems fine. Very active fermentation this morning. Nothing to do now but play the waiting game. Worst game ever...

 

[hottpeper13]

Gnome, if that's the case, what is the gravity of the entire 6 gal in the BK? My simple math says 1.080.

 

[khannon]

All of the calories of anything you eat are in the last bite.. Leave that one on your plate and you are fine..

I think what Gnome might be thinking is that if your total volume is lower then sugars are more concentrated. Which might make more sense if say your starting volume was 7Gal, and you boiled off to 5 instead of 6. Then you have less water, and more sugars.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

So I ended up pitching 2 packets of the US-05. 1 of them was brand new and the other expired 2 years ago. Everything seems fine. Very active fermentation this morning. Nothing to do now but play the waiting game. Worst game ever...

Be patient with this one...80 points will take a little longer to ferment out.
I'd go 10 days to 2 weeks at your regular fermentation temp, then slowly raise it a couple degrees a day for an extra week at least.

 

[THESULLI]

Be patient with this one...80 points will take a little longer to ferment out.
I'd go 10 days to 2 weeks at your regular fermentation temp, then slowly raise it a couple degrees a day for an extra week at least.

Well I have 3 more kegs to fill, so 2 weeks will give me plenty of time for other beers too! I am curious though... What does raising the temp a couple of degrees a day for a week do for us? I thought we are supposed to avoid big temp variations. I am interested to learn more about that.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Well I have 3 more kegs to fill, so 2 weeks will give me plenty of time for other beers too! I am curious though... What does raising the temp a couple of degrees a day for a week do for us? I thought we are supposed to avoid big temp variations. I am interested to learn more about that.

When most of the primary fermentation is done, the yeast character of the beer is pretty much set. Slowly raising the temp a couple degrees over the next few days encourages the yeast to more actively complete the job of attenuation and clean up any fermenatation byproducts that can contribute to off flavors. For a lager you might hear the term "diacetyl rest" for this. For regular ales it likely isn't needed, but for a big beer, this should at least help you can get those last couple points fermented out. I do it with all my fermentations just to be sure it completes.

 

[THESULLI]

When most of the primary fermentation is done, the yeast character of the beer is pretty much set. Slowly raising the temp a couple degrees over the next few days encourages the yeast to more actively complete the job of attenuation and clean up any fermenatation byproducts that can contribute to off flavors. For a lager you might hear the term "diacetyl rest" for this. For regular ales it likely isn't needed, but for a big beer, this should at least help you can get those last couple points fermented out. I do it with all my fermentations just to be sure it completes.

Ohh cool. I just leveled up haha! Thank you for the info. What kind of temp swing are we talk here? 2 degrees a day for 7 days = 14 degree swing in total?

 

[WestMichBrewer]

Well, due to the way my temp controller works, I'll bump 2 degrees for the first day, then only 1 per day after.
You will see differing recommendations here, but that's what I do.
I wish I had firmer rules for "how high?".
A fermentation that was already done on the warmer side - say upper 60's and up, probably don't need much bump...I'm skittish to go much up into the 70s, though some yeasts like Saison strains are OK with this.
Lagers fermenting in the 50's I'll take into the mid 60s.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Gnome, if that's the case, what is the gravity of the entire 6 gal in the BK? My simple math says 1.080.

No. If there was 6 gal in the BK, the gravity is 1.067.
If a gal is boiled off (leaving 5 gal), the gravity is now 1.080.
In the 6 gal case, if 5 gal goes to fermenter and one is left behind, OG is 1.067.
In the case of 5 gal left after boil off, if it all goes into the fermenter, OG is 1.080.
Both end up with 5 gal into fermenter. This is why your equipment profile in BeerSmith must recognise the losses associated with your process.

In the OPs case, I'm assuming there was no trub left in the boil kettle (i.e. 5 gal in BK, all dumped into the fermenter). Otherwise, OG couldn't have been 1.080.

 

[hottpeper13]

I assumed the 6 gal was at the end of the boil and only 5 gal went into the fermenter and 1 was left behind. I believe that means we're both right.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm assuming [...]

I assumed [...]

That's where the problem lies!

Since the OP didn't give us enough information it remains a guessing game what he did to arrive at 1.080 (measured) instead of 1.067 (BeerSmith). AFAIK, he hasn't mentioned the actual volume that went to the fermenter so that's part of the riddle.

We can guess at it, but hopefully @THESULLI can enlighten us so we can learn what he actually did.

 

[THESULLI]

That's where the problem lies!

Since the OP didn't give us enough information it remains a guessing game what he did to arrive at 1.080 (measured) instead of 1.067 (BeerSmith). AFAIK, he hasn't mentioned the actual volume that went to the fermenter so that's part of the riddle.

We can guess at it, but hopefully @THESULLI can enlighten us so we can learn what he actually did.

Sorry about that!

I boiled 4 gallons due to my kettle only having a 5 gallon capacity At the end of the boil everything was dumped into the fermenter and topped up with water to equal 5 gallons. Looking back, I am thinking I should have topped up to 6 gallons. I would have had an OG in the range that I was expecting and I would have gotten more beer! I will never complain about that haha. I was not purposely attempting to make it a bigger beer. Minus adding the extra half pound of Golden Light over what the recipe called for of course. I was guessing I was going to end up high 1.050's or low 1.060's. So far, my experience is that you learn something new every batch!

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the explanation. Phew!

Sorry about that!

No need to be apologetic. No-one had asked for those details; and they are really beyond the point. You had measured and reported 1.080 and asked about the yeast pitch. Where the 1.080 came from is immaterial to your question.

But on a brew forum, the apparent disparity between your recipe ingredients and the resulting gravity needed to be addressed and (incorrect) assumptions of your batch's volume were made.

Again, glad sugars didn't appear out of nowhere, or worse, were lost. Can't have that happening, here.

 

[THESULLI]

Again, glad sugars didn't appear out of nowhere, or worse, were lost. Can't have that happening, here.

Haha absolutely not.

So for future batches... Is there a general guideline to be followed in terms of pitch rate? High Gravity beers, style, type of yeast?

I just ordered John Palmers How To Brew... I will have some good reading material on all this on Saturday if Amazon tracking is to be believed.

 

[ncbrewer]

What does raising the temp a couple of degrees a day for a week do for us? I thought we are supposed to avoid big temp variations.

White and Zainashef's Yeast book recommends raising the temp 4 - 10 degrees F over a day or two.

 

[IslandLizard]

What does raising the temp a couple of degrees a day for a week do for us? I thought we are supposed to avoid big temp variations.

White and Zainashef's Yeast book recommends raising the temp 4 - 10 degrees F over a day or two.

More explicitly, when fermentation starts to slow down you want to start slowly raising the temps to keep her engaged, so she can finish out and help with conditioning, cleaning up fermentation byproducts.

But don't start raising them too early. You want the bulk of the fermentation at lowish, controlled temps to avoid the yeast throwing off flavors and aromas and prevent formation of "fusel alcohols," which are larger, higher order alcohols which don't taste good (aka "rocket fuel").

See how fermentation is an art as much as a science.

 

[THESULLI]

More explicitly, when fermentation starts to slow down you want to start slowly raising the temps to keep her engaged, so she can finish out and help with conditioning, cleaning up fermentation byproducts.

But don't start raising them too early. You want the bulk of the fermentation at lowish, controlled temps to avoid the yeast throwing off flavors and aromas and prevent formation of "fusel alcohols," which are larger, higher order alcohols which don't taste good (aka "rocket fuel").

See how fermentation is an art as much as a science.

I definitely see that. Other than the cool factor of making my own beer, the art/science part together with all the ins and outs of making it happen completely fascinate me. Like I said earlier. I have learned 10 new things every time I do a batch. This strikes me as something no one can absolutely, truly master. Which to me makes the journey of us trying to master it all the more interesting.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I boiled 4 gallons due to my kettle only having a 5 gallon capacity At the end of the boil everything was dumped into the fermenter and topped up with water to equal 5 gallons.

In BeerSmith, this can be setup by creating (or modifying) an equipment profile to have zero loss to trub and chiller, and one gallon of Top Up Water (or two gallons if you decide to do 6 gallon batches).

 

[IslandLizard]

In BeerSmith...

Too bad Beersmith isn't free.

 

[THESULLI]

Too bad Beersmith isn't free.

I have the trial version for now. It will give me a basic idea of how to navigate the program.

 

[Nate R]

Too bad Beersmith isn't free.

iirc, It is about the cost of a craft beer at a bar once a month for a year.

$6x12= $72

Wait- maybe every other month?

$6x6= $36

I cant remember the exact price, but i can highly reccomend it. It helped me stay organzied as a newbie. Also has a lot of features to use as one's brewing progresses

There are also other good options out there!!

***of course, ANY brewer's first subscription should be a supporting membership @ homebrewtalk.com!!!***

 

[IslandLizard]

I have the trial version for now. It will give me a basic idea of how to navigate the program.

I still use BS2.3 (older version), haven't seen the need to "upgrade" yet.
It's a very good program, it has tons of tools and settings. The interface, however, can be mind boggling at times.

There are free tools out there, e.g., Brewer's Friend, but none as comprehensive as BS is.

 

[IslandLizard]

iirc, It is about the cost of a craft beer at a bar once a month for a year.

$6x12= $72

Wait- maybe every other month?

$6x6= $36

I cant remember the exact price, but i can highly reccomend it. It helped me stay organzied as a newbie. Also has a lot of features to use as one's brewing progresses

That's totally incorrect:
A yearly subscription costs about the same as 2 pints at a taproom. Without tips.
https://beersmithrecipes.com/checkout

Gold Subscription
$14.95 USD/year

One Time Basic
$34.95 USD
Covers minor updates
Limited cloud space, etc.

***of course, ANY brewer's first subscription should be a supporting membership @ homebrewtalk.com!!!***

That ^ definitely is the best brewing tool one can buy!

 

[Nate R]

That's totally incorrect:
A yearly subscription costs about the same as 2 pints at a taproom. Without tips.
https://beersmithrecipes.com/checkout

Gold Subscription
$14.95 USD/year

One Time Basic
$34.95 USD
Covers minor updates
Limited cloud space, etc.

That ^ definitely is the best brewing tool one can buy!

My bad!!
Spring for the $21.95 version. Wow. That is a good deal. Maybe 4 pints, without tip?

 

[IslandLizard]

My bad!!
Spring for the $21.95 version. Wow. That is a good deal. Maybe 4 pints, without tip?

That's $21.95 a year subscription! Not crazy, but it adds up over time.

Who needs 300 recipes in the cloud or 3 computers activated? Aren't 125 recipes and 2 machine activations more than plenty?

I like Brad, met him a few times at HomeBrewCon, and admire his work on BS. But I hate subscriptions. Paying every year. I'd rather purchase one time as I did with v2.

Given Brad's record on the sparsity of updates, especially major ones, I'd probably go for the One Time Basic package if I wanted the few improvements (e.g., whirlpool hops IBU calcs), and live with v3's idiosyncrasies. Although, it's been almost 2 years since 3 came out, a new one may be overdue already.
Bought for $20 at the time, I've been using v2 for about 7 years, still going strong. Never have been charged again. 7 x $14.95=...
But that's me.

 

[Nate R]

That's $21.95 a year subscription! Not crazy, but it adds up over time.

Who needs 300 recipes in the cloud or 3 computers activated? Aren't 125 recipes and 2 machine activations more than plenty?

I like Brad, met him a few times at HomeBrewCon, and admire his work on BS. But I hate subscriptions. Paying every year. I'd rather purchase one time as I did with v2.

Given Brad's record on the sparsity of updates, especially major ones, I'd probably go for the One Time Basic package if I wanted the few improvements (e.g., whirlpool hops IBU calcs), and live with v3's idiosyncrasies. Although, it's been almost 2 years since 3 came out, a new one may be overdue already.
Bought for $20 at the time, I've been using v2 for about 7 years, still going strong. Never have been charged again. 7 x $14.95=...
But that's me.

Yeah, fair points indeed.
My argument is- if i can justify expenses in this "hobby" vs. what it's trade off costs are, it is often easier to decide a true cost/value.
Agree- the basic is a better deal.
Also, you can print off recipies one created, so at least you have a hard copy forever.

 

[THESULLI]

Well she was super active this morning but slowed considerably throughout the day. Almost zero activity now. I can see the yeast layer on the bottom. It has built up quite a bit already.

I was going to try to slowly raise temps as suggested earlier but I don't really have any way to do this... Thinking about getting a heat belt or something for my next batch.

 

[Jim R]

Back to your original question. I always now make a yeast starter the day before my brew day. It just takes a few minutes and probably doubles the yeast count and gets the whole fermentation process off to a fast start with minimal expense. Honestly, that is more valuable than beersmith.

 

[Aki]

Hi guys. I just dumped almost full package of Wyeast American ale to my 1,2 gallon (5,5L) wort by mistake. Is there any way to save the beer or is it ruined? OG was 1052. Thank you in advance!

 

[coonmanx]

Hi guys. I just dumped almost full package of Wyeast American ale to my 1,2 gallon (5,5L) wort by mistake. Is there any way to save the beer or is it ruined? OG was 1052. Thank you in advance!

My guess is that it will simply blow through fermentation quicker. Shouldn't be a problem.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi guys. I just dumped almost full package of Wyeast American ale to my 1,2 gallon (5,5L) wort by mistake. Is there any way to save the beer or is it ruined? OG was 1052. Thank you in advance!

A little over-pitching won't hurt your beer, it will be fine.
Save the yeast cake and reuse parts of it for new brews. Read up on how to harvest, store (refrigerated) and reuse.
When pitching into a new batch of roughly the same size and same gravity, pitch 1/5 or 1/4 of the saved yeast cake. Keep the rest for other pitches.

Typically, during fermentation the amount of yeast grows 4-5 times her pitch size. In your case you pitched 2-3 times as much as needed, so she won't grow as much, maybe another 2-3 times instead of 4-5 times.

BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

 

[coonmanx]

Well she was super active this morning but slowed considerably throughout the day. Almost zero activity now. I can see the yeast layer on the bottom. It has built up quite a bit already.

I was going to try to slowly raise temps as suggested earlier but I don't really have any way to do this... Thinking about getting a heat belt or something for my next batch.

I wouldn't worry if you can't raise temperatures. I never have done that even though I get why people would do it. I would just let it ride for a while longer to finish.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just dumped almost full package of Wyeast American ale to my 1,2 gallon (5,5L) wort

You didn't pitch all, what were you going to do with the bit that was leftover? What would you normally do with it if you only pitched 1/3 or 1/2?