Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison - they were right!

[hyperboarder]

Ugh, I'm starting to hate this strain. I let it go for 4 weeks at 66-68F (I didn't pay a ton of attention to the temp range) and it stopped at about 1.034. Built a temp controller and strapped a heating pad on set to 80 for the last 8 days, still at 1.020 today. Moved the pad under the fermenter and set it to 85, hoping that will finally kick it through to the end. I wasn't planning on having this fermenter tied up for 6 freakin weeks!!!

In the mean time I've got a double IPA and a breakfast stout that are going bananas, 2 days in and they're approaching target FG.

 

[hyperboarder]

6 weeks and I'm at 1.014. Letting it go one more and then kegging.

 

[Silentbob]

UGGHH! I'm done screwing with this bug! Its been 3 weeks and its stuck in mid 30's. I don't have a way of heating it up and holding the higher temp. If it hasn't budged by tomorrow, I'm pitching champagne and being done with it.

If I ever use this yeast again it will be in the dead of summer when I can toss it in garage and not worry about it.

 

[barrooze]

UGGHH! I'm done screwing with this bug! Its been 3 weeks and its stuck in mid 30's. I don't have a way of heating it up and holding the higher temp. If it hasn't budged by tomorrow, I'm pitching champagne and being done with it.

If I ever use this yeast again it will be in the dead of summer when I can toss it in garage and not worry about it.

I ended up leaving my carboy in the garage in mid-October. It was in the mid-90s for me. Worked great, but I hear ya. Next time I do a saison, I'll likely use 3711 or some other strain.

 

[BadOman]

I'm using this strain right now, fermenting at about 72F. Same results as everyone else: I didn't get any bubbling in the airlock, but krausen was good initially and disappeared after about 48 hrs. At day 6 I syphoned it to a carboy for secondary and the gravity was reading about 1.036.

I added a pound of honey, boiled and diluted, into the secondary prior to syphoning the beer in. It's been going nuts for about 48 hours - much more vigorous than the primary. I had to change out my airlock because it filled up with beer. It also bubbled out of the top of the airlock, down the side of the carboy, and all over the floor.

This is my first time using honey. I knew yeast liked it, but I didn't expect to need a blowoff hose for the secondary. We'll see what (if anything) it does for the gravity in a few weeks. If it sticks again I can always move it into the hot garage...

 

[Rivenin]

Got mine down to 1.025 after a week of 90. Never again lol 3711

 

[rejart]

I just started a batch using 3724 this past weekend. The plan was to ferment out in my tool shed. I figured that with summer temps in GA it would be the perfect place. Unfortunately, we seem to be having a "cold" snap with highs in the low 80's so the shed is about the same temp as my house.

What I decided to do was strap a heating pad to the carboy and put a cardboard box over the whole thing to keep the heat in. This way I'm able to keep the temp about 85. It's still bubbling pretty well after 4 days so time will tell. Best I can do is keep the heat on. Hopefully the weather will heat up and I can move it to a hotter environment to help out. I'm in no real hurry though, since I have another carboy to do other brews.

 

[Silentbob]

I didn't add the champagne yeast... The creepy wine maker at the local shop talked me out of it. I ended up wrapping my fermenter in a thick blanket and sitting it on a heating pad. It's bubbling a bit more vigorously. It taste amazing! I can't wait for this to finish.

The brass tax is... I was looking to add a nice saison into my pipeline and really thought I was looking at maybe a 1 month turn around. It's my own damn fault that I didn't thoroughly research the yeast before I jumped in. My gear is actually better set up to ferment cold than hot... As always, I've learned more from a mistake than I would have had I nailed it.

If you use this yeast... Be prepared to fight for fermentation. Great flavor, but damn! Something more reliable would be preferable (reliable isn't the best word, but it's the first word that comes to mind).

 

[Jboggeye]

a lot of us here like to ferment with this yeast for a few days, (I like to start it low, and let it go to 75+ degrees on it's own), then pith an active 3711 (the French saison yeast)

all of the flavor of 3724 comes through, and you get great attenuation much quicker, along with a slightly more complex profile.

Also, make sure you have enough minerals in the water- this yeast tastes a little better with a decent amount of salts, and it will thank you for the extra calcium.
That's what I recommend to people using this yeast. it keeps the higher alcohols down- even though this yeast can handle the higher temps, it's better, IMHO, to keep it a little lower than 80+

 

[RiffMagnum]

Anyone ever just rack to secondary with this strain? I'm 3 weeks into mine with a gravity of 1.018. It's been in my garage with temps between 80-90 degrees. Just thought it might be wise to get it off the cake soon and let it finish up in it's own time. If i do this, should i bring it back inside and keep the temp in the 70's till it finishes?

 

[Jboggeye]

I've left mine in primary for 8 weeks without issues. getting it off the yeast won't help attenuation, and moving it someplace cooler now will not help either.

what was your starting gravity? Was it all-grain? (if so, what was your mash temp?)

3 weeks in and you're at 1.018, that sounds good to me. Just be patient.

 

[RiffMagnum]

I've left mine in primary for 8 weeks without issues. getting it off the yeast won't help attenuation, and moving it someplace cooler now will not help either.

what was your starting gravity? Was it all-grain? (if so, what was your mash temp?)

3 weeks in and you're at 1.018, that sounds good to me. Just be patient.

Extract. O.G. was 1.052

 

[Jboggeye]

Extract. O.G. was 1.052

I wouldn't worry at this point. swirl it up, leave it for 2 more weeks, and post back. looks to me like you are right on track.

this yeast tends to stall at around 1.03, you've past that point.

 

[RiffMagnum]

I wouldn't worry at this point. swirl it up, leave it for 2 more weeks, and post back. looks to me like you are right on track.

this yeast tends to stall at around 1.03, you've past that point.

Cool. I actually swirled it at week two. That's when i got the gravity reading of 1.018, so by now it might actually be lower. I just wanted it to finish really dry since i was a little under the "projected" O.G. of 1.060 that my recipe called for. I think it was because my LHBS subbed out several key ingredients.

 

[Jboggeye]

Cool. I actually swirled it at week two. That's when i got the gravity reading of 1.018, so by now it might actually be lower. I just wanted it to finish really dry since i was a little under the "projected" O.G. of 1.060 that my recipe called for. I think it was because my LHBS subbed out several key ingredients.

what was the recipe? I'm curious

 

[RiffMagnum]

what was the recipe? I'm curious

Saison Buffoon from the book Radical Brewing.

 

[RiffMagnum]

I've left mine in primary for 8 weeks without issues. getting it off the yeast won't help attenuation, and moving it someplace cooler now will not help either.

what was your starting gravity? Was it all-grain? (if so, what was your mash temp?)

3 weeks in and you're at 1.018, that sounds good to me. Just be patient.

I just remember reading someone say that leaving it on the cake for too long with those high temperatures can cause autolyse(sic) or possibly fusels. I'm not exactly sure what it was.

 

[BrewDoc22]

I know it has a different flavor profile, but I just brewed a Saison a few weeks ago using Wyeast 3711 (French Saison). Started at 1.038 and ended at 1.002 10 days later (fermentation temp about 73˚F). I was apprehensive about bottling so soon, but the gravity had been stable for 3 days, the beer was clear and no bubbles were coming out of the airlock. Taste is awesome!

For those of you planning on making Saisons in the future who are worried about attenuation problems and aren't picky about French vs. Belgian strains, this is a great (and apparently quite aggressive) yeast.

*Disclaimer: this was a saison made with 1.5 lb. honey, so that undoubtedly sped up the fermentation a bit.

 

[Jboggeye]

I just remember reading someone say that leaving it on the cake for too long with those high temperatures can cause autolyse(sic) or possibly fusels. I'm not exactly sure what it was.

you can leave this on the cake for 2+ months without autolysis, as long as you started out with healthy yeast and it's not at 85+ degrees for the whole time.
Autolysis is mostly a myth if you start with healthy yeast- ie make a starter

Fusels is when you ferment too hot- difficult to do with this yeast.

 

[Jboggeye]

I know it has a different flavor profile, but I just brewed a Saison a few weeks ago using Wyeast 3711 (French Saison). Started at 1.038 and ended at 1.002 10 days later (fermentation temp about 73˚F). I was apprehensive about bottling so soon, but the gravity had been stable for 3 days, the beer was clear and no bubbles were coming out of the airlock. Taste is awesome!

For those of you planning on making Saisons in the future who are worried about attenuation problems and aren't picky about French vs. Belgian strains, this is a great (and apparently quite aggressive) yeast.

*Disclaimer: this was a saison made with 1.5 lb. honey, so that undoubtedly sped up the fermentation a bit.

This is funny, there is a similar thread to this one about the 3711 yeast, where I posted that alot of us like to start with 3724 for 3 to 4 days, and then pitch a starter of 3711.
Doing this can get you a nice complex saison.

when I want a "smooth" saison, I got to the French yeast

 

[rejart]

I'm getting pretty excited about this one. I just took a gravity reading and it's down to 1.024 after only a week, so hopefully I've avoided the 1.030 sticking point. It's still bubbling steadily at 4 burps/min. I've been able to keep the temp between 85 and 90 the whole time, so I think that really helps.

BTW, the sample tasted amazing, totally worth the effort.

 

[JoeLindley]

I know it has a different flavor profile, but I just brewed a Saison a few weeks ago using Wyeast 3711 (French Saison). Started at 1.038 and ended at 1.002 10 days later (fermentation temp about 73˚F). I was apprehensive about bottling so soon, but the gravity had been stable for 3 days, the beer was clear and no bubbles were coming out of the airlock. Taste is awesome! For those of you planning on making Saisons in the future who are worried about attenuation problems and aren't picky about French vs. Belgian strains, this is a great (and apparently quite aggressive) yeast.

Personally I think going through the trouble with 3724 is worth it, even if it takes 3 weeks longer. IMHO, 3711 is good and it's a lot easier to get a very dry saison with it, but 3724 is more flavorful, especially for the orange and juicy fruit bubblegum.

 

[pohldogg]

Agree with Joe, the dupont strain has the best flavor and is worth the work. To me blaugies and thiriez taste like ordinary Belgians instead is saisons. Now if we they'd just sell the glazen toren strain I'd be over the moon. But it'd probably turn out to be t58.

 

[Jboggeye]

Agreed with the 2 above. 3724 is worth the trouble.

But I do love Thieriez...

 

[Rivenin]

Personally I think going through the trouble with 3724 is worth it, even if it takes 3 weeks longer. IMHO, 3711 is good and it's a lot easier to get a very dry saison with it, but 3724 is more flavorful, especially for the orange and juicy fruit bubblegum.

Agreed. If youre in a rush è711 but if you have patience 3724

 

[wormraper]

am tempted to try putting the 3724/565 saison that I'm just starting in a tub of water out in my shed since it can get so dang hot out there. According to my LHBS a 565/3724 can handle wild temp swings pretty easily so it should be ok. Any thoughts on that one? (temps can get as low as 81 at night and as high as 107 during the day ambient)

 

[Brew-boy]

I had not trouble with 3724, Pitched at 68f left it for two days and ramped it up slowly to 90f and it went from 1.057 to 1.005 in 2 weeks.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

it sounds like a lot of the problems with this might be due to poor oxygenation and low pitch rate

If you only cool wort to 80F the max oxygen you get with air is going to be less than if you cool it to 65 before pitching by a fair bit, the yeast might not reproduce enough to still be healthy when you get to 1.03 and struggle fermenting the rest

I'll update later but planning to try this. any comments?

1L stirred starter per 5gal, with yeast nutrient
cool to about 80F, aerate with a drill and paint stirrer,
pitch and keep temperature at 80F. (2 fermenting buckets sitting in a big tub that I'll add hot water to)
Test it at 3 weeks and increase temperature if its not done. at 4 or 5 weeks add a high ABV yeast if still not done.

 

[barrooze]

I cooled my 5.5 gallons to 62F, aerated as I normally do, which is excessive shaking, and pitched a 1.75L starter (from stirplate) with yeast nutrient. I had plenty of yeasties and oxygen. This strain is just notorious for stalling/slowing at some point.

 

[permo]

my first brew with this yeast had no issues. Pitched 4 liter starter into 10 gallons of 1.057 wort that was %10 sugar in the fermantables. Two weeks later I was at 1.005 , after five weeks 1.003 and in the kegs. What an amazing flavor this yeast has! For the record, I mashed at 149 degrees for 6 hours, that seemed to help the fermentability.

No I have a 1.075 black rye india style saison on that yeast cake, its taking off slower then I thought it would but the fermenter is only at 78 degrees. I gotta crank the temp up!