First Custom Grain Bill- Thoughts?

[gg98]

I recently got into the hobby and after months of watching/listening to YT videos during my commute/reading Palmer's work, took the plunge on making my own homebrew. I started with the Northern Brewer cheap Brew Share Enjoy Amber Ale kit and successfully made that extract recipe kit, hitting exactly on target on my Gravity readings, not getting infections, etc. I was pretty happy with how it turned out and mainly saw it as a test run to make sure I didn't completely botch the cold side on my first go. Really, I was most interested in doing BIAB completely custom beers with a full mash.

My fiancée's parents found a one gallon fermenter kit at a garage sale while the other was fermenting and so I decided to try it out. Wanting to support a local-ish business, I stopped by my LHBS just to check it out and ended up buying some supplies for my first BIAB attempt and got the following:

10 lbs of Maris Otter
1 lb Flaked Barley
1 lb Blackswaen Biscuit Malt
1 lb Blackswaen Chocolate Wheat Malt
1 lb Briess Roasted Barley
1 lb Briess Caramel 40

Hops:
2 oz EKG
2 oz Saaz
1 Oz Citra

Yeast
3 Packets Nottingham

Misc. needed supplies (Brew Bag, Star-San, Whirlfloc etc.)

So, I decided to initially try the one-gallon fermenter along with my new brew bag as a test run and did my first ever BIAB SMASH (2.5 lb Maris otter, Citra, 1/2 packet Nottingham) which is currently fermenting and at least looks so far like I didn't completely **** up as I hit almost exact on my OG in Brewfather. Now that I have experience with BIAB and my main set up is available again (5g fermenter from the NB set), I'm interested in doing an actual custom grain/hop bill and was looking for confirmation that what I have here isn't terrible.

I'm trying to do a dry-ish Irish stout. Think something similar to Guinness but just a slightly more chocolate taste. I had read that pale chocolate malt is the closest to this flavor profile but the LHBS didn't have it so I figured I would try the chocolate wheat. Here is the recipe I currently have in Brewfather for a 2.5-gallon batch:

Fermentables:
3 lbs, 2 oz Maris Otter (65.8%)
1 lb Flaked Barley (21.1%)
7.5 oz Blackswaen Chocolate Wheat (9.9%)
2.5 Oz Roasted Barley (3.3%)

Hops: 1 Oz EKG at 60 minutes (40 IBU)

Yeast: 1 package Lallemand Nottingham

Brewfather is giving me the following stats:

4.5% ABV
OG: 1.044
FG: 1.011
SRM: 36
IBU: 40
BU/GU: .92

My only concern is if I am overdoing it with the roasted grains at 13+%, or if anyone has experience with these specific grains and can tell me it is going to give me off flavors that I'm not exactly looking for in this particular beer. Does Chocolate Wheat actually give a slight chocolate taste or will it just be intensely bitter? If that is the case, should I cut back on my Hops addition and/or make it later to account for the roasted grain bitterness? I want something that will be relatively smooth to the palate/drinkable the way that my favorite, Guinness draught, is.

Thanks.

 

[micraftbeer]

You could cut your ibu in half and still be ok. My experience with dark beers is it's pretty hard to actually distinguish the hops much, so 20 vs 40 IBU will probably be pretty similar, but the 20 will help keep you further away from a hop bitterness.

I like the chocolate wheat for my palate, being not too harsh. The roasted barley does seem a bit high. You can scale it back and just watch the color SRM in Brewfather to make sure you still are getting the color you're after. I'd guess you might be able to cut it to 1/3 of what you have and still be ok. If you're after smooth drinking, I don't think you're going to want something as potent as that up at 3.3% of your bill.

 

[gg98]

Thank you so much for your rapid response!

I could cut roasted barley down to 1 oz (1.3%) while bumping the Maris Otter by 2 oz to compensate. Also, just so I can still kill the Hops package and not have extra laying around, would making that 60-minute addition a .5 oz and still using the remaining .5 oz at 10 minutes (dropping IBU to 28) be a solid idea in your experience? I'm okay with some aroma/mild hop flavors and from everything I've read EKG is a very mild hop, but I wouldn't necessarily want the hop flavor to be overpowering or anything more than a mild note.

I'm also trying to make something that is within the BJCP guidelines for Irish Stout just so I can feel like I made a bit of my own spin while still being "authentic", and at that new grain bill, my calculator is showing me as just falling within all guidelines on OG/FG as well as bittering.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I'm trying to do a dry-ish Irish stout. Think something similar to Guinness but just a slightly more chocolate taste. I had read that pale chocolate malt is the closest to this flavor profile but the LHBS didn't have it so I figured I would try the chocolate wheat. Here is the recipe I currently have in Brewfather for a 2.5-gallon batch:

First off, I am impressed with your first steps. Many people jump in with crazy recipes and ideas, but this is a decent thought out recipe and you are asking good questions.

Dark malts can be a bit tricky to balance. In a 2.5 gallon batch, often +/- 1 oz of a dark roasted grain can have a significant difference. My instinct says that maybe 6 oz of Chocolate Wheat and 2 oz of Black Patent might be a good amount.

As far as your hop questions. Hops added at 60 minutes will contribute mostly just bitterness. You won't be able to pick out subtle hop flavors in a beer like a Stout. One option might be to divide up your hop additions with say 1/2 oz at 60 minutes and 1/2 oz with 10 or 15 minutes left in the boil. This will lower the bitterness and carry a touch of hop character into the final beer.

With beers like a Stout or Porter, I almost always have a small addition in the 10-15 minutes (about 1 oz for a 5 gallon batch). Why? I think it is mostly because many recipes that I learned from call for a similar addition. I am never 100% sure it really adds any character I can detect. With my recently kegged stout, I just went for a 60 minute addition.

 

[gg98]

As far as your hop questions. Hops added at 60 minutes will contribute mostly just bitterness. You won't be able to pick out subtle hop flavors in a beer like a Stout. One option might be to divide up your hop additions with say 1/2 oz at 60 minutes and 1/2 oz with 1 0 r 15 minutes left in the boil. This will lower the bitterness and carry a touch of hop character into the final beer.

That's awesome to read given I had just posted essentially the exact same idea probably as you were typing this up in response to the OP. Glad to see I'm on the right track here. I'm going to do the 1/2 oz at 60 and 1/2 at 10 or 15 then without worry it will add to much hop character then.

I think I'm also going to cut the chocolate wheat down ever so slightly to 7 oz then, and leave the roasted barley at 1 oz. I'm okay with the slight drop in SRM down to ~32

 

[AlexKay]

This is excellent. One piece of advice I have is that at this point as a brewer, you want to balance “what recipe will give me the best beer?” and “what will I learn using this recipe?” For the latter, lean toward simpler things with fewer ingredients.

For that reason, I might consider replacing the roasted barley with more chocolate wheat.

Also, roast grains tend to contribute astringency more than bitterness, distinguishable by the mouth-drying, chewing-a-tea-bag sensation. Huskless roast grains (like wheat and rye, or barley where the husk has been removed) add much less of this.

 

[gg98]

Finally broke into my first homebrew after two weeks of bottle carbing. I ended up with higher than anticipated efficiency which I carried into my second brew day (I originally went with the app’s default 67% but looks more like I consistently hit 73-74% with my BIAB) so my Irish dry stout ended up a dry extra stout at 5.3%.

It’s fantastic albeit maybe just a bit too roasty for my taste, and the chocolate wheat gave a bit more of a Dunkelweizen after taste than a traditional Irish stout. Overall though I am thrilled with my first true custom brew.


Thank you all for your help

 

[micraftbeer]

Sweet. That's what this hobby is all about- nerding out on the details, and then making something at the end that makes you happy. Enjoying both the journey AND the destination!

 

[AlexKay]

Finally broke into my first homebrew after two weeks of bottle carbing. I ended up with higher than anticipated efficiency which I carried into my second brew day (I originally went with the app’s default 67% but looks more like I consistently hit 73-74% with my BIAB) so my Irish dry stout ended up a dry extra stout at 5.3%.

It’s fantastic albeit maybe just a bit too roasty for my taste, and the chocolate wheat gave a bit more of a Dunkelweizen after taste than a traditional Irish stout. Overall though I am thrilled with my first true custom brew.


Thank you all for your help

That’s a fantastic-looking beer. You can probably thank the chocolate wheat for the great head of foam.

If it’s veering into dunkelweizen territory, though, that’s probably not the chocolate wheat. ___weizens get their flavor profile from the characterful yeast and high fermentation temperature; the wheat itself is very clean-tasting. (See: American wheat beers.) Nottingham is generally very restrained at 60-65 F, but definitely makes more esters once you get into the 70s. Did you control or monitor the fermentation temperature, and if so, what was it?

 

[Stikius]

Hi there, Have been thinking of buying grain/malt in 5 or 10 kg for extract brewing. I'm still getting to grips with it. It would need to be pre crushed as I haven't got a grinder,and I'm guessing that'll effect the shelf life. Is there an generic grain bill mix or individual separate grains/malts I should buy for ales/stouts/beer? I appreciate that there's many recipes for the 3 drinks above. I also need to get decent scales. Thanks

If you're just starting out I would suggest to buy a recipe kit. Don't know if you have a local homebrew shop (they usually keep recipes) or if you want to buy online? I could see the malt miller had some kits for example. I don't have any experience with them at all though, since I'm not in the UK. Any homebrew shop should be able to provide you with both the equipment (kettles, fermenting vessels, etc.) as well as ingredients.

 

[gg98]

Hi there, Have been thinking of buying grain/malt in 5 or 10 kg for extract brewing. I'm still getting to grips with it. It would need to be pre crushed as I haven't got a grinder,and I'm guessing that'll effect the shelf life. Is there a generic grain bill mix or individual separate grains/malts I should buy for ales/stouts/beer? I appreciate that there's many recipes for the 3 drinks above. I also need to get decent scales. Thanks

I bought a cheap hand mill for like $80 on Amazon. The only problem is usually that means you’re expected to get an elevated slab of plywood, cut a hole into it, drill your mill into it so that its grains are falling through the hole into your receptacle, etc.

What I do instead is adjust the mill to the proper size, place in on a flat baking sheet and mill a small portion onto the sheet until I’m out of space in the exact spot I’m in and do that repeatedly, then dump tray into a larger bowl which then goes into my brew bag when I hit strike temperature.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm still getting to grips with it. It would need to be pre crushed as I haven't got a grinder,and I'm guessing that'll effect the shelf life.

Corona mills get good reviews here from people who use them.

Shelf life for crushed grains is either 6 seconds or 6 months, depending on who replies. Vacuum sealing portions would extend shelf life.

Is there an generic grain bill mix or individual separate grains/malts I should buy for ales/stouts/beer?

If you are OK with crystal malts: a light crystal, a medium crystal, Simpsons DRC (or some other dark crystal), chocolate, black, roasted barley.